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[Catalix]

They're going to address the hurley bird :lol

:lol

Also, we got confirmation that Jorge did indeed record the numbers message that we heard in S5.
I'm thinking either they did that simply to fuck with us, or they might've dropped a potential Dharma-related Hurley storyline. As Jorge said, sometimes things just slip through the cracks.

 

[dave is ok]

I'm just curious as to how people can slam the actual ending itself over this. Were the performances bad? Was the dialogue bad? Editing? Camerawork? What about the ending sucks, exactly? When I see people bashing the ending, I think of pretty much from the point where Jack and Kate arrive at the church, to the very last shot. I'm just really confused about what part of any of that could possibly be considered bad. It wasn't a cop out. It wasn't all a dream. They weren't dead the whole time. Just trying to understand how the ending was bad. You can be disappointed with the lack of answers, you can be disappointed that certain things that you personally needed to happen didn't happen, but let's face it, none of us knew where it was going to go. No one guessed the ending at all. I can't think of a single thing about the ending that was actually lacking, from either a technical or emotional standpoint.

Yeah, it would have been pretty dicky of the writers to force us to watch some storylines for hours upon hours and then just throw a "None of this mattered, they were all dead the whole time" curveball at us in the final scene.

Oh wait, that is what this season did.

 

[Solo]

:lol :lol :lol :lol

 

[brandonh83]

Yeah, it would have been pretty dicky of the writers to force us to watch some storylines for hours upon hours and then just throw a "None of this mattered, they were all dead the whole time" curveball at us in the final scene.

Oh wait, that is what this season did.

I'm talking about the island events, about how people guessed that they died when the plane crashed. It's unfortunate that I actually had to clarify that but I'm feeling pretty fucking generous today.

 

[yoopoo]

Waiiiiitttt a minute, in the flash sideways, Ben was taking to his father and commenting on how they're glad they got off the island? What did that mean?

Did I imagine that?

 

[Zeliard]

Yeah, it would have been pretty dicky of the writers to force us to watch some storylines for hours upon hours and then just throw a "None of this mattered, they were all dead the whole time" curveball at us in the final scene.

Oh wait, that is what this season did.

This season showed that they were dead in the flash sideways, but this season also introduced the flash sideways. What we've been watching for "hours upon hours" over the years is people living a rather fucked up life, but living it, nonetheless.

 

[gdt]

Yeah, it would have been pretty dicky of the writers to force us to watch some storylines for hours upon hours and then just throw a "None of this mattered, they were all dead the whole time" curveball at us in the final scene.

Oh wait, that is what this season did.

........................wait................................what?

 

[Catalix]

What's this?

On the Jay and Jack show, Jorge said that Hurley and Miles continued their conversation on the trust-worthiness of the ghosts that Hurley speaks to (After Michael influenced him to blow up the Black Rock TNT). They go back and forth, debating the nature of Juliet's "it worked" line; what it truly meant.

 

[Zeliard]

On the Jay and Jack show, Jorge said that Hurley and Miles continued their conversation on the trust-worthiness of the ghosts that Hurley speaks to (After Michael influenced him to blow up the Black Rock TNT). They go back and forth, debating the nature of Juliet's "it worked" line; what it truly meant.

This is the second awesome Miles segment they shouldn't have cut. There was another one, but I can't remember what it involved except that it was something that really should not have been cut.

 

[The Elite]

........................wait................................what?

I guess there are people who still don't understand the ending.

 

[Costanza]

Yeah, it would have been pretty dicky of the writers to force us to watch some storylines for hours upon hours and then just throw a "None of this mattered, they were all dead the whole time" curveball at us in the final scene.

Oh wait, that is what this season did.

:lol

 

[Solo]

I guess there are people who still don't understand the ending.

bubububu he watches Breaking Bad - he MUST be so much smarter than LOST-watching plebes!

 

[Kurtofan]

Yeah, it would have been pretty dicky of the writers to force us to watch some storylines for hours upon hours and then just throw a "None of this mattered, they were all dead the whole time" curveball at us in the final scene.

Oh wait, that is what this season did.

Are you fucking serious?

 

[Veidt]

bubububu he watches Breaking Bad - he MUST be so much smarter than LOST-watching plebes!

:lol

 

[kaizoku]

MIB was too dangerous to set free, is right but it's also like saying that science is too dangerous to meddle with. He was dangerous because he was clever and he could lie and see through other's lies. Worst of all he was curious. Intelligence, curiousity, ability to think for himself - all very anti religion. If the whole world thought like that, religion would die and that's why the religious side say he's bad and must not be allowed to leave.

This is just like a symantic analysis and is just one aspect of the tapestry but it's definitely there.

When we say he's too dangerous to set free, we get a glimpse at human nature, how we've been led to think this prisoner is the root of all evil. Fact is he was the gentler person who has become wild because he's been treated like a wild animal and had to do that to survive.

What we've missed is that claire also adapted to a more wild lifestyle yet we had to force her to come with us. I think that was why claire went the way she did, so the writers could make this parralel.

FUCKING AWESOME!!!

 

[Catalix]

bubububu he watches Breaking Bad - he MUST be so much smarter than LOST-watching plebes!

:lol Must go through his mind every time he hits submit post.

 

[yacobod]

Are you fucking serious?

i think he might be talking about the flash sideways (purgatory) mechanism in s6 idk, i'm actually curious how the flash sideways will hold up upon rewatch on the season knowing now what we know, i'll hold off on criticism now, but they might seem pretty pointless in hindsight on a rewatch

 

[dave is ok]

Spoiler

I know they weren't dead on the island. The hours I am referring to are the hours spent watching Sawyer go on a blind date, watching Jack watch his son play the piano, watching Ben try to steal the Principals job, etc.

I defy anyone to explain why those hours were important.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

What's sad is that if MIB was freed, he would be a nobody in the outside world, die as a hobo and curse himself for believing the hype of the outside world.

He became a mere mortal when the cork was released and he was left as a mere mortal. The Island would've sunk and Jacob would've been sailing to the unseen world, only to realize that he isn't so special anymore or can't destroy or fix anything,

 

[Solo]

i think he might be talking about the flash sideways (purgatory) mechanism in s6 idk, i'm actually curious how the flash sideways will hold up upon rewatch on the season knowing now what we know, i'll hold off on criticism now, but they might seem pretty pointless in hindsight on a rewatch

Er, what? They already hold a lot more weight now that we know what the X-timeline was. Jack invented a kid to get over his daddy issues, for christsakes! That kind of self-inflicted shit is awesome.

 

[brandonh83]

i think he might be talking about the flash sideways (purgatory) mechanism in s6 idk, i'm actually curious how the flash sideways will hold up upon rewatch on the season knowing now what we know, i'll hold off on criticism now, but they might seem pretty pointless in hindsight on a rewatch

The flash sideways told us the story of how everyone finally ended up getting where they need to be in order to be awoken. It was a story in of itself. Despite my love for it, I actually understand where you might be coming from, but I still disagree because like I said, it was a journey for them regardless.

 

[VistraNorrez]

Yeah, it would have been pretty dicky of the writers to force us to watch some storylines for hours upon hours and then just throw a "None of this mattered, they were all dead the whole time" curveball at us in the final scene.

Oh wait, that is what this season did.

Or they didn't. I and others have expressed the theory that the X is not some fantasy land. It's a legit reality. Just their last level of rebirth. The things they did there were important for their souls. They still had to develop them further to move on and let go. There was nothing pointless about the X timelines in terms of character development.

 

[Nameless]

The ending was fantastic. People who are disappointed with the ending seem to be the people who wanted more answers. My question is, what the fuck do answers have anything to do with the actual ending itself? Yeah, the show is about the characters and I don't want to keep drilling that into people's skulls, but I have to bring that up because the ending focused on the characters. Answers have nothing to do with the way the overall story wraps up. The answers we got came before the ending, but the finale combined with the last 3 or 4 episodes painted a clearer picture of what's going on on the island and a better understanding of its power.

I'm just curious as to how people can slam the actual ending itself over this. Were the performances bad? Was the dialogue bad? Editing? Camerawork? What about the ending sucks, exactly? When I see people bashing the ending, I think of pretty much from the point where Jack and Kate arrive at the church, to the very last shot. I'm just really confused about what part of any of that could possibly be considered bad. It wasn't a cop out. It wasn't all a dream. They weren't dead the whole time. Just trying to understand how the ending was bad. You can be disappointed with the lack of answers, you can be disappointed that certain things that you personally needed to happen didn't happen, but let's face it, none of us knew where it was going to go. No one guessed the ending at all. I can't think of a single thing about the ending that was actually lacking, from either a technical or emotional standpoint.

This. Spot on post bro.

Dave is Ok just made my second point for me about many people who didn't like the finale.

 

[brandonh83]

The hours I am referring to are the hours spent watching Sawyer go on a blind date, watching Jack watch his son play the piano, watching Ben try to steal the Principals job, etc.

Sawyer going on blind dates but not ever being satisfied or successful with anyone is because he's not supposed to be with anyone besides Juliet.

Jack watching his son play piano encompassed about 2 or 3 minutes of screentime, not sure how to address that one.

Ben trying to steal the principal's job relates to Ben manipulating and double-crossing people and how in the flash sideways, he overcomes this horrible side of himself.

 

[Drealmcc0y]

Spoiler

I know they weren't dead on the island. The hours I am referring to are the hours spent watching Sawyer go on a blind date, watching Jack watch his son play the piano, watching Ben try to steal the Principals job, etc.

I defy anyone to explain why those hours were important.

Important character study :/

 

[Solo]

I defy anyone to explain why those hours were important.

To resolve the issues that went unresolved when they all died.

- Jack never got closure with his father. So he invented a son to tackle his daddy issues
- Locke never got over killing his father. So he made himself a cripple again as punishment
- Ben never got over getting Alex killed. So he made a reality where he did right by her and her mother
- etc.

They all had to get past their issues before they could move on. I thought this was pretty obvious.

 

[Kurtofan]

Er, what? They already hold a lot more weight now that we know what the X-timeline was. Jack invented a kid to get over his daddy issues, for christsakes! That kind of self-inflicted shit is awesome.

Yes rewatching will add more sense to the sideways now that we know that it's Purgatory.
Ben's dilemma makes so much sense now for example.

 

[brandonh83]

To resolve the issues that went unresolved when they all died.

- Jack never got closure with his father. So he invented a son to tackle his daddy issues
- Locke never got over killing his father. So he made himself a cripple again as punishment
- Ben never got over getting Alex killed. So he made a reality where he did right by her and her mother

Damn this is some Silent Hill shit right here, which helps explain why I love season 6 and the way it ends so much. It's very much character driven and got way more psychological than any other season of the show.

 

[Kurtofan]

To resolve the issues that went unresolved when they all died.

- Jack never got closure with his father. So he invented a son to tackle his daddy issues
- Locke never got over killing his father. So he made himself a cripple again as punishment
- Ben never got over getting Alex killed. So he made a reality where he did right by her and her mother
- etc.

They all had to get past their issues before they could move on. I thought this was pretty obvious.

Sawyer became a cop to atone for his conman past,also for the man he killed in Sidney.

 

[Solo]

Sawyer became a cop to atone for his conman past.

And made himself unable to find love over the guilt of his true love dying.

 

[yacobod]

sawyer kills anthony cooper, locke didnt have the balls to kill his old man

 

[The Elite]

And made himself unable to find love over the guilt of his true love dying.

Shit, there are so many layers here. It's going to take a long time to dissect the flash-sideways story.

I'm going to be honest, I can understand why the majority have trouble with that particular aspect of the season. Each episode demands quite a bit from the average viewer who is simply looking for a good hour of entertainment. There's a shit load of subtext in each episode that is simply lost on them despite what they may think of the whole.

I'm not saying they're stupid. I'm just saying they aren't looking for it.

 

[Drealmcc0y]

To resolve the issues that went unresolved when they all died.

- Jack never got closure with his father. So he invented a son to tackle his daddy issues
- Locke never got over killing his father. So he made himself a cripple again as punishment
- Ben never got over getting Alex killed. So he made a reality where he did right by her and her mother
- etc.

They all had to get past their issues before they could move on. I thought this was pretty obvious.

I dont understand the locke one, why would locke feel guilty about killing his dad?

The only thing i can think of is because locke is a farmer not a hunter, if you get what i mean

 

[dave is ok]

To resolve the issues that went unresolved when they all died.

- Jack never got closure with his father. So he invented a son to tackle his daddy issues
- Locke never got over killing his father. So he made himself a cripple again as punishment
- Ben never got over getting Alex killed. So he made a reality where he did right by her and her mother
- etc.

They all had to get past their issues before they could move on. I thought this was pretty obvious.

That's just like your opinion, man.

They didn't show Locke grieving his father at all. Hell, he's the one who had him killed. He brought the body to Ben and they never talked about it ever again. I'm not going to go on a case by case basis here, but I'm guessing this theory doesn't hold up for every character - especially Kate, who's X storyline is basically the same as her actual storyline except for a few comments about how "she was innocent".

The flash sideways told us the story of how everyone finally ended up getting where they need to be in order to be awoken. It was a story in of itself. Despite my love for it, I actually understand where you might be coming from, but I still disagree because like I said, it was a journey for them regardless.

It just seemed like a rehash of S4 to me. Instead of "I wonder what Jack does when he gets off the island!", it's "I wonder what Jack is doing in this alternate universe!". I don't particularly feel like the finale redeemed the 15 episodes leading up to it with the twist that they were all dead and meeting up again to 'move on'. I didn't dislike the finale, but I did think the entire season of X dimension plotlines was pretty close to pointless.

 

[Solo]

I dont understand the locke one, why would locke feel guilty about killing his dad?

Because even after all the shit Cooper pulled on him, Locke knew he shouldnt have killed him. Thats why he couldnt even do it himself.

 

[Drealmcc0y]

Shit, there are so many layers here. It's going to take a long time to dissect the flash-sideways story.

I'm going to be honest, I can understand why the majority have trouble with that particular aspect of the season. Each episode demands quite a bit from the average viewer who is simply looking for a good hour of entertainment. There's a shit load of subtext in each episode that is simply lost on them despite what they may think of the whole.

I'm not saying they're stupid. I'm just saying they aren't looking for it.

which is why lost is so awesome!

it doesnt give in to the casuals, it gives a big fuck you to anyone who doesnt pay attention

 

[Kurtofan]

I dont understand the locke one, why would locke feel guilty about killing his dad?

The only thing i can think of is because locke is a farmer not a hunter, if you get what i mean

Locke feels guilty because deep down I don't think he hated his dad(look how he takes care of him in the FS,and how he wanted to talk to him even after he stole his kidney)

 

[brandonh83]

That's just like your opinion, man.

They didn't show Locke grieving his father at all.

...

 

[Solo]

sawyer kills anthony cooper, locke didnt have the balls to kill his old man

Thats kind of the point. Its not that Locke wont kill someone - we know he will. But he has to feel justified in doing so. The fact that he couldnt bring himself to kill Cooper tells you that its going to be something he regrets.

Honestly, Locke was pretty much still willing to give Cooper the benefit of the doubt after everything. Like Jack, all he wants is his daddy to love him

 

[Drealmcc0y]

Locke feels guilty because deep down I don't think he hated his dad(look how he takes care of him in the FS,and how he wanted to talk to him even after he stole his kidney)

locke just wanted his daddy

 

[Kurtofan]

I love how FS Kate is innocent in her reality.
Does that mean that she doesn't feel any remorse for killing her stepfather...or for killing MIB?

 

[oatmeal]

My problem with the ending, errr...people HATING the ending is this:

If the show hadn't cut to the church and just had Jack walk to his spot, lay down and die, would it have been so bad? He saved his friends, he killed the bad guy, he died doing it. BAM. The end.

Straight forward, but fitting.

Well...that IS the ending. The flash sideway was just what happened AFTER...they were telling the second half of the story the entire time.

So what's wrong with the ending?

(EDIT)
The twist doesn't affect the ending at all, it's supplementary to the main story.

 

[Drealmcc0y]

kate stopped running away in the FSW, she came back for Claire

 

[dave is ok]

Thats kind of the point. Its not that Locke wont kill someone - we know he will. But he has to feel justified in doing so. The fact that he couldnt bring himself to kill Cooper tells you that its going to be something he regrets.

Honestly, Locke was pretty much still willing to give Cooper the benefit of the doubt after everything. Like Jack, all he wants is his daddy to love him

I think the point of the Cooper stuff was that Locke wasn't a killer. And him knifing Naomi in the back was the biggest leap the show ever took with that character, even Terry O'Quinn said that scene was bullshit and something Locke would never have done.

 

[infinityBCRT]

Spoiler

I know they weren't dead on the island. The hours I am referring to are the hours spent watching Sawyer go on a blind date, watching Jack watch his son play the piano, watching Ben try to steal the Principals job, etc.

I defy anyone to explain why those hours were important.

I'll stick with answering the easy one. Jack learned how hard it was to be a father, he got to be in his father's shoes and got to understand his father better. In the end, he also got to experience that father-son relationship that he never had.

Whether or not Jack is dead, what hes experiencing in purgatory is still real to him. His journey continued after his death. The point of the flash sideways was to complete everyone's character arc, let them go full circle, and have them be at peace with their life.

 

[dave is ok]

kate stopped running away in the FSW, she came back for Claire

You're kidding right?

All the X timeline Kate did was run away.

 

[Drealmcc0y]

You're kidding right?

All the X timeline Kate did was run away.

yeah but she came back for claire, im not really gonna defend "what kate does" though. I hated that episode

 

[gdt]

You know, Kate's FS doesn't hold up post finale.

What, exactly, was she subconsciously working through?


Can we just write this in the "Kate episodes suck" column?

 

[SpeedingUptoStop]

Kate's FS is definitely gonna need close attention on rewatch, because it's certainly the biggest thing I dismissed this year until the end.:lol :lol

 

[brandonh83]

Well...that IS the ending. The flash sideway was just what happened AFTER...they were telling the second half of the story the entire time.

The only problem I had with the flash sideways being an epilogue is when I didn't know that the flash sideways was the afterlife for the characters. What's so incredible about the storytelling is that they can't move on without Jack, and Jack can't move on without them. How they managed to tell the island story, to show us Jack's death at the approximate time Jack realizes he died in the flash sideways, is extremely powerful.

The only thing that kind of confuses me is Desmond. He knows about the flash sideways during the island events, but did he know that it was an afterlife? Did he know exactly what he was doing?