Isn't this it?
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Life is Strange | Spoiler Thread
- Thread starter Dr. Buni
- Start date
Isn't this it?
GGNKovalski
Member
I guess so.
A Fish Aficionado
I am going to make it through this year if it kills me
These are absolutely must listens
Foals - Total Life Forever
Angus and Julia Stone - Down the Way
Foals - Total Life Forever
Angus and Julia Stone - Down the Way
GGNKovalski
Member
These are absolutely must listens
Foals - Total Life Forever
Angus and Julia Stone - Down the Way
Ever since this last ep. I've been listening to a lot of Foals. They are great.
That's a funny way to spell "best ending".
AlphaStriker
Member
I currently have Mt Washington stuck in my head.
The soundtrack as a whole is nothing short of amazing. Every song just fits so perfectly.
The soundtrack as a whole is nothing short of amazing. Every song just fits so perfectly.
GGNKovalski
Member
Some more reaction vids:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXQlUFFMHCY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kx6XXAIGEG8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTYPF21bc2g This is a full playthrough but some good reactions throughout.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXQlUFFMHCY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kx6XXAIGEG8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTYPF21bc2g This is a full playthrough but some good reactions throughout.
GGNKovalski
Member
GregHorrorShow
Neo Member
Amazing game, I chose the sacrifice Chloe ending as it made more sense - that her not dying had knocked the universe off course.
Such a great experience and I look forward to whatever Dontnod do next.
It's also really cool to go through some of the posts in this thread and see a good amount of debate and theorizing going on.
Such a great experience and I look forward to whatever Dontnod do next.
It's also really cool to go through some of the posts in this thread and see a good amount of debate and theorizing going on.
In the universe where you helped Dana or didn't, you helped Dana or didn't, and she showed her appreciation of/frustration with that. That's what happened, and that's what happened to Dana. With the end-game overwrite, we create a timeline where these things didn't necessarily happen, but they still exist 100% in that universe.
But that's the thing. All your choices did have consequences. You didn't erase them. Perhaps they didn't happen in the final reality, but that doesn't mean they were erased. You say "Everything was erased from reality in the sacrifice Chloe ending" – no it wasn't. If you know anything about Many Worlds Theory (which is near-proven mathematically) you'll know that all of these parallel universes are just as 'real' and valid as what we experience now. So Max standing at Chloe's grave at the end doesn't erase the fact that she helped Dana/killed Chloe/saved Kate in another universe. Those are just as real.
And if your argument is that you never impacted on these people in the current timeline, well... That's fine. That's what happened. It's besides the point whether Max helped or didn't help.
1. Aha, so we're going for the 'what the game promoted isn't what we got' argument. That's a load of crap. Marketing will never match the product you get, ever, for better or worse. People use the same argument regarding MGSV and countless other games. Marketing isn't some contractual promise of what will be in a game. The people writing the story usually don't even have any influence over what is said in adverts.
Just evaluate the game for what it is. In a vacuum. If you can, drop your expectations. No game has ever really delivered on the 'your choices matter' premise. As far as I can tell, Deus Ex 1 and The Witcher 3 are pretty close.
2. ... But we know what happens in the end. We know what happens with that 'sculpture' we create throughout the narrative.
Everyone gets killed. Max's powers mean that a supertornado comes and kills everyone she tried to help, every way she got involved.
So what you would like is a totally different ending, which threw away all the foreshadowing/lore around the supertornado, and instead just had people living on with the crazy ramifications of Max's influence? That would be cool. I agree. But A) that's not an ending to Max's story, and B) that would require at least another episode. These people are working to a budget - a tight money budget and a super-tight time budget.
3. Objectivity is a lie. It doesn't exist. It literally doesn't exist. If you are a sentient entity with an organic, evolved brain, nothing you experience in the universe is objective.
And the most important thing a story can do is explore a character, or a few characters, and the friction between their subjective perspective and an "objective" world. And the game succeeds in doing that. Max and Chloe are the centrepiece. We get to explore other people. The game wraps up Max and Chloe's place in the universe and their perspectives.
4. I phrased my argument slightly wrong. Your choices matter, in that they affected people's lives in those timelines and in the end caused an ecological catastophe. But the point was that in the end, not messing with timelines was the real 'right choice'. In the end, time travel just breaks stuff. That's why Max decided to roll back to a non-influenced universe.
This. It's the same principle as Primer and the Butterfly Effect.
In Primer: time travel fucks shit up. The instant you start doing it, everything is ruined.
In Butterfly Effect: time travel fucks shit up. The only way to fix it is to go back and remove the first instance where you ever did it.
QuickSilverD
Member
The more I think about it, the more I'm disliking episode 5 "endings"
it appears we have different definitions of what constitutes "funny".
it appears we have different definitions of what constitutes "funny".
This reminds me of that deleted scene from Donnie Darko where we see him impaled on his bed's footboard after the jet engine destroyed his room.
In the commentary they say they removed it because it was just too violent and against the tone of the rest of the film.
I watched it without even knowing it existed and was traumatised. In the final cut Donnie is presented as this wise, rich individual who is trapped in this winding, unravelling trippy plot. He's a timeless, brilliant character. Then in the deleted scene he is just reduced to a grotesque corpse impaled against his bed in a ruined teenagers room...
Just too brutal.
Fucking brilliant.
Manny Calavera
Member
That's pretty much me as well. The ending is just too damn sad and heartbreaking. Couldn't even make myself watch the whole video now.
Manny Calavera
Member
Interesting. I've seen the film several times, both versions, but never saw that deleted scene. Sounds really brutal and I'm not sure if I want to see it now.
You have to go out of your way on the DVD release into the Deleted Scenes menu to watch it.
Wouldn't recommend it. Really grim and doesn't fit. It's like something from a different movie.
RedSparrows
Member
New play through. Chloe lives. No other choice. Not doing that scene again, it crushed me. Best cutscene I have ever seen for me, irrespective of plot quality etc.
GGNKovalski
Member
Just finished up another playthrough today. Chloe lives. Always. I can watch other people play the sacrifice Chloe ending but it's not my ending. I will never choose it.
Same for the William lives arch. I could never. NEVER.
GGNKovalski
Member
Yeah that one, for me, was a bit easier to agree with her wishes as she was dying and there was no way to stop it.
Joyce and William are in the room next door, I'm NOT killing their daughter wtf
not to mention I'd be going to goddamn jail
Galactic Fork
A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
You saaaay you believe that, but do you actually think about what this means? With Max's powers, it becomes geographical. And it makes Max a pretty bad person really. For example in the case of Chloe's car accident, it'd be like going to her house, hanging out, and after you make your choice about killing her or not, you just stand up shrug and say, "well, this is all too intense for me," and rather than staying for the aftermath, rather than supporting her friend until her final day, or comforting her parents after she dies (by Max or otherwise (and definitely avoiding the consequences if she killed Chloe herself)), she just hops in her car and drives off to another town where she can hang out with friends who are a bit less depressing, until that becomes something she doesn't like, then she just goes off again to somewhere else more pleasing, or at least with less to deal with.
That is how it is with the all the universes exist idea. Max doesn't have time power, she just hops from place to place looking for somewhere that isn't such a drag, can't find one and so settles for one of 2 places at the end. Yeah, I'm not a fan of that.
You are overselling how proven Many Worlds is, and you're really misinterpreting what they mean by "worlds" and equating it with the multiverse interpretation.
I never said it was a contractual obligation, I was stating my disappointment that I was expecting something else. I'm not sure why you're demanding I lower my expectations or else I can't say I'm disappointed.
This is inaccurate, we were given 1 way to prevent the tornado. This shows it's possible to stop it even with all the foreshadowing. Besides, the vision of the tornado also came before Max ever used her powers, I would think it would be more likely the powers were intended to stop the tornado, rather than the cause. I was optimistic there was more going on than just "Max is the cause." That kind of thing has been done over and over so much it's basically expected, and besides. And I think they coulda done a much better way of showing how time travel ruins everything than by something so contrived as a giant tornado.
Besides, if you go by the whole multiverse, she didn't stop the tornadoes at all, bouncing between worlds created the tornado in each of those other worlds, and in the sacrifice Chloe ending, she just hops to a universe and doesn't interfere with Chloe's death, so that universe won't have a storm, but in all those other universes she visited, she caused tons of deaths.
And I so hate the "they are a small team" or "they had time constraints." How exactly is saying that the team wasn't good enough to make a better game supposed to make me less disappointed? Or change my opinion about it at all?
There's a difference between not being able to perceive something objectively and there not being a reality outside of your own perceptions. Or else you're suggesting the universe spontaneously burst into existence the day you were born.
And in your interpretation leaving a trail of death and destruction in her wake, only helping herself avoid catastrophe at the end.
GGNKovalski
Member
I thought of it that way as well but also, does it matter? Because you just go back and change it anyway. That was my thought process. "Oh well I'm sure I'm just going to hop through time again." Unless we assume that reality(other universe) exists now no matter what the actual Max does.
Incredibly touching and difficult scene either way.
by that logic she'll stop suffering whether you kill her or not as soon as you leave too, so why kill her?!
GGNKovalski
Member
True. Got me there.
I guess I was thinking of what I would do IRL. If my best friend or SO requested that and I knew they would die, I'd probably do it. Maybe after talking to the parents first though? Hell I don't know. That scene definitely tore me up. I knew we'd go back but still a tough choice an a emotional scene.
Your choices matter in a way that influence you on which ending you want to go with. If you want to live with the consequences of your choices and live with your best friend/lover, then sacrifice the town. If you want all of these people you've met throughout your journey to be alive, then sacrifice Chloe. I get that you don't get to see how your choices could change the endings, but I don't think this was the dev's goal with the game.
Demoskinos
Member
Fuck that song. Lmao. I can't even listen to half of the soundtrack anymore without just instantly wanting to cry. Uuuuugh Dontnod you glorious assholes.
GGNKovalski
Member
So I walked into the haze
And a million dirty ways
Now I see you lying there
Like a lie low losing air, air
Demoskinos
Member
Damn my dude lol...
I can't get enough of Spanish Sahara. It doesn't really make me sad though...it's just a very catchy song.
AlphaDragoon
Member
That's such a great song and fit the moment so well. That dude was bawling lol. The ending itself didn't have even remotely that kind of emotional wreckage for me, partially because I was never big on Chloe and partially because it was the way I always saw it having to end.
But then on the other hand, you have this guy who is just broken. You could tell how much he connected with Chloe as a character. It's an interesting thing to see how differently people process this.
Just posting some of my shots.
Dat feel when you know you fucked up.
I don't think anyone posted this from the nightmare?
get reddy to fukkin DIEEE BISHES x 2
Great lighting / DOF effect here (looks nicer on my TV screen though; not sure if they all get across in the pics).
RIP Chloe.
RIP Chloe again.
I can now finally join you guys at the Life is Strange spoiler thread ! Completed episode 5 today and sacrificed Chloe. What a phenomenally well done game. Great 5 episodes and the ending is definitely a heavy one. I've refrained from crying but my eyes did water up. Thinking back now, the game really makes you have a difficult time choosing the sacrifice. They gave you the little tour of adventure between you and Chloe right before you ending up at the lighthouse before you make the choice. I was just like, DANG don't make me choose !
Make season 2 immediately !!! Brand new cast, let's go !
Hold me now GAF
I need a hug.
Make season 2 immediately !!! Brand new cast, let's go !
Hold me now GAF
I need a hug.BumblebeeCody
Member
I had to fight back the tears
Yeah same. I can't listen to Spanish Sahara though. Does anyone else listen to some of the songs and instantly think of that one scene where the song appears? For example, I was listening to Jose Gonzales - Crosses and instantly thought of Max on the bus in Episode 2. Or the song Mountains make you think of when Chloe and Max found Rachael's body?
There was one in the entire of episode 5 that I think really stood out.
And that's fine. I say later on that this is all up for interpretation. I like the many-universes idea, but the 'it's all one time-strand' idea is equally valid.
It's been years since I read deep into the theory, so you're probably right. But from what I can recall, I don't see how Many Worlds isn't relevant to this discussion and there are lines in the game which suggest that's how it works.
I know you didn't – I obviously exaggerated – but that was your tone. One of pure entitlement. If you're disappointed by the game in light of what they said, just say "this is disappointing because they emphasised something else in the trailers." Don't say "they promised otherwise," because they didn't. Your exact word was 'promise'. You shouldn't believe everything you see in trailers.
The vision of the tornado comes from the onset of Max's powers, immediately before she uses them for the first time. She's leaping forward in (for the only time in the series, which is an inconsitency) to witness a possible future. Same thing happens in the novel The Time Traveller's Wife.
I don't disagree with you that the 'Max is the cause' argument is a bit lame, but arguably it's really 'messing with time is the cause', not 'Max is the cause'. The point is that Max properly subscribes to her time travel powers rather than letting things unfold naturally. Again, the point is that messing with time is bad and the Chloe ending wraps that up. (Still haven't played the save Chloe ending. Surely in that, it's all fine?)
I think that's a fine interpretation.
We don't know what the game's actual logic surrounding this is. If there's one time-strand, then everyone is fine. If there are parallels, everyone is not fine and several universes are fucked. It's all food for thought, based on interpretation and speculation. I've been going by the multi-universe/strand idea, but the more I think about it the single-strand idea is fine, too. Either way, the game tied up all the things which needed to be tied up.
OK, so you just equated "they are a small team" and "they had time constraints" with "the team wasn't good enough". What the fuck, man? You could take the greatest development team in history and cut their dev cycle by a year and they would put out a turd. Resources (eg time, money) and good management are the main factor in deciding a game's quality. The former were obviously a challenge in this case.
In terms of making you less disappointed - that's fair enough, and obviously it won't. But don't blame the developers for not giving you the story you wanted. This is all your interpretation.
The crux of my point is that it's fucking hard making videogames and that we should have some sympathy for how hard they tried. Because it's clear they didn't just throw it out there. And we know for a fact that they had to rush it.
The bolded is genuinely a serious point of philosophical discussion. The classic "if you can't see it/confirm it yourself, it doesn't exist". Everything your senses pick up from birth to death are as reliable as a hallucination (because it all goes through the dominating filter of your imagination and consciousness). But it's off-topic.
You neatly side-stepped my actual point about how Max's subjective journey through all these potential alternate timelines lead to realisations about herself and her relationship with Chloe. Which is ultimately the point of any story: the characters.
Well the catastrophe happens anyway, right? In that reading, all these universes exist anyway, universes where she did different things at different times to affect outcomes.
Alternately, in the single-strand timeline idea, the catastrophe was always going to happen so it was moot, unless she let Chloe die - at which point she helped everyone in the best way possible by preventing the storm.
It's complicated - frankly the fact that the game has sparked a discussion like this makes it, in my eyes, a complete success in terms of story.
I dipped out of here for a while after finishing up but man...am I the only one that just never grew to like Chloe? Like, at all. I didn't dislike her but she was just...there.
It's watching reaction videos that's making me wonder. Everyone's bawling at this ending and while I liked it, felt the gravity and all that, my reaction was pretty much just "oh okay" because I didn't really care for Chloe nor see it as a surprise. It was kinda obvious we'd have to to that from the start and I was hoping their whole 'multiple endings' thing would actually lead to different outcomes.
It's still one of the best games I've played this year and I can totally see how that ending is killer if you ended up liking Chloe but she never ever clicked with me. I felt more, both positively and negatively, with every other character in the game. Chloe just existed.
It's watching reaction videos that's making me wonder. Everyone's bawling at this ending and while I liked it, felt the gravity and all that, my reaction was pretty much just "oh okay" because I didn't really care for Chloe nor see it as a surprise. It was kinda obvious we'd have to to that from the start and I was hoping their whole 'multiple endings' thing would actually lead to different outcomes.
It's still one of the best games I've played this year and I can totally see how that ending is killer if you ended up liking Chloe but she never ever clicked with me. I felt more, both positively and negatively, with every other character in the game. Chloe just existed.
Upon further reflection of the game ending, I felt that perhaps I should have saved Chloe in the end. Ultimately I feel saving Arcadia Bay is probably the default ending because of the will of the universe and all that. If you really think about it though, the universe did also ultimately gave you a single chance to save Chloe. At the right time and at the right place, you were given time traveling power and also the game plot that gave you this journey. The universe gave you this small and singular chance to save thr doomed Chloe, and that has to count for something.
Last_colossi
Member
Well I just finished episode 5..... That was, ugh.. Something.
Let me first say that I was one of those people who bought the season pass as soon as I finished the first episode as I fell in love with the characters and story straight away, so you can understand that (like many others) I've been waiting for this ending for quite sometime.
That being said I'm not going to lie, I'm straight up pissed off.
I didn't wait 8 fucking months to find out that my only choices are either:
- Go back to the first episode and let Chloe die so I can save the entire town and turn in Mr Jefferson (who is a terrible excuse for an antagonist)
Or
- Let Chloe live and fuck everybody else.
I chose the latter as I didn't go through five episodes saving Chloe and trying to make all the right decisions for nothing, fuck the town and fuck this ending.
Sorry for the rant but I guess it just tells you how good the game was prior to this episode and how much it really meant to me.
Let me first say that I was one of those people who bought the season pass as soon as I finished the first episode as I fell in love with the characters and story straight away, so you can understand that (like many others) I've been waiting for this ending for quite sometime.
That being said I'm not going to lie, I'm straight up pissed off.
I didn't wait 8 fucking months to find out that my only choices are either:
- Go back to the first episode and let Chloe die so I can save the entire town and turn in Mr Jefferson (who is a terrible excuse for an antagonist)
Or
- Let Chloe live and fuck everybody else.
I chose the latter as I didn't go through five episodes saving Chloe and trying to make all the right decisions for nothing, fuck the town and fuck this ending.
Sorry for the rant but I guess it just tells you how good the game was prior to this episode and how much it really meant to me.
Which is why there is no "true" ending. Life Is Strange is a game that works with the idea of your perception of what happened throughout the journey really well. It's up to your interpretation to understand what is the best ending for you. My Max, with the choices she makes, could not save Arcadia Bay. It's not that she's selfish or doesn't care about the others. She does. But she struggles with trying to not mess up again and, in the end, accepts her limitations and decides to live with the consequences of her choices. She also loves Chloe more than anyone else.
While for others, this may not make sense. Because, with their journey, this choice simply doesn't fit. And that's okay.
RedSparrows
Member
Yeah, I didn't get sad for Chloe, really. More for Max.
Just finished Episode 5 last night, and it's just now starting to hit me how much I'm going to miss the adventures of Max and Chloe. Arcadia Bay was an interesting place, and I'm pretty excited to see where Dontnod takes us next.
After spending some time catching up on this thread and sifting through all of the discussion about how Max's time powers work, I'd like to add something of my own: I think there's a major difference to be considered between the "rewind" power and the "photo diving" power.
I suspect that the Rewind power does exactly that. It rewinds events exactly to how they were a few moments ago. This allows for things like Max's "teleportation" into Wells' office to work, since she can will the world around her back into place with no effect to herself, and since things are just being rewound like a tape multiple timelines are not being created.
Example: If Max botches her attempts to warn David in the Dark Room multiple times, it isn't leaving behind a growing bodycount across multiple timelines. It's just one string of events, being altered over and over until a conclusion is reached that is suitable for Max.
Photo Diving works a bit differently. More than just a huge rewind, Max forces her consciousness backwards into a previous Max and then proceeds to poke around until she finds a way to accomplish her goal. Once her mission is completed, the Max Consciousness is forced onto a newly branched alternate timeline, where she will now take the place of the Max that was previously there.
Example: Max hides William's keys. This forces the Max Consciousness onto Timeline B, where William lives and Chloe is paralyzed, while Timeline A continues to exist, the events of that timeline march on unabated. As to whether or not Timeline B is erased when Max returns to Timeline A is left up to interpretation. Perhaps her attempts to return to Timeline A actually result in Timeline C.
As an additional thought... I find myself wondering if Rewind has more of a physical toll on Max (resulting in things like general exhaustion, the sudden inability to use her power) while Photo Diving is more damaging to the general space-time continuum.
Edit: Here's a quick and dirty graphic to illustrate what I mean.
After spending some time catching up on this thread and sifting through all of the discussion about how Max's time powers work, I'd like to add something of my own: I think there's a major difference to be considered between the "rewind" power and the "photo diving" power.
I suspect that the Rewind power does exactly that. It rewinds events exactly to how they were a few moments ago. This allows for things like Max's "teleportation" into Wells' office to work, since she can will the world around her back into place with no effect to herself, and since things are just being rewound like a tape multiple timelines are not being created.
Example: If Max botches her attempts to warn David in the Dark Room multiple times, it isn't leaving behind a growing bodycount across multiple timelines. It's just one string of events, being altered over and over until a conclusion is reached that is suitable for Max.
Photo Diving works a bit differently. More than just a huge rewind, Max forces her consciousness backwards into a previous Max and then proceeds to poke around until she finds a way to accomplish her goal. Once her mission is completed, the Max Consciousness is forced onto a newly branched alternate timeline, where she will now take the place of the Max that was previously there.
Example: Max hides William's keys. This forces the Max Consciousness onto Timeline B, where William lives and Chloe is paralyzed, while Timeline A continues to exist, the events of that timeline march on unabated. As to whether or not Timeline B is erased when Max returns to Timeline A is left up to interpretation. Perhaps her attempts to return to Timeline A actually result in Timeline C.
As an additional thought... I find myself wondering if Rewind has more of a physical toll on Max (resulting in things like general exhaustion, the sudden inability to use her power) while Photo Diving is more damaging to the general space-time continuum.
Edit: Here's a quick and dirty graphic to illustrate what I mean.
Yeah, I felt the same way. Which is why choosing the ending wasn't such a big deal for me. There were very few times where I felt legit sorry for Chloe, which is probably not the games intention right? Of course it's impossible to create a character that appeals to everyone, but it sucks to have to some players not get attached to the second main character. Not sure how they could fix it, but it annoyed me to be railroaded into putting up with Chloe's crap. It's one of those things with these types of games where you have to ask if your playing the character as you or as that character would behave from the info you're given.
I saw them in concert two years ago. They are absolutely fantastic live.
AlphaDragoon
Member
It wasn't just you. It didn't happen for me or my brother at all. Like, I could see glimmers of a likeable Chloe under all the angst and blaming everyone else, but then it was always pushed down. I'm thinking my sister feels the same as she's playing through it also. I actually liked Dana more than Chloe, being honest.
Kinda obvious by my avatar, but they totally got me with Kate. From the first episode I was in "give this girl a better life, fuck these bullies" mode. And obviously I was extremely happy that I was able to talk her down off the roof and then got the nice payoff of the hospital scene later showing a glimpse of the happy, full of light Kate they said she was before the bullying started.
I also really got invested in Max herself. She was such a great main character and the gaming world deserves more like her.
Uhm
Guys
Guys
I just realized something
So you know how it's not really made clear what happens to the people in the Two Whales diner in the Sac Arcadia Bay ending but it's "assumed" "everyone" dies?
I just realized, you know what happens to the diner if Max doesn't visit it, which she doesn't because she goes straight to the lighthouse?
That's right, IT BLOWS THE FUCK UP.
(Unless Max warned Joyce and Warren not to go there, which she really should've done... But given that she didnt tell Chloe to do so and interim-Max knows nothing about the diner blowing up.............. I sense bad news)
Guys
Guys
I just realized something
So you know how it's not really made clear what happens to the people in the Two Whales diner in the Sac Arcadia Bay ending but it's "assumed" "everyone" dies?
I just realized, you know what happens to the diner if Max doesn't visit it, which she doesn't because she goes straight to the lighthouse?
That's right, IT BLOWS THE FUCK UP.
(Unless Max warned Joyce and Warren not to go there, which she really should've done... But given that she didnt tell Chloe to do so and interim-Max knows nothing about the diner blowing up.............. I sense bad news)