That's right! I mean I'm a pretty good driver. Nothing to worry about!
Seriously though, this kid should consider himself lucky that he's not facing extradition to the US. If someone ended up getting hurt he probably would be.
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Lizard Squad member convicted for Christmas attacks on PSN, Xbox Live
- Thread starter Pathfinder
- Start date
That's right! I mean I'm a pretty good driver. Nothing to worry about!
Seriously though, this kid should consider himself lucky that he's not facing extradition to the US. If someone ended up getting hurt he probably would be.
That method has never deterred people for committing crime ever, in the history of mankind. So using that as a precedent is just foolish beyond measure.There was also a case from Feb of this year, where he was jailed for computer related offenses, and swatting was never even a charge against him, mostly because It's a very hard thing to prove.
Alabamaman
Banned
Ironically if you kill someone while drunk driving in Finland you get about the same sentence as this kid.
Depraved indifference. If someone dies during an act of knowingly endangering someone's life, it's treated as murder.
See above. SWATing is a premeditated act of sending a heavily armed force into a person's home while giving them the impression that the target is hostile, murderous, unstable, and willing to kill on sight.
If you're a computer proficient asshole thousands of miles away on another continent, it's one of the only means to end someone's life, or at best, just ruin it. It needs to be dealt with as harshly as depraved indifference crimes since it is one.
So what deters people from speeding? I can assure you that for most people the first thing that comes to mind is "I don't want to be fined" and not "I don't want to get in an accident." If there are real consequences for SWATing and if we can find a way to make it easier to track and prove who committed those crimes, less people would do it. The only reason people do it is because they think they won't be caught. I don't own any illegal weapons because I don't want to spend ten years in prison if I'm caught. Jail might not be a deterrent to everyone, but it is for most people.
The point is SWATing is very dangerous, just like other things that carry harsh penalties. It's not something that should be ignored, otherwise it will just continue.
We're going round in circles again. No crime = no charge, its as simple as that.
Pathfinder
Member
I think what we're getting at is that swatting should be considered a major crime, and treated as such.
CosmicQueso
Member
Ahh yes, let's continue to worry about his life, and not those other lives he's ruined. He's the real victim.
You really don't see how the eagerness to use lethal force by the law enforcement might be the problem here? Finland applied Finnish law in its jurisdiction, still don't see the problem.
So a police raid ruined her life? Two wrongs don't make a right, plus that again seems like a problem with the police.
The SWAT teams in the US don't gun down people unless someone is shooting back at them. Which has happened in a Swatting case:
http://kfor.com/2015/01/20/arrest-made-in-connection-to-oklahoma-bomb-threat/
That said, they should probably give perps a chance to surrender before kicking down doors.
You do not understand the justice system.
What you're saying is tantamount to "no harm, no foul." By your logic, anyone who tries to do evil but fails is off the hook. Governments around the world, not just America's, recognize the need to prevent and reduce "theoretical" crimes as you call them.
Robdraggoo
Member
His punishment should be to listen to the cries of children for the same straight time period of the attack. was about 3 days for me. Should suffice.
O.v.e.rlord
Banned
Going to disagree with that. SWATing costs departments A LOT OF MONEY! There is a crime here and that being false reporting. It doesn't matter if there was no lose of life. If a person is reporting a crime that isn't actually happening then that person should be held accountable. 2 years is no where near enough time for all the damage this person has caused.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
They can't trace phone calls in Finland?
Pathfinder
Member
Heh, they can barely trace phone calls in the US... There are so many ways to avoid getting caught via a phone trace if you know what you're doing. Our phone system is so antiquated, and the Internet makes it even easier.
Akhe
Member
Wait until he met the Brazilian justice system = D
AmaterasuOni
Banned
They do that, but 90% on drug related crimes.
It's not like it was a real crime.
Bond007
Member
Its just video games at the end of the day. He was way wrong in doing it and hopefully thru this process he learned his lesson.
Prison time with murderers and the like for something like this? nah
This just my 2cents anyway.
I was deployed during this time.....so i really didn't feel it. lol
Prison time with murderers and the like for something like this? nah
This just my 2cents anyway.
I was deployed during this time.....so i really didn't feel it. lol
The intention of SWATing is to send a team of fully armed, potentially trigger happy, cops bursting through the door of a victim's house, with the SWAT team fully expectating that the victim is armed and dangerous. If they weren't trying to get SWAT teams called in, they wouldn't call it SWATing. They have a pretty good idea how dangerous it is, and that's why they do it.
The fact that Finnish law enforcement has different protocols is entirely irrelevant. The crime is the potential (and inent) to cause harm from an extremely dangerous activity. If the activity might have been less dangerous in an different setting does not matter.
But hey, as long is it happens to citizens in a different country, I guess it's okay. It was their fault for living in a country with cops with a history of violence.
artsi
Member
It didn't, as was said many times, but people don't seem to understand.
If he's guilty of swatting he'll be charged for that too, but this trial was not about that.
Pathfinder
Member
It's not that they don't understand. It's just that some are downplaying the crimes that he did commit as being harmless child pranks, which they aren't.
Tumle
Member
i am wherry sad to see this middle age mentality..
Thought we as a species had learned, but no.. Apparently the only way justice can be served is with cold hard vengeance..
Locking people up with out any kind of rehabilitation will only prospone the problem..
And then some one thinks that cutting off heads, is the only solution to crime.. I don't know what to say.. I'm stunned
Thought we as a species had learned, but no.. Apparently the only way justice can be served is with cold hard vengeance..
Locking people up with out any kind of rehabilitation will only prospone the problem..
And then some one thinks that cutting off heads, is the only solution to crime.. I don't know what to say.. I'm stunned
If only US law was applied universally, what a wonderful world we'd live in.
Haha are you seriousi am wherry sad to see this middle age mentality..
Thought we as a species had learned, but no.. Apparently the only way justice can be served is with cold hard vengeance..
Locking people up with out any kind of rehabilitation will only prospone the problem..
And then some one thinks that cutting off heads, is the only solution to crime.. I don't know what to say.. I'm stunned
6 months in prison would have been enough. This sentence is essentially nothing. It appears no court in the world is able to deal with anything involving the internet in a remotely competent capacity. These kids know this, that's why they get away with it.
Gravy Boat
Member
Are we back to ignoring the fact that swatting and the XBL/PSN Xmas attacks aren't something he's been charged with? At least not yet anyway.
Seriously, can this be added to the OP or the title of the thread or something? 10 pages of people arguing this one point because nobody actually seems to understand what he was charged with.
He hasn't gotten away with anything. He'll be under strict monitoring for the next year and a bit. Any evidence that he's involved with anything like this and he'll be straight to prison for 2 years. It's hardly like he's a free kid to go and DDOS and Swat to his hearts content. Besides, he's a minor on a first offence, and the crimes he has currently been charged with are hardly anything serious.
Seriously, can this be added to the OP or the title of the thread or something? 10 pages of people arguing this one point because nobody actually seems to understand what he was charged with.
He hasn't gotten away with anything. He'll be under strict monitoring for the next year and a bit. Any evidence that he's involved with anything like this and he'll be straight to prison for 2 years. It's hardly like he's a free kid to go and DDOS and Swat to his hearts content. Besides, he's a minor on a first offence, and the crimes he has currently been charged with are hardly anything serious.
So I can't be for the death penalty as punishment for a mass murderer and for rehabilitation for an obviously mentally disturbed kid? Can you only be far left or far right politically as well? Is it a sign of lack of confidence and confusion when someone has different views on unique situations rather than throwing a blanket over it?
Every death penalty article you link deals only with homicides, which it is not an effective deterrent because when someone is far gone enough to either not care about the punishment or accepts it then nothing is gonna deter them. Not like these guys committed to following through with a murder call some friends and discuss if shooting up a place is worth it because they might spend life in prison or get the death penalty. These people have already left the rational mode of thinking.
Now whether you agree morally with it or not it has proven to some extent to be an effective deterrent in other classes of crime. Asia has very strict and sometimes mandatory death penalty for firearm possession, drugs with intent to sell, or white collar crimes and what you see is an overall lower rate for crimes associated with those offenses across almost the entire region. Personally I think its way to harsh but at the same time I can look at the number and say it is at least somewhat effective.
You seem to only have weak arguments that you continually repeat for your "rational and factual view" of things. You are simply regurgitating everything you have heard about the broken US situation as the only metric to compare against while ignoring and questioning numbers from everywhere else because its painting a different picture than the one you want.
So in the end all you have is purely your opinion which you present as a fact because you disregard all other variables that need to be accounted for to draw a true factual conclusion.
Anyway this will be my last reply here since I think this is far more political than I should be on a forum for video games. I feel I gave enough information to challenge these "facts" presented here to show the situation can't be dumbed down to just 1 aspect without coming across like an antivaxxer.
Maybe we could have some of the forum members in this thread reach out to him to explain that he's only a kid-and his brain is still forming.
Gravy Boat
Member
Maybe someone could reach out to you to read the OP and understand that he hasn't yet been on trial for that specific incident.
What does that have to do with my statement? There are people in this thread stating that as a teenager, any acts he took action with must be judged with the understanding that his brain is still forming. These are their words-not mine.
It's a broad excuse that could be used for ANY of the trials he will be part of.
Mister Megative
Banned
Apparently the kid DiD serve some prison time and got his ass kicked, according to Smedley (which makes me smile). Also according to Smed, he has more court dates coming and Smed himself is going after him.
Good. This idiot could have gotten people killed. He needs to sit in prison, and a message needs to be sent.
Good. This idiot could have gotten people killed. He needs to sit in prison, and a message needs to be sent.
Gravy Boat
Member
Because you seem to be running with it and using it as a sarcastic response anytime anyone mentions the sentencing not being harsh enough, even though I haven't seen anyone say what you're talking about for several pages.
Please actually read the OP
Keihart
Member
A hangmen tree would be alright, or burn on the stake. Those are like official methods.
Because it's a completely stupid fucking rebuttal that deserves to be mocked so that no one attempts to use it again.
Gravy Boat
Member
Let it go, it's been several pages.
Nothing happened? Nothing except traumatizing people with US SWAT teams. If you don't think people were hurt in some capacity you're wrong. SWATing also easily falls under the definition of Assault for most of the world and someone could and should charge him with such. Make no mistake, this piece of shit hurt people with his actions one way or another and SWATing with US cops should also be considered Attempted Murder. If I was a DA where it happened I would extradite this piece of shit and find a way to charge him with it.
VibratingDonkey
Member
Yeah I don't know what charges could be brought, but certainly there are some that would stick. As a baseline you're calling in a false alarm and are obliged to pay for the dispatch+fine. And there should be no doubt that it is a serious crime. You're causing people emotional duress and trauma, endangering them, putting them at risk of bodily harm, health situations, property damage, pets getting shot, people getting shot... I'm not sure what you define that as in legal terms, but it's certainly not "eh, no one got hurt this time".Swatting sends these people to your home. At this point they believe you have either already done great bodily harm to others, or are about to. How can you defend someone who does this?
Anyway, apparently there's still 15 cases against him, I don't know exactly what charges were included in this initial sentencing. I'll say that based on the crimes I currently know he had a hand in, while I'm not sure what would be just consequences to them, we're not there yet.
Slightly off topic since he is not currently being charged with Swatting but if anyone is interested.
Here is a interesting Vice News video about Swatting:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ziLjOPCQwg
Here is a interesting Vice News video about Swatting:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ziLjOPCQwg
Tumle
Member
Never Said he didn't deserve jail time.. But some of these post in here are not talking about justice but about revenge..
I fully understand that victims are erm.. the victims, and not the perpetrator.. But just sending someone to prison will not stop him from hurting anybody else down the line when he gets back out.
I just think some people have a wherry narrow view of things in this thread, and don't understand that physical punishment has never deterred anyone from committing crime.
And as others have said his court days are not over so put your torches out for now. And as you know he's on probation soo, maybe if he gets prosecuted in these next trials he will serve his time.. But I just hope he also gets psychological help with his problem so he doesn't just do the same when he gets out. Because it's not a normal sane behavior to do what he has done
UltraGunner
Banned
Swatting really should be treated as attempted murder, since that's basically what it entails when you sic the American Swat teams on people.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
It's conflicting. You understand rehabilitation is the best method but still in some form champion punishment. It comes off as dishonest in the same manner of, "Oh yeah, X totally exists and works... but my idea is to do the exact opposite." It's not about blankets but about consistency. It's amorphous logic at its finest.
Do you have any studies to support your theory?
Asia is a different climate altogether. They're not open with their books. You can only study what's released. We also have things like Japan having a very high arrest rate all because the person says, "I did it" and they're basically free to go. It's very easy to look at some Asian countries from afar and say, "Yes, they're crime rate is low-very low reported crime," and not dig deeper. You also have different categories of crimes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_China
I think this is what you're doing. You've decided to take high punishment as truth without questioning it. Let's look at your Singapore example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Singapore
There's nothing there. For a modern place like Singapore there's very little regarding how things are done, so much that even Wikipedia can't get more than a paragraph. It has as much information about crime as Uzbekistan. It's not conclusive but it demonstrates how much readily available knowledge there is about how they operate.
Outside of Singapore and it's questionable handling of affairs, I've cited sources where it shows the death penalty is not a deterrent. Punishment isn't a deterrent. You have yet to prove these things with even a study--you've shown me Singapore and you have extrapolated from there but that is it. You have failed to properly support your argument.
I guess I'm an antivaxxer then.
*shrugs*
SmoothRunningGun
Member
Nice slap on the wrist. These guys will definitely keep doing this.
Scientist Supreme!
Banned
They would have done it anyway.
Pretty sure there's still a chance of a more severe punishment. As I've understood it, there are still charges against him that haven't been ruled on yet?
I can't seem to get a clear answer on it, but that's what I keep seeing mentioned. If so, there's a chance the more severe crimes weren't included in those 50K+ charges.
I can't seem to get a clear answer on it, but that's what I keep seeing mentioned. If so, there's a chance the more severe crimes weren't included in those 50K+ charges.
Pathfinder
Member
That is what I've been told, yes.
there is just so much wrong with this post that I don't even know where to begin.
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