LOST 06.17/18/18.5: "The End" (Everything Else Was Just Progress)

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Matt said:
The difference is that Mad Men and Breaking Bad take place in the "real" world, whereas Lost takes place in a world where the writers have invented new rules and possibilities for the characters and events to follow. We don't need to be told why Walter likes science, because we all understand the process through which people develop their own interests, even if we don't know the specifics.

In Lost's world, however, we do need to be told why some random scientists thought it would be a better idea to train polar bears to turn a random magical donkey wheel rather then, you know, turning it themselves, or using a robot, or just leaving it alone, because otherwise these events happening just seem strange and random to the viewer.

Now, you're right, some ambiguity is fine, and if at the end of this show we were only left wondering why they had polar bears doing this job, or other such small and trivial questions, fine, no one would really care. Lost for much of the run was very well written and well produced, and the number one thing I always loved about the show was the character development (the best stuff was always in the flashbacks, not on the island). The point is that the entire show was, in the end, left as an unexplained mess (just like this crazy polar bear issue), where a ton of the actions of characters and the meanings of events from the show's six year run still make no sense to the viewers.

Lost invites more questions then Mad Men or Breaking Bad because we already know the answers to most of those shows' mysteries. We never got to that point with Lost.

I think your argument holds more weight if you focus on something other than the Polar Bear decision. That really has to be the smallest of issues I've heard of.

People asked "what's a polar bear doing on the island?" and we got the answer.

But now we need to know why again? Come on...
 
oatmeal said:
Why is everything so dramatic with you?
No one is saying "keep it to yourself OR ELSE"... just you.
Ah, sorry, it wasn't my intent to sound dramatic. I was referring to the "pleasant comments" I'm getting (there's a couple of them right above, for example).
 
Erigu said:
Ah, sorry, it wasn't my intent to sound dramatic. I was referring to the "pleasant comments" I'm getting (there's a couple of them right above, for example).

I know the comments you're referring to. I called you a hurt pussy.

Twice! :lol

I'm just saying that every one of your replies has been coated with this conceit that makes it very hard to take seriously.
 
oatmeal said:
I think your argument holds more weight if you focus on something other than the Polar Bear decision. That really has to be the smallest of issues I've heard of.

People asked "what's a polar bear doing on the island?" and we got the answer.

But now we need to know why again? Come on...
I think you misunderstood. I agree the polar bear issue it an incredibly small one, and one I don't really care about at all (I just thought the turn of phrase cyclonekruse used was very, very funny). I was just using polar bears as an example, but there were a million other, actually important ones I could have used, which all suffer from the same basic structural problems.
 
oatmeal said:
I know the comments you're referring to. I called you a hurt pussy.
Twice! :lol
Oh, right! :lol

Anyway, I don't care much about that kind of reactions, but you can imagine what I think about being told (basically) that it's my own fault for voicing my opinion. Apparently, I should have just said that "I didn't think the show was all that great".

I'm just saying that every one of your replies has been coated with this conceit that makes it very hard to take seriously.
Oh? 'Not sure I see what you're referring to exactly, but okay? ^_^;
 
Blader5489 said:
Yes, that is exactly what I told you.
I know: I was basically quoting you, there. ^^;
My point is, I don't see why I should sugar-coat ("change around", even, here) my opinion like that.
 
Erigu said:
I know: I was basically quoting you, there. ^^;
My point is, I don't see why I should sugar-coat ("change around", even, here) my opinion like that.

No, that last post was sarcasm.

I didn't tell you to change your opinion to "I don't think the show is all that great." You said, in one of many transparent backpedaling attempts, "durr I'm only insulting you guys because I don't know how to criticize the show without criticizing its fans hurrr"
(added tone of stupidity for heightened effect)
I made a suggestion, you apparently didn't think that my phrasing was scathing enough, so how about this:

"I think Lost fucking sucked in every way possible, but I can see that there are people who don't think like that and actually really liked the show. So, agree to disagree, I guess."

There. That is one way you can criticize the show without insulting its fans.

Have I been able to explain that well enough to you? Is that broken down and explained as fucking clearly as possible? Because I would sure hate to be misquoted and misunderstood again.

Nobody gives a fuck what you think about the show (except for maybe cyclone who, for reasons that are known only to him, decided to entertain your quote war-style of arguing for a time). Not because what you have to say is negative and we simply can't handle whatever truths you think you're landing on us, but because you came into the thread just acting like a jerk and insulting people, and have since tried to backpedal that into playing the victim and trying to talk about the details of the show, even though that discussion is just another thinly-veiled attempt at insulting the people here again. You come into a thread acting like that, people are going to respond in kind with "gtfos" and the like.


tl;dr - Get a life. Move on. The show is over.
 
Blader5489 said:
No, that last post was sarcasm.
Oh, my bad.

"I think Lost fucking sucked in every way possible, but I can see that there are people who don't think like that and actually really liked the show. So, agree to disagree, I guess."

There. That is one way you can criticize the show without insulting its fans.
That sounds optimistic to me. I really don't think it would go over that well...

you came into the thread just acting like a jerk and insulting people
C'mon, if anything, I was insulted by a bunch of people...

and have since tried to backpedal that into playing the victim and trying to talk about the details of the show, even though that discussion is just another thinly-veiled attempt at insulting the people here again.
It really isn't.
 
This is the song that doesn't end...yes it goes on and on my friend...

SOME PEOPLE, STARTED SINGING IT NOT KNOWING WHAT IT WAS, AND THEY'LL CONTINUE SINGING IT FOREVER JUST BECAUSE...
 
Snuggler said:
I also loved the scene with the knife toss and Locke's epic speech about boars.

I also love the scene where Ben strangles Locke, how intense was that!?

Or when when we saw smokey in first person view in "The Substitute"

Or when we saw the number on the hatch for the first time.

Or when Alex got killed by Keamy and Bens reactions.

Or when Eko found his brother in the plane

Or when we saw how Locke ended up in the wheel chair

Or..... nawwww this show sucks
 
Matt said:
In Lost's world, however, we do need to be told why some random scientists thought it would be a better idea to train polar bears to turn a random magical donkey wheel rather then, you know, turning it themselves, or using a robot, or just leaving it alone, because otherwise these events happening just seem strange and random to the viewer.
I think the consensus is that the Polar Bears weren't brought to the island to be trained to turn the wheel, they were already there being experimented on by Dharma. That's what the Hydra facility was, a zoological research station, and it hosted seemingly many animals.

And we know why they won't turn the wheel themselves. When drilling into the chamber a man had a nose bleed, collapsed and the drill melted. Does that sound like something you'd want to mess with? It's the same reason they created the fail safe key in the hatch instead of just doing whatever it does from day 1 -- nobody wants to volunteer to mess with the unknown, especially when that unknown relates to what Dharma knows can be very dangerous energy. So no, I don't think it's a leap at all to assume that upon getting through to the wheel, they used their bears, which they know can be trained, instead of turning it themselves.

Facts: Dharma experiment on animals, including bears which they can train to do things. Dharma have found a wheel that they believe "manipulates time" and involves dangerous energy that can destroy metal and injure man. The wheel leads to Tunisia. Charlotte finds a Dharma polar bear in Tunisia.

I honestly can't believe that, using information given in the show, it requires one to "jump through mental loops" to make the "mess seem reasonable". You can argue that each factor is ridiculous, but that's just the nature of the show. It still, with regards to this mystery, forms a cohesive whole which works requiring no huge logic leaps, aside from the ones one has to take to even watch the show in the first place that deal with accepting a magic island that can move through time. But if you find concepts like that laughable, then there is no debate here. It just isn't a show for you.
 
hamchan said:
Just a bunch of people who can't let go.

I'm still having trouble letting go, too. :(

I listen to the opening/closing music of The End at least a few times a week
and still go to DarkUFO daily out of habit
.
 
Snuggler said:
Remember when Hurley got the old van to work and they went for a ride in it? I really liked that scene.
I sometimes take the more lighthearted moments for granted, but the Losties starting up the Dharma van has got to be one of my favorite scenes, nay, favorite episodes of the entire series. The title alone (Tricia Tanaka is Dead) would be enough to seal the deal, but there's so much more to it.

It had everything I absolutely loved about the show, especially well-written, believable dialogue. Unconventional character interactions was a plus as well. Hugo, James, Jin, Charlie, Roger and Vincent just hangin' out; being dudes. How dope was that?!

I also loved how effortlessly they integrated and advanced Charlie's season-long "ya gonna die" arc. Everything coalesced into a fine little treat. Season 3 had a number of these wholly satisfying episodes, so that's why I appreciate that season so much (Polar bear cages and "Stranger..." be damned).
 
^ That's actually pretty neat :lol

He/she really made the most out of that small space. It's like a virtual LOST playset.
 
Catalix said:
I sometimes take the more lighthearted moments for granted, but the Losties starting up the Dharma van has got to be one of my favorite scenes, nay, favorite episodes of the entire series. The title alone (Tricia Tanaka is Dead) would be enough to seal the deal, but there's so much more to it.

It had everything I absolutely loved about the show, especially well-written, believable dialogue. Unconventional character interactions was a plus as well. Hugo, James, Jin, Charlie, Roger and Vincent just hangin' out; being dudes. How dope was that?!

I also loved how effortlessly they integrated and advanced Charlie's season-long "ya gonna die" arc. Everything coalesced into a fine little treat. Season 3 had a number of these wholly satisfying episodes, so that's why I appreciate that season so much (Polar bear cages and "Stranger..." be damned).

Which is why "Some Like It Hoth" is the best episode of the series.

:D
 
BenjaminBirdie said:
Which is why "Some Like It Hoth" is the best episode of the series.

:D
We gave you shit for it back then, but honestly, I'm finally starting to see why you fell madly in love with it now :lol
 
So my dad started season 3 yesterday, only to get a call saying my grandfather was in the hospital from a car accident. Luckily, he's okay and just had a little bit of neck and back pain. He's back and home and everything now. Anyways, my dad finished up the first episode and watched the second one today.... that's only two episodes, which is a lot less than the eight episodes a day he did for like the past 2-3 days. I have a feeling he's basically losing interest now. Hopefully I can convince him to get past the first few episodes of season 3 so he can get to the good stuff.
 
psst...
I pissed in the coffee pot.

qqsqah.gif
 
But it didn't explain the food drops. And I'd expect them to explain the food drops (in a way that actually makes no sense, naturally).
'Cause, y'know. Hurley and food.
...
Because he's fat.
 
WELL you have to give this to the writers, apparently they managed to make something like food drops and incredibly interesting and relevant topic among viewers
 
brandonh83 said:
WELL you have to give this to the writers, apparently they managed to make something like food drops and incredibly interesting and relevant topic among viewers

Viewers who want an excuse to hate the show, you mean :p
 
butter_stick said:
Viewers who want an excuse to hate the show, you mean :p

I don't know I just never gave a shit about the food drops, I guess mainly because I didn't ever think it would wind up being a big deal... and 'lo and behold!
 
brandonh83 said:
I don't know I just never gave a shit about the food drops, I guess mainly because I didn't ever think it would wind up being a big deal... and 'lo and behold!

I assumed it was the island has a weird relation to time and somehow a food drop from the 70s ended up getting sent 30 years in to the future. Then I stopped thinking about it.
 
brandonh83 said:
I don't know I just never gave a shit about the food drops, I guess mainly because I didn't ever think it would wind up being a big deal...
Well, there's this island that appears to be magically out of reach (which is why the main characters aren't getting rescued, and a big bummer for one guy named "Widmore"), and yet some planes are dropping food there every now and then. That's somewhat important.
And then, there's the fact DHARMA is still sending food to their guys in the Swan station... but isn't replacing them? I mean, they're only in charge of saving the world every 108 minutes. No biggie. Let's just send them some food once in a while and everything should be alright.


butter_stick said:
I assumed it was the island has a weird relation to time and somehow a food drop from the 70s ended up getting sent 30 years in to the future.
It would have to be more than just the one food drop we saw in the series, as the Swan station was filled with DHARMA food when the castaways got in...
 
Erigu said:
Well, there's this island that appears to be magically out of reach (which is why the main characters aren't getting rescued, and a big bummer for one guy named "Widmore"), and yet some planes are dropping food there every now and then. That's somewhat important.
And then, there's the fact DHARMA is still sending food to their guys in the Swan station... but aren't replacing them? I mean, they're only in charge of saving the world every 108 minutes. No biggie. Let's just send them some food once in a while and everything should be alright.



It would have to be more than just the one food drop we saw in the series, as the Swan station was filled with DHARMA food when the castaways got in...

Uh oh, he's doing it again.

I wonder who makes Don Drapers suits, and I don't mean the company, I mean the little asian kids that make them for 20 cents a day. What's their names?

I love Mad Men, just sayin' WHO FUCKING CARES
 
Yeah, put me in the I-don't-give-a-shit-about-food-drops camp.

I can maybe hazard an explanation, but I couldn't care less about it :lol .
 
I don't care either way myself, but the food drops are still going to be addressed in the epilogue anyway. We just don't know to what extent. The time travel delayed drops are still my favorite theory, and the most clever solution... which probably means the real explanation won't be nearly as cool :lol.


goddammit, I was honestly really excited to see
WALT FUCKING TELEPORTING LIKE A mini-BOSS
. The very idea seemed so gratifying to me, because it'd probably allow us to finally piece together a few other mysteries as well.

Plus, it woulda just been plain bad-ass :lol "I can go to the Island whenever I want to, BITCH."

oh well...
 
Catalix said:
I don't care either way myself, but the food drops are still going to be addressed in the epilogue anyway. We just don't know to what extent. The time travel delayed drops are still my favorite theory, and the most clever solution... which probably means the real explanation won't be nearly as cool :lol.


goddammit, I was honestly really excited to see
WALT FUCKING TELEPORTING LIKE A mini-BOSS
. The very idea seemed so gratifying to me, because it'd probably allow us to finally piece together a few other mysteries as well.

Plus, it woulda just been plain bad-ass :lol "I can go to the Island whenever I want to, BITCH."

oh well...

I agree with every single character written here.
 
Honestly I don't think the real epilogue will be as enticing as those "spoilers." :lol

btw they're not really spoilers, so... why tag them :D

edit: nvm omg that was awesome
 
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