Lik-Sang has PSP... loading?

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Belfast said:
Shit people, you need to get some perspective. You're complaining about this loading time from the perspective of it being a PRINCIPLE (i.e. Portables should not have load times, blah blah blah) instead of the looking at the reality of the situation. OK, so you're sitting on the toilet, doing your business. ANY game you boot up is going to take at least 30 seconds for you to get into anyway. I'm not talking about loading up, but instead actually accomplishing any goals within said game. When you're done doing your business, you're just going to switch off the game without having actually accomplished anything. The ONLY game that could circumvent this is Wario Ware, but that's because of the way it was designed. Its not worth complaining about since WW plays faster than just about ANY other game out there. This whole thing is about as silly as when people were bitching about FF7 before it came out cause there was going to be swearing and crossdressing and shit. I should know, I was there. I was an embittered Nbot at the time! What I'm saying is that those 30 seconds are ultimately negligent in ANY REALISTIC SITUATION. If you plan on sitting on the toilet for another 30 minutes after you're done, too lazy to move, that it honestly doesn't matter anyway, now does it?

Please, people, get some perspective and quit complaining about absolutely banal (and completely expected, since WE'VE KNOWN THE PSP USES AN OPTICAL DRIVE SINCE IT WAS ANNOUNCED) bullshit. Do you honestly think 30 seconds is going to matter on a long car trip? Do you think 30 seconds is going to be long at the doctor's office (since it usually takes an hour to actually get in there anyway after you've signed in)? Do you think it matters for the average Japanese person on a 2hour commute to work?
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We can probably lock this thread, b/c the nail got hit squarely on the head with this post. Perspective says it all. If you can't wait 30 seconds (and realize that the load times listed are HALF that), then I don't know how you got through the last two gens (yes, even my GC has 10+ second load times as evidenced by Madden 2005), and I don't know how you're gonna enjoy gaming from now on. With each gen, RAM increases. Drive speeds increase too, but with more RAM to fill, it means the games will still have load time. The only ways to drop load times to the sub 5s region is with a HDD or by using solid-state media. Both are costly and shortsighted options. The best option is to just stop bitching about it.

JoshuaJSlone said:
Sure the most popular system has had the longest load times, fewest controller ports, and highest price, but that doesn't make those qualities any better.
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They aren't better because of it, but I think it makes it clear that those factors don't mean a whole lot in the grand scheme of things, and definitely not to the extent the fanboys would want us to think. It really just boils down to software and marketing IMO.

paul777 said:
I have a very hard time believing that loading times won't make a difference. The bulk of handheld gaming consumers are as casual as they come. They look for convenience, simple recognizable fun, low prices, and pokemon (notice that the prettiest graphics or newest tech does not factor in at all). PSP can offer the simple fun, but loading times are awfully inconvenient and a deal breaker for a consumer that just wants that simple fun on the go. Factor in the gargantuan competition that the PSP faces in the Game Boy Advance and its pseudo-sequel, DS, and those loading times become an issue if Sony intends for this thing to compete for Nintendo's market.
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There are more console gamers than handheld gamers. Thus, there are more casual gamers on consoles than there are on handhelds. Can you recall a time when one of your friends complained about the load time? I keep mentioning it b/c it is probably the worst offender of load times in history, but we've had endless Madden marathons where not a single peep was made about the load time. And on the PS2, the load times just to get into a game has to be over 20 seconds, and close to 30. It's friggin insane. On the GC, it's gotta be over 15 seconds. Yet the loading has never taken away from the fun of the game. If you really haven't adjusted to loadtimes in games, then you haven't played many of them in the last few years. Load times are a matter of fact now. They'll never be gone until solid-state media is dirt cheap is massive quantities. But seeing as that hasn't happened yet, I'm not gonna hold my breath. A plastic disc will always be cheaper to manufacture than silicon. So, optical media (and the load time it brings) will always be around. PEACE.
 
Dude, I browse this forum from the toilet sometimes. Isn't that the entire reason we have portable computing, so you can really game "on the go"? :D :lol No one really gives a shit online, but I'm sure more than a few are taking one. :lol OK, enough of this nonsense. PEACE.
 
Pimpwerx said:
There are more console gamers than handheld gamers. Thus, there are more casual gamers on consoles than there are on handhelds. Can you recall a time when one of your friends complained about the load time? I keep mentioning it b/c it is probably the worst offender of load times in history, but we've had endless Madden marathons where not a single peep was made about the load time. And on the PS2, the load times just to get into a game has to be over 20 seconds, and close to 30. It's friggin insane. On the GC, it's gotta be over 15 seconds. Yet the loading has never taken away from the fun of the game. If you really haven't adjusted to loadtimes in games, then you haven't played many of them in the last few years. Load times are a matter of fact now. They'll never be gone until solid-state media is dirt cheap is massive quantities. But seeing as that hasn't happened yet, I'm not gonna hold my breath. A plastic disc will always be cheaper to manufacture than silicon. So, optical media (and the load time it brings) will always be around. PEACE.
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Are you purposefully going on a tangent here or do you actually believe that what people expect from a home console is going to be the same thing they expect from a portable?

And to answer your question and relate it to handhelds at the same time: I've played single-cart Mario Kart multiplayer with a friend on GBA, and we both complained about the loading.
 
paul777 said:
Are you purposefully going on a tangent here or do you actually believe that what people expect from a home console is going to be the same thing they expect from a portable?

And to answer your question and relate it to handhelds at the same time: I've played single-cart Mario Kart multiplayer with a friend on GBA, and we both complained about the loading.
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If they don't expect loading times on a handheld, they'll learn quickly not to care. ONCE AGAIN, look at the original CD vs cartridge debate when CD was introduced for consoles. People bitched and bitched and bitched and bitched, but it never made one IOTA of difference and now, people really don't give a crap anymore. Most people are happy enough to play their games, loading times or not. Just let it go.
 
loading times aren't the problem when we're talking the wait, it just sucks when theres lots of loading and you have something called battery drainage to worry about as well.


Oh oh batteries getting low..goes to save..waits for loading...middle of loading oops battery died. I'm sure that would be a rare thing to happen if ever, but it could be a possibility.
 
drohne, you're easily one of the better posters on the board I'd say. Clever delivery and biting criticism, it's usually pretty enjoyable seeing you take the Nintendo fanbase to task.... but it's getting a bit old. Nintendo fans aren't the only predictable creatures on the boards these days.
 
Belfast said:
If they don't expect loading times on a handheld, they'll learn quickly not to care. ONCE AGAIN, look at the original CD vs cartridge debate when CD was introduced for consoles. People bitched and bitched and bitched and bitched, but it never made one IOTA of difference and now, people really don't give a crap anymore. Most people are happy enough to play their games, loading times or not. Just let it go.
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You're trying to build a precedent where there is none. The change to optical media has not occurred in the handheld market yet. The best you can do is relate how the expectations of console gamers did change, and that it can happen in the portable world as well. In which I case, I would contend that that won't happen as long as Game Boy/DS is a legitimate contender.
 
Belfast said:
If they don't expect loading times on a handheld, they'll learn quickly not to care. ONCE AGAIN, look at the original CD vs cartridge debate when CD was introduced for consoles. People bitched and bitched and bitched and bitched, but it never made one IOTA of difference and now, people really don't give a crap anymore. Most people are happy enough to play their games, loading times or not. Just let it go.
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Only if you're a sony fanboy. Everyone I know and people I've talked to hates loading times. Seriously though with the tech these days load times should be a thing of the past especially for handhelds.
 
The DS feels like cheap, hollow plastic.

The PSP looks insanely sleek.

I'm not getting either until some good games show up, which should be by the end of next year. Because, you know, I care about video games. Not companies or profits or how much the ladies love whatever handheld system is in my pants.
 
Judging by some screenshots, RR runs in 16 bit color mode and has some dithering. Is any of that dithering apparent when you see the game on the actual LCD screen? Also, is there any visible image ghosting when things move fast across the screen. I'm asking about that problem that LCD screens usually have, not the intentional software motion blur integrated into RR
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I notice the dithering in the screenshots, but I didn't notice any such problem when actually playing the game. Also, I didn't notice any of the blur problems that I notice with my television. Ridge Racers does run at 60 frames per second according to a new interview with Namco, so this should spell good things for future high speed games.
 
Gantz said:
Only if you're a sony fanboy. Everyone I know and people I've talked to hates loading times. Seriously though with the tech these days load times should be a thing of the past especially for handhelds.
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Look at it. It's tiny and it does way more than any handheld has ever done before. The load times are excusable for disc based media. And what do you mean "especially for handhelds"? When was the last time a handheld was disc-based?
 
Mzo said:
I'm not getting either until some good games show up, which should be by the end of next year. Because, you know, I care about video games. Not companies or profits or how much the ladies love whatever handheld system is in my pants.
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Both platforms will have multiple good games by the end of this year.
 
Hmm, I'll take 15 seconds load times for Ridge racers over the entire mediocrity of the DS line-up every day. Can't wait for 12/12 to come :)
 
The DS feels like cheap, hollow plastic.
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I disagree..it looks fine, not the prettiest thing ever, but it looks cool.

The PSP looks insanely sleek.
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true, but is it durable?? Already the finish and screen are prone to finger prints all over the place. I can only imagine scratches as being very very visible. This is one reason why i will never take my psp (if I get one) outside.
 
btrboyev said:
The DS feels like cheap, hollow plastic.
I disagree..it looks fine, not the prettiest thing ever, but it looks cool.

The PSP looks insanely sleek.[quoye]

true, but is it durable?? Already the finish and screen are prone to finger prints all over the place. I can only imagine scratches as being very very visible. This is one reason why i will never take my psp (if I get one) outside.
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The DS screen is subject to scratches because of the writing.
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Mzo said:
Look at it. It's tiny and it does way more than any handheld has ever done before. The load times are excusable for disc based media. And what do you mean "especially for handhelds"? When was the last time a handheld was disc-based?
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Handheld games since the very first ones had no load times at all. Just turn it on and start playing. Well considering the size of the disc, it shouldn't take no time at all to load.
 
This might have been said already but I didn't feel like reading through all the fanboy flaming.

You can either have expensive, low capacity cartridges with no load time or cheap, high capacity disks with load time. I personally like the later method more, but I can see why some others might like the former.

If you are one of the people that hate load times, just don't buy the PSP. We don't need a 4th thread about this.
 
Gantz said:
Handheld games since the very first ones had no load times at all. Just turn it on and start playing. Well considering the size of the disc, it shouldn't take no time at all to load.
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People said the same thing when cd-based consoles appeared back in the late '80

pic4546145.jpg

"and what do they have to say now..?"
 
Gantz said:
Handheld games since the very first ones had no load times at all. Just turn it on and start playing. Well considering the size of the disc, it shouldn't take no time at all to load.
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A smaller disk size may decrease access time, but it doesn't have much impact on the transfer rate.
 
Gantz said:
Only if you're a sony fanboy. Everyone I know and people I've talked to hates loading times. Seriously though with the tech these days load times should be a thing of the past especially for handhelds.
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I don't think anyone LIKES loading times. However, a majority of the people out there seem to find them negligent enough to continue purchasing mounds upon mounds of games with loading times in them (i.e. 100% of modern console games). Point is, people honestly don't give a shit. Its one of those things they might complain about, but at the end of the day, it honestly doesn't gain precedent over being able to play the games themsleves.

And paul, who's building a precedent? You're assuming as much as I am. At least *I* have a point of reference from a similar argument that was posed about 10 years ago. You have nothing but anecdotes to back your own claims up.
 
Mzo said:
It looks ok, but I said it FEELS like cheap, hollow plastic. And it does.
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I dont mind my handhelds feeling a bit cheap and plasticky. It's more rugged that way. I can toss it in the bag and dont have to worry about keeping it looking pretty.

IF I ever do get a PSP It sounds like the system is better suited for home use.
 
Arcticfox said:
You can either have expensive, low capacity cartridges with no load time or cheap, high capacity disks with load time.
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Well how about going for the middle ground with cheap, high capacity 3DM cards with no load times? :)
 
Bah,

The only complaints about loading will come from GAF member that need something to bitch about. Considering PSP will be many peoples first dedicated handheld they won't know enough to even care. :)
 
Gantz said:
Seriously though with the tech these days load times should be a thing of the past especially for handhelds.
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What tech is that? What's the complexity and capacity of game data it can handle without load times?

Suggesting that load times are a thing of the past just means that you're severely restricting game design in some other way, based on today's tech that I'm aware of.
 
Belfast: Of course I'm assuming. That's what happens when you have an opinion of what might happen in the future. It just doesn't seem likely to me that the people who make GBA a huge success will accept relatively long loading times in a handheld when there are other appealing options that don't have them. Your 'point of reference' does not persuade me, not only because its not in the sphere of portable gaming, but also because the N64 was not a very appealing option compared to the competition.
 
Arcticfox said:
The DS's cartridges are still several times more expensive per MB than the PSP's UMDs.
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But that doesn't make them expensive per se. Also, given that 3DM ceilings will continue moving forward, it's very possible that 3DM might actually surpass UMD's dual layered 1.8GB limit at favorable prices within a few years. The technology is brand new, the fact that 64MB cards can already be sold at retail for under $10 is an impressive jump forward for solid state media.

Like I said, it seems like a favorable middle ground between traditional solid state ROM and optical ROM, and it has far more future growth potential than either other option.
 
paul777 said:
Belfast: Of course I'm assuming. That's what happens when you have an opinion of what might happen in the future. It just doesn't seem likely to me that the people who make GBA a huge success will accept relatively long loading times in a handheld when there are other appealing options that don't have them. Your 'point of reference' does not persuade me, not only because its not in the sphere of portable gaming, but also because the N64 was not a very appealing option compared to the competition.
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Do you mind if I save this?

You know, for the whole inevitable crow eating thread.
 
jarrod said:
But that doesn't make them expensive per se.
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When you're multiplying the cost over the hundreds of thousands of copies that need to be produced, it certainly does become an expensive alternative.
 
mashoutposse said:
When you're multiplying the cost over the hundreds of thousands of copies that need to be produced, it certainly does become an expensive alternative.
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Er, costs generally drop as production goes up thanks to economies of scale. Currently, no question UMD has the price per MB advantage... but UMD is a set in stone format, while 3DM will continue moving forward, bringing higher capacities at lower costs. Besides, it probably costs publishers the same price ording a UMD from SCEI or a 32-64MB 3DM card from Nintendo/Matrix. PSP doesn't really have the price advantage over DS that optical media afforded PS1 over N64.

Again, 3DM isn't itself expensive. Saying so is a bit misleading.
 
paul777 said:
Belfast: Of course I'm assuming. That's what happens when you have an opinion of what might happen in the future. It just doesn't seem likely to me that the people who make GBA a huge success will accept relatively long loading times in a handheld when there are other appealing options that don't have them. Your 'point of reference' does not persuade me, not only because its not in the sphere of portable gaming, but also because the N64 was not a very appealing option compared to the competition.
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But, but....the N64 had no loading times. :( Since apparently loading times are the ONLY factor in whether or not somebody is going to like a console/handheld, then obviously it should've been loads popular than the PS1! The same power that made the PS1 a more attractive option is going to make the PSP an attractive option, as well. Its got that some Sony sensibility behind it. I may be wrong, but history swings in my favor once again. You STILL only have an opinion to go on. Perhaps I have an opinion, too, but at least its informed and backed up with evidence from past trends.

Hell, if loading times bothered everyone so much, none of us would be playing video games anymore.
 
jarrod said:
Er, costs generally drop as production goes up thanks to economies of scale. Currently, no question UMD has the price per MB advantage... but UMD is a set in stone format, while 3DM will continue moving forward, bringing higher capacities at lower costs.
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UMD can and will be influenced by the same cost-decreasing factors. Of course, UMD doesn't have anywhere near as far down to go as it is already dirt cheap. UMD today already offers all of the key benefits that is still years down the line for 3DM (capacity and cost).

And wait until there are 3DM games that are hundreds of megabytes large... Without a doubt, load times will be present.
 
Load time is a function of transfer rate and memory size. When we get consoles with 1GB of RAM and a superfast BR drive that has a transfer rate of 20MB/s, do you think load times will be gone then? Until we get something with a much faster transfer rate compared to the space it needs to fill, then forget about load times going away. PEACE.
 
Optical media has as much room for future growth potential as 3DM has. The point is rather moot though related to either PSP or DS if they don't have the capability to take advantage of that future growth. 1.8 Gig is obviously the max for PSP but what is it for NDS? I've only read "over 128 Meg".
 
Gantz why do you keep posting in this thread?

You just don't seem to get it, it's an optical drive. It requires loading from the disc. this involves a transfer rate, since it's not a solid state like acart it's going to take longer.

And since it is disc based it is MUCH cheaper. MUCH, MUCH cheaper.

Gantz, in case you didn't get it the first 3000000 times...

THERE IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN CARTS (every handheld before) AND DISC BASED (new school PSP) MEDIA!!!!!
 
mashoutposse said:
UMD can and will be influenced by the same cost-decreasing factors. Of course, UMD doesn't have anywhere near as far down to go as it is already dirt cheap. UMD today already offers all of the key benefits that is still years down the line for 3DM (capacity and cost).
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3DM is already "dirt cheap" as well though, disposably so in fact. These things are once write after all, Matrix designed the technology so that cards could be given away free promotionally or used up like film. Save until you fill the card, then just buy another pack for a few bucks. It's being pushed as a new option for embedded solutions too, in addition to data saving/archiving and content publishing.

And you're missing my point a little, yes UMD will also take advantage of production scales bringing down costs over time but the format is limited to 900MB (single layer) or 1.8GB (dual layer). 3DM ceilings will keep going however, past UMD's 1.8GB barrier at some point too.

And UMD lacks the benifits of traditional solid state media (energy use, durability, seek time, interface costs, physical size). It's at one extreme end of the spectrum, with traditional ROM at the other. 3DM is almost the perfect middle ground, low costs, high capacity while still retaining solid state advantages. It wasn't a bad solution at all for DS honestly, and will have matured even further by the time the next Game Boy's ready.


mashoutposse said:
And wait until there are 3DM games that are hundreds of megabytes large... Without a doubt, load times will be present.
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Not 15-20 seconds I'd imagine. It's not even at all comparable to an optical drive.

Also the 128MB and 256MB lines should be going into mass production shortly. We won't be waiting long.
 
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