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[swaffles23]

Dion (not sure if it written well) in Final Fantasy 16 was very well made imho.

i thought Dion was the best character in the game

 

[ExtendEmbraceExtinguish]

Just have the president’s daughter go in for a kiss with Leon. Have him refuse, then say he says I’m gay.

Takes away from nothing and people won’t care.

Side note: a game like alpha protocol could use the option to say I’m gay for mission reasons. Someone needs to make a spy-action simulator.

 

[ExtendEmbraceExtinguish]

No one cares who you sleep with. Stop trying to act like you’re special. You’re not.

Calibrations?!!

 

[Doomtrain]

Of course there's a good way to do it. Being LGBT is a facet of the human condition, and thus it's a valuable thing to explore and a valid topic that interesting stories can be written about.

The issue isn't LGBT characters. The issue is preaching. Preaching equals bad writing. It just so happens that right now, the zeitgeist is to preach about progressive topics.

 

[ResilientBanana]

I mean, do we actually need anyone to be represented? Just make a fun fucking game. Very rarely did a character need a love interest back in the day.

 

[justiceiro]

When the first thing I hear about your game is how it appeals to "modern audience", that's when I know I should avoid. Dark souls has lot of characters that have homosexuality implied, but this is jot what this game is about. The most talked about thing in Celeste is it's challenging platform, but seems there is transexual stuff involved.

It should be like that: LGBT are ones that can see the representivity, because it's for them to see, not for everyone to see and applaud the developer for doing it.

 

[FunkMiller]

Of course there's a way to do it right. Give us compelling, believable characters, in compelling, believable stories, where the person's sexuality is only a factor if it relates to the story being told.

The same way that hetrosexuality is only represented when that is important to the story and the characterisation.

The homophobes can get fucked if they still object at that point.

 

[Guilty_AI]

The very concept of representation is dumb to begin with. Entertainment media are products of culture, not tools meant to change it.

Sure, one could say they do have a feedback effect, but the moment you design them for the sake of taking advantage of that influence is the moment your art becomes a propaganda piece.

 

[AJUMP23]

Nobody cared about it in the original mass effect that your character could romance anyone.

People don’t want forced lectureing characters.

 

[Crystal Winters]

I dunno.... I do my best to altogether avoid.

That's fair. It is not something that needs or should be forced.

 

[Crystal Winters]

Can be done right, just not by the usual brain rot writers that are assigned to the task. First off DEI and BS consulting firms should be avoided, then secondly would be to make an actual character with real universal flaws rather than just a pandering puppet.

I agree. I hate checkmark quotas and preachy bullshit. I don't have to be represented at all times just because I am part of a minority.

 

[Crystal Winters]

Write them like normal people. Bill in TLOU is a great example from what I recall. Besides their sexual orientation, there’s often no difference between a straight and gay person.

Bill is fucking awesome.

 

[Crystal Winters]

The original Dragon Age games did it pretty right. Those characters felt like normal people, with their charms and struggles, and I definitely could resonant with their character development.

man, I forgot about that game due to the last two games being such disappointments. I played through the first three games in the series about a year or two ago for the first time and noticed diminishing returns with each new entry.

 

[Crystal Winters]

Psychopathologies have been shown in video games for a long time, of course you can do that right. It really isn't any different than any other entertainment medium. But what does that have to do with representation? Do cannibals need to be represented in games, too?

Wasn't there a group of cannibals in TLOU? They definitely got the point across.

 

[Woggleman]

Judy in Cyberpunk 2077 is a good example.

 

[Crystal Winters]

What game is this?

 

[Crystal Winters]

About Catherine. I don't like how they went about it in that games Full Body version. Rin was very preachy at one point in the game and other than that, the character can be very easily ignored to the point that the character just leaves the story without any real notice. I always felt that Rin should have just been honest up front about what they were about instead of having the bombshell dropped on him a 3rd of the way through. I felt that Erica was a much more interesting character and that character's backstory hints at why she has not told Toby yet.

 

[Kumomeme]

right or wrong way to do it?

there is neither

just stop put any lgbt woke representation in it.

 

[Crystal Winters]

Does sexual preference need to be represented at all or is it a private matter?

I don't like it being forced or in game preachy, no. I gain nothing by being preached at as if it were an agenda checkbox. I just want some in games that dont have to wear it on their sleeves all the time and give us lines like "bigot sandwiches" from Ellie in TLOU2

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

Disagree with you,the transexual was only put in to go with the whole "every show on netflix has to have a lgbt/dei representation and we make more money by doing this than if we dont"

Probably, but still better executed than in most cases and a bold move considering the show is Korean.

What game is this?

Honkai Star Rail.

 

[Crystal Winters]

Is there a way to do it right​

No

are western devs forever going to suck at it?​

Yes

Do people who dislike mustard need representation? A guy who insists on having mushrooms on his pizza perhaps? Why do these people need constant external validation? I like older broads on the chubby side. Where does the Diablo IV character creator represent me? Will Remedy find a way to shoehorn me into a story?

I hope I have not come off the wrong way in this topic and annoyed you as a result. I tried to better explain myself in other replies further down if that matters.

 

[Crystal Winters]

Probably, but still better executed than in most cases and a bold move considering the show is Korean.


Honkai Star Rail.

Holy shit. That was awesome. Been sitting on that game for too long.

 

[Moneal]

Sure there have been many lgbt characters in games that people didn't have a problem with. Funny enough the game that must not be named by the LGBGT cartel(Hogwarts Legacy) has one of the most diverse casts, including a prominent Trans character. I found all the diverse characters in it well done.

 

[Crystal Winters]

Solid Snake is done perfectly.

I did not know that he was. Interesting.

 

[Crystal Winters]

Dont take this the wrong way bit i dont think it needs representation, I don't care if the characters in a game are straight,bi,gay whatever.what a fictional character made on a computer programs sexual orientation is plays no part in making a game fun or interesting.

It's unnecessary, whether I'm jumping on shells in mario or stealth taking down a soldier in mgs not once does it cross my mind what mario or snake do in their sex life's.

No worries, you are good.

 

[bundylove]

I dont play games for sexual preferences and i dont care.

I play games to have fun.

This is just some new found bullshit thats dying anyways

 

[violence]

The idea of representation is just a distraction for the artist. Imagine telling this bullshit to Picasso as if we know better than him?

“Come on man you’re kind of using a lot of blue here. How about representing some other colors?” ….

 

[Crystal Winters]

BG3?

I admit I have not gotten very far into that game yet.

 

[CityHunter1981]

I think representation is important, but we are at a point where there is over representation, meaning there are unrealistic amounts of people from minority groups.

I get that the developers are scared of some backlash and are forcefully include as much diversity as possible trying to prove that they support representation and diversity, but as a result nothing feels natural, but just forced and in your face.

 

[Crystal Winters]

Natural like less than .00001% of the global population? Like actual statistical representation?

No, I mean natural as in not pretentious and annoying during the games story or scenes. It can come up, but not in a ham fisted "love is love you bigot" kind of way. It is not how I act in real life, and I expect better in my games if it is to be there.

 

[Crystal Winters]

This is the right angle, I think. If you are giving traits to a character just to showcase them it's never going to feel natural because underlining a trait is the goal.

I know this will probably be an unpopular opinion but I think Overwatch does this pretty well when it comes to the game itself. All characters feel like tridimensional people and they are not flashing out minority status, it feels more like flair. When it comes to gender or sexual stuff it's not preachy and in your face like other games.

Outside of the game (stories, comics and such) there is an overt pandering approach so as an IP as a whole OW is not a good example but the game itself does it well without bending over backwards to please someone or antagonizing the user by preaching. That's saying something for a game with a character that goes by they/them...

Hmm. I do not know. it was fine with Tracer because they were more upfront about it. Now it just seems that whenever people increase their bitching about the game, they reveal that another character was gay and then deflect with the whole "it was always there you bigots!" when people point it out.

 

[Crayon]

I did not know that he was. Interesting.

I don't know if it's official lol. But if it was, it's done perfectly.

 

[TGO]

When they make a character you're not actually sure or or genuinely think they maybe they are
Same with race, you make a bad ass character who just happens to be whatever race and doesn't go on about it.
That's when it's done right. Unless they're flaming gay it shouldn't be spelt out for you.
And a characters back storyline shouldn't be about their race or sexuality.
Also having 4/5 characters that are gay and don't know eachother from the get go and just cross path's in a story is highly unlikely.
Take the Arrow Verse cross over for example, CW took it their diversity shit seriously
That Barry Alan & Oliver were the only ones that wasn't ticking a box.
Even Supergirl had to use her X-ray vision to check out Batwoman during a world crisis...
That's when it's just becomes a parody.

 

[Hawk The Slayer]

Fallout New Vegas
Goodie Little Two Shoes

There's obviously more out there but these are the ones I remember right off the bat as the games I play are either mostly non LGBT or it doesn't focus on romance/relationships.

 

[Larxia]

I don't know, I think that as long as it's made for "representation", it will always be bad.

On top of that, I think that the radical left actually ruined "representation", and it will never be like before anymore, it's over.

You mentionned Nier Replicant, and that no one complained, that's true, however if it was a brand new game releasing today, people would complain for sure.
I don't blame it on the people complaining though, I blame it on the people who kept trying to push representation down our throat for years. This led to people now not being able to stand these concepts anymore, because of being tired of it and never being sure if something was done naturally or if it was something to check on an agenda list.

I see this in myself all the time nowadays. I used to just don't care about topics like that, wether it was there or not, I didn't think much about it. Now though? I can't keep myself from thinking that something might be "woke" if it includes such stuff, I learned to be cautious when media include these concepts, and therefore it's never as natural as it used to be.

The people always pushing for representation did the opposite of what they were trying to do. They turned something that was part of the daily life, into something that now stands out and feels different. Well done, good job.

Maybe it will go back to the way it was, feeling like something more natural and not something political, in many years from now, if things start to cool down now. I think it will take a long time and some generations though.

 

[Crystal Winters]

I don't know, I think that as long as it's made for "representation", it will always be bad.

On top of that, I think that the radical left actually ruined "representation", and it will never be like before anymore, it's over.

You mentionned Nier Replicant, and that no one complained, that's true, however if it was a brand new game releasing today, people would complain for sure.
I don't blame it on the people complaining though, I blame it on the people who kept trying to push representation down our throat for years. This led to people now not being able to stand these concepts anymore, because of being tired of it and never being sure if something was done naturally or if it was something to check on an agenda list.

I see this in myself all the time nowadays. I used to just don't care about topics like that, wether it was there or not, I didn't think much about it. Now though? I can't keep myself from thinking that something might be "woke" if it includes such stuff, I learned to be cautious when media include these concepts, and therefore it's never as natural as it used to be.

The people always pushing for representation did the opposite of what they were trying to do. They turned something that was part of the daily life, into something that now stands out and feels different. Well done, good job.

Maybe it will go back to the way it was, feeling like something more natural and not something political, in many years from now, if things start to cool down now. I think it will take a long time and some generations though.

I respect that. I fear I may have misrepresented my own stance in that topic title though because in typical internet fashion, there are several people in her who will either not read past my topic title and reply negatively anyway, or will read the body as well, but still choose to ignore it in their own response. Most people in here have been very fair though, which I very mich appreciate.

 

[Larxia]

I respect that. I fear I may have misrepresented my own stance in that topic title though because in typical internet fashion, there are several people in her who will either not read past my topic title and reply negatively anyway, or will read the body as well, but still choose to ignore it in their own response. Most people in here have been very fair though, which I very mich appreciate.

I read your post, I just don't think that studios can do much about it now, because of how damaged this issue is in our current days, that's what I was trying to say in my message.
No matter how they do it, it will be more complicated for people to accept "representation" now than it was before, because people are more aware of the potential political ideas behind that.

I think the only way to MAYBE get it right, is to... well obviously do it well (not make it feel forced, not doing it for any box to check or agenda), and being a studio that people know they can trust on this. If it's a studio that's used to communicate really well, be transparent about things, well appreciated by everyone, then maybe people would be more willing to accept some stuff because they know it wasn't included for the wrong reasons. If it's a studio that's very left leaning with lot of political messages all the time, then it will always lead to negative reception from people aware of that.

But I really think it's important to be aware of what changed in the recent years with all this and the current climate. Someone mentionned Life Is Strange in the first page. I really liked this game when it came out, and never thought twice about possible "woke" stuff inside of this, it was a concept I didn't even know back then lol.
If the exact same game came out today though, I'm not sure I would have welcomed it with such open arms, I would have been somewhat cautious, because of what I'm used to now. I'm not saying that's the good behaviour, because obviously I enjoyed this game, but the recent years have made some things more complicated.

The best way for me to not be bothered by "representation", is when I watch or play something before let's say 2016 or so. Before DEI and all that stuff became crazy. Because I know it's products that were made in a more natural way, before it all got corrupted.

 

[MafiaMurderBag]

Write them like normal people. Bill in TLOU is a great example from what I recall. Besides their sexual orientation, there’s often no difference between a straight and gay person.

Well said. Often times in western games, a characters gender or orientation has to be so on the nose especially when it's irrelevant to the gameplay or storey. That's what makes players resent it.

it's be like - The progtanist is trapped under some rubble & the place is gonna blow, mysterious character not introduced spawns & says "I'm Stevie, I'm gonna save you BECAUSE IT'S SOOO GREAT BEING GAYYY!"

I'm TLOU, it's very easy to miss the cry he's Gay, because he's not stereotypical nor did his character make it his entire personality trait.

 

[El Muerto]

Representation should exist. But 5% of the US population consider themselves as LGBT. If big AAA games are trying to cater to that 5% then they will obviously fail because the majority will think the game isnt for them. Baldurs Gate 3 was good with representation. Make your person whoever you want and fuck whoever you want. But making a character's personality solely based on their sexuality, especially in a single player game is super annoying.

 

[Z O N E]

It's actually very easy and it's why developers are getting called out for it nowadays.

Stop shining a spotlight on the diversity, because the moment you do, it becomes forced diversity. You can have diversity, without making it the main point of selling your game.

When developers purposely bring up "such a diverse cast" "our studio is made up of people from all backgrounds to create a diverse experience" "in the game we have such a diverse cast to be able to represent everyone".

The moment you create a game that is catered to everyone because of diversity, it's not a game anymore, but a checklist.

Also, STOP TRYING TO MAKE A GAME FOR EVERYONE, it doesn't work.

 

[Gamer_By_Proxy]

** takes Nier Replicant off Steam wishlist**

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

Just don't virtue signal or pander to the player. Make the character as normal as possible without taunting people with "pride" etc. Just be a regular, non-activist protagonist who is confident in who they are without being a jackass about it. I think most folks wouldn't mind that.

 

[poodaddy]

Enough of this bender shite I say. We need a AA Rise of the Footsoldier game where we get to play as real men - bashing your rivals’ heads in unprovoked while shagging slags and snorting lines of coke.

 

[Beechos]

Now that I think of it why is there no outrage over japanese representation of sexy women/famboyant males/ethnic characters.

 

[TheDarkPhantom]

Here is a novel idea: don't put it in at all. To be clear, I don't give a flying fuck about a character's sexuality either way so unless it's absolutely important to the narrative/development of the character *I don't need to know*. The truth is there is a greater agenda at play and it only really became a *thing* in the past few years.

 

[Beechos]

The game gone home if i remember correctly did a good job with this.

 

[Lillie]

nope it shouldn't be done

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

Now that I think of it why is there no outrage over japanese representation of sexy women/famboyant males/ethnic characters.

Because that's just their personalities and who they are, and they aren't pushing an agenda or preaching/fence building with their politics.

 

[Moriarty1889]

It’s all western devs care about and is forced into everything they make. Lots of people are sick of it being shoved down their throats 24/7.

 

[InterMusketeer]

If devs put it in games or other media just to increase diversity or even to normalize it or to represent real communities, that's just tokenism spawned from political views. If it plays a significant role within the story, it will turn off a part of the audience who has no interest in exploring those subjects.

Frankly, I think the subject has little to no place in mainstream titles, but that it can be explored in specifically crafted titles and franchises.