rexux-Corocotta
Member
MS does not report earnings for any of its divisions.Which is a dead giveaway it is not profitable.
MS does not report earnings for any of its divisions.Which is a dead giveaway it is not profitable.
I’ve literally posted three examples coming from lawsuits / testimony data. The most damning one, which is constantly ignored is from the Epic vs Apple trial, where MS is listed to have made over 1B in gaming profit in 2019. This is straight from a trial document and has never been disproved ever.
Where is the evidence that MS gaming division is losing money?
Hellblade ?aka they make actual games and not movies walking sims.
lol, so you’re full of shit. Gotcha.
Well if want to try and be clever like that, show us factual data where MS has started operating losses for the XBox division not in the 360 or XBox era.What results?
Edit: If you are talking about financial reporting, Microsoft has never stated profitability for the Xbox division.
The tweet thread explains what I'm talking about.
In short, Microsoft made 1.6b - 2.6b worth of profit via game sales and subscription services.
However, that doesn't take into account loss in hardware and other factors. The tweets I shared before explain how there are many answers as to how Microsoft calculates their operating costs which are likely excluded from their "profits."
Here is ZhugeEX explaining the profit from the Apple documents.
Looking at the steep discounts this holiday season due to poor video game sales, Microsoft is likely taking a massive loss just to increase the install base.
Google AI is an idiot. Sony owns the film rights and TV rights for live action longer than 45 minutes. Disney owns everything else, including the video games. That’s why Spider-Man was in Midnight Suns, even on Xbox.I thought Sony had the rights? Google AI says they do.
Well if want to try and be clever like that, show us factual data where MS has started operating losses for the XBox division not in the 360 or XBox era.
Rather than NeoGAF hearsay
Which is a dead giveaway it is not profitable.
The Microsoft fixation from Sony fans on here is borderline unhealthy… And I’m being kind there - it’s actually fucking nuts.
MS is the only console manufacturer not reporting profits or losses, without that info, assumptions are usually made.Ah yes. Another NEOGAF circle jerk about hating Microsoft. If only it were as exhausting for you all to participate as it is to read just a few posts of.
Says the company that spent $80+ Billions on two publishers that were already bringing games to their platforms… and boasts about being able to outspend Sony out of business… come on mate…Ever wonder why the majority of Xbox games don't look and animate etc to the level of a Sony title...same for the majority of the industry and third parties?
Because Sony created these type of games and are the only ones who can financially take the risk.
Do you honestly think MS made a 2.2bn USD loss on hardware in 2019? Wouldn’t that be around 22M units sold in one year at a 100USD loss per unit at the tail end of the gen?
In the end the debate is between published data on one end and speculation tainted with bias on the other end.
The best argument has always been the FTC and CMA trials. Both agencies had access to MS financials and would easily be able to show it if MS was running a loss-leading strategy, absorbing Xbox losses with their other BUs. This argument would in turn be really strong in an antitrust / anticompetitive behavior case.
And yet… in none of the cases by none of the agencies was the loss-leading argument used. Ever. Almost as if it doesn’t apply.
And I stand by that unless you can prove otherwise. I remember it took until Halo 3 for the Xbox division to report its 1st ever profit.Except you are the one engaging in "hearsay". You said Xbox has been profitable since Xbox One, but you don't have any proof. You point to "results", but Microsoft financial reports don't tell us Xbox division profitability so that doesn't work. If Xbox has been reporting profitability since Xbox One then then this wouldn't even be up for speculation. Folks would just bring up the income statement that would be that. But no one can do that, including you.
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And I stand by that unless you can prove otherwise. I remember it took until Halo 3 for the Xbox division to report its 1st ever profit.
I've never read any factual data that the XBox division since the XBox One has made an actual loss for the year.
AFAIK Grounded isn't a GaaS, it took 4 years to develop with a team of 10ish developers, it's price is 40€, and 25-30€ when discounted.And how much money are games like Grounded making when it's out of the top 50 on most Xbox games played and only 5k concurrent players on Steam? The same goes for AoE and Flight Simulator.
Seems like a lot of Xbox fans overvalue a lot of Xbox games.
AFAIK Grounded isn't a GaaS
Multiple billions spent on purchasing publishers.I’ve literally posted three examples coming from lawsuits / testimony data. The most damning one, which is constantly ignored is from the Epic vs Apple trial, where MS is listed to have made over 1B in gaming profit in 2019. This is straight from a trial document and has never been disproved ever.
Where is the evidence that MS gaming division is losing money?
AFAIK Grounded isn't a GaaS, it took 4 years to develop with a team of 10ish developers, it's price is 40€, and 25-30€ when discounted.
On Steam only it's at around 2 million sales, adding sales from Gamepass app (for the 10% discount), Xbox and other PC marketplaces it should be at 4m+, that's over 100 million in the worst of cases, not even adding people who paid for Gamepass just to try this game (and others).
For a game with a 5-10m? budget it doesn't look that bad imo.
But yea MS has some advantages over Sony on this.
- Selling their games on 2 platforms on day 1
- No money spent at all on marketing compared to Sony, except for cases like FH5, i guess they spent some on Halo or Starfield on USA, maybe in UK too, definitely not in the rest of Europe.
- The ratio of digital games sold must be at 90+% for their first party games overall, while Sony's at around 50%?, you get more money per digital sale obviously.
- Smaller budgets overall, "AAA"'s announced for Xbox in 2024 like Hellblade 2 had a developer count of under 100 for most part of it's development if not all, Avowed has been at 80-130 too, which means these don't need to sell a shitton of copies to be profitable, still, a game like Hellblade 2 is going to need a miracle to be profitable.
- Multiplayer and microtransactions on many games translates in longer legs, Halo Infinite, Sea of Thieves, AoE, Grounded, Forza Horizon etc appear on the Steam best selling games every year since their release, and should continue to appear this year too
- Nobody likes this, but MS charging 100+$ versions for their games or 30-40$ without even adding the game for early access and DLC was a master move, one i am absolutely sure Sony will copy very soon, it's so much free money even before the official release, AFAIK games like FH5 or Starfield managed to sell 1-2m of these each.
Instead of a blanketed statement like this, what exactly are they insecure about? Who in here has displayed this? What is the Xbox division doing that would/should put people in this predicament?More Sony fanboy insecurity manifesting itself. This forum is riddled with it.
So I'm guessing you guys didn't hear that the ABK acquisition literally makes the Xbox division sustainable?Xbox was always a money pit.
The existence of this thread for starters? Literally made because Insomniacs budget for Spiderman 2 and how many they have to sell just to break even.Instead of blanketed statement like this, what exactly are they insecure about? Who in here has displayed this? What is the Xbox division doing that would/should put people in this predicament?
Microsoft likely has a ton of money coming in from the GaaS games they have:
Halo Infinite
Spend $70b that you didn’t make, claim sustainability.So I'm guessing you guys didn't hear that the ABK acquisition literally makes the Xbox division sustainable?
Seriously, how can this be true when Nadella wanted to actually shutter the Xbox division when he came aboard, now he's ALL IN on gaming these days? If Xbox was not profitable, no way would the CEO literally go from "let's maybe look at other options" to "Okay! Let's spend $100 billion on two of the biggest publishers in the business!" And actually go to court to make it happen. Like, WTF?Their own published games and gamepass has yet to make a profit. It's being upheld by microsoft money
Did you add salt to the equation? Cause there's a ton of it in your post. I mean, did you add this much salt when Sony purchased Sony? Sheesh, my guy!Spend $70b that you didn’t make, claim sustainability.
So that's code you can't show me any factual data showing where XBox made a loss for the year from the XBox One era?Then why are you pointing to "results" if you've never read anything factual about Xbox profitability since Xbox One? Absence of data is not proof of anything.
What's your source for that? Can you please share it?If only your Xbox bashing posts were half as creative. XBox Group has been profitable since the XBox One.
You don't need to be number one in sales or have the biggest sales to generate profit.
It looked like a mistake to me to have your big games on day one on Gamepass for both the console and PC, but in the end, it worked out rather decent.
Did you add salt to the equation? Cause there's a ton of it in your post. I mean, did you add this much salt when Sony purchased Sony? Sheesh, my guy!
So that's code you can't show me any factual data showing where XBox made a loss for the year from the XBox One era?
Take that up with the OP. The fact that you participated in this thread (going as far as to call someone salty) means the insecurities may just lie with you and him.The existence of this thread for starters? Literally made because Insomniacs budget for Spiderman 2 and how many they have to sell just to break even.
Like, what does that have to do with Xbox?
Even a game at Halo Infinites level brings in a very steady income due to microtransactions. Hence why most publishers are attempting to board the GaaS train.
YOU can take it up with the OP. Lol. I'm just wondering what Insomniac has to do with Xbox? I'm not seeing the correlation here.Take that up with the OP. The fact that you participated in this thread (specifically to call someone salty) means the insecurities may just lie with you and him.
Now, unless you have the answers, I'd prefer to hear what he has to say.
And at the rate of 5bn profit/year it will take 14 years for Xbox just to pay daddy MS for it, after that maybe we can say ATK makes Xbox profitable (if Xbox still exists as a platform by then).Spend $70b that you didn’t make, claim sustainability.
It's text book deflecting. Wild....How do I turn bad news for Sony into even worse news for Microsoft?
The mental gymnastics….
No, I can't, because I'm not the one bitchin' about the thread.YOU can take it up with the OP. Lol. I'm just wondering what Insomniac has to do with Xbox? I'm not seeing the correlation here.
IDGAF what you want to hear from the thread. That's your business my guy...no offense
Says the company that spent $80+ Billions on two publishers that were already bringing games to their platforms… and boasts about being able to outspend Sony out of business… come on mate…
Xbox has posted loss several times - even during their most successful period, Xbox 360.If only your Xbox bashing posts were half as creative. XBox Group has been profitable since the XBox One.
You don't need to be number one in sales or have the biggest sales to generate profit.
It looked like a mistake to me to have your big games on day one on Gamepass for both the console and PC, but in the end, it worked out rather decent.
More Sony fanboy insecurity manifesting itself. This forum is riddled with it.