I still maintain that the monster was always down there, just chillin', and then when MiB fell down there it was all like, WTF. Jacob killed MiB when he slammed his skull into a fucking rock. There are no 'rules' just traditions that have been passed down so long that the islands inhabitants think they're true; Jacob and the Man in Black could kill each other whenever they felt like it.
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Drealmcc0y
Banned
Erigu said:
I didnt bold anything
Drealmcc0y
Banned
Red UFO said:
This is why getting definitive answers is a bad thing.
Using the information we were given, you came to your own conclusion that works best for you.
I have my own answers that I love. I see some people have their own answers and I disagree with them, but I wouldnt tell them they were wrong.
Wouldn't that make the whole show even dumber than it already is?Red UFO said:
My bad: it was bolded in the original post already, indeed.Drealmcc0y said:
So the question now becomes "how did you manage to miss it?"
Why not, when said answers make no sense?
Or does it not matter?
Drealmcc0y
Banned
Erigu said:
It makes sense to me, and thats all that matters
Does that mean you give up on arguing it makes sense here? After all, if all that matters is that it makes sense to you, that means you're simply not open to discussion, right?Drealmcc0y said:
As long as we're clear.
Probably, even, yeah.Red UFO said:
If there were no rules preventing the Man in Black from killing his brother, why didn't he do just that? He had thousands of years and magical smoke powers. Why did he try and manipulate other people to do the deed for him?
Well, if you don't think it matters whether or not the story makes sense, you can just say so, indeed.
Here again: as long as we're clear.
Yup, that's how quality is measured, indeed.Willy105 said:
D
Deleted member 12837
Unconfirmed Member
Erigu said:
Awesome-ness doesn't need to be a measure of quality.
smokeymicpot
Beat EviLore at pool.
At the remaining episodes of season 3 of my re-watch. So fucking good. After Expose this show really kicks off again.
Currently watching season 1 "Homecoming". Episode about Charlie stealing from girl to support heroine addiction.
Ive seen the episode at least 4 times and I just caught "The Office" reference.
When the girl invites hime in for "tea", he asks her where her father is and she responds "I think he's buying some paper company up in Slough."
Awesome.
Ive seen the episode at least 4 times and I just caught "The Office" reference.
When the girl invites hime in for "tea", he asks her where her father is and she responds "I think he's buying some paper company up in Slough."
Awesome.
smokeymicpot
Beat EviLore at pool.
Dany M said:
Same. All the Desmond episodes are so fucking good. One thing I can thank the writers on.
Catalix
And on the sixth day the LORD David Bowie created man and woman in His image. And he saw that it was good. On the seventh day the LORD created videogames so that He might take the bloody day off for once.
Erigu was right, though. This interpretation of the "The Rules" doesn't really add up at all. It'd just make everything on the show even more meaningless.Red UFO said:
I know Jacob and his brother are severely retarded, but even I would give them more credit than that.
Drealmcc0y
Banned
Catalix said:
Its meaningless to you, but he likes it, so let him have it.
Catalix
And on the sixth day the LORD David Bowie created man and woman in His image. And he saw that it was good. On the seventh day the LORD created videogames so that He might take the bloody day off for once.
uh dude... no one's stopping him from concocting his own theories about the show (however faulty they may be).
I think the power of the island manifesting in making these beliefs true. They believed they couldn't kill each other, so they couldn't. Simple as that.Red UFO said:
If we can't believe the island has the power to do something like that then how do we explain Locke being able to walk and Rose being cured of cancer?
I certainly wouldn't argue that Mommy being able to make up rules just like that makes sense (why not make it a rule that nobody can approach the Heart of the Island, while you're at it?). But that obviously is what the the writers had in mind. Mother saying that was they (crappy) justification for all the drama.Red UFO said:
And again, if there were no rules in the first place, that means... what? They heard their adoptive mother say that they couldn't hurt each other, pretty much immediately proceeded to hurt each other, and then all of a sudden decided "oh shit! that was a rule, and it (obviously!) means we're not physically capable of killing one another!"? That makes sense? And the Man in Black then spent centuries plotting his brother's death without even trying to simply kill him?
Show's bad enough as it is, really...
It's bad either way, sure... You'd have to accept the idea that the Man in Black really wasn't trying very hard to escape though, and, dramatically speaking, I'd sooner be willing to believe (read: "fanwank") that the protectors of the island were restricted in terms of what rules they could establish...Red UFO said:
And the show isn't exactly subtle about the "rule" thingy: "hey, maybe one day you'll get to make up your own rules! *wink wink wink*"... To believe that they just thought they couldn't hurt each other, I'd also have to ignore all that heavy-handed "there you go, now stop asking!" stuff. I'd argue that makes it even more of a stretch.
Ah, well. It's probably not really worth it debating which is more nonsensical anyway.
Catalix
And on the sixth day the LORD David Bowie created man and woman in His image. And he saw that it was good. On the seventh day the LORD created videogames so that He might take the bloody day off for once.
It seems LOST had the best of both worlds. We had overarching antagonists like Ben and Widmore that we could watch evolve (or regress) over an extended period of time. But it's nice that we got our fair share of unapologetic one-off villains, like Ethan, Mikhail, or Keamy and the mercenaries. Those dudes were a lot of fun to watch as well, for the short time they appeared.Raiden said:
Catalix
And on the sixth day the LORD David Bowie created man and woman in His image. And he saw that it was good. On the seventh day the LORD created videogames so that He might take the bloody day off for once.
I get what you were going for, and it probably could've fit, but we have seen Jacob's rules physically enforced on a few occasions. Like Michael not being able to die or Jack and the dynamite stick. So it doesn't seem like the rules are just all "in their heads."Red UFO said:
Now how the Island protectors are able to create or enforce The Rules is another story. I doubt it matters anyway...
And yeah, I'm right there with you on that last part. Few shows manage to peirce my heart as much as LOST does, but oh man, much of the mythology ends up being sloppy as hell.
It's a shame we never found out what exactly Ben was referring to when he said "He changed he rules!" It might not even have anything to do with Jacob's brand of super-duper, reality-altering powers. It could have just been a good old fashioned gentlemanly agreement between him and Widmore. Like a "family members are off limits" type of deal.bachikarn said:
But all I can do is speculate, the writers were extra vague about the specifics of the Ben-Widmore feud.
Ethan: "OMG, he has superpowers! How did he manage to hang Charlie while he was being chased? And why did he do that, for that matter? He's like an insane supervillain!" -> Nah, he's just some regular guy.Catalix said:
Mikhael: "OMG, he's still alive after the fence! Wasn't his brain fried?!" -> Again, they're just regular guys. Lucky regular guys. The fence wasn't set to a lethal level, merely to "blood spurting from all orifices" (that's the level you use when you want to be almost safe from possible intruders). Good thing, too, because the plot really needed him. To die. Right after that.
Keamy: "... Just a regular guy, right?" -> Dude, no! He's got that convenient supernatural "cabin fever" (good guys are immune). That's probably why he came up with the worst insurance policy ever.
"If you kill me, you can kiss good-bye to... our... boat...? Wait a second."
It's like he tried really hard to emulate his favorite movie villains but fumbled on that one detail.
... before rushing to that ancient monster summoning device.
Yeah, good luck making sense of all that.
For Ben and Widmore, that appears to be the official explanation, yeah.
"You killed my daughter, and that was against the rules, so now I get to kill yours! The rules have changed! ... Just not to the point where we can actually kill each other though. Not quite."
And that's how Ben could just leave unharmed. And kill a whole bunch of Widmore's men. And threaten his daughter's life. Like a gentleman.
There again, good luck making sense of that.
Catalix
And on the sixth day the LORD David Bowie created man and woman in His image. And he saw that it was good. On the seventh day the LORD created videogames so that He might take the bloody day off for once.
Incredibly benign explanations for extraordinary occurrences sort of became LOST's m.o. over time. I guess the writers used that particualr storytelling technique as a get out of jail free card, when they felt certain elements were getting a little too crazy and needed to be scaled back a bit. Minor retcons (like the nature of Ethan and Mikhail's "abilities") didn't really bother me as much in the earlier seasons though, even when it caused a few plot-related inconsistencies. In those cases, I thought it was handled well enough.Erigu said:
But don't you get it? It was summoning HIM. Case closed.
I just kinda chuckle whenever I try to imagine the circumstances that would lead Ben into thinking the secret Egyptian toilet and The Smoke Monster were inextricably linked. I mean, what hoops did MiB have to go through in order to foster such an esoteric con?
oh wow, they even used the word "gentlemanly" :lol
Finished Deus Ex Machina just now and it got me thinking about the title of the episode and what it refers to in the episode.
The trebuchet Locke and Boone try to use to smash the glass on the hatch is similar to the cranes used to lower actors onto the stage that helped coin the phrase Deus Ex Machina. Just another one of those interesting Lost references.
Its clear that Mr Eko's brothers plane is the Deus Ex Machina. It opened up a number of new plotlines even if it didnt directly solve Lockes problem (opening the hatch). Since using this type of plot device can be considered "cheating" is the episode title a little wink and nod to the viewers?
I tried to see if this was discussed in the OT for this episode. Turns out there were only the 63 replies in the episode thread. Kind of funny considering what a great episode it was. Another great episode, The Variable, ended up with 1700+ replies. Funny to read these threads during a re-watch, lots of funny/insightful stuff.
As I'm rewatching the series on BluRay I have been taking screenshots of various scenes at 1080p. Anybody interested in me uploading and posting some links here?
The trebuchet Locke and Boone try to use to smash the glass on the hatch is similar to the cranes used to lower actors onto the stage that helped coin the phrase Deus Ex Machina. Just another one of those interesting Lost references.
Its clear that Mr Eko's brothers plane is the Deus Ex Machina. It opened up a number of new plotlines even if it didnt directly solve Lockes problem (opening the hatch). Since using this type of plot device can be considered "cheating" is the episode title a little wink and nod to the viewers?
I tried to see if this was discussed in the OT for this episode. Turns out there were only the 63 replies in the episode thread. Kind of funny considering what a great episode it was. Another great episode, The Variable, ended up with 1700+ replies. Funny to read these threads during a re-watch, lots of funny/insightful stuff.
As I'm rewatching the series on BluRay I have been taking screenshots of various scenes at 1080p. Anybody interested in me uploading and posting some links here?
Drealmcc0y
Banned
MacAttack said:
I would like to see those pictures
I think the dream is from MiB.
He is testing Locke to see if he is the perfect candidate for manipulation.
He gives Locke a dream thinking that what lies in the plane is the key to getting into the hatch, but theres nothing in the plane but heroin and Boones death. What does Locke say as its revealed that his sign is faulty? "I dont understand.... I dont understand!" Remind you of anything?
I really like the speech at the beginning of the episode:
Locke: "Its a game, my favourite game actually, I used to play it with my brother, its called mousetrap"
Boy: "How do you play?"
Locke: "Well you start with all these parts off the board, then one by one, you build the trap. Shoe, bucket, tub, piece by piece it all comes together. Then you wait until your opponent lands on the old cheese wheel here and if you set it up just right, you spring the trap."
Godly
TheChewyWaffles
Member
So basically it went bad after season 1...
Drealmcc0y
Banned
Season 6 brought the magic of the island back.
BigNastyCurve said:
The island was still a prominent character through Season 4, and even some of Season 5. It was at its best in Season 1, but it was still an important character until they say "no lol, it wasn't the island, silly, it was MiB and Jacob".
Blader5489 said:
Absolutely not. Just watch some of the early interviews where they describe the creation of the show, and the idea of having the island as the main character.
The characters all referred to the Island as a living breathing thing with a will of its own. Even when Michael dies: "The island is done with you." (don't remember the exact phrasing)
TheExodu5 said:
:lol
That doesn't mean the island is *literally* a character, like Jack or Locke. The island is a character in Lost in the same way that Baltimore is a character in The Wire: it's a setting that affects and is effected by characters, rather than being just a backdrop.
And the line when Michael died was, "You can go now, Michael."
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_Island#PersonificationBlader5489 said:
Drealmcc0y
Banned
Well Locke saying:
"The island brought us here" was just his perception.
He couldnt say "Jacob brought us here"
He had no idea who Jacob was, thats the only way he could make sense of it.
Besides the island is a character, its more than just an island.
"The island brought us here" was just his perception.
He couldnt say "Jacob brought us here"
He had no idea who Jacob was, thats the only way he could make sense of it.
Besides the island is a character, its more than just an island.
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