Support NeoGAF

[LookAtMeGo]

Exactly. Its like if a girl gets raped is her fault for looking too sexy. Common sense.

Wat?

 

[ShadowElliot]

How many months of downtime will we have to endure before we can ask for compensation?

Many months, and we'll probably get to choose between the Order and LBP themes for free ($1.99 value).

 

[Marvel]

And we're back to rape again.

 

[Caja 117]

So it specifically states that in the event of a network attack no compensation will be given? Because I'd like to see that.

http://legaldoc.dl.playstation.net/ps3-eula/psn/u/u_tosua_en.html

"No warranty is given about the quality, functionality, availability or performance of SEN First Party Services, or any content or service offered on or through SEN First Party Services. All services and content are provided "AS IS" and "AS AVAILABLE" with all faults. SNEI does not warrant that the service and content will be uninterrupted, error-free or without delays."

Do you think a company that has a product that heavely relies on a internet service isnt going to have its term of service made so they cant be liable for anything if such service has a prolonged interruption?

 

[gregor7777]

But if you just want to sit here and bang rocks together screaming for a chocolate milk, go ahead.

Do the rocks have DRM?

 

[Daffy Duck]

They really are going for biggest douche bags of 2014 aren't they.

Shits old now.

 

[wowzors]

These guys are doing a better job than the government ever could at shutting themselves down. Anonymous relies on people to back and support them yet they constantly harass citizens. They are just eating away at anyone who believed their cause.

 

[Hidden One]

Exactly. Its like if a girl gets raped is her fault for looking too sexy. Common sense.

 

[Copen]

Read the TOS, before posting something like this.

And it would behoove you to do the same. I didn't read anything that stated in the event of a network attack no compensation would be given. Unless it says that which nothing I read said that then you're out of line. Look I'm not looking for compensation but to blindly say after 3 days and not looking any better that as paying customers were not entitled to compensation for down time seems unreasonable.

 

[psn]

Like I said if this goes on into tomorrow evening I'll be looking to sell my PS4 and all it's games and getting an Xbox 1. A PS4 will be purchased down the line when it's cheaper.

So now we buy the console that gets less attacked by immature kids?

 

[CambriaRising]

Both cost the same price (at least here). One doesn't work as often as the other thats all that matters to end user.

I don't understand how that is a valid argument against being educated about the reasons why one company is in a position to handle a large scale DDOS attack better than the other.

Do the rocks have DRM?

SecuROC

 

[Rebel Leader]

And we're back to rape again.

 

[cyberheater]

Especially when this has absolutely nothing to do with security...

Then how can they combat it?

 

[SDCowboy]

This is a weak analogy. A service provider is the ones that need to ensure that their services are running, but they cannot be expected to work no matter what, which is what's being implied, here. A service provider should always go as far as they can to ensure service is guaranteed, but at a point, the cost of 'ensuring' that goes up exponentially compared to its result. As such, you would not be able to pay for their services to always be online, nor should you. Sony can of course not pull money out of its own ass, so they don't have unlimited resources. As such, some discretion should be used in discerning such cases. This is clearly a case of borderline, since there might be ways to deal with this attack faster. Likely that will come into place after this.

I'm not saying their service should be flawless and never go down. Just that removing any blame from the service provider in this situation is ridiculous. Their system should be far more resilient than this in these types of situations. From the consumer standpoint, it doesn't matter why PSN isn't up. Just that it isn't.

 

[gregor7777]

I don't understand how that is a valid argument against being educated about the reasons why one company is in a position to handle a large scale DDOS attack better than the other.

No one is making that argument. We're saying the end results are all that matter. You're essentially arguing with yourself about chocolate milk.

 

[Night Angel]

Then how can they combat it?

That's the million dollar question. Solve that and you won't need to work ever again.

 

[Acorn]

I don't understand how that is a valid argument against being educated about the reasons why one company is in a position to handle a large scale DDOS attack better than the other.



SecuROC

No one is making that argument. We're saying the end results are all that matter. You're essentially arguing with yourself about chocolate milk.

Bingo

 

[Septimius]

How many months of downtime will we have to endure before we can ask for compensation?

We got compensated last time. Why? Because a security flaw forced Sony to shut off their services for a long time. This time, it's not a security flaw. At best it is a flaw in their infrastructure, but it is still a complex thing to prevent and to fend off. As such, Sony can't be held responsible in the same way as last time, when we were compensated.

 

[LookAtMeGo]

At this point I just hope that the flash sale get extended vecause I want the DA:I special edition for $50.

So is the ps store up yet on PS4 or website store?

i heard that a few select have gotten in

Not for me. I keep trying to get in and grab DA:I.

 

[Laws00]

So is the ps store up yet on PS4 or website store?

i heard that a few select have gotten in

 

[CosmicQueso]

Wow that is a complete shit analogy.

It was a complete shit analogy when it was first brought up about 6 or so hours ago. The circle is complete, the new circle begins. Have we had a Hitler analogy yet?

 

[DudeWithNoName]

So now we buy the console that gets less attacked by immature kids?

No, they both get attacked. However, one had a robust enough infrastructure to better withstand the attacks.

 

[CREMSteve]

Sigh.

@CRUCIFIXSQUAD: MAKE A DEAL 18.3K AND WE WILL LET YOU GUYS SIGN IN AND GET DESTINY, GTAV, AW AND FAR CRY 4 FOR FREE SO RETWEET THIS AND KEEP FOLLOWING US!

 

[Nokterian]

It was a complete shit analogy when it was first brought up about 6 or so hours ago. The circle is complete, the new circle begins. Have we had a Hitler analogy yet?

Not yet but waiting for that moment to come. The circle goes round and round.

Oh jezus christ there still hitting on PSN i see on there twitter...pathetic.

 

[PodcastFips]

Then how can they combat it?

By increasing their bandwidth (simply said: by adding lots and lots of new servers to their infrastructure) or inventing a new internet.

 

[cyberheater]

That's the million dollar question. Solve that and you won't need to work ever again.

Oh, it's one of those types of problem. Good luck Sony.

 

[SDCowboy]

It was a complete shit analogy when it was first brought up about 6 or so hours ago. The circle is complete, the new circle begins. Have we had a Hitler analogy yet?

It was mentioned before? Yikes.

 

[Boke1879]

So now we buy the console that gets less attacked by immature kids?

PSN has had it's fair share of problems even without this attack. And there is no proof that an attack is even still going on. PSN is just down. Shouldn't take this long to get back up.

I understand something like this is magnified because it's the holiday and people have time off but like I said this is hardly the first time PSN has had issues even on its own.

I can promise you this is what people are talking about. I'm sure this has made people either return their console or decide to not buy one at all. This his hit the news. People know about it.

Yes if this continues into tomorrow evening with no significant update I'll be looking into an Xbox One and giving Live my money. It seems they are better equipped to deal with this situation and you're paying the same amount of money.

 

[Copen]

This is a weak analogy. A service provider is the ones that need to ensure that their services are running, but they cannot be expected to work no matter what, which is what's being implied, here. A service provider should always go as far as they can to ensure service is guaranteed, but at a point, the cost of 'ensuring' that goes up exponentially compared to its result. As such, you would not be able to pay for their services to always be online, nor should you. Sony can of course not pull money out of its own ass, so they don't have unlimited resources. As such, some discretion should be used in discerning such cases. This is clearly a case of borderline, since there might be ways to deal with this attack faster. Likely that will come into place after this.

It's 10 years since the tsunami in Asia. There were many places and structures that weren't prepared then that are better suited and prepared now. This applies for all such things. You can never block off all contingencies. After something has happened is when that part will be strengthened.



The nature of DDOS makes it hard to be "better prepared". This isn't really a security thing, though.



This is old data and is debunked.



No one said that. Their terms state that their services might be down. They are.

Okay buddy so IF PSN NEVER comes back online nobody has any right to a refund or compensation of any kind because according to you no matter what the cause or reason IF it's down Sony isn't responsible to their customers at all or to be held accountable AT ALL because the TOS says so? You are being completely unrealistic if that's the line you're going to stick to.

 

[Acorn]

Sigh.

That twitter is fake.

Lizard mafia is the real óne.

 

[elco]

I understand the silence at the moment, but I will lose a bit of faith if they attempt to just sweep this under the rug. Many other large organizations would release some sort of report detailing either what happened and/or how it will be handled better in the future. I seem to recall reddit being DDoS'd a year or two ago, and them writing about it in their blog. I would imagine if somebody like netflix went down for 3 days, there would be more than some tweets saying "we have received reports of..." Maybe Sony is a bit too corporatey for something like that, but I think transparency is warranted about now.

BTW, someone resurrect GameSpy, let's take this back to p2p

 

[the_id]

I'm managing to connect to PSN.
But I can't access the PS store.

Fuck you Lizard Squad!

 

[LapinAgile]

Exactly. Its like if a girl gets raped is her fault for looking too sexy. Common sense.

Spoiler

As if this needs to be said, this is sarcasm.

Also a dumb thing to say... as if that needed to be said.

I hope this ends soon, I'd say they proved their point but they don't have one.

 

[ph33nix]

I get that this might not be totally Sony's fault but I don't understand how some of you are giving them a pass.

When I paid for it I understood that it would go down sometimes. Not for 3 days straight. It's OK to demand what you paid for and expect.

 

[Septimius]

I'm not saying their service should be flawless and never go down. Just that removing any blame from the service provider in this situation is ridiculous. Their system should be far more resilient than this in these types of situations.

You're completely contradicting yourself. You're saying it's OK for some contingencies not to be accounted for, but at the same time, it's not OK. What.

I work with networking. I deal with DDOSes. You can't just "fix it". This is nothing Sony can be held responsible for. What you're saying is that they should have an internet connection that is bigger than all other internet connections in the world. Combined. Because that's how you completely eliminate DDOS. When no one has the capacity to fill up your links, you can't be DDOSed. But that can't happen. So it won't happen. The internet will always be prone to DDOS, just like a highway will get congested if someone has an accident. Yelling "it shouldn't" doesn't change anything.

 

[CambriaRising]

No one is making that argument. We're saying the end results are all that matter. You're essentially arguing with yourself about chocolate milk.

*sigh* What I originally responded to.

Try to follow along.

If one company can fix their shit within hours, one should be able to expect a similar response from Sony. Basically WTF Sony.

All things being equal, sure.

But they aren't, by a long shot.

The notion that MS and Sony are on equal footing, and should be expected to react similarly to an attack like this. They just aren't, and as such you cannot have that expectation if you are educated on the (very large) differences in capabilities. You no doubt are. Little Greger isn't, but you could certainly explain it to him.

Take your own advice, and try to follow along.

 

[EscoBlades]

Watching this just gives them the attention they want :/

Plus it is Keemstar. Couldn't pay me to watch that.

 

[Copen]

How many months of downtime will we have to endure before we can ask for compensation?

Apparently to some NEVER....Because the TOS states there may be down time with the service so apparently they NEVER have to put PSN back up and as paying customers were not entitled to ANY compensation. Like do people even think about shit before they write it i mean how fucking ridiculous does that sound?

 

[enzo_gt]

No one is making that argument. We're saying the end results are all that matter. You're essentially arguing with yourself about chocolate milk.

Yup.

This is just compounding my distaste for PSN. Moving from 360 to PS4 has been a terrible downgrade in pretty much all aspects of my online experience. Shit is always down or slow regularly (and when it's DDoS'd, it takes much longer to come back up). Years of people praising this service and when I get on it can't get the basics right.

 

[LookAtMeGo]

I get that this might not be totally Sony's fault but I don't understand how some of you are giving them a pass.

When I paid for it I understood that it would go down sometimes. Not for 3 days straight. It's OK to demand what you paid for and expect.

Being a PSN user since it began I guess I just have thick skin. Its annoying as fuck but its not the apocalypse.

 

[Live Free or Die]

Especially when this has absolutely nothing to do with security...

.

 

[Mik317]

Apparently to some NEVER....Because the TOS states there may be down time with the service so apparently they NEVER have to put PSN back up and as paying customers were not entitled to ANY compensation. Like do people even think about shit before they write it i mean how fucking ridiculous does that sound?

That is literally why TOSs exist tho.

Doesn't make it fair or right but that is what the TOS is for. To cover their ass in situations like this.

 

[gregor7777]

*sigh* What I originally responded to.





The notion that MS and Sony are on equal footing, and should be expected to react similarly to an attack like this. They just aren't, and as such you cannot have that expectation if you are educated on the (very large) differences in capabilities. You no doubt are. Little Greger isn't, but you could certainly explain it to him.

Take your own advice, and try to follow along.

<------ I was Little Gregor in that example sir. Ahem.

My point remains. What you're arguing here (alone) is that there are different circumstances and that we should not hold both services to the same standard because we don't know all the details.

I'm saying: I don't care. I want my PSN and clearly Sony doesn't know how to give it to me.

 

[Caja 117]

And it would behoove you to do the same. I didn't read anything that stated in the event of a network attack no compensation would be given. Unless it says that which nothing I read said that then you're out of line. Look I'm not looking for compensation but to blindly say after 3 days and not looking any better that as paying customers were not entitled to compensation for down time seems unreasonable.

Read my post that I just quoted you , Sony isnt liable when something like this Happens, They are not obligated to compensate anyone. They can choose to as a Thank you to the customer, but they are not in any obligation to do it.

You are talking about a Network that had a serious Hack some years ago, and back then they updated their TOS to protect themselves legally. Tech pages have this article, look it up.

 

[BronsonLee]

And we're back to rape again.

DON'T CALL IT A COMEBACK

Spoiler

What the fuck, people

 

[Lakerchick4life]

It's working perfectly on my side. Best way to know is by checking it out yourself.

The Xbox Live Status page is normally pretty accurate.

Problems are shown with mostly a 30 min delay after they occur.

Seeing this on XBOX LIVE SERVICE STATUS

Social and Gaming Limited

does that mean its back to being down again..UGH..and my controller just finished charging too..since this is my first time even turning on the XBOX ONE I obviously dont want any problems

 

[CambriaRising]

You're completely contradicting yourself. You're saying it's OK for some contingencies not to be accounted for, but at the same time, it's not OK. What.

I work with networking. I deal with DDOSes. You can't just "fix it". This is nothing Sony can be held responsible for. What you're saying is that they should have an internet connection that is bigger than all other internet connections in the world. Combined. Because that's how you completely eliminate DDOS. When no one has the capacity to fill up your links, you can't be DDOSed. But that can't happen. So it won't happen. The internet will always be prone to DDOS, just like a highway will get congested if someone has an accident. Yelling "it shouldn't" doesn't change anything.

It is absurd how much this needs to be explained to people. As recent as the last page we still have people thinking this was a security issue.

<------ I was Little Gregor in that example sir. Ahem.

My point remains. What you're arguing here (alone) is that there are different circumstances and that we should not hold both services to the same standard because we don't know all the details.

I'm saying: I don't care. I want my PSN and clearly Sony doesn't know how to give it to me.

I didn't make the link, my apologies.

It's not like I can blame you for being upset. And yeah, given the information on both companies I am saying you can't hold them to the same standard when it comes to this. There is no equal footing there. If you know there they aren't, and cannot be equal on that side of things, then you can't have the same expectations. If you do, then you are being irrational. I'm upset that I can't get on right now either, but throwing a fit about it isn't the right way of expressing that.

 

[Septimius]

Apparently to some NEVER....Because the TOS states there may be down time with the service so apparently they NEVER have to put PSN back up and as paying customers were not entitled to ANY compensation. Like do people even think about shit before they write it i mean how fucking ridiculous does that sound?

Hahaha. Wow. You're being utterly silly, now.

Okay buddy so IF PSN NEVER comes back online nobody has any right to a refund or compensation of any kind because according to you no matter what the cause or reason IF it's down Sony isn't responsible to their customers at all or to be held accountable AT ALL because the TOS says so? You are being completely unrealistic if that's the line you're going to stick to.

This has NOTHING to do with "always". This has to do with now. What's going on now is not something that can be upheld indefinitely. Even if it's just one guy manually entering IPs to block, the attack will slowly die. All of the world's botnet won't be able to grow fast enough to uphold it indefinitely. The TOS state that the service may be down. They are down. That's what I've said. That's what happened. If this had PSN go down forever, I'd expect people to get their PSN+ time back, and be compensated for their digital downloads. But that's a completely different matter. It has nothing to do with anything I've said.

Trying to reduce my argument to the absurd isn't doing anyone any favors. We're trying to understand what this attack is, and what we should hold Sony accountable for.

 

[Copen]

http://legaldoc.dl.playstation.net/ps3-eula/psn/u/u_tosua_en.html

"No warranty is given about the quality, functionality, availability or performance of SEN First Party Services, or any content or service offered on or through SEN First Party Services. All services and content are provided "AS IS" and "AS AVAILABLE" with all faults. SNEI does not warrant that the service and content will be uninterrupted, error-free or without delays."

Do you think a company that has a product that heavely relies on a internet service isnt going to have its term of service made so they cant be liable for anything if such service has a prolonged interruption?

You're crazy if you truly believe they can't or won't be held accountable legally even in the event that PSN never comes back up. It can say whatever they want it to say and it doesn't matter legally they will be held accountable and probably sued over this the longer it stays down the worse it gets for Sony.

 

[ThatGuyAgain]

Please Sony hurry up and fix this before the rape analogy comes up again. TIA