We've seen a small fragment, but it's probably still a shooter, yes.
Hard to say ANYTHING on Ai, level design, mission structure, etc based on this small clip.
It's a silly thing to say thus far.
-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Live Killzone: Shadow Fall demo with Jimmy Fallon tomorrow
- Thread starter shinobi602
- Start date
We've seen a small fragment, but it's probably still a shooter, yes.
Hard to say ANYTHING on Ai, level design, mission structure, etc based on this small clip.
It's a silly thing to say thus far.
Terrible playing lol, but the game looked really good, very smooth as well.
please, enlighten us, to you and everyone else, what would be the meaning of next gen gameplay? because i keep seeing people comments like, ohhhh, same gameplay with a different coat of paint, so what you do want? an fps with the chains of olympus? i mean if you're gonna criticize at least make it constructive criticism and give ideas, because to bitch and moan is very easy, the hard part is the to constructive
I bet Kojima Productions and Quantic Dream will do some cool things with it.
The consoles haven't even been released, give them some time.
There were a lot of major refinements and gameplay types that became possible this generation which weren't even hinted at when 360 first launched. You can't expect radical changes from everyone before these systems are even released.
Yup, it's a cool feature.
I love the concept with the Wii-mote but the speaker was of such poor quality that it was actually annoying to use (and I had all kinds of drop out problems too). The Wii U pad, however, sounds great and finally realizes the potential of this feature. Glad they've added it to the DS4 as well.
I remember a time when radical gameplay evolution was expected with any new platform.
Somewhere along the way we went astray...
That ended with PS2.
Diminishing returns!
In terms of new stuff I was hoping to see bullets injuring enemies and allies, also realistic reactions from allies like panic, confusion etc. I guess a more accurate reflection of a combat situation. Kind of glad they are including civilians this time round, that's a start, but I'm still skeptical about the game. The bit with the rope at the end is the same sort of nonsense we saw in KZ3 and have seen in other games. I didn't like the slow-mo part either, that is a game mechanic I wish would die.
You're right though there isn't much room when it comes to gameplay in a shooter. Would like to see the climbing ability be a feature of the game.
I think that's going to be the thing with this controller. Lots of people were saying it was ugly as sin and I thought that at first too but it's just got something where the more the look at it the more it starts looking quite good.
Why can't these 'gamers' actually play games? That was embarrassing.
What kind of radical gameplay evolution would you like to see?
their are little things that to us seem crazy. Like how it's not technically feasible to holster your gun in Mass Effect 3 due to memory constraints.
half my friends who own 360's, ps3s etc are fucking terrible. Look at many of the OTs on gaf where people get stuck or complain about "hard" sections that aren't actually hard at all. A lack of gamesense is common amongst gamers, even people who post on gaf. literally every video of gamegrumps is is 5 minutes of them fumbling about and ignoring ingame hints or using techniques or skills taught during the course of the games that they play.
I'm not trying to belittle anyone or be derogatory, but it's the impression i get.
Man, I appreciate fallon for doing this, but his continued insistence that he's a 'gamer' grows increasingly hollow with these demos - like it's painful to watch them.
Some nice new gameplay features shown here though: climbing and chain melee kills. And actually the level design was much more open than it initially seemed. That being said, I'd agree that in no way does this (at this point anyway) seem like a next gen leap gameplay wise. We haven't seen much though - let's wait and see.
To be fair man, launch titles are rarely generational innovators.
Some nice new gameplay features shown here though: climbing and chain melee kills. And actually the level design was much more open than it initially seemed. That being said, I'd agree that in no way does this (at this point anyway) seem like a next gen leap gameplay wise. We haven't seen much though - let's wait and see.
To be fair man, launch titles are rarely generational innovators.
First I have to say, that I don't believe Guerilla Games to be in a position to reinvent shooters. They've been doing the same thing for a decade now and they are good at what they do and Sony obviously wants to use their strength in pushing high fidelity graphics at this critical time.
But if you really are asking what I would like to see in next-gen shooters, then the answer is easy. To use the power to deliver something that can only be done with such power. The gameplay was identical to what we've seen on PS3. Interactive cut-scene - shoot dudes that pop from cover - interactive cut-scene. The bullet time looked completely tacked on...
It was only missing a turret section as a cherry on top :b
Maybe add a more realistic damage model to the enemies. Focus on developing the AI of enemies and your team. Create an enviroment that's something more than dudes in cover. Create inventive new weapons that can't be done on last gen machines (gravity gun anyone?)... all of these are not that hard to create besides the AI.
Of course we can't tell if the whole game follows this pattern, but if it does, I am genuinely disappointed even though this is a sequel. I'm so burned out of linear AAA games already.
Yes and no. Their SP has always been a visual spectacle above all.
KZ2 MP, however, was something special and reinvented the team objective gametypes into something that required a broader range of gameplay skills and strategising. Warzone utilised every inch of every map in the cycling of objectives and the spawn system was cause for shifting lines of battle where flanking was a real possibility and had real gains and advantages.
I'm guarded against hoping that they acknowledge the turd of KZ3 MP and use it as a basis of things to avoid when making the MP portion of KZ:SF.
Rest of your post I agree with 100%. No idea what happened to the hit-reaction tech they had in KZ2.
I think Jimmy and his guest failing was rehearsed. What better way to show people effectively that it was indeed live played? Same with his guest shouting "SHARE" when he was stuck looking at the ceiling, since that is precisely what Sony is aiming for with the share button, only online.
They didn't show the intro scene. Which was the most impressive part of the "demo", imo.
They toned down the blood /cry
I agree with you about the damage to enemies and AI but a gravity gun? That's not exactly evolutionary, that is ripping off HL2. Funny you mention cover though, Killzone was the only FPS to have a cover system. CoD didn't, Halo didn't.
Gravity gun was just an example of what innovation this genre can do man.
And yeah cover crept itself in every action game last gen... not gonna award too many innovation points on that one.
just watched the video. like really. that was terrible. can't tell of jimmy or anthony was goofing around but they act like they don't know how to control.
Wow this gif is amazing.
That controller looks so good, really improved upon the DS3, wow.
I think it's the most underwhelming gif of the game...
they were trying to crash the demo
Well you haven't really given any good examples of evolutionary gameplay besides better AI and guns that we've seen before and wouldn't really work in the context of a firefight. I understand your criticism, I agree with it, but you don't seem to have any concrete suggestions of what this evolutionary gameplay actually is. Could you give a scenario so I can get a better idea?
I have to say, that they can not play for shit... esp, Anthony who gave the vibe he had never used analog sticks before.
Pretty sure it will survive a few 1.5 to 3 ft drops. If you have carpet flooring then it's even higher and the controller won't scraped/scratched as well.
That looks beautiful and it highlights that animations were made with 30fps in mind playback in real time, and as such it pops from state to state.
Yes, I found that to be a lie, unless given that english is not his first language and that he had to come up with points quickly he wanted to say something else but that BS was blurted out instead. Then again there is this:
Precisely.
There are some hard truths here and few good suggestions. Given it's designed to be a launch title, I do not know how far they will stretch the damage modelling. Remember just how far we came this gen in terms of animation, physics etc. Pertaining to AI, I will say that KZ really does possess one of the better enemy AIs, friendly ones are okay and could definitely use an improvement. Given it is a cover based shooter, it relies on its environment for gameplay. And pertaining weapons, we already saw secondary fire mode but there is still we have yet to learn.
What I took away for the places to be improved are:
In addition I would love to see KZ finally move into genre amalgamation with the infusion of RPG elements (customization), branching paths (literally and through dialogues).
And finally, could we please have a story worthy of the universe of KZ?
Pretty sure it will survive a few 1.5 to 3 ft drops. If you have carpet flooring then it's even higher and the controller won't scraped/scratched as well.
That looks beautiful and it highlights that animations were made with 30fps in mind playback in real time, and as such it pops from state to state.
Yes, I found that to be a lie, unless given that english is not his first language and that he had to come up with points quickly he wanted to say something else but that BS was blurted out instead. Then again there is this:
Precisely.
There are some hard truths here and few good suggestions. Given it's designed to be a launch title, I do not know how far they will stretch the damage modelling. Remember just how far we came this gen in terms of animation, physics etc. Pertaining to AI, I will say that KZ really does possess one of the better enemy AIs, friendly ones are okay and could definitely use an improvement. Given it is a cover based shooter, it relies on its environment for gameplay. And pertaining weapons, we already saw secondary fire mode but there is still we have yet to learn.
What I took away for the places to be improved are:
- Shadow quality (for certain static objects)
- Animation quality (deficiency seen in slow-mo)
- Cloth physics (reactive in nature so as NOT to clip through things during canned/mo-capped animation). This particularly bothered me when I saw a solider's hand go right through his pouch as he saluted me and later the saboteur Helgast right hand did the same as he bent down to kill the player). I am hoping to see Apex clothing's implementation this gen.
In addition I would love to see KZ finally move into genre amalgamation with the infusion of RPG elements (customization), branching paths (literally and through dialogues).
And finally, could we please have a story worthy of the universe of KZ?
- Damn this game looks good. It's not a HUGE leap from current-gen, but it still impresses, and if you think back on how much better Uncharted 2 looked compared to the PS3's launch titles, I'd be very intrigued to see what Naughty Dog is capable of which the tech in 4 years time.
- The controller looks slick as hell. All those sweet little modifications, yet it retains that Dual Shock core.
- If that's the first time Jimmy held the new Dual Shock then I guess you can't blame him for displaying abysmal skills during his playtime. Then Anthony started playing and it became a wreck, lol.
- The controller looks slick as hell. All those sweet little modifications, yet it retains that Dual Shock core.
- If that's the first time Jimmy held the new Dual Shock then I guess you can't blame him for displaying abysmal skills during his playtime. Then Anthony started playing and it became a wreck, lol.
Didnt he say that it was something you couldnt do before? It's the truth, you cant go around climbing stuff on your own in previous games. That was the way I took it...not that PS3 couldnt do it.
The controller looked amazing btw. Finally good triggers and some mass to grab onto 
Well all possibilities are open really. We've just grown to accept certain type of SP gameplay in FPS games since CoD4. What did Mirrors Edge do with vertical gameplay and player movement? What did HL series achieve with physics based puzzles, gravity gun and storytelling from 1st person view. L4D brought dynamic mobs, true teamwork and player like enemies to the table. Halo tried to push the AI and bigger enviroments in SP campaigns... also brought vehicles back. Portal warped reality. Soldier of Fortune made violence truly nauseating...
Only the imagination is the limit really.
Well all possibilities are open really. We've just grown to accept certain type of SP gameplay in FPS games since CoD4. What did Mirrors Edge do with vertical gameplay and player movement? What did HL series achieve with physics based puzzles, gravity gun and storytelling from 1st person view. L4D brought dynamic mobs, true teamwork and player like enemies to the table. Halo tried to push the AI and bigger enviroments in SP campaigns... also brought vehicles back. Portal warped reality. Soldier of Fortune made violence truly nauseating...
Only the imagination is the limit really.
Well that's because it was designed that way because of partner in both KZ2 and 3. If I could climb over ledges on my own in Crysis 2 and 3, KZ would have easily done it. It was a design decision not a technical limitation which he made it out to be in that vid.
Isn't this an issue Valve is trying to solve. Notice the correlation from the PS2 till this gen when it comes to gameplay revolution:
Same controller, same core gameplay.
Nintendo had the proper mindset by they with a different ambition altogether. They innovated and managed to get the "non-gamer" to purchase the console due to it's application of the Wii-mote - it was simple, ergonomic and the application is almost universal across games. However, this comes with the cost of the "core" gameplay which placed itself in a different direction rather than evolving it.
Regardless, you are only limited to what your controller is given. So, it's no surprise why Killzone played the way it was even if it tried. Instead, AI routines, dynamic physics and animations are the only things left to improve upon from last gen. You will always be over-the-shoulder in 3rd person games and always move like COD on a first-person game. Nothing more, nothing less. The ergonomics of the controller simply will not allow to go beyond that.
If we could design a controller than can do the things Heavy Rain does WITHOUT the CONTEXT buttons overlaying on-screen. That IMO would be a revolutionary step because it is the only game I know of that controls both the characters hands and interact differently on context. Sadly, that is limited only to where the context allows it to be, but to dynamically control a character like that on natural input alone would be a dramatic step forward, practically ENDING QTE's forever.
Could've been rehearsed for comedic effect. Maybe he was thrown by the controls being inverted and took a few moments to adjust. Maybe he's just rubbish at games.
DualShock 4, I love you.
Awesome avatar, btw.
Exactly!
The controller looked amazing btw. Finally good triggers and some mass to grab onto
Well all possibilities are open really. We've just grown to accept certain type of SP gameplay in FPS games since CoD4. What did Mirrors Edge do with vertical gameplay and player movement? What did HL series achieve with physics based puzzles, gravity gun and storytelling from 1st person view. L4D brought dynamic mobs, true teamwork and player like enemies to the table. Halo tried to push the AI and bigger enviroments in SP campaigns... also brought vehicles back. Portal warped reality. Soldier of Fortune made violence truly nauseating...
Only the imagination is the limit really.
You are just citing stuff that has already been done. I mean you could easily throw Killzone in there with its dynamic MP game modes, first person cover system, mechs and jetpacks etc. You haven't actually given an example of the evolutionary gameplay you'd like to see that has not been done before.
Yes, I know....
I dont think he was trying to make it seem like a technical limitation. It was just bad timing on the question. Seemed like he just wanted to point out some new stuff as the demo was going. He didnt say we couldnt do this before on PS3, he said it's something that you couldnt do in Killzone before.
It's worked for Nintendo for 18 years now.
What better way to show off your game to the world than looking at the ceiling for 20 seconds. No, I think they just suck at games. They also started it where they did because they wanted to show off the most impressive part which was flying through the city hanging on a rope. That part got cut off thanks to 45 seconds of "comic relief".
Jimmy: Can I play!? Can I play!? CAN I PLAY!!??
Lead designer: "Fine Jimmy you can try it".
Lead designer: "Jesus Christ he sucks! This is getting bad. Maybe the other guy can do better and show off some cool moments to get people hyped about the PS4 and Killzone"
Lead designer: "Hey Jimmy. Say, buddy, why don't you hand the sticks over to Anthony, y'know...share
"Lead designer: "OH GOD THIS GUY IS EVEN WORSE!!! DEBUT RUINED!!"
*Hands it back to guy who can aim straight with highlight about to happen*
Jimmy: "Commercial break! See you guys later K thanks bye!"
I gave you an example of what I've felt has been evolutionary gameplay. Do you expect me to come up with improvements to their game on the spot? They'd just hire me :b
Come on Derrick, that's just stupid even coming from you.
Out of curiousity, how do you make a FPS with different gameplay? Its been the same concept since the early 90s.
Those triggers on the Dual Shock look so good. I hope I'll be able to use it in Windows.
That was super awkward to watch, it just looked like a forced ad.
Edit: so funny that Jimmy can't even do basic FPS controls, you'd think they'd walk him through it so he doesnt make the game look bad.
That was super awkward to watch, it just looked like a forced ad.
Edit: so funny that Jimmy can't even do basic FPS controls, you'd think they'd walk him through it so he doesnt make the game look bad.