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Linux Distro Noob thread of Linux noobs

zoku88

Member
I switch web browsers like a bear goes through honey.

I recently started using jumanji, which is yet another one of those minimalistic browsers with vim-like bindings.

I was using dwb before, but it had some problems with performance on certain websites and some implementations of https

I'm liking jumanji so far. Seems pretty fast. The only thing I don't like is that I'm not sure how to select a text field with only my keyboard.
 

Turok_TTZ

Member
Dumped Ubuntu for linux mint. wanted to increase partition size and felt like checking out other OSes while doing that. Mint's Cinnamon seems real nice. one thing i cannot fathom is why I cudn't use nvidia's experimental 310 proprietary driver on ubuntu 12.04. each time i activate that driver, ubuntu boots in a cli like os. whole thing was terminal fullscreen. like it was lacking a desktop environment.

now on mint, the proprietary driver works fine. baffling.
 

Vanillalite

Ask me about the GAF Notebook
Still running Elementary OS Beta as my daily driver. So far I like this, and have been using it as my main for idk a month or so now.
 

Tworak

Member
yeah, I've been checking out Elementary OS for a few days now and it's quite nice. it's very... beautiful, which is definitely not the norm on the linux desktop.

hopefully it gains traction when it releases and more developers join the cause. it feels like a good time to release a linux desktop, too, with all the canonical and ubuntu stupidity lately.
 
I have an old machine that I'm going to retire and turn into an FTP/HFS file server. It's running Ubuntu. I'll be placing it out of reach so I was wondering what the best solution for remote desktop from my Windows 7 and Ubuntu machines to my new(old) Ubuntu file server for maintenance.

Must have a windows and ubuntu client so I can admin the machine from anywhere.

I scanned quickly and didn't see anyone answer your question.

So here are the options in increasing levels of badness/complexity.

1) Don't remote desktop. Use SSH instead to establish a secure-shell (command-line) into your server. You can use the (OpenSSH) ssh client in your Ubuntu desktop to connect to your server, and there are many free clients for Windows (Putty is common, I prefer OpenSSH on Cygwin). You will need to run the SSH server (sshd) on you server.

As a bonus, you can add the -X option to ssh (ssh X11 tunneling) when using your Linux desktop and export graphical applications to your desktop.

This is the option I would use, but I'm happy with the command-line (in fact I prefer it).

There are SSH clients for just about any platform you choose - I have one on my Android phone for example.

2) Do the above, but for the Windows client throw in an X server (there's a free one in Cygwin or there are good commercial options like eXceed). This will allow you (with a little configuration) to do the equivalent of the -X option on your Windows client.

For those not in the know, most GUIs on Linux (and most other Unix-like operating systems) sit on top of a relatively ancient (although constantly updated) stack of software called X-Windows. X-Windows is interesting in a network environment because it allows you to display applications running on one machine, on the desktop of another. Your graphical desktop always runs a piece of software called an X server of which there are many implementations (on most Linux distros X.org is the default/only option). Graphical applications (referred somewhat confusingly as X clients) talk to this X server to display pictures on your screen. This communication is abstracted so that it can happen over a network as well as locally. In the bad old days you used to telnet into the remote machine and set the DISPLAY environment variable appropriately which resulted in insecure communication for various reasons (not least of all encryption) was insecure. Now, with SSH, this traffic can be tunneled securely over your SSH login session, simply and automatically by enabling the option (-X, -Y or whatever is appropriate for your client).

You can also do some cool tricks with things like Xnest to export an entire desktop rather than one application.

3) Use VNC. There are X servers like Xvnc which replace the X server with one which outputs to VNC rather than to a graphics card. You install Xvnc on your server and then you can then connect to it with any VNC client.
 

Tworak

Member
Kernel 3.7 is up on kernelnewbies -- http://kernelnewbies.org/Linux_3.7

biggest additions to me are:
  • ARM 64 bit support
  • TCP Fast Open
  • and possibly the Btrfs updates

this commit is interesting as well
Unlinking fallocated 60G file after doing sync && echo 3 >
/proc/sys/vm/drop_caches && time rm --help

X86 before (linux 3.6-rc4):
# time rm -f test1
real 0m2.710s
user 0m0.000s
sys 0m1.530s

X86 after:
# time rm -f test1
real 0m0.644s
user 0m0.003s
sys 0m0.060s

MIPS before (linux 2.6.37):
# time rm -f test1
real 0m 4.93s
user 0m 0.00s
sys 0m 4.61s

MIPS after:
# time rm -f test1
real 0m 0.16s
user 0m 0.00s
sys 0m 0.06s
 

Consul

Member
So I've purchased a little Lenevo Ideapad that I'm going to use to study and expand my knowledge on networking while slowly learning my way around Linux. Obviously I've read through the OP but I am still no closer to deciding the distro that I want to install. I have noticed backtrack 5 and USB booted but it looks like it's a bit too far into the deep end for me. Does anyone have any recommendations? I'm interested in using the CLI as much as possible. I've had a small amount of previous experience with Ubuntu on a desktop for a few months plus having messed around with an Ubuntu server through a secure shell but I didn't learn much other than basic directory navigation and editing.
 

nan0

Member
So I've purchased a little Lenevo Ideapad that I'm going to use to study and expand my knowledge on networking while slowly learning my way around Linux. Obviously I've read through the OP but I am still no closer to deciding the distro that I want to install. I have noticed backtrack 5 and USB booted but it looks like it's a bit too far into the deep end for me. Does anyone have any recommendations? I'm interested in using the CLI as much as possible. I've had a small amount of previous experience with Ubuntu on a desktop for a few months plus having messed around with an Ubuntu server through a secure shell but I didn't learn much other than basic directory navigation and editing.

Arch starts you with a minimal base system. Both installation and initial configuration is completely CLI based, afterwards you can install what you want. I don't understand why Arch is displayed so negatively in the OT, the official repositories are kinda small, but everything else is in the user repositories (AUR). Once you have everything up and running, there is basically no further intervention with pacman involved, unless they change something major, which is announced on the official page beforehand. If any problem arises, the excellent Wiki helps with most issues.
I got back to Arch after trying various Debian-based distros, as well as Mint and Ubuntu because they meddle too much with custom packages and making weird design decisions.
 

Consul

Member
Thank you for the insightful reply nan0. I really like the sound of a minimal base system that will take wrestling with the CLI to initially install and configure. It didn't take much but you have already sold me on Arch! I'm going to go delve into the wiki. I shall return one day when I actually have some good input and at-least a basic, solid understanding other than amateur questions that I could google.
 

Tworak

Member
Are those specific to some file system or is it across the board?
I think it's just ext4.


yup.
4. Filesystems
Ext4

Speed up truncate/unlink (commit)

--- a/fs/ext4/extents.c
+++ b/fs/ext4/extents.c
@@ -2318,10 +2318,13 @@ static int ext4_remove_blocks(handle_t *handle, struct inode *inode,
struct ext4_sb_info *sbi = EXT4_SB(inode->i_sb);
unsigned short ee_len = ext4_ext_get_actual_len(ex);
ext4_fsblk_t pblk;
- int flags = EXT4_FREE_BLOCKS_FORGET;
+ int flags = 0;

if (S_ISDIR(inode->i_mode) || S_ISLNK(inode->i_mode))
- flags |= EXT4_FREE_BLOCKS_METADATA;
+ flags |= EXT4_FREE_BLOCKS_METADATA | EXT4_FREE_BLOCKS_FORGET;
+ else if (ext4_should_journal_data(inode))
+ flags |= EXT4_FREE_BLOCKS_FORGET;
+
/*
* For bigalloc file systems, we never free a partial cluster
* at the beginning of the extent. Instead, we make a note
quite interesting what the addition of 5 lines of code can do. well, 4 lines.

and what the hell- samba4 released yesterday as well-- after what, a decade in beta? what a curious week.
 
Q

qizah

Unconfirmed Member
I've been curious about Linux Mint for a while now. IIRC, it's based off of Ubuntu - now is there a way to try out Mint via Ubuntu? Is Linux Mint it's own Distribution or is it simply a Desktop Environment that can be used on Ubuntu?
 
I scanned quickly and didn't see anyone answer your question.

So here are the options in increasing levels of badness/complexity.

1) Don't remote desktop. Use SSH instead to establish a secure-shell (command-line) into your server. You can use the (OpenSSH) ssh client in your Ubuntu desktop to connect to your server, and there are many free clients for Windows (Putty is common, I prefer OpenSSH on Cygwin). You will need to run the SSH server (sshd) on you server.

Important note: If your distro runs a firewall, make sure that it leaves port 22 open for ssh to work.



For those not in the know, most GUIs on Linux (and most other Unix-like operating systems) sit on top of a relatively ancient (although constantly updated) stack of software called X-Windows. X-Windows is interesting in a network environment because it allows you to display applications running on one machine, on the desktop of another. Your graphical desktop always runs a piece of software called an X server of which there are many implementations (on most Linux distros X.org is the default/only option). Graphical applications (referred somewhat confusingly as X clients) talk to this X server to display pictures on your screen. This communication is abstracted so that it can happen over a network as well as locally. In the bad old days you used to telnet into the remote machine and set the DISPLAY environment variable appropriately which resulted in insecure communication for various reasons (not least of all encryption) was insecure. Now, with SSH, this traffic can be tunneled securely over your SSH login session, simply and automatically by enabling the option (-X, -Y or whatever is appropriate for your client).

You can also do some cool tricks with things like Xnest to export an entire desktop rather than one application.

I use the crap out of "ssh -X". My IM program and a tabbed text editor that I use to take notes are always running on my home machine, and I made a little script that starts them that looks along the lines of.

Code:
ssh -XCt myusername@myhomeipaddress "programname"

I run them either from the run dialog (Alt-F2 in most environments), or I make an icon for them, no terminal required.

I also use sshfs, which is like having an ultra-secure file share. Depending on the environment, I either mount a remote computer's filesystem to "/home/myusername/othermachinename", so I can open files with programs as if they were local, or in some cases (like most kde apps) I can just open files directly over ssh using the fish or sftp protocols.



3) Use VNC. There are X servers like Xvnc which replace the X server with one which outputs to VNC rather than to a graphics card. You install Xvnc on your server and then you can then connect to it with any VNC client.

These days, it is considered better to use Nomachine's NX (or free equivalents) instead of VNC, as it is over a secure shell. I've had lots of weird issues with it, but when it works it's pretty nice.


and what the hell- samba4 released yesterday as well-- after what, a decade in beta? what a curious week.

Good. I'm having massive problems getting samba3 (on multiple distros, aargh!) to work with passwordless guest-accessed shares. Maybe the new version will work without issue.
 
Q

qizah

Unconfirmed Member
The Unity bar has been acting weird lately.

Whenever I press the Super key and I'm on Desktop 1, I can't press ESC or the Super key again to get out of it, I can only get out of it by pressing the icon again or ctrl+alt+left key to the next desktop and pressing esc to back out of the Dash.

Anyone know any fixes? I tried looking online but couldn't find anything...tried restarting Unity already and Compiz with unity --replace and compiz --replace as well as unity -v. Nada.
 

Dicer

Banned
Panel at top, hot corner top right.

Boom, pretty much the ideal DE for me.


Heh, I do the same thing already...it's a throw back to my Amiga days...

I'm having lockups with Games, wonder if it's the Nvidia driver...otherwise, this system is running so freaking fast and smooth it's amazing.
 
These days, it is considered better to use Nomachine's NX (or free equivalents) instead of VNC, as it is over a secure shell. I've had lots of weird issues with it, but when it works it's pretty nice.

I always forget about NX, mostly cos I've never tried it.

You can tunnel VNC over SSH with a bit of hassle. You can even set it up so that it uses XDM (or your distro's replacement). I generally wouldn't recommended VNC as it's a bit slow.
 

peakish

Member
I've been curious about Linux Mint for a while now. IIRC, it's based off of Ubuntu - now is there a way to try out Mint via Ubuntu? Is Linux Mint it's own Distribution or is it simply a Desktop Environment that can be used on Ubuntu?
Depends on what you mean by wanting Mint - it's Ubuntu based so most everything is there already. If you're talking about Cinnamon (or Mate), it seems very possible. This guide might work: http://www.noobslab.com/2012/10/install-latest-cinnamon-163-in-ubuntu.html

does anyone know a good distro for a netbook? couple years old, not the fastest thing in the world
I would go for Ubuntu or something similar and a very lightweight DE or window manager. Xubuntu or, even lighter, Lubuntu comes to mind. Then there's Jolicloud, made especially for netbooks, but it's a very non-standard computing experience.
 

-KRS-

Member
does anyone know a good distro for a netbook? couple years old, not the fastest thing in the world

I'm running Arch with LXDE on my netbook with an Atom N270 and it's great, but I'd recommend some Ubuntu derivative if you are new to Linux. So perhaps Xubuntu (XFCE), and then install LXDE on top of that. But you might want to try XFCE first and see how well it runs on a netbook before switching to LXDE, because LXDE requires a little more knowledge on Linux though nothing extreme. XFCE is lightweight but still very user friendly.

Edit: Just saw Lubuntu mentioned above. Had not heard of that. If you opt for LXDE that's peobably the way to go, although is Lubuntu an official Ubuntu version? Xubuntu is official so maybe it's still better to go with that if Lubuntu is not.
 

luiztfc

Member
Two doubts.

I installed Ubuntu on my notebook and Gnome from it's software manager. But how do I run Gnome? I tried holding shift during startup but I didn't know how to boot it from there.

Also, does anyone know a lightweight but user friendly distro (like ubuntu) for a older netbook? I'm trying to help my mother and she liked Ubuntu, but it runs very slowly in her netbook. Edit: Giving Lubuntu a try!

Thanks!
 

zoku88

Member
Two doubts.

I installed Ubuntu on my notebook and Gnome from it's software manager. But how do I run Gnome? I tried holding shift during startup but I didn't know how to boot it from there.

Also, does anyone know a lightweight but user friendly distro (like ubuntu) for a older netbook? I'm trying to help my mother and she liked Ubuntu, but it runs very slowly in her netbook. Edit: Giving Lubuntu a try!

Thanks!

You should be able to choose GNOME once your display manager loads.

There should be a dropdown menu in your login screen.
 

peakish

Member
So, backup solutions - what do you guys use?

I created a script that tars my stuff and scp's it to a backup server and have it submitted as a Cron job (01 01 * * mon /usr/local/bin/bkp-system.sh should mean it does this around midnight every monday, right?) but after doing that I've looked up some other solutions, including some that rsyncs differences. Not sure what I want ... No experience with anything like this so looking for options. Deja Dup seems interesting?
 

moist

Member
Dumped Ubuntu for linux mint. wanted to increase partition size and felt like checking out other OSes while doing that. Mint's Cinnamon seems real nice. one thing i cannot fathom is why I cudn't use nvidia's experimental 310 proprietary driver on ubuntu 12.04. each time i activate that driver, ubuntu boots in a cli like os. whole thing was terminal fullscreen. like it was lacking a desktop environment.

now on mint, the proprietary driver works fine. baffling.


For whatever reason in the latest version of ubuntu I've had to install the kernel headers and then resinstall the nvidia drivers to get them to work properly, otherwise I had the same wierd desktop as you describe.
 

thefil

Member
This is a weird question and really will demonstrate my ignorance.

In general, I think it is fair to say that Linux applications are uglier than Mac (Cocoa) or even Windows (WPF) applications. I have done some GTK development, and it feels to me like a more bare-bones, bag of components style interface production environment. This feeling extends to most of the desktop environments; even something like Gnome 3, Unity or Elementary feels slow and glitchy compared to an interface on a proprietary platform.

How much of this ugliness is due to X11/GTK cruft? Windows applications are still pretty ugly outside of WPF or Metro, speaking to how much old code can affect this seemingly high-level stuff. Is there any sentiment in the Linux community that despite all their attempts at sleekness, they are behind from the start because they have to build on top of X11/GTK?

For example, why is there still no smooth scrolling on Linux?

Personally I really just use a basic X windows environment with xmonad, so I'm not even the typical end user for these "beautiful" applications. I'm just curious why it's so hard to achieve.
 
This is a weird question and really will demonstrate my ignorance.

I disagree with this part. :p


In general, I think it is fair to say that Linux applications are uglier than Mac (Cocoa) or even Windows (WPF) applications. I have done some GTK development, and it feels to me like a more bare-bones, bag of components style interface production environment. This feeling extends to most of the desktop environments; even something like Gnome 3, Unity or Elementary feels slow and glitchy compared to an interface on a proprietary platform.

How much of this ugliness is due to X11/GTK cruft? Windows applications are still pretty ugly outside of WPF or Metro, speaking to how much old code can affect this seemingly high-level stuff. Is there any sentiment in the Linux community that despite all their attempts at sleekness, they are behind from the start because they have to build on top of X11/GTK?

Try using non-GTK applications for a while. My exposure to gtk is pretty much my IM program and a simple text editor. I like what I get, because I can really customize my experience, and it's fast, and it's smooth. But anybody looking at my desktop would likely run away in fear (my controls are all on the left side of the screen, I have no "task bar", etc). But more to the point, you can make a determination on whether it's a gtk thing or not.


For example, why is there still no smooth scrolling on Linux?

(this is the part where I demonstrate my ignorance!)

What is "smooth scrolling"? Isn't that like the browser thing where it pans up the window when you hit down or up or pagedown or pageup?


Personally I really just use a basic X windows environment with xmonad, so I'm not even the typical end user for these "beautiful" applications. I'm just curious why it's so hard to achieve.

You can do anything you want on top of X, from barebones to hyper-controlled. But one of the philosophies of Linux is to let developers do things their own way. Rigidly enforcing API rules for the platform just isn't a thing here, and standards become standards not by force but by common usage.


Also this coffee has no caffeine. So this post may have no sense.

(also…)
I always forget about NX, mostly cos I've never tried it.

You can tunnel VNC over SSH with a bit of hassle. You can even set it up so that it uses XDM (or your distro's replacement). I generally wouldn't recommended VNC as it's a bit slow.

I use VNC to connect to the Windows box across the room for the one app we need to use on that platform. It's not particularly slow, being pretty close, but yikes at how it forgets to repaint large swaths of the screen sometimes!
 

thefil

Member
What is "smooth scrolling"? Isn't that like the browser thing where it pans up the window when you hit down or up or pagedown or pageup?

Smooth scrolling is primarily used when using a trackpad. Instead of scrolling in "chunks", as when you hit up/down on your keyboard or move a scroll wheel one tick, you have pixel-perfect scrolling based on the exact amount of scrolling input.

It makes a huge amount of difference in user perception of the responsiveness of a system, even though it has no functional effect.
 
Smooth scrolling is primarily used when using a trackpad. Instead of scrolling in "chunks", as when you hit up/down on your keyboard or move a scroll wheel one tick, you have pixel-perfect scrolling based on the exact amount of scrolling input.

It makes a huge amount of difference in user perception of the responsiveness of a system, even though it has no functional effect.

Is it different from the browser example I cited above, which would seem (from what I'm reading here) to work similarly to how you're describing?
 

peakish

Member
Smooth scrolling is primarily used when using a trackpad. Instead of scrolling in "chunks", as when you hit up/down on your keyboard or move a scroll wheel one tick, you have pixel-perfect scrolling based on the exact amount of scrolling input.

It makes a huge amount of difference in user perception of the responsiveness of a system, even though it has no functional effect.
Gnome 3 has this, but only for their own software. No idea why it seems like such a big problem for, say, the browser developers to implement it.

As for appearance of GTK programs... I've raved a bit about the Gnome developers doing a good job with it. Nautilus and Epiphany look great in 3.6. There's inconsistency in other programs but I've mostly put it down to a larger amount of it being developed by enthusiasts for free for functionality rather than having designers spend time on them. Maybe it's down to the tools as well, I have no experience with that although now that you mention it there always seem to be criticism against those flying around.
 
When I hit page up and page down, my browser just instantly jumps? So I'm not sure what phenomenon you're describing.

about:config → general.smoothScroll

opera:config#UserPrefs|SmoothScrolling

chrome://flags/ → Smooth Scrolling → Enable

[Konqueror] Settings Menu → Configure Konqueror → Web Browsing → Appearance → General Tab → Smooth Scrolling → Always

[rekonq] Stupid Clicky Wrench Thing → configure rekonq → Advanced →Enable Smooth Scrolling (does not work on my machine for some dumb reason)


Depending on what browser you use, the above are where the settings are. The latter two may have web-based shortcuts to the settings, I but I don't know them. Arora doesn't seem to have the option.
 

zoku88

Member
So, backup solutions - what do you guys use?

I created a script that tars my stuff and scp's it to a backup server and have it submitted as a Cron job (01 01 * * mon /usr/local/bin/bkp-system.sh should mean it does this around midnight every monday, right?) but after doing that I've looked up some other solutions, including some that rsyncs differences. Not sure what I want ... No experience with anything like this so looking for options. Deja Dup seems interesting?

I use a modified version of this:
http://www.mikerubel.org/computers/rsync_snapshots/

I don't compress and use hardlinks since the size of the external I put all of this crap on is much much bigger than my /home, which is the only thing I bother backing up
 

peakish

Member
rsnapshot is pretty good if you don't want to make the script yourself

I use a modified version of this:
http://www.mikerubel.org/computers/rsync_snapshots/

I don't compress and use hardlinks since the size of the external I put all of this crap on is much much bigger than my /home, which is the only thing I bother backing up
Hmm, I'm thinking that one of these snapshot solutions should be good for my system files since they should rarely change particularly much and are small enough that bzipping shouldn't be too important.

For my work data I'll need to find something which compresses it though. I'll keep looking and thinking about what I need there.
 
After months of trying to get compositing to work properly outside of unity I have finally found the magic solution to all of life's problems.

Add:

CLUTTER_PAINT=disable-clipped-redraws:disable-culling

to:

/etc/environment

Goodbye constant tearing in games, I can't say I'll miss you.
 

Revoh

Member
I haven't touched a Linux system in almost 4 years. I learned my way into it using Slackware back in the day and that's the distro I'm using today (Slackware 14.0), I can't believe I remember how to install and configure almost everything by hand after all this time, feels good to be back man!
 
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