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[Crystal Winters]

Recently replaying Nier Replicant which features an intersex woman, and a homosexual young man. I don't remember hearing any complaints about either of them, and they are great characters.
I have yet to play a game made by a western dev (unless I am forgetting) that did not feel like they were written badly to feel like preaching some sort of message. I admit to being disappointed in this as a Bi woman.

I don't need to be preached at in games or other media because it just comes off as fighting some battle that does not need to be fought and thus alienating to both groups.

What can western game devs and others from other territories do to get it right without being like the purple mob among other places and groups that are infecting the entertainment industry? To make it feel natural and not annoying?

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

I dunno.... I do my best to altogether avoid.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

"representation" is a mistake

 

[thief183]

Dion (not sure if it written well) in Final Fantasy 16 was very well made imho.

 

[Danjin44]

For me it doesn’t matter their race or sex, all I want is great character design with good character development.

 

[Digital-Aftertaste]

Can be done right, just not by the usual brain rot writers that are assigned to the task. First off DEI and BS consulting firms should be avoided, then secondly would be to make an actual character with real universal flaws rather than just a pandering puppet.

 

[hououinkyouma00]

Forced diversity is the problem.

Are they gay because it makes sense in the story, or are they gay so that you can check off a box? Does it feel natural, or are you pandering? It's as simple as that really.

Same goes for skin color, religion, etc.

 

[Damigos]

Representation is wrong by its definition. It suggets that having black / gay / trans etc characters dont come naturally, but you are forced to put them in the game.
If it comes naturally, without stupid agendas, then its not representation. Its just a character

 

[Hypereides]

There's a right way. The way the current western devs (activists), American in particular, go about it is FUBAR though. Its really unappealing and poorly executed in many ways. There really seems to be an unspoken competency crisis in the western branch of the industry.

 

[Gaiff]

Write them like normal people. Bill in TLOU is a great example from what I recall. Besides their sexual orientation, there’s often no difference between a straight and gay person.

 

[LectureMaster]

The original Dragon Age games did it pretty right. Those characters felt like normal people, with their charms and struggles, and I definitely could resonant with their character development.

 

[hinch7]

A lot of western devs design whole characters around that as their personalities. Its obnoxious and annoying. Just write them as anyone else.

 

[Punished Miku]

Is there a way to do it right?

Pretty absurd question since the only way to answer no is to be fundamentally against their inclusion at all, ever. Surely that can't be the case.

 

[RCX]

Write good stories that feature interesting characters where their sexuality or portrayed gender is relevant to the plot.

Don't just shoehorn it in there under the excuse of "representation"

And also, most importantly just make sure the actual gameplay is good. It's impossible to give a shit about story if the game itself sucks.

 

[RagnarokIV]

Enough of this bender shite I say. We need a AA Rise of the Footsoldier game where we get to play as real men - bashing your rivals’ heads in unprovoked while shagging slags and snorting lines of coke.

 

[VulcanRaven]

I'm sure people will call it woke no matter they do.

 

[Soodanim]

I want to get in early before all of the drive by cliche keyword shouters and the shitposters.

I would say the intent is often evident in the writing. In DA:V for example it's clear to all (even before the dev interviews) what they wanted to do. The writing doesn't serve the story or the game, it serves the developers' personal goals. That was their intent. If you have to use a shoehorn to get your idea in, it's going to be awkward. Like a non-binary storyline in a fictional world. But it's also important to remember that in the case of DA:V the writing of the entire game suffered, it wasn't a string of 10/10 writing until Taash then back to 10/10 again. The game has forced LGBT storylines as well as forced modern language and ideals. It all seems very out of place.

Nier is a good example for you to use OP, because it's backstory and characterisation for Kaine that doesn't try to tell or teach you anything, it's just part of the story.

 

[RoboFu]

yeah just add it if its relevant. just like any straight character... and don't add any preachy or overly explained bs with it. Like in the real world no one gasps at gay people in public anymore. Its not a big deal. There really is no activism to preach for being gay anymore. which is why some people started adding more letters and tried to tack themselves onto any movement they could. they cannot stand not being "special " anymore.

 

[HerjansEagleFeeder]

Psychopathologies have been shown in video games for a long time, of course you can do that right. It really isn't any different than any other entertainment medium. But what does that have to do with representation? Do cannibals need to be represented in games, too?

 

[March Climber]

I've heard people use this game as a good example of doing things right. Though it did come out in 2015, which technically predates the time period when people on both ends became hyperaware and hypercritical of LGBT characters in games.

 

[solecon64]

Make the lesbians hot and the gay guys femboys. It's literally that simple.

Lesbians should be young and hot, because everyone knows that old lesbians are just crazy cat ladies that no man wants. And butch lesbians are just gross.

Gay guys should be femboys because everyone knows you're only gay if you're a bottom. And topping a manly dude would just be gross.

It's literally that simple.

 

[The Cockatrice]

Theres plenty of games with LGBT done right including Bioware games.

 

[bitbydeath]

Nobody cares in games like Baldur’s Gate 3 or Sims, because it’s not virtue signaling.

 

[Crayon]

There are several ways to do it right.

The most basic is similar to doing it right in real life. It's an incidental, often minor, aspect of a whole human. Everyone just try to be polite about it - in both directions - and more people will be comfortable all the time. But don't force it. As we can see, disaster awaits.

 

[Three]

Recently replaying Nier Replicant which features an intersex woman, and a homosexual young man. I don't remember hearing any complaints about either of them, and they are great characters.
I have yet to play a game made by a western dev (unless I am forgetting) that did not feel like they were written badly to feel like preaching some sort of message. I admit to being disappointed in this as a Bi woman.

I don't need to be preached at in games or other media because it just comes off as fighting some battle that does not need to be fought and thus alienating to both groups.

What can western game devs and others from other territories do to get it right without being like the purple mob among other places and groups that are infecting the entertainment industry? To make it feel natural and not annoying?

It's different things people hate which they lump together as collective outrage. You have a "good looking" character and homosexuals and intersex woman, sometimes you have "bad looking" with no homosexuals and they just get mixed up into outrage about LGBTQ when clearly the issue is that they didn't like the character in one and not the other. It's all very selective. Cyberpunk devs for example can be quoted saying they added "body types" and removed sexes for inclusivity. You can gender swap body types and you have a trans person in the game. Very little outrage about cyberpunk. It's other things people hate and they direct that hate discriminantly. "Doing it right" is simply "pray that you don't upset the mob somehow". There are those who do hate particular things indiscriminantly but those are often rarer to see.

 

[MrJangles]

Just stick hot scissoring lesbians in games if required and the rest can fuck off.

 

[LectureMaster]

Recently replaying Nier Replicant which features an intersex woman, and a homosexual young man. I don't remember hearing any complaints about either of them, and they are great characters.
I have yet to play a game made by a western dev (unless I am forgetting) that did not feel like they were written badly to feel like preaching some sort of message. I admit to being disappointed in this as a Bi woman.

I don't need to be preached at in games or other media because it just comes off as fighting some battle that does not need to be fought and thus alienating to both groups.

What can western game devs and others from other territories do to get it right without being like the purple mob among other places and groups that are infecting the entertainment industry? To make it feel natural and not annoying?

 

[Nostalgic Nightmare]

 

[peek]

Who caaaares, its so stupid. All of it.

 

[xVodevil]

Dion (not sure if it written well) in Final Fantasy 16 was very well made imho.

Good point, I've just finished the end game part since PC release and couldn't even remember it was there. Let's just say this is well done, not straight up "F* you"... in you face implementation in a story.

 

[March Climber]

The fact that I can't tell which community this is criticizing makes it that much funnier.

 

[flying_sq]

There is absolutely a correct way to do it. The same way you see them in real life. Don't make it an overt part of their identity. There are some who people who are "loud and proud" but most of the gay people I know, don't make it a big deal. The problem I see in gaming is that they make every not straight character basically an LGBT activist. I actually think it's offensive and does them a disservice. I have trans friends, is it obvious? Sure, but they don't sit there and talk about how oppressed they are, and how straight white guys like me are killing them or whatever. Just hang out, relax and BS like adults. I live in NYC btw, so it's a bastion of this stuff and you can tell who is going to be obnoxious about it.

 

[farmerboy]

It's a 2 sided problem. I can't trust devs to write those characters well and I can't trust the average bro gamer to accept them even when they are.

It's all getting rather tiresome.

 

[sloppyjoe_gamer]

How NOT to do it is to suddenly have two characters declare they're gay and tell us all about their marriage too out of nowhere when the entire game up until then had literally nothing about that or any over the top in your face LBGT456789123 shit at all.

It was a fun game, and none of that pandering was necessary up until that point, or then either. It felt like a "Oh hay fucker, look at us we're two dudes that are gay and we got married too!" Im talking about Helmut and Bob in Psychonauts 2.

It was awkward, and felt like it was totally put in there to fuck with people as opposed to anything else.

 

[TintoConCasera]

Yeah, with subtlety.

Don't make their sexual orientation their whole personality and don't make them point out their sexual orientation in a cringe or forced way.

Bioware used to do it right, with ME3 being a good example imo. Today? Not so much.

 

[Kacho]

Generally, LGBT representation in media often feels forced, especially in today's landscape. This forced inclusion had done more harm than good, leading to skepticism about the intentions behind it whenever LGBT characters appear in games. Perhaps we need a cool off period... say, 10 years before such representation is no longer met with immediate backlash.

 

[simpatico]

Is there a way to do it right​

No

are western devs forever going to suck at it?​

Yes

Do people who dislike mustard need representation? A guy who insists on having mushrooms on his pizza perhaps? Why do these people need constant external validation? I like older broads on the chubby side. Where does the Diablo IV character creator represent me? Will Remedy find a way to shoehorn me into a story?

 

[EMR]

Forced diversity is the problem.

Are they gay because it makes sense in the story, or are they gay so that you can check off a box? Does it feel natural, or are you pandering? It's as simple as that really.

Same goes for skin color, religion, etc.

Simple as fuck.

 

[Zathalus]

Start with a compelling and well written character. If sexuality or marriage must be bought up, then handle it like you would with a straight character. Problem solved.

 

[cireza]

Thinking it has to be done is the problem to begin with. It doesn't have to be put in a game if it is irrelevant.

 

[Holammer]

Sir Hammerlock in BL2 is gay. It's mentioned in passing in a natural way at least twice I think, blink and you'll miss it. Plenty of characters have an LGBT angle. I believe one of the audio logs mention Tiny Tina had two mommies.
It was subtle and that's how you do it.

In the Pre-Sequel there's a questline with the man and he can't shut up about his boyfriend and how gay he is. Janey Springs (the first character you meet) makes sure you're very aware of how much of a lesbian she is before you finish her quests. There's more stuff in there, but the subtlety was lost.

 

[Herbspiceguy]

Does sexual preference need to be represented at all or is it a private matter?

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Japan seems to do it well. Been that way for decades, i.e Sailor Moon, Revolutionary Girl Utena, etc.

The trick is to write them like normal people instead of mouthpieces for far-left Marxists propaganda. Easy to avoid if you aren't corrupted by ideology.

Does sexuality need to be represented at all or is it a private matter?

So you want to go full '90s puritan Christian and ban everything that isn't covered by a cloth? Rewind everything to 1992?

 

[YCoCg]

 

[alabtrosMyster]

They do it out of hate.

Remove the whole "woke/DEI/bridge" agenda, especially the related job positions as sensitivity experts, and other inclusivity focused consultants. They make people focus on their group differences, then they complain that people are seeing their colleagues through that lense.

Diversity should be something that has no barrier, but not a goal in and of itself.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

 

[f~N_CH_1:3:3:3_SushiBoat]

They can start by treating them as normal, every day people, and not some fucking check box characteure.

 

[The Cockatrice]

It's mentioned in passing in a natural way at least twice I think,

It's more than just passing as there is an entire dlc in regards to him and his lover, but yes, it's done quite right.

 

[Kamina]

I usually aways compare such situations in games to what i would feel real life.
If someone randomly states that they are gay or trans, or if they behave in an obnoxious or condescending way about it then I consider it unnatural, regardless of it it is real or in a game. Also it needs to fit to the game / story.
If i see a character bio in a game that states that character x is homosexual, but any interaction with the character is otherwise completely notmal, then i couldn’t care less.

 

[Crayon]

Does sexual preference need to be represented at all or is it a private matter?

Mostly nobody's business, but it comes up.

It's as simple as "hi I'm Mike and this is my husband Bill".

There's still people who think that's"rubbing it in their face", which is beyond screwed up when you think about it.