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[TommyCronin6969]

Make all the gay and whatever the fuck they wanna be the villians and bad guys in them games then it'll be alright.

 

[Crayon]

Solid Snake is done perfectly.

 

[Lord Panda]

My main issue is that they put another group down in order to lift up another.

 

[Hyet]

"representation" is a mistake

This is the right angle, I think. If you are giving traits to a character just to showcase them it's never going to feel natural because underlining a trait is the goal.

I know this will probably be an unpopular opinion but I think Overwatch does this pretty well when it comes to the game itself. All characters feel like tridimensional people and they are not flashing out minority status, it feels more like flair. When it comes to gender or sexual stuff it's not preachy and in your face like other games.

Outside of the game (stories, comics and such) there is an overt pandering approach so as an IP as a whole OW is not a good example but the game itself does it well without bending over backwards to please someone or antagonizing the user by preaching. That's saying something for a game with a character that goes by they/them...

 

[Soodanim]

Make all the gay and whatever the fuck they wanna be the villians and bad guys in them games then it'll be alright.

I want to see this, it will be refreshing to see something so different

 

[Hunter 99]

Dont take this the wrong way bit i dont think it needs representation, I don't care if the characters in a game are straight,bi,gay whatever.what a fictional character made on a computer programs sexual orientation is plays no part in making a game fun or interesting.

It's unnecessary, whether I'm jumping on shells in mario or stealth taking down a soldier in mgs not once does it cross my mind what mario or snake do in their sex life's.

 

[xpresstuning]

Yes. Simply create the character as a representation via typical traits. Not as a mouth-piece for an ideology. Not as a tool to push the creator's ideology.

 

[Jsisto]

Sylvando from DQ11 is probably one of the best gay characters i've ever seen. Probably one of the most flamboyantly, in your face gay characters I've ever seen, but him being gay was more of a subtext in the storyline. They didn't beat you over the head about how it was okay that he was gay. You liked him because he was a fun, compassionate, likable character that stood on his own merits and being gay wasn't his sole character trait. They really did a fantastic job.

 

[Donald mac Ronald]

Enough of this bender shite I say. We need a AA Rise of the Footsoldier game where we get to play as real men - bashing your rivals’ heads in unprovoked while shagging slags and snorting lines of coke.

 

[Kings Field]

Go watch season 2 of Squid Games. The tranny character is done right. First time I've ever not cringed at that shit in entertainment.

 

[Fbh]

- Make well written, likable and/or interesting and/or cool characters for whom being LGBT is just one out of many defining features instead of the single most important element about them that you will constantly mention and focus on.

- Write them in a way that feels coherent with the setting of your game. Throwing around modern day terms like "transgender" and "nonbinary" and having characters talk about pronouns (looking at you Dragon Age) in a medieval fantasy setting just feels forced and out of place.

 

[Meicyn]

I want to see this, it will be refreshing to see something so different

Gortash in Baldur’s Gate 3 is bisexual. So is Col Volgin in Metal Gear Solid 3.

There are more examples, but it’s already been done.

 

[Hunter 99]

Go watch season 2 of Squid Games. The tranny character is done right. First time I've ever not cringed at that shit in entertainment.

Disagree with you,the transexual was only put in to go with the whole "every show on netflix has to have a lgbt/dei representation and we make more money by doing this than if we dont"

 

[midasmulligan]

Recently replaying Nier Replicant which features an intersex woman, and a homosexual young man. I don't remember hearing any complaints about either of them, and they are great characters.
I have yet to play a game made by a western dev (unless I am forgetting) that did not feel like they were written badly to feel like preaching some sort of message. I admit to being disappointed in this as a Bi woman.

I don't need to be preached at in games or other media because it just comes off as fighting some battle that does not need to be fought and thus alienating to both groups.

What can western game devs and others from other territories do to get it right without being like the purple mob among other places and groups that are infecting the entertainment industry? To make it feel natural and not annoying?

Natural like less than .00001% of the global population? Like actual statistical representation?

 

[DirtInUrEye]

Just look up Danny La Rue and Julian Clary and copy that. Job's a good 'un.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Not having political stuff is the best answer. Most games dont require it at all.

But if a game studio has to jam it in because they got that giant urge to purge their politics into a game to make themselves feel better and not go into depression mode, then do it in a chill way.

- Dont do it for games that have zero sexuality to do with gaming (at some point a dev will make a Tetris knock off and have pronouns)
- Not jammed in someone's face
- No stupid social media arguments with gamers
- No lectures, bigot sandwiches, push ups or preaching

You dont see games with straight couples parading around giving lessons on being straight, or purposely doing anti-gay rhetoric to teach LBGT a lesson (similar to straight people getting lectured).

At least LOU has LGTB characters in a down to earth way that fits the setting. I dont think you get flamboyant stereotyped rainbow coloured Mrs. Freeze character skins or Dustborny cancel culture lessons.

There's a right way to do things and also a wrong way.

 

[Itchy Tickles]

It's quite easy, don't have self-titled victims who claim to be writers and put no effort in. Don't make a character that's your social media posts. You can celebrate one thing and not have it put something else down at the same time. Ego and self importance when trying to make something widely relatable just doesn't work. Crying about victimisation while using hate speech to attack some other group is ignorance and will never get my support.

Having a gay character isn't an issue, but over coddled writers and developers have no creativity (or so it seems) outside of their echo chambers, so it just feels like a fight they are making up and labeling everyone else the enemy. Hard to like or care about something that apparently hates you for no reason.

 

[ANIMAL1975]

What i would like to know is, why this so called "minorities Defenders" want to force on you every wird woke shit invented in the last years by this purple/blue hair wirdows (transcender, nogender, bluegender), but completely ignore/discriminate the ancestral zoophily sexual orientation.

 

[strike670]

I hate when people use the term "forced diversity." A product is either diverse or it isn't. Just tell the truth and admit you hate diversity. At least that would be honest.

Anything that comes across as pandering is generally viewed as insulting, so just write good stories and create compelling and interesting characters.

 

[AGRacing]

I guess a byproduct of creating a character who makes such a giant fucking deal out of their sexual or gender identity and then surrounding them with pandering characters as well is that the whole cast ends up unlikable. Who knew?

 

[Omnipunctual Godot]

People should make the stories they want to make. The market will decide their success.

The problem is that representation and DEI have been used as a shield and cudgel against critics and gamers for the last 10 years, and most people are now naturally skeptical or even hostile towards games featuring DEI signifiers for that reason.

For a while, normal people, the vast majority of the gaming market, were convinced by Western activists that everything they liked was problematic and needed to be changed. And the changes made everything worse. Senior-level positions were often created for or usurped by people who had no business in the industry, and a climate of fear and toxic positivity kept them there. No one wants to ever go back to that.

 

[Kataploom]

Sylvia-neesama in Dragon Quest 11 is my second favorite character of the whole game, of course you can do it right, you just have to use all the woke examples as bad examples and do the actual opposite

 

[Griffon]

Until 6 years ago, gender dysphoria (gender identity disorder) was rightfully considered a mental illness by the WHO.
But it's been changed by activists. And now instead of trying to help those people, activists are enabling delusions and pushing them toward horrific permanent procedures. Leading to those poor people living in a permanent hellish nightmare of pain.

LGBs are fine, T and other letters shouldn't be a part of that same group.
Regarding LGB representation, just don't push it in our faces with stereotypical trash. Nobody cares what every single fantasy character likes to fuck.

 

[LordCBH]

Just don’t make it THE defining personality trait of the character. Ellie was fine in TLOU, for instance, because her sexuality wasn’t her character. It was just a piece of it.

 

[KimDongHwan]

A lot of western devs design whole characters around that as their personalities. Its obnoxious and annoying. Just write them as anyone else.

Don't want to get too deep into this, but I feel the reason is that many of the devs are LGBTQ themselves, of the modern type which means they did the same thing, base their entire personality around their genitalia taste, so not creating the characters like that but instead make them normal humans would be accepting that they themselves took a wrong path in life.

I could be totally wrong though haha

 

[Closer]

Of course there's a away to do it right. If there's a way to do it wrong, it's only natural.

 

[Sept Terrion Of Nothing]

Dion (not sure if it written well) in Final Fantasy 16 was very well made imho.

Yes because they didn't put Dion's sexual affinity in front of his character. That is why whenever someone mentions Dion, the first thing comes to my mind his honest character and other traits.

Him being a gay didn't bother me one tiny bit at all.

 

[MAX PAYMENT]

I hate when people use the term "forced diversity." A product is either diverse or it isn't. Just tell the truth and admit you hate diversity. At least that would be honest.

Anything that comes across as pandering is generally viewed as insulting, so just write good stories and create compelling and interesting characters.

I imagine the amount of people out there that genuinely actively dislike diversity is extremely small. It's an agenda to pretend it's commonplace.

 

[Zacfoldor]

Unless you are actually showing penetration in your content, it’s probably best to bring it up as little as possible.

I won’t pay for social programming made for the unintelligent. Even if you have the best intentions, loony wannabe brainwashers have poisoned that well long ago.

 

[deathstardom]

Until 6 years ago, gender dysphoria (gender identity disorder) was rightfully considered a mental illness by the WHO.
But it's been changed by activists. And now instead of trying to help those people, activists are enabling delusions and pushing them toward horrific permanent procedures. Leading to those poor people living in a permanent hellish nightmare of pain.

LGBs are fine, T and other letters shouldn't be a part of that same group.
Regarding LGB representation, just don't push it in our faces with stereotypical trash. Nobody cares what every single fantasy character likes to fuck.

Yup. Toxic positivity

 

[Kings Field]

Disagree with you,the transexual was only put in to go with the whole "every show on netflix has to have a lgbt/dei representation and we make more money by doing this than if we dont"

Still didn't mind the character. Much better than a lot of the slop on Netflix but I definitely see where you're coming from.

 

[Hunter 99]

I agree with you,its all i see now with every show or movie that is being released.
Iwas defo handled in a more realistic way in sg season 2 with other characters feeling uncomfortable around him ect.

 

[Edellus]

I think the way to go about it is to not make it an "LGBT" thing at all in the first place. For instance, when I know a man and a woman are a couple, I don't think "so they're straight". They're just a couple, they fancy each other and they happen to be of the opposite sex. So don't make an "LGBT" character, but a character with many other interesting characteristics who fancies someone who happens to be of the same sex. Make it descriptive and not prescriptive. So basically, as far away from the modern "LGBT" labels and political prejudices and stereotypes. So, basically, not a token.

There are plenty of examples of doing it right, where it doesn't come off as preachy. From the top of my mind:

- Dion (FFXVI)
- Ellie, Bill, Dina (The Last of Us)
- Oberyn Martel (Game of Thrones)
- Aloy (Horizon)

I don't know what label any of those characters are. Dion could be gay, bi, straight but gay only for that dude whose name I forgot. It doesn't matter. What matters is that Dion is a cool and noble dude. That is what I think is the normal, natural and organic way to think of people in fiction and in the real world.

 

[Stuart360]

Yes, dont do it at all.

 

[stn]

To me, any minority and/or gay character should just be treated as a normal character instead of some token checklist quota.

 

[YOU PC BRO?!]

Representation in this context is in and of itself a fallacy. I mean, couldn’t anyone be gay/straight/bi? How would you even know? What we are discussing here is simple pandering. Ambiguity has always been the most respectful approach to this issue. In current day, representation is handled in such a jarring, overt and on the nose manner. There is never an ounce of tact or delicacy to be found. That’s why it is mostly perceived as a blatantly obvious and contemptible attempt at virtue signalling. For example, playing a ww2 game and half the combatants are female. Or having every second character announced as gay or trans in some end of humanity, post apocalyptic setting. It’s simply not realistic, implausible and clearly exists as a box ticking exercise.

When things are left ambiguous then it’s character, not identity at the forefront.

 

[Arsic]

BG3?

 

[nial]

Make the lesbians hot and the gay guys femboys. It's literally that simple.

Lesbians should be young and hot, because everyone knows that old lesbians are just crazy cat ladies that no man wants. And butch lesbians are just gross.

Gay guys should be femboys because everyone knows you're only gay if you're a bottom. And topping a manly dude would just be gross.

It's literally that simple.

In the 'worst posts of NeoGAF' hall this goes.

 

[AmuroChan]

Yes, games have successfully been able to do it for decades. When you barely notice it, that's when you know the game did it right. It shouldn't be front and center, preachy, and so in your face that it becomes the conversation surrounding the game.

Same thing for movies. Movies from decades ago have starred strong female characters and nobody had any problems with it. Ripley and Sarah Connors are beloved characters that everyone cheered for.

So yes, it can absolutely be done by western devs because there are a million western games that have already successfully accomplished this in years past.

 

[Geometric-Crusher]

diversity is necessary

 

[WoJ]

Cortez in Mass Effect 3 is a perfectly fine example. Many others in this thread. Make them normal people and don't use your game to lecture on gender politics.

 

[Boglin]

In the 'worst posts of NeoGAF' hall this goes.

Your plebian tastes disgust me.

 

[Chuck Berry]

What matters is that Dion is a cool and noble dude. That is what I think is the normal, natural and organic way to think of people in fiction and in the real world.

That’s the normal way of thinking. And Dion is fucking cool as shit.

 

[ReBurn]

The reason it usually feels forced or ham fisted is because video game writers tend to shoehorn it into places where it doesn't belong. If it's some sort of life or dating sim, or an RPG where building relationships matters, then representation of sexual or gender identity may be important. When it's an action game where the immediate focus is to try to save the world from the apocalypse to come then whether someone is straight or not really doesn't matter in the big picture.

 

[Mortisfacio]

I think Claire in CyberPunk (trans bartender) is one of the best LGBT representations. Just a normal character and likable and other than a sticker on her car and a single line of dialogue, her being trans has nothing to do with her character and side quests.

If it was a BioWare game we'd have spent 30+ minutes learning about her pronouns and how she just wants to be her authentic self.

 

[thegame983]

Forced DEI just shows that you're not taking the game/movie/whatever that you are making seriously. And if you're not going to, why should I?

 

[EN250]

you know, in the real world there is gay people that don't act like a caricature of their sexual preference? Well, that's your answer, no one would care if the character is well constructed and happens to be gay, tbf tho, it'd be nice if sexual preference had nothing to do with the game, where nothing has to do with that, gay or straight

 

[Rush2112]

No one cares who you sleep with. Stop trying to act like you’re special. You’re not.

 

[Wildebeest]

Gaming should just go back to making all the mascot characters hot anthropomorphic animals. There is no way that could turn weird or uncomfortable for people.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

That garbage needs to stay out of games. Make a specific LGTBBQ sim. Don't force DEI crap down our throats.