• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

London teen first Brit found guilty of trying to join banned PKK

Status
Not open for further replies.
I'd take a wild guess that she's the first person outside of Turkey to be arrested for PKK activity. A surprisingly pleasant precedent. It's good to have consistency on all forms of terror, Islamist terror isn't the only terror.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-34884623

_86801197_86801196.jpg


A teenager has become the first Briton to be found guilty of trying to join the Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK).

Sihan Ozcelik, 18, from Holloway, had been accused of attempting to join the banned guerrilla group in 2014, but claimed she had travelled to see a man who she was in a relationship with.

She was found guilty of engaging in conduct in preparation for terrorist acts and jailed for 21 months.

The judge at the Old Bailey described her as being "deeply dishonest".

'I have become a militant'

The court heard Ozcelik left Britain on the Eurostar in October 2014 and was arrested in January after getting off a flight from Germany at Stansted airport.
Upon her departure she had left letters and a video telling her family she had gone off to fight with the PKK, the jury heard.

In one letter she had written: "Believe me, this is the right thing for me to do. I am so happy right now that I have become a militant."

However, when giving evidence the teenager denied the charges, saying the real reason for the trip was because she was going off with a boy.

She said she had lied because such actions were "really shameful in our community".
Sentencing Judge, John Bevan QC, said she was a "stupid" and "feckless" young woman who had "lied to your family and this jury."

Cdr Richard Walton, head of the Met's Counter Terrorism Command (SO15), said the force was "concerned about the number of young women and girls being drawn into all forms of terrorism".

The PKK is a proscribed terrorist organisation under UK law.
 

Lashley

Why does he wear the mask!?
18!?

Jesus, she's had a hard life. Looks middle aged.

Pleased we've set a precedent on it.
 
Better PKK than Turkish military.

Turkish Military defends its sovereign integrity. Just like any country on Earth. Nothing wrong with that.

PKK are the problem problem and are the reason that Kurdish majority part of Turkey is so deprived. Killing teachers and doctors. It's so tiresome.

Peshmerga are alright though. I have no beef with them.
 

Walshicus

Member
Turkish Military defends its sovereign integrity. Just like any country on Earth. Nothing wrong with that.

PKK are the problem problem and are the reason that Kurdish majority part of Turkey is so deprived. Killing teachers and doctors. It's so tiresome.

Peshmerga are alright though. I have no beef with them.

Turkish military are a bunch of dicks just like the Turkish govt. The fact that you're so bloody brainwashed to think that it's the PKK that are responsible for the oppression you Turks have meted them is just sad.

When you kill, bomb and suppress the rights of a nation, don't be surprised when they fight you.
 
I really can't wrap my head around these kids running away to join terrorist groups. I read a handful of articles on the brainwashing techniques these terrorist recruiters pull off but I still don't understand. I was raised in the same working class lifestyle these disenfranchised kids went through but never felt the compulsion to pack my shit and join a terror cell.
 

goomba

Banned
Sets a bad precedant imo.

nelson mandella's anc party were only removed from the US's terrorist watch list in 2008
 
Turkish military are a bunch of dicks just like the Turkish govt. The fact that you're so bloody brainwashed to think that it's the PKK that are responsible for the oppression you Turks have meted them is just sad.

When you kill, bomb and suppress the rights of a nation, don't be surprised when they fight you.

It must be nice to live in Stereogatari's delusion where everyone who isn't a native Turk is treated without naked contempt and hatred by the Turkish authorities.
 
Turkish military are a bunch of dicks just like the Turkish govt. The fact that you're so bloody brainwashed to think that it's the PKK that are responsible for the oppression you Turks have meted them is just sad.

When you kill, bomb and suppress the rights of a nation, don't be surprised when they fight you.

Yaaawn. I have some Kurdish friends, I go to Kurdish restaurants in Turkey (I'm quite partial to Cig Kofte, cold meatballs, a specialty of the Kurds), I watch Kurdish actors in TV shows. You want to tell them that their rights are suppressed? Because seem happy and free to me. Business owners, celebrities, football you name it, the average guy on the street etc. Kurds are part and parcel of our country and nothing PKK can do about it but get wrecked.

Honestly it just does my head in that there are people like you who think Kurds in Turkey are like Jews in Nazi Germany or something. Blacks in USA have it worse than Kurds in Turkey. 5 million of them love Kurdistan so much that they live in Istanbul.
 

KDR_11k

Member
Yeah, meanwhile France's intel service won't even listen to terror hints from Turkish intel because the Turkish intel service assassinated three Kurds in France and then blamed it on the PKK...
 
So I tried looking up the party's general ideology:
pMqVLxc.png


...big tent huh?

They're pretty liberal so to speak and believe in equal rights for women apparently, who are also fighters I think. The
y are currently fighting ISIS. Fun fact, their ideology is based on the writings of an American anarchist/ socialist. I think they are deemed a terrorist organization for some shit they did in Turkey or something. I mean I'm not an expert but they seem like the ANC more or less but I guess did something terrible enough to be labeled terrorists by Turkey/ the west. They seem like the polar opposite of Isis tbqh.
 

saelz8

Member
I guess did something terrible enough to be labeled terrorists by Turkey/ the west. They seem like the polar opposite of Isis tbqh.

Them not having a problem attacking innocent people is what makes them a terrorist group. If half this stuff happened in the US, us having done bad things in Iraq or Afghanistan would not be seen as a legitimate justification for these kinds of actions.


November 15, 2003 - Thirty people are killed and 146 wounded when car bombs shatter two synagogues in Istanbul. Authorities name two men from southeast Turkey as the suicide bombers, saying the attacks bear the hallmarks of the al Qaeda network.

November 20, 2003 - Thirty-two people are killed and many wounded in two explosions in Istanbul. Part of the HSBC Bank headquarters is destroyed. The British consulate is damaged.

June 24, 2004 - Four people are killed and 15 wounded in an explosion in Istanbul, before former U.S. President George W. Bush was due to arrive in the city.

July 2, 2005 - Six people are killed and 15 injured after a bomb planted by Kurdish guerrillas explodes on a train between the eastern towns of Elazig and Tatvan in Bingol province.

July 6, 2005 - A bomb rips through a minibus in the western holiday resort of Kusadasi, killing at least five people, including a British woman and an Irish woman.

February 13, 2006 - Six people are injured, one seriously, after a bomb explodes at a supermarket on the European side of Istanbul. The Kurdistan Liberation Hawks (TAK) claim responsibility for the blast and pledge more attacks.

June 25, 2006 - A blast tears through a tourist area about 100 km east of the southern resort of Antalya, killing four and injuring 28. The Kurdistan Freedom Hawks (TAK), a group liked to the PKK, claims responsibility.

August 27, 2006 - Ten Britons and six Turks are wounded when their minibus is blown up in the tourist town of Marmaris on the Mediterranean coast. Five others are hurt by two other bombs.

August 28, 2006 - Three people are killed and 87 injured in a blast in Antalya, southern Turkey. The TAK claim responsibility.

September 12, 2006 - A bomb blast kills 10 people, eight of them children, near a park in Diyarbakir, the largest city of Turkey's restive, mainly Kurdish southeast region.

May 22, 2007 - Six Turks are killed in a suicide bombing at the entrance to a mall in the historic Ulus district of Ankara. Ninety-one people are injured.

September 27, 2007 - Two Turkish gendarme officers are killed when a mine laid by Kurdish separatists explodes in Bitlis province in eastern Turkey.

January 3, 2008 - A bomb attack on a military service vehicle outside a school kills at least five students and injures 110 in Diyarbakir.

May 9, 2008 - Three people are killed and five wounded when a land mine detonated by Kurdish guerrillas destroys their minibus in Batman province, southeast Turkey.

July 9, 2008 - Three police officers are killed in a shooting outside the US consulate in Istanbul.

April 29, 2009 - PKK militants detonate bomb which rips through armored vehicles on patrol, killing nine Turkish soldiers in Diyarbakir province.

May 4, 2009 - Gunmen armed with rifles and grenades attack a wedding party in southeastern Turkey on Monday, killing at least 44 people in what was linked to a feud between families.

May 31, 2010 - Six Turkish soldiers were killed and nine wounded in a rocket attack on a naval base in the Mediterranean port city of Iskenderun.

June 19, 2010 - Turkish troops and Kurdish militants clash at Semdinli near the Iraqi border in a firefight which kills 11 soldiers and 12 rebels.

Sept 16, 2010 - A roadside bomb kills 10 people and wounds three when it explodes under their minibus in Hakkari.

July 14, 2011 - Kurdish fighters kill 13 Turkish soldiers in what was worst clash since the PKK ended their latest ceasefire in February. Seven militants are also killed.

August 17, 2011 - The PKK attack a military convoy at Cukurca in southeast Turkey's Hakkari province. Eight soldiers and one member of the state-backed village guard militia are killed and 15 others are wounded.

September 20, 2011 - A car bomb explodes in a street in the capital Ankara near a neighborhood housing government buildings, killing four people and wounding 15. The TAK claim responsibility for the attack and vow to carry out more raids in Turkish cities.

September 20, 2011 - Kurdish guerrillas attack a police college in southeastern Siirt province, killing four people in a passing vehicle.

September 24, 2011 - Kurdish guerrillas armed with rocket launchers attack a police station in Siirt, killing five police officers and wounding nine.

October 18, 2011 - A roadside bomb planted by suspected Kurdish rebels exploded in the Guroymak district of southeastern Bitlis province, killing five policemen and three civilians, including a child.

Source
 

Paracelsus

Member
This is something I wanted to kinda open a thread about.

What is gaf's stance on "Oh, I'm gonna go to the middle east to help people or join this or that greater cause instead of letting the adults take care of things I know nothing of oh no I've been kidnapped please government pay the ransom or they're gonna kill me"?

An example of this is Vanessa and Greta. People are still absolutely livid about this.
 
They're pretty liberal so to speak and believe in equal rights for women apparently, who are also fighters I think. The
y are currently fighting ISIS. Fun fact, their ideology is based on the writings of an American anarchist/ socialist. I think they are deemed a terrorist organization for some shit they did in Turkey or something. I mean I'm not an expert but they seem like the ANC more or less but I guess did something terrible enough to be labeled terrorists by Turkey/ the west. They seem like the polar opposite of Isis tbqh.

They are a terror organisation because they kill innocent people, both Turkish AND Kurdish. They always have hands in the drug trade. Just because they aren't Islamist terrorists doesn't make them better. You've already recieved a reply but I didn't see that till now.

Re: Equal rights for women. PKK as an organisation and Kurdish people as a whole aren't better than Turks for that. In fact, considering how prevalant honour killings and attempts are among them (to homosexuals as well), as well as FGM, not letting girls go to school, arranged child marriages etc.the whole womens rights thing is just a cute propaganda that people who are ignorant of Turkish women's rights fall into.

It is very funny to see the contrast in perception. In Turkey there is a dichotomy between "White" Turks and "Brown" Kurds. Kurds have more people who wear Middle Easterny dress or that scarf thing which Palestinians are associated with , racially are on average more Middle Eastern in looks than average Turk, have less womens rights compared to Turkish average, speak a funny language etc. So in other words PKK and Kurds are seen in Turkish society how Islamist terrorists and Muslims are seen in the West. But in the West, PKK are positioned as the glorious freedom fighters (and Kurds as progressive) and Turks are the evil Islamist terrorists. That'd be like a portrayal of Islamist terrorists and Muslim demographic as progressive and Western World as the backwards ones.

Western people seem blinded by the votes AKP gets. The AKP voterbase are diverse and aren't all stereotypical Islamist crazies (in fact very few are). Due to the "AKP is evil" headlines in every news story about Turkey, It's easy to forget CHP, the fiercestly Secular opposition, got 12.1 million votes to AKP's 23.7 million. 12.1 million fucking votes is huge, that's nearly the population of Greece!!!

5.7 million voted Nationalists who are also committed to Secularism. So 17.8 million Turks are not Islamists and despite the hype not all AKP voters are Islamists either.

As a sidenote 5.1 million votes cast for the Kurdish rights party. There are a lot more eligible Kurdish voters in Turkey than that. I need not say anymore.
 

Condom

Member
They are a terror organisation because they kill innocent people, both Turkish AND Kurdish. They always have hands in the drug trade. Just because they aren't Islamist terrorists doesn't make them better. You've already recieved a reply but I didn't see that till now.

Re: Equal rights for women. PKK as an organisation and Kurdish people as a whole aren't better than Turks for that. In fact, considering how prevalant honour killings and attempts are among them (to homosexuals as well), as well as FGM, not letting girls go to school, arranged child marriages etc.the whole womens rights thing is just a cute propaganda that people who are ignorant of Turkish women's rights fall into.

It is very funny to see the contrast in perception. In Turkey there is a dichotomy between "White" Turks and "Brown" Kurds. Kurds have more people who wear Middle Easterny dress or that scarf thing which Palestinians are associated with , racially are on average more Middle Eastern in looks than average Turk, have less womens rights compared to Turkish average, speak a funny language etc. So in other words PKK and Kurds are seen in Turkish society how Islamist terrorists and Muslims are seen in the West. But in the West, PKK are positioned as the glorious freedom fighters (and Kurds as progressive) and Turks are the evil Islamist terrorists. That'd be like a portrayal of Islamist terrorists and Muslim demographic as progressive and Western World as the backwards ones.

Western people seem blinded by the votes AKP gets. The AKP voterbase are diverse and aren't all stereotypical Islamist crazies (in fact very few are). Due to the "AKP is evil" headlines in every news story about Turkey, It's easy to forget CHP, the fiercestly Secular opposition, got 12.1 million votes to AKP's 23.7 million. 12.1 million fucking votes is huge, that's nearly the population of Greece!!!

5.7 million voted Nationalists who are also committed to Secularism. So 17.8 million Turks are not Islamists and despite the hype not all AKP voters are Islamists either.

As a sidenote 5.1 million votes cast for the Kurdish rights party. There are a lot more eligible Kurdish voters in Turkey than that. I need not say anymore.

HDP is super progressive though, more so than the other parties.
 
HDP is super progressive though, more so than the other parties.
That I agree with and it's how they diversify their voterbase to include left wing Turks. But their core South-Eastern Kurdish voterbase itself is not as open to things like gay rights and independent women.
 
I'd take a wild guess that she's the first person outside of Turkey to be arrested for PKK activity. A surprisingly pleasant precedent. It's good to have consistency on all forms of terror, Islamist terror isn't the only terror.

Get out of here with this crap.

Sets a bad precedant imo.

nelson mandella's anc party were only removed from the US's terrorist watch list in 2008

Yup. Some of these terrorist designations are totally bullshit.
 
Yaaawn. I have some Kurdish friends, I go to Kurdish restaurants in Turkey (I'm quite partial to Cig Kofte, cold meatballs, a specialty of the Kurds), I watch Kurdish actors in TV shows. You want to tell them that their rights are suppressed? Because seem happy and free to me. Business owners, celebrities, football you name it, the average guy on the street etc. Kurds are part and parcel of our country and nothing PKK can do about it but get wrecked.

Woooooooooooooooooooooooooow.

So I tried looking up the party's general ideology:

...big tent huh?

They started off as Maoist communists. While in prison, their leader discovered libertarian-socialism and spread that around. Democratic confederalism and libertarian municipalism both fall under that umbrella.

Basically, in northern Syria, Kurdish communities are run by direct democracy. Everyone in the community gathers in public squares to debate issues and they generally make decisions by consensus. They've pretty much gotten rid of capitalism and are trying to produce enough resources for everyone in the community. All the municipalities are confederated and work through issues in a general council, but each municipality is autonomous. The central councils can not impose laws on individual towns without the consent of those towns. For example, some municipalities have armed cops but others refuse.

As far as feminism goes, that's a central tenant of their ideology and they see it as something that distinguishes them from the rest of the middle east (as well as a general approval of religious and cultural diversity). A major part of the society they are building is based on improving the rights of women, fighting domestic violence, etc. Their fighting forces are made up of co-ed fighting units (YPG) and all women units (YPJ).

Both the YPG and YPJ have been responsible for some of ISIS' most spectacular defeats. They were the ones who broke ISIS' mountain siege last year, freeing thousands of refugees who the U.S. thought were doomed. They're a really well organized fighting force and they have a tremendous moral/existential incentive to resist ISIS. Here's a great set of interviews with YPJ fighters:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCCODxq8diI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9q-U5whh1sw

kAnqKf.gif
 

SURGEdude

Member
Yaaawn. I have some Kurdish friends, I go to Kurdish restaurants in Turkey (I'm quite partial to Cig Kofte, cold meatballs, a specialty of the Kurds), I watch Kurdish actors in TV shows. You want to tell them that their rights are suppressed? Because seem happy and free to me. Business owners, celebrities, football you name it, the average guy on the street etc. Kurds are part and parcel of our country and nothing PKK can do about it but get wrecked.

Honestly it just does my head in that there are people like you who think Kurds in Turkey are like Jews in Nazi Germany or something. Blacks in USA have it worse than Kurds in Turkey. 5 million of them love Kurdistan so much that they live in Istanbul.

Reading this post and then getting on a high horse about American race relations made me chuckle.
 

besiktas1

Member
Don't really get involved in political discussion but pkk are scum, for some of you guys to side/sypathise with a terrorist group group makes me sad :(
 

Walshicus

Member
If they were killing people despite an established, credible political process for them to achieve their aims, then yes that would be bad. That they are left with no choice by the Turks who use nearly every chance available to kill Kurds or erode their national identity through political violence...

Not saying every act done in the name of the PKK is moral (even ignoring the foreign soil assassinations that Turkey carries out and blames them for) but I'd sooner trust them than the Turks in that region.
 

besiktas1

Member
If they were killing people despite an established, credible political process for them to achieve their aims, then yes that would be bad. That they are left with no choice by the Turks who use nearly every chance available to kill Kurds or erode their national identity through political violence...

Not saying every act done in the name of the PKK is moral (even ignoring the foreign soil assassinations that Turkey carries out and blames them for) but I'd sooner trust them than the Turks in that region.

But they kill innocents :(
This thread makes me sad, all life if precious and two wrongs don't make a right :)
Have a nice day like I said I'm too much of a jolly guy to get upset by remarks in this thread x
 

hohoXD123

Member
Yaaawn. I have some Kurdish friends, I go to Kurdish restaurants in Turkey (I'm quite partial to Cig Kofte, cold meatballs, a specialty of the Kurds), I watch Kurdish actors in TV shows. You want to tell them that their rights are suppressed? Because seem happy and free to me. Business owners, celebrities, football you name it, the average guy on the street etc. Kurds are part and parcel of our country and nothing PKK can do about it but get wrecked.

Honestly it just does my head in that there are people like you who think Kurds in Turkey are like Jews in Nazi Germany or something. Blacks in USA have it worse than Kurds in Turkey. 5 million of them love Kurdistan so much that they live in Istanbul.
You cannot be serious with this post. Literally everything you said can be applied to black people in the US. It's not so easy to go from a country whose people kill Kurds for simply speaking their own language to one which has integrated them completely, and I'd imagine a lot of the Kurds who identify more as Turks are like that because of the ban on their culture in the past.
 
I need proof that Kurds get killed for speaking their own language.

TRT 6 is a State TV Channel that broadcasts in their language and you can find plenty of Kurdish language independent channels on TurkSat.

They have full political participation.

They are allowed to reach all parts of Turkish society without any skin colour or racial discrimination.
 

Facism

Member
But they kill innocents :(
This thread makes me sad, all life if precious and two wrongs don't make a right :)
Have a nice day like I said I'm too much of a jolly guy to get upset by remarks in this thread x

You have a nice day, too😊
 

Walshicus

Member
But they kill innocents :(
This thread makes me sad, all life if precious and two wrongs don't make a right :)
Have a nice day like I said I'm too much of a jolly guy to get upset by remarks in this thread x

All life is precious yes, but so is the right to self determination. You can bet as soon as a real political process is put in place to determine whether the majority of Kurds desire independence from the Turks (and the rest of the nations that nominally occupy them), the violence will end.
 

hohoXD123

Member
I need proof that Kurds get killed for speaking their own language.

TRT 6 is a State TV Channel that broadcasts in their language and you can find plenty of Kurdish language independent channels on TurkSat.

They have full political participation.

They are allowed to reach all parts of Turkish society without any skin colour or racial discrimination.
Maybe I should have clarified, the situation as recent as the 1990s was so bad that they got killed for speaking their own language, you don't just go from a situation like that to one where their culture is respected and are considered completely equal members of society so quickly. There weren't even any Kurdish TV broadcasts until 2004, the channel you mentioned was only set up in 2009. In 2009, Abdullah Demirbaş who was elected mayor of a district of Diyarbakr was prosecuted for language crimes. Over 100 HDP offices have been attacked. Even in 2010 the ECRI wrote in a report that use of the language by officials lays them open to prosecution.

Kurds in Turkey are still considered second-class citizens. It's delusional to think that everything is fine.
 
Maybe I should have clarified, the situation as recent as the 1990s was so bad that they got killed for speaking their own language, you don't just go from a situation like that to one where their culture is respected and are considered completely equal members of society so quickly. There weren't even any Kurdish TV broadcasts until 2004, the channel you mentioned was only set up in 2009. In 2009, Abdullah Demirbaş who was elected mayor of a district of Diyarbakr was prosecuted for language crimes. Over 100 HDP offices have been attacked. Even in 2010 the ECRI wrote in a report that use of the language by officials lays them open to prosecution.

Kurds in Turkey are still considered second-class citizens. It's delusional to think that everything is fine.

Yawn, a Kurdish guy mows my lawn and he always seems happy.
 

faridmon

Member
This is something I wanted to kinda open a thread about.

What is gaf's stance on "Oh, I'm gonna go to the middle east to help people or join this or that greater cause instead of letting the adults take care of things I know nothing of oh no I've been kidnapped please government pay the ransom or they're gonna kill me"?

An example of this is Vanessa and Greta. People are still absolutely livid about this.

Lol, I didn't know this was a thing. People are like that anyway, they tend to try meddle with other people's business without thinking about circumstances, the risk involved and the consequence of their actions. I know they may have good intentions behind all of this, but people tend to forget, you will trouble folks if you don't have a brain of your deeds! I am not surprised about these things happening

My opinion:' Don't do stupid shit unless you have a proper procedure in place that helps you do the right thing.
 
Stereogatari is the type of guy who would never vote HDP even though it aligns with all his political views. Why? Because Kurds.

Dude I get it, you're super pro-Turkey and hey why shouldn't you be, after all you're Turkish. But stop spinning everything in favour of Turkey and get out of the reality distortion field you've found yourself in. The current day Turkish government (AKP and it's Islamized military wing) are clearly oppressing the Kurds.

"Mountain Turks".
Blaming the Kurds for the bombings in Ankara and Suruc.
Supporting the worlds current biggest and dangerous terrorist group: ISIS.
Government scandal after scandal and then blaming "deep state".
Supporting multiple other jihadist groups: Al Nusra and company.
Purchasing oil from ISIS.
Helping destabilize the Syrian state early on.
Jailing of thousands of journalists.
Military special forces screaming "Allahu Akbar" so as to impose fear.
Cutting off access to media.
Forcing government takeovers of media corporations.
Islamification of the historically secular country.

I can go on, but I won't. Turkey has turned into an embarrassment as of late. But hey, let's just blame those damn kurds and the PKK for terrorizing the country. Have you ever been to those Kurdish towns? Have you spoken to the people? Do you know what it's like to have your family, your parents and their parents be oppressed for generations?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom