LOST 06.17/18/18.5: "The End" (Everything Else Was Just Progress)

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I think a lot of S1 is pretty boring now. If you rate it purely on when I first watched it obviously I loved it. Hell, S3 was the only season I kinda disliked a bit at the time.

But it's the post Looking Glass seasons I like the most. And S4's length and narrative device brings it down a little for me (The flashforwards removed a lot of tension). S6 being number one for me seems logical, but I need to rewatch it all.
 
Son of Godzilla said:
So Christian in the church was actually the MIB, not Jack's daddy, right?

What? Why would MIB be there?

TheGreatDave said:
I think a lot of S1 is pretty boring now. If you rate it purely on when I first watched it obviously I loved it. Hell, S3 was the only season I kinda disliked a bit at the time.

I was sort of bored during S1 when it was first airing but I think that was partly due to the fact that they kept having breaks and repeats throughout the season. Oh man, what a pain that was.
 
2OXLq.gif
 
Wow at both .gifs :lol
 
ErasureAcer said:
It's either S6 > S5 > S4 > S3 > S2 > S1 (Bedrock/Build-up analysis) or S1 = S2 = S3 = S4 = S5 = S6 (Every little thing mattered analysis) for me.

Neither analysis has any logic behind it
 
Solo said:
Neither analysis has any logic behind it

Basically, if you take out any season the story falls short...there wasn't a lot of filler whatsoever when you look at it. Everything was connected fairly well. The rankings could easily be any of the 720(???) combinations of putting them in order. There is no right or wrong answer. Just my opinion.
 
Going on my gut feeling, and having never rewatched the full series, I'm going to say:

4 > 5 > 1 > 2 > 3 > 6


Also those gifs are amazing.
 
It's tough to rank the seasons now because, to me at least, 6 is the perfect summation of everything on the show. It's got crazy climactic action, kung fu, rain battles, Hurley King, etc. And then on the flipside is has the perfect metaphorical exploration of all the show's themes: destinies, free will, what happened happened, etc.

There were seasons that were more fun or exciting or crazier or had more WHA-HUH?!?!? moments, but shit.

Season 6 is fucking perfect as a work of fiction.
 
Fjolle said:
If Mother was MotherInBlack, did she make the illusion of the real mother that made MIB leave? Or did he just mag(net)ically have an ability to see ghosts.

Or the real mother was just Smokey impersonating her to convince MIB to leave his brother and adoptive mother.

By the way, are we sure the fake mother killed MIB's "friends" and filled the well? I can't remember if we see her going there or if she mentions it at any point.
 
Raist said:
Or the real mother was just Smokey impersonating her to convince MIB to leave his brother and adoptive mother.

By the way, are we sure the fake mother killed MIB's "friends" and filled the well? I can't remember if we see her going there or if she entions it at any point.


We have no reason to believe otherwise. She got angry at the donkey wheel plan, smashed "Crap I didn't think of two names" against the wall, and then he woke up out of the well with the well full and the town dead.

Implies that she had some kind of powers stronger than normal, especially the well being filled in before MIB could regain consciousness. That's where a lot of the people are getting the idea that she may have been both the protector and the monster.
 
TheGreatDave said:
I think the Other's fertility issues were wrapped up fairly nicely. After Jughead women who got pregnant ended up having their bodies turn against the baby, because something something white blood cells. They brought Juliet to the island to try and fix it, and when Clairewas able to give birth (presumably because she wasn't on the island long enough for it to effect her) they wanted to do tests on her and Aaron.

the fertility issue I think was because Jacob watched the Others turn bad/get corrupted by MiB so he decided they'd have no more babies. Jacob makes the rules = dead babies.
 
Archaix said:
We have no reason to believe otherwise. She got angry at the donkey wheel plan, smashed "Crap I didn't think of two names" against the wall, and then he woke up out of the well with the well full and the town dead.

Implies that she had some kind of powers stronger than normal, especially the well being filled in before MIB could regain consciousness. That's where a lot of the people are getting the idea that she may have been both the protector and the monster.

Jacob wasn't Smokey, that didn't prevent him doing some fucked up stuff...
So there's no real proof that she did that, regardless of the possibility that she could have been the previous Smokey. Maybe there was a Smokey already, and he did that himself. Fake mom had nothing to do with it.
 
Why didn't Ana Lucia get invited to the church? It's not like they didn't find her or anything, Hurley was even in contact with the woman. I mean, I know that she was kind of a bitch, but it's pretty mean not to invite her to heaven.

Same with Miles. Couldn't Sawyer have called up his buddy after he met Juliet and been like "Hey Miles, you're dead, let me pick you up so we can go to heaven." Come on Sawyer, Miles was integral to you even getting off the island, and you just leave him in purgatory without a partner anymore? Ice cold, James.
 
Afrodium said:
Why didn't Ana Lucia get invited to the church? It's not like they didn't find her or anything, Hurley was even in contact with the woman. I mean, I know that she was kind of a bitch, but it's pretty mean not to invite her to heaven.

Probably because her time on the island wasnt the most important time of her life.
 
Afrodium said:
Why didn't Ana Lucia get invited to the church? It's not like they didn't find her or anything, Hurley was even in contact with the woman. I mean, I know that she was kind of a bitch, but it's pretty mean not to invite her to heaven.

Same with Miles. Couldn't Sawyer have called up his buddy after he met Juliet and been like "Hey Miles, you're dead, let me pick you up so we can go to heaven." Come on Sawyer, Miles was integral to you even getting off the island, and you just leave him in purgatory without a partner anymore? Ice cold, James.
real answer:
they're both minorities, shieeeeeet.

And Speeding wins life with that gif.
 
Solo said:
Probably because her time on the island wasnt the most important time of her life.

I think her, along with Michael, probably had a lot more issues to work out as well. I can imagine them staying behind.
 
Raist said:
Jacob wasn't Smokey, that didn't prevent him doing some fucked up stuff...
So there's no real proof that she did that, regardless of the possibility that she could have been the previous Smokey. Maybe there was a Smokey already, and he did that himself. Fake mom had nothing to do with it.


Jacob could do fucked up stuff, but he didn't have the sheer power the fill a deep well in a matter of one afternoon (unless MIB was out for over a day). There is absolutely enough to run with the idea that she was both. The skeletons in the cave of light, as discussed earlier in here by who the hell knows who for Hurley's sake this thing is 10000+ posts long, also could hint that the previous protectors went down there to become Smokey and abandoned their bodies in the cave. The egyptian symbols presumably predating Jacob's time on the Island and the depiction of Smokey in the temple would seem to imply also that the monster was around longer than anybody we've seen on the show. It, much like most of Lost, is not certain but there are many things that can be taken as clues one way or the other.

edit: Furthermore, MIB said once that Jacob robbed him of his humanity. He may have shown a dislike for people before he was the monster, but he never (perhaps through not having the opportunity) killed them for getting in his way. He killed Mother out of anger and because of what she had done. Once he became the monster, though, he no longer had any regard for human life whatsoever. Something also exhibited by Mother. It could be looked at as though becoming the monster does grant great powers (enough to protect the Island and the heart if needed) but it also keeps you from being truly human. Not because of the immortality and the smoke thing, but because it strips you of your conscience so that you are a truely impartial judge in matters and can do what is needed. For the protectors, this would be keeping the Island safe. For MIB, this became getting off the Island at all costs.
 
Afrodium said:
Why didn't Ana Lucia get invited to the church? It's not like they didn't find her or anything, Hurley was even in contact with the woman. I mean, I know that she was kind of a bitch, but it's pretty mean not to invite her to heaven.

Same with Miles. Couldn't Sawyer have called up his buddy after he met Juliet and been like "Hey Miles, you're dead, let me pick you up so we can go to heaven." Come on Sawyer, Miles was integral to you even getting off the island, and you just leave him in purgatory without a partner anymore? Ice cold, James.

Desmond said Ana Lucia wasn't ready.
 
Solo said:
Probably because her time on the island wasnt the most important time of her life.

Hurley said she wasn't ready. She was too busy being a dirty cop who could be bought off to release two suspected murderers and a guy who ran down a man in a wheelchair.
 
hamchan said:
This is a pretty nice list.
Most of those have been answered already ( through proxy).
For instance;
"What did Locke see when he first saw the monster?"

He saw the same thing Ben saw, memories of things or people important to him. The monster had a different attitude about John, so it must have shown him beautiful things.
 
Here's another little thing to piss me off: Miles. They made him out to be so weird and mysterious. Turns out he was useless all the way to the end. So much for purpose Lost.
 
Afrodium said:
Why didn't Ana Lucia get invited to the church? It's not like they didn't find her or anything, Hurley was even in contact with the woman. I mean, I know that she was kind of a bitch, but it's pretty mean not to invite her to heaven.

Same with Miles. Couldn't Sawyer have called up his buddy after he met Juliet and been like "Hey Miles, you're dead, let me pick you up so we can go to heaven." Come on Sawyer, Miles was integral to you even getting off the island, and you just leave him in purgatory without a partner anymore? Ice cold, James.

Like Hurley said: there are rules. He wasn't just allowed to tell Sayid that he was dead. Sayid had to have his own revelation.

Miles and Ana Lucia had their own groups to move on with.
 
Sorry if you guys already discussed this, but I have a few questions regarding Desmond.

I understand he was special because he could withstand electromagnetic energy, but why did he suddenly know what he needed to do after Whitmore ran that test on him?

Was he able to somehow "connect" between the "purgatory" that they created and the real world on the island? When he became aware in the side flashes he suddenly knew he had to get everyone to come together.

Also, when he spoke to Farraday's mother at the concert, was she really there or just part of what they created? And what is the deal with her anyway? Is she like some keeper of time or something? She was the jewelry shop lady when Desmond first time-traveled after turning the failsafe key and was trying to show him that he can't change the past. It seems to me that maybe this wasn't a time in the past, but maybe part of the "purgatory" that Desmond accidentally slipped into.
 
Raist said:
Jacob wasn't Smokey, that didn't prevent him doing some fucked up stuff...
So there's no real proof that she did that, regardless of the possibility that she could have been the previous Smokey. Maybe there was a Smokey already, and he did that himself. Fake mom had nothing to do with it.

It sure as hell is implied. It seems to fit the character of a woman who would murder another woman moments after giving birth. IMO, psycho mom & Jacob are both evil, MIB is a victim who turned evil because of the actions of his oppressors. There is "no real proof" for many circumstances on the show.
 
hamchan said:
This is a pretty nice list.

Damn, that list is brutal. Pretty much defeats any claim that "most things have been answered." Sure, some of that stuff isn't massively important but damnnn.
 
mrmyth said:
Hurley said she wasn't ready. She was too busy being a dirty cop who could be bought off to release two suspected murderers and a guy who ran down a man in a wheelchair.

She might not be ready, but even when she is, she wont move on with the Losties, because she didnt have the bond with them that they had with eachother, which was my point.
 
Veidt said:
Most of those have been answered already ( through proxy).
For instance;
"What did Locke see when he first saw the monster?"

He saw the same thing Ben saw, memories of things or people important to him. The monster had a different attitude about John, so it must have shown him beautiful things.

You know, at some point I think I'm going to have to tackle this list one by one and answer these questions. As you said, a lot of them can be explained through proxy.
 
DoctorWho said:
You know, at some point I think I'm going to have to tackle this list one by one and answer these questions. As you said, a lot of them can be explained through proxy.

But that means thinking! I want everything laid out neatly for me!
 
otake said:
Here's another little thing to piss me off: Miles. They made him out to be so weird and mysterious. Turns out he was useless all the way to the end. So much for purpose Lost.

He did have his uses but wasn't a key factor in most major events.
 
Jexhius said:
Damn, that list is brutal. Pretty much defeats any claim that "most things have been answered." Sure, some of that stuff isn't massively important but damnnn.
Many of them have been answered, or at least hinted, in some way.
Check Stumpokapow's post here:
Stumpokapow said:
I only did the first three quarters and divided them into two categories:

I might be wrong about some stuff.

Stuff that was obviously answered or isn't relevant to anything larger than trivia:
The monster killed the pilot because he didn't want people to leave the island. Christian Shepard's body could have been knocked out of the coffin during the crash. The psychic was lying to Claire. The sound the smoke monster makes is really pretty irrelevant. The horse is on the island from the Dharma initiative. Henry Gale got buried under his balloon. Libby's story isn't relevant. The four toed statue was built by the Egyptians. The reason why you need a specific compass bearing to leave the island is because the electromagnetic properties screw up magnetic equipment--of course, that doesn't explain anything else about the island moving. Tom wore a fake beard presumably to disguise himself if he were caught, same as Ben impersonating Henry Gale. Libby's previous husband was irrelevant. The skeletons in the polar bear cave were Mother and the Man in Black's body. Locke and Eko presumably got blasted out of the hatch when it exploded--how they survived, no idea. Locke presumably couldn't talk after the explosion because being in an explosion hurt his throat. Eko's entire plot got cut/rolled in to other stuff. The Russian letter in Mikhail's typewriter was irrelevant. Why the supply drop menu was hidden behind a game of chess is irrelevant, presumably it was another Dharma psychological experiment. How the Monks at Desmond's monastery knew Eloise is irrelevant. Ben saw his dead mother because he was having a vision or because Smokey was occupying her form. What happened to Ben's childhood friend Annie was irrelevant. Desmond's false vision of Claire and Aaron leaving the island wasn't explained, but who says he wasn't lying to Charlie about it to begin with? Mikhail didn't come back to life--the one time he almost died was when he went to the sonic fence, and they later explained it wasn't set to lethal force. Who knows whose eye was in the cabin window besides Christian Shepard. Naomi's bracelet doesn't matter. The time difference on Faraday's watches was because the island distorts normal time. Ben wasn't surprised that they were able to kill Alex, he was surprised that they were willing to kill Alex. Jack saw his ghost dad in LA because he was nuts and hallucinating. No idea why Smokey as Horace directed Locke to the cabin, but it's not relevant. The Oceanic 6 name Charlie, Boone, and Libby as the other three survivors presumably because they wanted to come up with a believable story. Why Miles decides to stay on the island is irrelevant. Ben makes the Oceanic Six come back to the island both because he has to for Jacob and because he thinks it'll make him head of the island again. The men who tried to capture Sayid and Hurley were presumably working for either Widmore or Ben. Ben talking to the butcher was talking in code about non-island members of the Others. I think Ben took C4 out of his vent. The Smoke Monster wasn't at the Temple, he was near and under the Temple. Presumably because he was trying to get in. The second flight had to have the same people as the first flight so that the right people would time travel to cause the events that led to the events that caused the first flight to crash.

Stuff that didn't get answered:
The supply drop went unexplained. The Others child/fertility story ended up unresolved. Walt's special powers ended up unresolved. I have no idea why Jack wasn't on Jacob's list when he was doing Ben's surgery, I asked that myself--but I assume it's because Jacob originally was planned to have a list of candidates to replace Ben (which is the direction they were going with with Locke's story) but that changed in the end. I have no idea about the fertility thing, that's a serious plot hole. Juliet getting branded when she was found guilty was part of the Others justice system--remember they even had that Sheriff type figure? That never got elaborated on in the end. The rules between Ben and Widmore were never explained and is a serious plot hole. No idea how Christian Shepard appeared on the freighter. The frozen wheel isn't explained, but the Man in Black basically says "it's a wheel that moves the island and uses magic light" so that's good enough for me. They never explain who is shooting at the gang during the time travel. Eloise's elaborate pendulum / island finding system isn't explained but presumably from her association with Widmore and his lifelong goal of getting back to the island, they were connected. Actually, most of the stuff done by Sun's father / Widmore / Eloise was clearly something they planned to explain at one point and then decided not to.
I'd add the fertility thing was (sort of) resolved. It just wasn't as important to the overall story as it looked to be.
 
Jocchan said:
Many of them have been answered, or at least hinted, in some way.
Check Stumpokapow's post here:

Indeed, some of that can be reasonably answered by proxy, but that certain LOST fans think that's some kind of reasonable method just shows how skewed people's perceptions of storytelling have become. I certainly didn't want them all answered in an info-dump or something, and many of them didn't bother me but it's just an indication of general sloppiness.
 
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