Erigu said:
Yeah, and thanks again for pointing out that they could continue the show with the surviving characters. That was eye-opening.
I was more wondering about the kind of stories they'd have to come up with. You know, considering they hadn't even managed to properly justify the main conflict in the original show. I guess I don't see that much potential in the adventures of two guys in charge of protecting an island that's unreachable by normal means anyway.
Obviously they wouldn't be the only ones in the new show. I was talking more about taking the Lost formula, and continuing the story, and Ben and Hurley would be obvious returning characters.
Is that your idea of fantasy / sci-fi?
Not in your matter of addressing it, no ("voodo nonsense"). But I do think it's an opportunity to leave behind reality and tell stories that spark the imagination.
Few self-respecting writers would dare doing that kind of stuff
That's quite a thing to say.
It was contrived and nonsensical, and did the supposed "good guys" no favors.
When Jack was taking all those flights and hoping they would crash? Okay, so the character was in a very dark place at that point. Fine. But when half the good guys board that airliner and hope to reenact the initial crash? Not merely as a dark fantasy this time, but as an actual plan that was supposed to work? And viewers are clearly meant to find the whole thing "exciting! (never mind all those other passengers)"? Those are our heroes? Really?
Yes, we found it exciting, because we found no problem with it. It was no longer a dark fantasy, but actual hope that it may work, thanks to stories told during the half of a season that came before it. The show itself doesn't work the same way we are talking here, in separated quotes. It works as a narrative spanning multiple episodes and seasons. If you separate the show quote by quote as you had a habit of doing in the past of this thread, you end up being lost by not finding the context, and therefore think it's a bad show.
And I like how you outright call Widmore a boring background character nobody cared about after the fact. I mean, the show clearly dropped the ball, there, so let's bravely sweep that one under the rug, huh? Never mind the fact he was the main antagonist for an entire season. "Top tier storytelling"!
I don't remember Widmore taking up so much space, but then again I watched the show back to back, and didn't have a week between episodes to imagine how things could go, and then being disappointed in it going in a different direction. I wanted to see what happened next.
Sucks for all those other people, but hey, "what can you do?", right? Omelettes and broken eggs.
Of course, the show never bothered to tell us or the characters why it was so goddamn important that they'd go back quick quick (and it would then demonstrate that there were alternatives anyway, actually), but we were told it was important, and isn't that more than enough?
Again, you're easily fooled by lazy writing.
I thought they only had a certain window for getting back into the island.
Jacob was apparently making the calls, and the guy wouldn't even meet him (but Richard, the advisor? sure).
Which contributed to his anger at Jacob, and I'm sure Jacob trusted Richard more than Ben. "How do you know he's lying?" "He's speaking."
Again, I saw frustration but I don't really remember fear, at the moment... What are you thinking of?
His facial expressions, his reluctance to disobey until the end, becoming a punching bag to simply obey commands, that sort of stuff.
You mean, the kind of plot he could simply improvise in a few minutes one century earlier with Richard?
What if Richard was not as fooled as easily as Ben? Richard and Jacob saw each other, which he could use to his advantage with Ben, who was under Jacob's command but didn't see or understand him.
He proved that with Richard shortly after. And?
The attempt didn't work. In fact, it made Richard Jacob's biggest ally. To Jacob, it would be obvious this was the curse's doing.
Really, now? Man, it's too bad they really never bothered to even hint at that, or even show us in season 6 that he actually cared about that rock (he kept talking about leaving, leaving, leaving). Or, you know, explain how the island was "ruined".
Yeah, he kept talking about leaving a lot, didn't he? Especially how he was trapped there.
Hahaha! Yeah, sure. Nobody cared about them anyway.
That's a nice alternate universe you post from.
It's kinda nice.
Seriously? You actually think you can get away with this shit?
Just because the story doesn't point at a flaw, that doesn't mean it isn't there or "doesn't count".
Nothing to get away with. A flaw can be there, but it's simply not a big deal if it's fringe at best, especially when the story is going in a totally different direction.
It technically is a flaw that there would be electricity down in the old abandoned mines in
Journey to the Center of the Earth, but it wasn't an important matter because the movie was about something else entirely.
I was criticizing the poor handling of the sci-fi elements.
The attention given to it was definitely diminished in later parts of the story as we moved away from Dharma and into to the Island instead.
The Indiana Jones movies weren't dramas, and you need to stop drinking.
I think they were quite dramatic, from opening the ark, to saving the slave children, to drinking the cup, to unraveling the end of the conquistadors.
I don't drink, either. Can't imagine really enjoying anything that way anyway.
When you merely name-drop your supposed themes in episode titles or bits of dialogue but don't actually explore them, I consider that pretense.
I consider the themes very well explored, especially in how they related to different plot threads, from the psychology of each character setting up where each of them stand on the ongoing conflict, the constant contrast between science and mythology, both from Dharma and the Temple and Locke and Jack, from seeking redemption from past mistakes with Ben, Hurley, and Jac, each powering their motivations and their roles in events; to simple recurring themes like coloring of items and their use (cute white rabbits with a huge black number, which contrasted Dharma's experiments on the Island and MiB's constant struggle against Jacob).
"Watching"? Weren't we talking from the perspective of those who make TV shows, there?
I was talking TV shows in general, and continuing their stories.
If I am interpreting this correctly, you are mocking me for not taking you and your argument seriously enough? Here I thought I was talking about Lost on a videogame forum, and enjoying the fact that we can do that.
I don't have any problem with you thinking my argument is poor for this reason or that, because I certainly have a hard enough time taking yours seriously enough to take the time to see what you mean by your comments and see where the problem is. So when I come back empty handed from the wild goose-chase, it's hard for me not to think that your argument has little to no merit at all.
So when we start talking about how seriously sci-fi and fantasy should be considered, and being told I know nothing of what I am talking about for disagreeing, it crosses the line from being an over the top Lost debate to pure self-parody. :/
So, having a tongue in cheek answer about the silliness of it all being responded by ridicule is just crazy. No single NeoGAF thread page should be this tall.
