LOST 06.17/18/18.5: "The End" (Everything Else Was Just Progress)
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Willy105 said:
It's supposed to address (among other things)
Walt and the Dharma food drops.
meppi said:Oh come on, I already bought Season 1 & 2 on DVD and season 1 through 5 on bluray.
It'll be on the regular S6 dvd set too. I'm not sure why Emerson keeps insisting it's exclusive to the complete series set. :lol
peterb0y said:
I don't agree. Lost hypes a lot, but it delivered plenty of times from my experience.
In fact, the only time I was disappointed with the series was that
the characters didn't go home at the end of Season 3, and we had to wait until the end of Season 4 to see it happen in the present. But it was OK, because Season 4 was one of the best seasons.
Anasui Kishibe
Banned
Blader5489 said:
seriously? no, really, are you serious?
Catalix
And on the sixth day the LORD David Bowie created man and woman in His image. And he saw that it was good. On the seventh day the LORD created videogames so that He might take the bloody day off for once.
Sure, most of the show's "mysteries" can be reasonably deduced based on information we already know. Most, not all, of course.Anasui Kishibe said:
Anasui Kishibe
Banned
Catalix said:
tee hee
there's so much left unexplained..
evil solrac v3.0
Member
Anasui Kishibe said:
tell us then since you threw down the glove.
Anasui Kishibe
Banned
evil solrac v3.0 said:
I'll paraphrase some guy:
Why is DHARMA logo based on the South Korea flag? What was the significance of the HANSO Corporation? Why did turning the wheel transport you to the Gobi Desert, and move the island through time? What was the significance of Hurleys numbers? Why didnt Jacobs brother have a name? Why a smoke monster that clearly GREW as each season progressed? What was the DHARMA Initiative and what was with all the stations scattered about the island? Why could no child born to The Others survive, and what happened to The Others anyway? What's the light? How (and why) did Walt contact his father on the computer after he was kidnapped? The ONLY computer on the island was the Apple in Desmond's hatch. Why did Faraday's "test missile" fired from Whitmore's ship take an additional 45 minutes to reach the island (more "time travel" issues) and why could you only escape the island if you followed the *exact* heading of 315'? Why did Faraday's mother and Desmond know what was going on while no one else did? What was the point of any of that?
Back during Season one, a lot of people were speculating on blogs dedicated to the show that "everyone on the plane had been killed and they were all in heaven/hell/limbo." That particular bit of speculation became SO pervasive, the writers of the show actually released a statement assuring fan that "No, the passengers are not dead." Flash forward six years and guess what? They're all dead. And all we got is a load of red herrings
Anasui Kishibe said:
Whoa.
I am starting to wonder if you are serious.
Why is Darth Vader's helmet black? If he had normal eyes why did he have to see through shades? If the Death Star is the size of a small moon, wouldn't gravity inside be out of whack? Who names their dog Indiana?
SpeedingUptoStop
will totally Facebook friend you! *giggle* *LOL*
Where did the fucking polar bears come from.
Anasui Kishibe
Banned
Willy105 said:
yeah well, sorry if a philosophical, soap operish saccharine ending which felt like a complete cop out couldn't make me forget some of the questions writers so diligently put into my mind episode after episode trying to create a show full of mystery
Catalix
And on the sixth day the LORD David Bowie created man and woman in His image. And he saw that it was good. On the seventh day the LORD created videogames so that He might take the bloody day off for once.
but... most of your pressing issues aren't really legit in the first place. The show isn't at fault if you're the one asking completely erroneous questions.Anasui Kishibe said:
LOST ain't perfect, but your post clearly indicates you got a misplaced chip on your shoulder.
cyclonekruse
Member
It's actually based on a dharma wheel and the lines are actually trigrams that are used to symbolize certain things.Anasui Kishibe said:
Alvar Hanso funded the Dharma Initiative (obviously an expensive endeavor). One of his ancestors was also a crew member on the Black Rock.
The donkey wheel was somehow connected to the Source (i.e. the light). The light is a huge source of electromagnetic energy. Messing with it will mess with space-time. Why the Gobi Desert specifically? Who knows? Does it really matter?
They were part of an equation that was developed to predict when humanity would destroy itself. Also, they correspond to some of our heroes as degrees on the dial in the lighthouse. How that works in anyone's guess. I suppose if you combine the two, you can say that our characters were the variables in the Valenzetti equation while the numbers were the constants.
It didn't matter. It was a nameless evil.
Probably just a stylistic choice. Or perhaps a metaphor for how the monster became a bigger and bigger problem or something.
They were a research group devoted to changing the variables in the Valenzetti equation in such a way as to prevent the destruction of mankind. In the end, I suppose they did have a part in that. They were integral in allowing Jack and Co. to kill Flocke and prevent him from ending the world. Maybe the Losties really were the variables in the Valenzetti equation.
Why the stations? Well, their research spanned a lot of different areas and building the stations was probably the best way to do their research. Some stations were actual research stations (e.g. Hydra and Orchid). And, being scientific research, controlling the environment is essential. So some stations were constructed to make sure no unexpected visitors showed up, throwing off the results (e.g. Looking Glass). Last, the Swan was built with research originally in mind but ended up being a release valve to keep the island (and the research taking place on it) intact.
The Incident where the H-bomb was detonated threw pregnant ladies' immune systems out of whack. Their bodies started attacking their babies. The Others mostly were killed off. Some by Smokey. Some by Widmore.
The Source of life, death, and rebirth. If you believe Crazy Momma. What's for certain is that it is a source of EM energy in vast quantities. And it's likely the light on the island is the same as the light at the end of the series, implying it truly does have something to do with life, death, and rebirth in the form of the afterlife. Beyond that...who knows?
First, we saw other computers on the island. The one Locke plays chess on comes to mind. Second, I think it's implied that there were several unseen computers on the island. And it's likely that Walt never actually contacted Michael. That was probably a ruse that the Others used to lure him out so he could ultimately bring them Jack, Kate, Sawyer, and Hurley.
Edit: Now that I think about it, I can't remember what was said between Michael and Walt in the exchange in the hut. Walt might have found a computer to contact Michael with. In that case, he contacted Michael so he could maybe get away.
The EM on the island causes weird time dilation issues. The test missile was just to show that. And it was implied that people couldn't get off the island because that's the way Jacob wanted it.
Desmond's consciousness was able to travel between the Island and X-World. It was unhinged due to him encountering large amounts of EM. So he saw both places. In the X-World, he was the first to realize they were all dead and the first to remember his past life. Faraday's mother must have come to that realization sooner. But unlike Desmond, she didn't want everyone to move on.
Most of the show was real. Christian said so in the end. The only thing that might be considered to not be real was the X-World of Season 6. All of the on-island stuff happened. So when the writers were saying the passengers were not dead, they weren't lying. Unless they said that during the sixth season, I guess.
cyclonekruse said:
The numbers were the variables in the Valenzetti equation, so it syncs up pretty nicely:
4, 8, 15, 16, 23, and 42 are the variables in an equation to determine the fate of the world.
Locke, Hurley, Sawyer, Sayid, Jack, and Jin/Sun are the final candidates who will determine the fate of the island (and by extension, the world).
cyclonekruse
Member
Blader5489 said:
I figured it would by like 4x*8y*15z/16p*23q*42r=Death. Or something. The numbers were constants that didn't change. But they were associated with variables that did.
Either way, it does seem that the variables in the equation correlate to our Losties.
Darth Tigris
Member
Dunno if this has been posted here already or not, but Zachary Levi (Chuck) is my new Hollywood hero.
http://www.excessif.com/serie-tv/vi...-se-lache-sur-la-fin-de-lost-5897234-760.html
http://www.excessif.com/serie-tv/vi...-se-lache-sur-la-fin-de-lost-5897234-760.html
Catalix
And on the sixth day the LORD David Bowie created man and woman in His image. And he saw that it was good. On the seventh day the LORD created videogames so that He might take the bloody day off for once.
Good interview. I feel his points are 100% valid. I agree with a lot of what he said, although I honestly don't feel cheated myself.Darth Tigris said:
:lol He even touched on the
polar bears
He criticized AtS heavily though, calling it "too broad"big ander said:
and I wouldn't pay much mind to the JJ shout out. He's probably just covering his bases/kissing ass.
cyclonekruse
Member
Darth Tigris said:
I think his criticism is a little off base. To me, the writers seemed like they knew what they were doing for the most part. Most of the questions on the show were answered in some way, shape, or form. It's just that you have to do some work to get to those answers as they were not all obvious.
To an extent, that's fine. For the more esoteric or tangential details, it's perfectly acceptable that people have to research things to figure out their meaning. For more integral things, though, the answers should be more obvious. There's a balance between providing just bread crumbs that lead to answers if you look and just plain giving answers. And I do have to admit that toward the end, Darlton seemed to lose that balance for me.
Case in point, the sickness. It was explained as a thought sickness of sorts where you lose your humanity because Smokey convinces you that you're evil. But if you're convinced that you're not evil, you can redeem yourself and find your humanity again. That's what was going on with Sayid, as far as I understand it. And they should have explained that more explicitly in the show. It's not something you can just guess from the clues.
So I admit that Lost wasn't perfect and did miss a few times. But to say that you were robbed because the mysteries weren't solved is off base. The mysteries got mostly satisfactory answers in my mind. They might have been better served by including some in the actual show as opposed to DVD extras or by explaining them more explicitly. Or even less explicitly (as in the case of the Ghost Whisperer answer). But the answers ARE there. And for the most part, they mesh with the rest of the storyline (i.e. they make it seem like the writers knew what was going on).
As for Zachary's criticism that the answers like the Light in the cave were "too broad," well at some point you're either going to have to go with "unexplained magic" or "midichlorians." Darlton chose the former. They could have gone with "Goddidit" but I think that would have cheapened the experience for a lot of people. Allowing the light to be up for interpretation is better. It could be God or it could just be special light. I'm okay with that mystery not being answered.
evil solrac v3.0
Member
Anasui Kishibe said:
never , EVER paraphrase that moron again.
Naked Snake
Member
Anasui Kishibe said:
/facepalm
Holy shit, seriously dude, every question you posed was answered.
cyclonekruse said:
I think the writers confirmed that it was in fact Walt on the computer. I saw it in the "Access Granted" feature on the blu-ray of season 3.
Tim-E said:During the show's last year, I worried what ABC/Disney will do with the franchise to milk it and told myself I'd not watch any of it, but in all honesty, I miss this show so much I'd give them money for any horse shit milking they could come up with.
We are like the original Star Wars/Star Trek fans :/.
30 years from now, we'll pay lots of money to get a fat and balding Josh Holloway's autograph
.SpeedingUptoStop
will totally Facebook friend you! *giggle* *LOL*
and that god damned punk ass J.J. Abrams will reboot our shit with a hip new movie.
:-[
:-[
Catalix
And on the sixth day the LORD David Bowie created man and woman in His image. And he saw that it was good. On the seventh day the LORD created videogames so that He might take the bloody day off for once.
We all saw how badly Josh Holloway let himself go over the season 5-6 break.
Extend that over 20 years :lol
Extend that over 20 years :lol
I think we let Lost off the hook a bit too easily quite frankly.cyclonekruse said:
Im a huge Lost fan. I used to spend nights at the Lost Bar in Newyork like a complete nerd watching this show. And yes, I did a Lost scavenger hunt. I dont personally feel cheated by the finale, I feel cheated by the whole series.
I actually liked the finale a lot. It wrapped up the show decently well and it was entertaining throughout but it had to be the biggest cop out Ive ever seen put to television. They made the finale so much about the characters that you kind of forgot this show was mostly about the island and I cant believe people can seriously feel otherwise.
Most shows are about the characters. But Lost built their story around the mystery behind the island and these characters. Seasons hinged on the mysteries and questions they posed and a lot of the most suspenseful moments centered around them as well. I was a HUGE lost defender when people said "they dont answer any questions" because you knew that they eventually would answer the questions and sometimes they did. I personally stopped paying attention to most Ben Linus scenes because I knew we wouldnt find out whether or not he was telling truth until a later episode. This is how you begin to watch Lost. You watch now, and find out more about it later.
But they did far too much of this and a lot of things went unanswered.
And Im not talking about the big things like the light and the wheel but even smaller things like the food drop or why Ben had Sayid kill so many people off island. A simple rewatch would show many of you that they really did choose to not address a lot of things. Normally this wouldnt be an issue but when the events were happening they made a BIG FUCKING DEAL about them. They were set to dramatic musics, played before commercials, ended seasons and when all was said and done they end up not mattering because of some convenient writing during the finale? I dont buy this. I dont really care about the wheel and the light or even the time travel. These things would be too hard to explain and I wouldnt want them to. But before this show got a bit (for lack of a better word) ridiculous there were definitely a lot of things that were grounded in reality that they chose not to touch on.
You cant pick and choose what to explain and what not to. You either explain all of it or nothing at all. The inbetween they chose seems random with no rhyme or reason to it. There were some things they could explain and some things they couldnt. The things they couldnt explain (or didnt have the chance to explain) they hoped we would either forget or stop caring about. But here's my question. Why pose the question in the first place if you have no intention of answering it?
After all the hype behind the final eventually wore off, I began to realize that I had been had. I recently watched that collegehumor vid laying out all the questions they left unanswered and I got a rather grim view of how fucked this show actually was. I still love it to death but I wish they would have went about this better. They pretty much threw so much at us that we forgot what they didnt answer or what they didnt elaborate on. So in this way, yes they did cheat their fans. I wish so many of you would stop defending them. I almost feel there needs to be a massive rewatch so we can truly see what happened to us. I dont think we've all seen the light.
Dear Lost writers:
Dont piss on my back and tell me its raining.
Drealmcc0y
Banned
You feel cheated because they didnt answer enough.
Make a big fucking list, and i will answer most of them.
Like that one example you gave about Sayid killing people for Ben but not explaining why :lol it was widmores men durrrrrrr
Make a big fucking list, and i will answer most of them.
Like that one example you gave about Sayid killing people for Ben but not explaining why :lol it was widmores men durrrrrrr
cyclonekruse
Member
.GqueB. said:
I would venture a guess that 90% of the questions from that video were either answered, things that you can make reasonably good guesses at, or completely irrelevant.
The only questions really left on my personal list are:
1. What's the deal with Walt?
2. Who dropped the food pallet?
3. Who was shot in the outrigger?
4. How was Jacob able to leave the island?
5. What was going on when the smoke alarm went off after Jack saw Christian?
And, as I understand it, 1 and 2 will be addressed when the DVDs come out. I also recognize that 3 isn't super important to the overall narrative and 4 can be somewhat guessed at. 5 can be answered by saying Jack was tripping out on his meds but that's a little weak, I feel. So if they could give a better answer, I'd appreciate it.
Besides that list, there are some things that I'd kind of like confirmation on, but it's not really a big deal to me.
I'm sure a couple more things will pop up on the rewatch that I'm currently doing with friends (it's their first time through). But I doubt they are major enough to sour the show for me. I'm actually becoming more impressed seeing how seemingly forgettable scenes have new meaning for me or are foreshadowing in some way ("See you in another life, brotha"). Knowing things like Smokey being Christian in "White Rabbit" makes the whole episode have a different feel. I remember first watching it and thinking Jack was just dehydrated or losing it.
I guess the real question is what do you feel was left unanswered? You might be surprised to find out that it was, in fact, answered.
Drealmcc0y
Banned
cyclonekruse said:
This. Seriously theres not that much.
I think the answer to how Jacob can leave the island is simple. The protector of the island creates "the rules" of the island as they see fit, so he created a rule that would allow him to leave whenever he wanted to.
Catalix
And on the sixth day the LORD David Bowie created man and woman in His image. And he saw that it was good. On the seventh day the LORD created videogames so that He might take the bloody day off for once.
But in addition, just because tons of things were answered, doesn't mean it always resulted in a satisfying payoff.
Like this shit. So... limp :/Drealmcc0y said:
Drealmcc0y
Banned
Catalix said:
why...?
NobleXenon
Member
I don't know if any of you watch the Nostalgia Critic, but he made a cartoon about the series finale of Lost last year.
http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/thatguywiththeglasses/cs/11035-cslost
I don't know if he is serious or not, but this was right after season five. I believe it was season five when the polar bear answer couldn't have been more spoon-fed if Dr Pierre Chang looked at the camera and explained it slower. I just want to know if he's trolling the people who still ask this ridiculous question or is in fact serious? If he's serious, I loose a lot of respect for him as a competent reviewer.
http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/thatguywiththeglasses/cs/11035-cslost
I don't know if he is serious or not, but this was right after season five. I believe it was season five when the polar bear answer couldn't have been more spoon-fed if Dr Pierre Chang looked at the camera and explained it slower. I just want to know if he's trolling the people who still ask this ridiculous question or is in fact serious? If he's serious, I loose a lot of respect for him as a competent reviewer.
I don't see why they would even introduce "the rules" if they had no intention of shedding any light (hurr hurr) on them at all. They hint that MIB is bound by Jacob's rules, but we don't know what they are. Levi is totally right about Across the Sea, it answered things, but its so broad that its two steps away from useless.
I just don't know why they couldn't have just written the endgame (which they apparently knew from the beginning) in a way that was clear and didn't overcomplicated things. Instead of introducing many things but being vague about them all, they could have introduced a few things and fleshed them out.
I just don't know why they couldn't have just written the endgame (which they apparently knew from the beginning) in a way that was clear and didn't overcomplicated things. Instead of introducing many things but being vague about them all, they could have introduced a few things and fleshed them out.
Catalix said:
Oh definitely, and it does annoy me the way Darlton answers a lot of questions. Across the Sea being the best example; it answered the show's biggest mysteries, but did so in as vague a manner as possible, which really shouldn't be necessary in the third-to-last episode of the series.
Even still, you never hear the complaint "I don't like the way they gave that answer." It's always "they never answered anything," which couldn't be further from the truth.
Catalix
And on the sixth day the LORD David Bowie created man and woman in His image. And he saw that it was good. On the seventh day the LORD created videogames so that He might take the bloody day off for once.
Well first, the almighty "Rules" are way too vague of a concept for me to actually take seriously over an extended period of time. What is the extent of the rule making? how does Jacob enforce the rules? Why would he even create such a retardedly dysfunctional rule :lol? I understand it gives the writers enough wiggle room to amend them when convenient, but c'mon.Drealmcc0y said:
Less importantly (but still kind of intriguing), how does Jacob actually, y'know, leave? Boat? Teleportation/astral projection like Walt? maybe both? neither? "He just does, ok!"...uh, sure, whatevs. Not everything needs to be annoyingly obtuse. I LOVE mystery, but I see no benefit in the way they approached it there. Certain things are only alluring up to a certain point, then it becomes an unnecessary obstacle in suspending my disbelief.
I mostly look the other way whenever they pull weak stuff like that, because the writers have proven amazingly competent time and time again. They've so earned that bank of good will. But those annoying glitches stack up after a while, and start to interfere with my enjoyment of the main narrative. I can only cut my beloved LOST crew so much slack, here...
Yeah, definitely a lot of misguided complaints from the haters. Often times I think they actually mean the former, but express rage concerning the latter.Blader5489 said:
cyclonekruse
Member
Drealmcc0y said:
That explains why he could leave and Smokey couldn't. But did he use the donkey wheel to travel off the island? I just keep running into logistical issues when I think of possible answers. Such as how he funds his traveling. And how he gets back. It's not that critical. Just something that bugs me.
I did just have an interesting thought, though. What if Jacob was Alvar Hanso? Would certainly explain the Others' deep pockets.
Catalix said:
Oh sure. I think there were some lazy answers. Or answers lazily given (I'm looking at you ghost Michael). But, for the most part the answers were there.
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