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[Montresor]

Same thing for Desmond. Just because we see Desmond first doesn't mean the rest of the people in the epilogue didn't exist yet. We just see him first, it doesn't mean he died first or anything like that.

Let me ask a question that might clarify my issue. When Whidmore brings Desmond to the island and exposes Desmond to electromagnetic radiation, what happens to Desmond? Does his consciousness time-travel far into the future to a time when he is dead and in purgatory? The same way Desmond's consciousness was travel-traveling in Season 2 and in The Constant?

 

[DarkWish]

Let me ask a question that might clarify my issue. When Whidmore brings Desmond to the island and exposes Desmond to electromagnetic radiation, what happens to Desmond? Does his consciousness time-travel far into the future to a time when he is dead and in purgatory? The same way Desmond's consciousness was travel-traveling in Season 2 and in The Constant?

My interpretation was that Desmond was in a near-death experience when blasted with electromagnetism. It was enough for his mind to be in the purgatory, but thanks to him being special, he survived. The reason I say this is cause when Juliet died, the last few things she said and her last thought were things she said in purgatory. She was nearly dead. So I think it was a near-death experience that made Desmond's mind go to purgatory for a brief time.

 

[Erigu]

the show never explicitly states that the Losties on the plane live normal lives off the island, and that Hurley protects the island for millenia

Aside from the "millennia" part, I'd say it's pretty explicit, actually... There's that scene with Hurley and Ben, outside the church ("You know, you were a real good number two." / "And you were a great number one, Hugo."), and Christian then spells it out in the church ("All those people in the church... They're real too." / "They're all... They're all dead?" / "Everyone dies sometime, kiddo. Some of them before you, some... long after you.").

and that after countless years nature buries the island under the sea.

You mean, that shot in the season 6 premiere? Nah, I'm pretty sure that was just some leftover from back when the flashsideways were supposed to be a parallel timeline... Before the writers went "ah, fuck that shit! let's just say it was limbo! the suckers will probably think that's deeply spiritual or whatever..."

You're right, they don't explain why they recur everywhere, but I'm satisfied enough with the following assumption: Jacob is supernatural, and he pulls strings behind the scenes to compel people to come to the island, and he has a thing for numbers, and so he inserts these numbers in bizarre places just for the heck of it. *shrug*

"God is a weird guy who does random shit, and he just happens to like those numbers" was pretty much the only possible explanation anyway, yeah... I wouldn't call it "satisfying" at all though.

in the few moments before Locke broke the computer, Desmond was examining the information from the surveillance station (its name escapes me), and data from the day of the crash proved to Desmond that the station really did store dangerous electromagnetic energy. Once he realized that the station brought down Oceanic 815, he realized the importance of pushing the button.

And that's quite the late realization, considering Locke told him when their plane crashed back in the very beginning of the season already... Why didn't Desmond connect the dots back then? Those listings from the Pearl didn't tell him anything new.

But even ignoring that, Locke and Desmond's sudden decision that the button was bullshit "so fuck it and let's get drunk!" was ludicrous to begin with...
Locke used to believe the Swan video, but then saw the Pearl one, and decided to trust video #2 over video #1 for no good reason whatsoever (because the whole thing being a hoax would totally explain why he could walk again, what that luminous monster was, how he had prophetic dreams, etc? whatever, Locke...).
As for Desmond? Well, he was sure the button did something... until Locke told him about video #2. And we know how convincing that one is.
Long story short: the characters were turned into complete morons just so the plot would go from A to B.

Good point. I don't know either. I can just shrug and say "she's just all powerful, dude."

I think the writers just wanted to come up with their own version of the Matrix's Oracle...
And how would they explain that later on? The usual "oh, we'll think of something! ... or not: we don't give much of a shit, really!"

Desmond shows up in purgatory before anyone else dies...

Just imagine the limbo scenes all take place in AD 5478...
Or better yet, try not to think too hard about it. The writers sure didn't.

It doesn't matter what happened to the survivors after they left to the island, they obviously lived their lives (especially Hurley and Ben).

Utterly boring lives, apparently. It looks like they never met anybody that mattered to them after the MiB fiasco...
Kinda sucks for their kids, too... "Hope you enjoyed your stay in limbo, Aaron and Ji Yeon! We're moving on, now, whether you're ready or not!"
(and of course: "Clementine who?")

the show never says the island was buried in real life (it being shown buried on the flashsideways just seemed like a cool opening, not an actual plot point, since it was never brought up again).

Who cares, right?

I always assumed she got it from Farradays book. We only saw a few pages of that book and it could be safe to assume the rest was just filled with stuff that happened to him and those around him so when she killed him and got his book, she had access to all that information.

Even ignoring the fact that book wasn't in her possession the last time we saw it (Sayid used it to work on the bomb, and she was then knocked out by Richard, so...), why/how would her son write down where Desmond would want to go and buy a ring for Penny, or when the-man-with-the-red-shoes would die?


EDIT:
On Lost's legacy. Apart from the fact the guy is terribly mistaken regarding the quality of the writing on Lost, that's pretty much it, yeah. Thanks, Lost.

Also noteworthy: pokerwraith's comment regarding the "J.J. Abrams method". After all, he's the original "why should we bother with answers? as long as the suckers keep watching because they think they're coming, what difference does it make for us?" dude. And when was the last time he saw a show he created to the end, again? Felicity (and what an end that was!)? He's got that "not giving a shit" thing down to a fine art by now.
(of course, shows like Alias and Fringe aren't as bad as Lost, in that area: they weren't/aren't so reliant on empty promises of "answers")

 

[Drealmcc0y]

I just had this moment of realization about the FSW.(I know this is something brandon touched upon, but im going a little further)

What if the FSW is something not everyone goes through and is something very rare. Maybe this is the only time it has ever happened?

So all the people in the church were involved with the island, only they could come together in death(you, me and everyone else on the planet wouldnt).

Heres the most important bit:

What if, like we presumed at the beginning of the season that the nuclear bomb DID cause the sideways. Yes thats right, it did!

After everything that they had been through in seasons 1-5, the island(light) granted them access to the FSW. The FSW of course is the light.

Thats why people like Jacks mum or Hurleys mum didnt show up, because they weren't part of the island.

 

[Erigu]

Thats why people like Jacks mum or Hurleys mum didnt show up, because they weren't part of the island.

Neither was Penny.

 

[Lard]

My interpretation was that Desmond was in a near-death experience when blasted with electromagnetism. It was enough for his mind to be in the purgatory, but thanks to him being special, he survived. The reason I say this is cause when Juliet died, the last few things she said and her last thought were things she said in purgatory. She was nearly dead. So I think it was a near-death experience that made Desmond's mind go to purgatory for a brief time.

That's rubbish.

 

[Catalix]

I just had this moment of realization about the FSW.(I know this is something brandon touched upon, but im going a little further)

What if the FSW is something not everyone goes through and is something very rare. Maybe this is the only time it has ever happened?

So all the people in the church were involved with the island, only they could come together in death(you, me and everyone else on the planet wouldnt).

Heres the most important bit:

What if, like we presumed at the beginning of the season that the nuclear bomb DID cause the sideways. Yes thats right, it did!

After everything that they had been through in seasons 1-5, the island(light) granted them access to the FSW. The FSW of course is the light.

Thats why people like Jacks mum or Hurleys mum didnt show up, because they weren't part of the island.

I remember Nameless strongly believing that was the case since the finale. I kinda like the idea behind it, but I honestly don't see the correlation at all. What exactly did the bomb do to help create the sideways?

 

[DarkWish]

That's rubbish.

Not really, makes sense to me. If you don't like that explanation, great. But it makes sense for me.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

the thing with erigu is i'm convinced even he doesn't understand what he types and therefore confuses himself. I could answer each and every question and counter every thing that he thinks is an answer of his, but he's not physically and psychologically capable of understanding any perfectly logical answers that we give him. for example

And that's quite the late realization, considering Locke told him when their plane crashed back in the very beginning of the season already... Why didn't Desmond connect the dots back then? Those listings from the Pearl didn't tell him anything new.

Desmond din't put two and two together because Locke didn't give him an exact date of when the plane crashed now did he? it wasn't until he went back and really looked at the data that he *GASP* put it all together.

You mean, that shot in the season 6 premiere? Nah, I'm pretty sure that was just some leftover from back when the flashsideways were supposed to be a parallel timeline... Before the writers went "ah, fuck that shit! let's just say it was limbo! the suckers will probably think that's deeply spiritual or whatever..."

they never said it was limbo, but the great erigu is the only one of us who knows for a fact that the writers fucked up and the rest of us don't. yes, that makes perfect sense.

"God is a weird guy who does random shit, and he just happens to like those numbers" was pretty much the only possible explanation anyway, yeah... I wouldn't call it "satisfying" at all though.

one of themes of the show was fate and chance. clearly beyond you.

Utterly boring lives, apparently. It looks like they never met anybody that mattered to them after the MiB fiasco...
Kinda sucks for their kids, too... "Hope you enjoyed your stay in limbo, Aaron and Ji Yeon! We're moving on, now, whether you're ready or not!"
(and of course: "Clementine who?")

we might as well have the show run 50 years so we can cover every base and every point of the characters lives, it's the only proper way to do a story. please don't lower the rest of us to your level.

the rest of your posts are the same annoying drivel that you think passes for articulate dissertation of a show and it's plot. but you keep at it and maybe one day you'll be able to convince one soul that Lost was the worst show ever.

 

[Tabris]

Listening to "Moving On" for the first time outside the show and I literaly got shivers when the "There's No Place like Home" part gets into full swing.

 

[Erigu]

the thing with erigu is i'm convinced even he doesn't understand what he types and therefore confuses himself. I could answer each and every question and counter every thing that he thinks is an answer of his, but he's not physically and psychologically capable of understanding any perfectly logical answers that we give him.

Does that mean you finally have a coherent answer to that simple question I asked you back in October?

Desmond din't put two and two together because Locke didn't give him an exact date of when the plane crashed now did he?

Season 2, episode 2:

KATE: We were in a plane crash.
DESMOND: Were you now? And when was that?
LOCKE: 44 days ago.
DESMOND: 44 days?

they never said it was limbo

Have you watched the last episode of the series? I'm sorry if I spoiled that for you!

one of themes of the show was fate and chance.

And that allowed the writers to go and say "well, all those extremely strange and seemingly arbitrary things happened because they did: it was all arbitrary after all, and that's all there is to it despite our numerous teases over the years"?
Well, that certainly makes the writing process easy as pie. I'm sure screenwriters everywhere are taking notes.

we might as well have the show run 50 years so we can cover every base and every point of the characters lives

Just kidding, of course: the writers would have needed a time machine to go back in the past and rewrite the flashsideways so the final explanation would make more sense. Oh, and the motivation to actually do that. I don't think they had that either.

 

[Suairyu]

Regarding the numbers, I always figured the numbers were some universal truth. They were bigger than Jacob. He, like the scientists trying to save the world, stumbled upon them whilst doing his own thing. Lots of things were revealed to be bigger and older than Jacob in season 6. They, like most things 'explained' in season 6, were only explained in the way of how they affected the immediate plot action, not why they existed in the first place. (See: obvious signs of civilization with the cork)

And I was under the impression it wasn't Desmond's ability to survive electromagnetism that allowed him to survive turning the failsafe, but turning the failsafe that gave him the ability to survive electromagnetism.

 

[Erigu]

I was under the impression it wasn't Desmond's ability to survive electromagnetism that allowed him to survive turning the failsafe, but turning the failsafe that gave him the ability to survive electromagnetism.

Could be. It was never really made clear either way (why bother, after all?).

 

[Drealmcc0y]

I remember Nameless strongly believing that was the case since the finale. I kinda like the idea behind it, but I honestly don't see the correlation at all. What exactly did the bomb do to help create the sideways?

Well it wasnt really the bomb.

It was more like, everything they had been through in the five seasons and the bomb was the catalyst moment that made the FSW, because the light(island) allowed it so.

So everyone else in the world, just moves into the light, but without their loved ones and without overcoming problems in their lives.

But cause of what the losties had been through the island allowed them "to remember and to let go"

 

[Erigu]

everything they had been through in the five seasons and the bomb was the catalyst moment that made the FSW, because the light(island) allowed it so.
So everyone else in the world, just moves into the light, but without their loved ones and without overcoming problems in their lives.

Isn't that nice.

Like Catalix, I'm not seeing it, really.

 

[Drealmcc0y]

Erigu doesnt see it.

Shockhorror!

 

[Erigu]

Nope, not seeing any compelling argument. And you're right: that's hardly shocking.

 

[Drealmcc0y]

I dont think you need to buy my interpretation.

I just came up with it and I really like it, so im going to stick with it, because it makes me satisfied.

I just thought i would share.

 

[Erigu]

I dont think you need to buy my interpretation.
I just came up with it and I really like it, so im going to stick with it, because it makes me satisfied.

But what makes you think the bomb had anything to do with the limbo thingy, exactly?
And what makes you think the main characters have some kind of "special status" over regular folks, in that afterlife?

 

[brandonh83]

But what makes you think the bomb had anything to do with the limbo thingy, exactly?

Probably because when Juliet made the bomb go off, shortly afterwards she's heard saying the same exact things in the flash-sideways that she says to Sawyer when she's dying.

"It worked" and "we could go Dutch."

 

[Erigu]

Who's to say it has something to do with the bomb rather than her dying though?

 

[Drealmcc0y]

But what makes you think the bomb had anything to do with the limbo thingy, exactly?
And what makes you think the main characters have some kind of "special status" over regular folks, in that afterlife?

Well like I say, the bomb was the catalyst moment.

Everything they had gone through in seasons 1-5, the light granted the access to this FSW.

They get this status because of everything they had involving the island.

This is why aaron was a baby and Ji Yeon a fetus because thats the status they were in when they were on the island.

This is why there is no Nadia.

I understand your argument with Penny. Its probably the writers bending the rules slightly here. They had to have Penny in the church with Desmond. But if you really want an answer then, you can just say 1) She did have some involvement with the island even if it was just minimal. or 2) Desmond is an electromagnetic extraordinaire and bent the rules himself.

 

[brandonh83]

Who's to say it has something to do with the bomb rather than her dying though?

I don't know I think the finale told us that it wasn't just random blabbering and I don't think it's coincidental that it happens right after the detonation.

Of course, I won't pretend to understand the logistics of most of this stuff since not much was elaborated upon. I'll give you that. But I think it's okay to discuss maybe's and maybe not's.

Personally, I don't really know what to believe. Something that I've thought about is how the island seems to be able to make things that people believe become reality. Locke believed that he could go on the Walkabout; when he crashes on the island, he goes on a bigger Walkabout than even he could have dreamed.

Then you have cases like Rose, who before crashing on the island, accepted her illness-- maybe the island saw this as an admirable level of inner strength, and it goes away. What I do want to note is that it's never mentioned that Rose's cancer comes back, but as we all know, Locke's ability to walk came and went which was possibly the island testing his faith or something.

I can kind of see this factoring into the bomb detonation. Juliet believed so much in Jack's/Faraday's plan that even after regaining consciousness from a long fall, her only goal and determination was blowing that fucker up. She believed in it hardcore, and maybe this showed the island how strongly the characters believe in one another so that when she blew up the bomb, the nuclear blast didn't exactly create the flash-sideways, but rather, it was the sort of team effort and the level of belief that they all had in one another that gave them the ability to be reunited in the afterlife.

I do think that the flash we see at the end of season 5 is a visual foreshadowing of the FSW in season 6, so yes, I do think that the bomb detonation had something to do with the creation of the FSW, I'm just not sure if it was the actual BLAST, or just the actions that the characters took. I think the truth is in there somewhere.

As for Penny, it was probably something to do with how she actually came out to sea and was close to the island-- she may not have set foot on it but she was close to it and she still had a role to play involving the island and the other characters.

 

[Drealmcc0y]

Personally, I don't really know what to believe. Something that I've thought about is how the island seems to be able to make things that people believe become reality. Locke believed that he could go on the Walkabout; when he crashes on the island, he goes on a bigger Walkabout than even he could have dreamed.

Then you have cases like Rose, who before crashing on the island, accepted her illness-- maybe the island saw this as an admirable level of inner strength, and it goes away. What I do want to note is that it's never mentioned that Rose's cancer comes back, but as we all know, Locke's ability to walk came and went which was possibly the island testing his faith or something.

Something else I realised last night is that the story of lost on the island is "letting go".

I always thought Kates Horse or the Cat sayid see's from his past were MiB observing the candidates. But I dont think so. Its the magic box, the light.

The island gets these things from their past to help me them let go. The FSW was just an extended version of all of this after they died.

I do think that the bomb detonation had something to do with the creation of the FSW, I'm just not sure if it was the actual BLAST, or just the actions that the characters took.

Yep this totally.

I would really like your input of some of the other stuff Ive said like "Ji yeon and Aaron etc" I really enjoy your comments.

As for Penny, it was probably something to do with how she actually came out to sea and was close to the island-- she may not have set foot on it but she was close to it and she still had a role to play involving the island and the other characters.

Yeah this satisfies me.

 

[Erigu]

Well like I say, the bomb was the catalyst moment.

But what makes you think that? How can you tell the bomb changed anything regarding the afterlife?

Everything they had gone through in seasons 1-5, the light granted the access to this FSW.

Same here. What makes you think the main characters had some kind of special status that was granted to them because of "everything they went through on the island" (and that's awfully vague... many of those characters didn't do much of anything / were barely on the show)?

This is why aaron was a baby and Ji Yeon a fetus because thats the status they were in when they were on the island.

What about Hawking, then?

I understand your argument with Penny. Its probably the writers bending the rules slightly here.

And that's supposing those "rules" existed in the first place...
Couldn't "regular folks" go through the same process, in that limbo thingy? Is there any reason to believe they don't?
I mean, you merely extrapolated those "rules" based on who was in that church at the end (it's not like the show / Christian said anything about a "special status"), and you actually had to ignore some stuff in the process... Surely, you can see why I don't find that all that convincing?

I think it's okay to discuss maybe's and maybe not's.

Sure. I personally think it will all be in vain as:
1) the show never elaborated and what little we have seems a tad arbitrary (Penny is there but Nadia isn't? secondary characters "aren't ready yet"? some people aren't real people but some kind of NPCs, like Jack's kid?),
2) the writers have this history of making random shit up without giving any of it much thought (again, does it look like the flashsideways were supposed to be some kind of afterlife to begin with?)
... but of course, it's okay to discuss that. I'm not saying otherwise: I'm discussing it right now, after all.

What I do want to note is that it's never mentioned that Rose's cancer comes back

Well, she does get limbo cancer...

Juliet believed so much in Jack's/Faraday's plan that even after regaining consciousness from a long fall, her only goal and determination was blowing that fucker up. She believed in it hardcore, and maybe this showed the island how strongly the characters believe in one another so that when she blew up the bomb, the nuclear blast didn't exactly create the flash-sideways, but rather, it was the sort of team effort and the level of belief that they all had in one another that gave them the ability to be reunited in the afterlife.

So we do agree that there's no reason to believe a hydrogen bomb (specifically) was needed for that? I mean, what you describe above would apply to any other sacrifice, like Charlie's or Jack's...

As for Penny, it was probably something to do with how she actually came out to sea and was close to the island

Was she? She wasn't even on a boat, by her own admission...
But I guess you could always fanwank something about her showing up on the island sometime after the MiB fiasco or whatever, if you really want to link the mystical powers of the island to that afterlife... I just don't see any reason to think there is/should be such a link, myself.

The island gets these things from their past to help me them let go.

How does any of that help them to "let go", exactly?

 

[Drealmcc0y]

Holy shit, I just had another realization.

When Cooper(Locke s dad) was brought to the island, I always figured the others brought him to the island and Ben was just fucking around with Locke.

But he really was brought there by the magic box(light) and it did this just like Kate's horse and Sayids cat to help him let go.

Quote from "The Brig":

Ben wants Locke to kill Cooper

Locke: "Why are you doing this to me?"
Ben: "You're doing this to yourself, you'll still be the same sad little man who got kicked off his walkabout tour because he couldnt walk. Let go of him John."

 

[Solo]

You are really reaching there, lolz

 

[Drealmcc0y]

You are really reaching there, lolz

wut

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

But what makes you think the bomb had anything to do with the limbo thingy, exactly?
And what makes you think the main characters have some kind of "special status" over regular folks, in that afterlife?

The bomb created the sideways universe. Christian tells Jack himself that it was a place that they created themselves.

The light in the church was the same light that came out of the island.

But really, you can't expect me to expect you take anything seriously when you can't even end a sentence-long post without a snipe like "(why bother, after all?)". I honestly think you are literally physically incapable of accepting divergent opinions about this show. Like you blacked out for a second and then the end of that post was just....there.

 

[brandonh83]

You are really reaching there, lolz

It's Lost, is reaching even possible? The show is out there. Way out there. Some see that as a bad thing, some don't. I certainly don't as I think it all works within its own context but some people need everything to be super duper logical even when dealing with science fiction/fantasy.

 

[Solo]

It's Lost, is reaching even possible?

I'm saying that there is a 0% chance that the writers had that planned in S3.

 

[Drealmcc0y]

I'm saying that there is a 0% chance that the writers had that planned in S3.

had what planned? the hell are you talking about solo?

Nobodys talking about "on the fly since 2004" or w/e

 

[Solo]

had what planned? the hell are you talking about solo?

Nobodys talking about "on the fly since 2004" or w/e

Holy shit, I just had another realization.

When Cooper(Locke s dad) was brought to the island, I always figured the others brought him to the island and Ben was just fucking around with Locke.

But he really was brought there by the magic box(light) and it did this just like Kate's horse and Sayids cat to help him let go.

.

 

[SpeedingUptoStop]

Holy shit, I just had another realization.

When Cooper(Locke s dad) was brought to the island, I always figured the others brought him to the island and Ben was just fucking around with Locke.

But he really was brought there by the magic box(light) and it did this just like Kate's horse and Sayids cat to help him let go.

Quote from "The Brig":

Ben wants Locke to kill Cooper

Locke: "Why are you doing this to me?"
Ben: "You're doing this to yourself, you'll still be the same sad little man who got kicked off his walkabout tour because he couldnt walk. Let go of him John."

The hell?


Naw, man.....naw.

 

[brandonh83]

I'm saying that there is a 0% chance that the writers had that planned in S3.

oh god not this shit again!

I don't really care what they had planned out and when, as long as by the end of the story it can be analyzed and put into some kind of context.

they probably thought "we'll put this here and try to explain it later with whatever direction we decide to take this." wouldn't be the first time and won't be the last. I'll be the first to admit that it might not be the best way to go about something but again it's a sci-fi TV series, I can let it go.

doesn't mean that they didn't have strong ideas about what it all meant at the time of writing, but no, they probably didn't have it 100% locked down. not an issue to me.

 

[Drealmcc0y]

.

"I looked into the eye of this island and what I saw was beautiful"

Same subject season 3 episode 5 "I saw a very bright light, it was beautiful"

I definitely believe they knew it, when they wrote the latter scene.

Agree with Brandon, why are you even bringing this "O no way did they have that planned" shit in here

 

[Drealmcc0y]

The journey of lost on the island is about letting go.

Seriously how many times have the words let go been used on the show.

 

[Solo]

The journey of this thread should have been about letting go months ago.

 

[brandonh83]

I think what Dreal is trying to say is that the island created the visual personas of those objects and characters. if the Man in Black can shift into whatever he wants, well, guess what created the Man in Black? The light, or the island, whichever you want to say. To me this says that whatever the Man in Black can do, the island's power can do.

Solo, the story promotes discussion. Just because you don't really care about it anymore doesn't mean that other people feel the same

 

[Drealmcc0y]

I think what Dreal is trying to say is that the island created the visual personas of those objects and characters.

Yeah it did this to help me let go. Sayids cat, Kates Horse, Cooper.

if the Man in Black can shift into whatever he wants, well, guess what created the Man in Black? The light, or the island, whichever you want to say. To me this says that whatever the Man in Black can do, the island's power can do.

Wow thats really cool!

In the March 26, 2007 podcast, executive producer Damon Lindelof confirmed that the box reference is a metaphor for something else: "It would be kind of silly to walk to the middle of the island and there's a kind of a big large refrigerator box sitting there and Kate's horse comes trotting out and Sayid's little cat... that would be kind of the worst idea in the history of ideas."

I got this from lostpedia.

Shiiiiiiet

 

[Solo]

Solo, the story promotes discussion. Just because you don't really care about it anymore doesn't mean that other people feel the same

I'm only down on it because the discussion is usually a regurgitation of topics already discussed to death.

 

[Drealmcc0y]

I'm only down on it because the discussion is usually a regurgitation of topics already discussed to death.

This magic box discussion, is relatively fresh i think.

All im getting is "hell naw" or "no way did they know that back then"

 

[Erigu]

When Cooper(Locke s dad) was brought to the island, I always figured the others brought him to the island and Ben was just fucking around with Locke.
But he really was brought there by the magic box(light) and it did this just like Kate's horse and Sayids cat to help him let go.

"The light" sure works in mysterious ways:

COOPER: I'm driving down I-10 through Tallahassee when bam, somebody slams into the back of my car. I go right into the divider at 70 miles an hour. The next thing I know, the paramedics are strapping me to a gurney, stuffing me into the back of an ambulance, and one of them actually smiles at me as he pops the IV in my arm.

... not that him being kidnapped by the Others ever made much sense either, naturally. Random shit is random.

The bomb created the sideways universe. Christian tells Jack himself that it was a place that they created themselves.

... by detonating a hydrogen bomb? I don't remember that part.

The light in the church was the same light that came out of the island.

It's a light. Can I venture to say lights tend to look alike, or would that come off as racist?

But really, you can't expect me to expect you take anything seriously when you can't even end a sentence-long post without a snipe like "(why bother, after all?)".

Just pointing out a pattern.

I honestly think you are literally physically incapable of accepting divergent opinions about this show.

It would certainly help if I saw some compelling arguments.
Think you could try and provide some, or are you "physically incapable" of it, as a recent conversation seemed to indicate?

I certainly don't as I think it all works within its own context but some people need everything to be super duper logical even when dealing with science fiction/fantasy.

Just because it's science fiction/fantasy, that doesn't mean you can throw consistency out of the window. I know bad writers tend to fall back on that silly argument, but hey...

I don't really care what they had planned out and when, as long as by the end of the story it can be analyzed and put into some kind of context.

I don't care either, as long as the thing is well written/improvised.
But it's not.

"I looked into the eye of this island and what I saw was beautiful"
Same subject season 3 episode 5 "I saw a very bright light, it was beautiful"
I definitely believe they knew it, when they wrote the latter scene.

... and then...

Agree with Brandon, why are you even bringing this "O no way did they have that planned" shit in here

... Wut?
Which is it?

 

[brandonh83]

Well some of the advertisements for the last season were treating the island like it was a chess board. That's partially where the magic box metaphor comes from. The island, with its ability to create visual images of whatever (probably pulling these objects from the pasts of any being that sets foot on the island) uses these things, shows these things to the characters for whatever reason, whether to guide them somewhere or make them think about something.

We all know that the smoke monster is a liar and a manipulator. When he tells Jack that he took the form of Christian, I think it's bullshit. I think it's MIB trying to convince Jack that he's the ultimate power on the island, that there is nothing else. One strong piece of evidence I have for this, and as many others have talked about as well-- Christian's appearance on the freighter.

We know that the MIB can't cross over water, so how would he have gotten on the freighter? I think Christian's appearance to Michael was Michael getting a glimpse at the afterlife/flash-side sideways as he's about to enter it himself. Of course he gets "stuck" on the island in limbo and can't move on.

Since Locke came the closest to convincing Jack that there IS something special about the island, maybe that's why he took Locke's form, as a way of saying look, even this guy was manipulated and was a fool, there is nothing here to save, these aren't the droids you're looking for *whistles Dixie*

 

[calza]

Drealmcc0y and Brandon are ruining Lost for me, can't they just let go and give up with their annoying theories? That magic box one was just ridiculous.

 

[brandonh83]

I don't care either, as long as the thing is well written/improvised.
But it's not.

That's your opinion and I'm not here to contest it.

Drealmcc0y and Brandon are ruining Lost for me, can't they just let go and give up with their annoying theories? That magic box one was just ridiculous.

It's a Lost thread, you know, about discussion. If you can't be objective and maybe listen to what other people think about a particular matter, it's not your place to make posts like that. I'm not pouring my opinions on everyone, but I do enjoy talking about the story.

If you can't deal with me or anyone else putting any level of effort toward analyzing the story, put us on ignore or something. I promise you that it will not hurt my feelings.

Personally it wasn't my intent to have the magic box thing ran into the ground. It was simply a connection I made based on the transcript on the stone cork and thought "hey that's pretty cool." Nothing more.

 

[Drealmcc0y]

Drealmcc0y and Brandon are ruining Lost for me, can't they just let go and give up with their annoying theories? That magic box one was just ridiculous.

Theres alot of terrible things been said in this OT, but i'd vote this as being the worst one.

Im ruining lost for you? WTF

 

[WillyFive]

The theories and speculation is what makes Lost great. It completes it, it makes it live, it's what makes it stand up to other shows out there, and it is why those other shows that try to copy it always fail.

 

[Erigu]

The island, with its ability to create visual images of whatever (probably pulling these objects from the pasts of any being that sets foot on the island) uses these things, shows these things to the characters for whatever reason, whether to guide them somewhere or make them think about something.

How does reminding the characters of their past help them to let go? If I were Kate, seeing that damn horse from my past appear on the island would bring a lot more questions than peace of mind...

We all know that the smoke monster is a liar and a manipulator. When he tells Jack that he took the form of Christian, I think it's bullshit.

Well, he did take Christian's form for Claire, anyway...
As for who Jack saw... considering the apparition's motivations are still as mysteriously mysterious as ever anyway, that's a dead end.
I mean, you can try and make all kinds of theories as to why Christian-or-somebody-assuming-Christian's-form told the dog to go and wake Jack up because he had "work to do", sure... Good luck with that though. I'm fairly confident the simplest one (i.e. it simply was more random shit) is correct.

I think Christian's appearance to Michael was Michael getting a glimpse at the afterlife/flash-side sideways as he's about to enter it himself. Of course he gets "stuck" on the island in limbo and can't move on.

And that makes sense to you?
Of all people, Jack's dad appears to Michael? As a taste of an afterlife he won't be able to reach anyway? Because he's stuck on the island for some reason?

Drealmcc0y and Brandon are ruining Lost for me, can't they just let go and give up with their annoying theories? That magic box one was just ridiculous.

Well, the writers have their share of blame for that one: they opened the door by having Ben say that...

 

[Drealmcc0y]

Isabella: "He doesnt believe you"

Hurley: "Sometimes it takes people awhile"