Why on Earth wouldn't Mind be allowed to talk
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Love Boat 2 [Mafia] |OT| Electric Boogalove
- Thread starter Burbeting
- Start date
Why on Earth wouldn't Mind be allowed to talk
It's not about counting posts, it's about trying to get a sense of player activity and how it relates to every other piece of the puzzle. It's ONE new thing to look at, I'm not saying the answer is plainly there. It was intended to offer a different perspective.
People shit on me as letting them down for posting nothing and then coming out with that, and I guess it's a little expected, but the backlash has felt a bit harsh. Other people have been far less active, but I guess people just want the standard reads lists and a vote to throw some offense?
Muffin1611
Banned
Okay, I've given my take on all of this and how Kark tried to throw shade at my pair for reasons that are applicable to many people is really just reinforcing my opinion of him. Gonna go ahead and vote.
VOTE: Xbro
VOTE: Xbro
Just our argument last night tho because that didn't involve him literally at all. Do you know why he wouldn't be able to post today? I feel like nin has already posted today, so what do you think town gains from following disingenuous narratives meant to misrepresent reality
I mean it's what you've done the entire game so I'm not surprised to see you still being deceptive
You said yesterday that you asked him not to post during your discussion. He didn't posted anymore.
Or, and this is probably a shock to you, it's clear you are trying to play the character that is expected of you while still excusing your inactivity. Aside from some questions, I don't see anything from your post count "analysis"
Hey guys look nin posted just a bit ago but keep being disingenuous
But I'm the passive aggressive one
So why wasn't he allowed to post during our discussion last night? He could have commented on anything else if our talk didn't involve him at all. Or did you just want the stage set on us?
It wasn't so much the no lynch, it was me counterclaiming (as a lie) the doused claim of a scum player. Acohrs had my assist with that, as well as backing off his lynch despite realizing he was probably the arsonist.
None of that matters here, as this is a totally new mafia game; I don't really care to metagame too much, or resurrect older games as "proof" of anything, but I need to defend my honor a little if you're gonna make broad claims about me as a condemnation.
But I'm the passive aggressive one
So why wasn't he allowed to post during our discussion last night? He could have commented on anything else if our talk didn't involve him at all. Or did you just want the stage set on us?
Every time I posted anything last night, you two immediately replied dismissively and showed refusal to even engage my points. You clearly took advantage of the fact that you two were the only players posting to form your own echo chamber thus allowing horrible, hivemind-esque, kneejerk responses like this:
this is still mafia we're playing, right?
I'd expect discourse like this from a poligaf echo chamber. It's clearly driven by an agenda meant to shout me down and embarrass me when I had concerns. I'm not getting Nin1000 involved in that discussion. I can handle it on my own. There's zero reason for him to have been involved other than to check a box to show that he agrees with me (he obviously agrees with me - we are on the same team) or to fill the post with increasingly lower grade discourse.
Why do you constantly move the goal posts? Can you not argue and just argue about what you're talking about without constantly gear-twisting to prove yourself right somehow?
Royal_Flush
Member
Come on now, "post" in the context of contributing always meant "non shitpost post"
Nomadic Sparks
Banned
Are we jocking for position for Day 2 lynch or what?
Samuraischnecke
Neo Member
Ok, I just want to drop in here, what actually bothers me about the Kark-post:
If Kark was pro-town and had an actual "masterplan" or anything valuable in his last post, now, that he sees nobody seems to get it, he should start explaining it, if it was his actual intention to help town win the game.
So many questions (and no answers) about vote-counting just don't mean anything to me personally. Posting itself is dependent on the person itself, on the actual time they have free to spend in here, on the possibilities to take part in discussions as they happen, the skill to ask the right questions, experience in these games so you know what makes sense to write, etc. There's just to much guessing involved in this whole thing and I, who clearly doesn't know anyones behaviour in here, just don't see anything at all.
If it was to offer a new perspective, how you just answered as I started writing... Why now, near the end of Day1? Why not sooner, so you could observe something valuable like an immediate change of behaviour right after you pointed out post counting as a method?
I see the effort... In theory... When I really want to try to see what could possibly be behind this. But I don't see the reason for things like the inactivity, the intentional observing, how you are so persistent about that, etc.
Read lists help after D1, when you see who posted what opinion to which situation about what person. A new method... Is there. Few hours before days end when it's possibly too late because of so many different timezones. If it will ever be a valuable method, which I can not see because of all those methods.
What you given us is just not helpful at all. I don't see him pro-town.
Mostly I see him as the same as I described Ouro a feeeeew posts ago. It's just confusing me.
PS: I always give the chance to answer some of my questions, because I am not so smart sometimes and may overlook important things.
If Kark was pro-town and had an actual "masterplan" or anything valuable in his last post, now, that he sees nobody seems to get it, he should start explaining it, if it was his actual intention to help town win the game.
So many questions (and no answers) about vote-counting just don't mean anything to me personally. Posting itself is dependent on the person itself, on the actual time they have free to spend in here, on the possibilities to take part in discussions as they happen, the skill to ask the right questions, experience in these games so you know what makes sense to write, etc. There's just to much guessing involved in this whole thing and I, who clearly doesn't know anyones behaviour in here, just don't see anything at all.
If it was to offer a new perspective, how you just answered as I started writing... Why now, near the end of Day1? Why not sooner, so you could observe something valuable like an immediate change of behaviour right after you pointed out post counting as a method?
I see the effort... In theory... When I really want to try to see what could possibly be behind this. But I don't see the reason for things like the inactivity, the intentional observing, how you are so persistent about that, etc.
Read lists help after D1, when you see who posted what opinion to which situation about what person. A new method... Is there. Few hours before days end when it's possibly too late because of so many different timezones. If it will ever be a valuable method, which I can not see because of all those methods.
What you given us is just not helpful at all. I don't see him pro-town.
Mostly I see him as the same as I described Ouro a feeeeew posts ago. It's just confusing me.
PS: I always give the chance to answer some of my questions, because I am not so smart sometimes and may overlook important things.
It seems that we played different games.
You're talking to me. Stop quoting Fat and pretending that I was "dismissive" or whatever bullshit you are going with. In between those Fat posts, I was talking to and actually asking you questions. But that has been your play all day, grab low hanging fruit and hope everyone agrees with you. I'm sure next, you'll crop a bunch of posts from me where I was trolly and ignore the ones with substance.
First off, fran is the one who asked you about nin. I had no goal posts to move. Your partner has been useless and has made promises he can't keep.
Second, the point still stands that a random shit post doesn't count as posting.
Nomadic Sparks
Banned
I detect no lies in this post
I detect nothing at all in this post.
Samuraischnecke
Neo Member
I also need to say something about the Darryl/Sorian thing:
As it was with kitsu/Dragonz... I just... Why is are people so agressive? Holy cow.
Like seriously could you stop being passive agressive and "quoting" someone actually offensively? I'm mainly talking about Darryl .
Is that... A playstyle? /o\
Maybe that's just me, but in general behaviour I would not accept anyone talking to me like that. Even if it's a game... It's just a game...
Dude.
As it was with kitsu/Dragonz... I just... Why is are people so agressive? Holy cow.
Like seriously could you stop being passive agressive and "quoting" someone actually offensively? I'm mainly talking about Darryl .
Is that... A playstyle? /o\
Maybe that's just me, but in general behaviour I would not accept anyone talking to me like that. Even if it's a game... It's just a game...
Dude.
This is such a waste of time. I really hope you're scum and wasting my time like this.
Nomadic Sparks
Banned
What is the waste of time? You cherry picking? We can go grab my posts in between Fat's if you'd like:
Check those dismissive posts where I didn't engage you at all or answer questions.
But no, let's quote Fat finally getting tired of your shit and yoloing instead because it supports your narrative.
Royal_Flush
Member
I just found this post while searching for the last votecount.
I was planning to but RL got in the way. I'm also on mobile right now. I'll look into it this night.
Royal_Flush
Member
Oh, we have another hour? I thought it was over in 5 min. Then maybe today, I'll be back home in around 20 minutes.
It's a waste of time because you've now re-framed my post into you being the object of the discussion. Those posts weren't meant to prove anything about you and your behavior. I'm not trying to lynch you anymore - your partner bowed out and it's impossible to lynch you today and we have an hour left in the day. They were meant to prove that the quality of discussion last night was low, and showed why I told Nin not to engage it.
You need to follow the narrative, Sorian. You're so fixated on redeeming yourself in the eyes of town that you're not even making sense.
VOTE: Orb
Not my most daring vote, I'll admit, but imo both players in the pair are defensive and coasty, and I don't see anything to make me town read them
Ourokitty is still eh, but I think I'm willing to give them another shot
I kinda want to punish Kark, but I think he's town
I'm not persuaded by Darryl or Sorian; seem to be talking past each other
Not my most daring vote, I'll admit, but imo both players in the pair are defensive and coasty, and I don't see anything to make me town read them
Ourokitty is still eh, but I think I'm willing to give them another shot
I kinda want to punish Kark, but I think he's town
I'm not persuaded by Darryl or Sorian; seem to be talking past each other
No Darryl, you went out of your way to say that both Fat AND I did it to try to prove some nonsensical point. I'm not trying to redeem myself, I'm trying to shine light on your shit tactic and I'm not letting you back down with your tail between your legs now.
I'm not sure how to read this whole Sorian/Darryl conversation
They are both aggressive players regardless of alignment, so this could really be any combo of scum/town. That said, I read through it all and ended up still not fully understanding what the hell started this whole argument. What the fuck are you two even yelling at each other over
Kark is still trying to apply pseudoscience to the game and as expected it doesn't actually mean anything
They are both aggressive players regardless of alignment, so this could really be any combo of scum/town. That said, I read through it all and ended up still not fully understanding what the hell started this whole argument. What the fuck are you two even yelling at each other over
Kark is still trying to apply pseudoscience to the game and as expected it doesn't actually mean anything
Samuraischnecke
Neo Member
Also before anything gets in the way IRL I will place my vote aswell
VOTE: Xbro
VOTE: Xbro
To be fair, at least you're open to talking about it and asking questions, can't hate. I figured in this game I'd have to explain myself to new players I've never played with before.
Let me stop you right here. There is no "masterplan". I play stuff by ear.
I don't usually spell out 100% what I'm trying to do, but I generally do things to try to trip scum in subtle ways and get reads on their behavior.
I'm used to being called anti-Town by now, it's practically a nickname, despite being Town every time. I DO try to adjust if people are telling me I'm being an idiot
But I DO sometimes get results, and I guess I'm just asking for a little patience.
I'm not made of free time, either. I thought it'd be okay to mostly be active towards the end because most of Day 1 on gafia happens towards the end anyway, and it lined up nicely with the weekend. I understand that, and I did try to make an exemption for that in what I said.
With that said, though, when I looked at the activity numbers between players in their pairs, that's when I saw differences that didn't seem to simply chalk up to schedule.
The idea to stay out of the game was just to stay out of people's hair and let people do their own thing before I shake anything up. Darryl said something to the effect of "giving them the rope to hang themselves with". It was later in the Day that I started noticing how things were going, is when I decided to look at the numbers and what might be happening.
CrimsonFist
Member
Yeah, I'm still kind of struggling to wrap my head entirely around this Sorian vs Darryl thing. It's certainly not endearing me to Darryl, considering parts of it have felt like trying to play up his relatively minor contributions before the whole thing started, and I really don't like Nin not getting engaged in anything, apparently intentionally.
Continuation of Read List:
Ranking of Suspicions Glossary:
1) Destroy
2) Slight Suspicious
3) Null to Slight Suspicious
4) Null
5) Don't Throw Into Volcano to Null
6) Don't Throw Into Volcano
7) Total Townie
10. [m] Natiko & [m] Nomadic Sparks
Natiko:
Done some slight to decent poking through the game. Seems unwilling to go after (as in vote for) high posting/high contributing members on Day 1. From skimming the one thing that catches my eye is "At this point I think Ouro is either scum, neutral, or a very good PR. Not personally settled on which way I lean yet, but it seems clear at this point he wants some amount of heat and suspicion which usually is indicative of someone that wants to live long or have an excuse for living long." Seems terribly weird to openly ponder whether a user might be a "strong" PR, in the middle of Day 1. Beyond that, most of my gut feelings on this pair is stemmed from his partner...
Nomadic Sparks:
I feel like he's up and down in his playstyle. Feels erratic, but apparently he's pretty new to gafia which could explain some behavior. There's a lot of nothingness posts. But then latches onto Ouro's "side eye post", seemingly settled on it and ignored my own post replying to his question over the issue. And then saying this out of nowhere thing without any real followup, "Go with Ouro for now. This Kark thing is a red herring."
I guess what I'm trying to say is would a scum team let one of their newbies float about weirdly into the wind like this? Would there really be no guidance, tips, etc by more season scum? In a regular town pair, I can see each member the duo kinda doing their own thing, using the chat for minor notes or shitposts. But for scum, the chat is incredibly important so I can't imagine scum wouldn't use it to help a newbie. Unless the bold strategy is to make Nomadic use his newbie status as a cover...but my bellygut says no at the moment.
In a way (I could be overthinking this) but Nomadic gives me pause. Don't Throw Into Volcano to Null.
11. [m] Verelios & [f] WhereAreMahDragonz
Verelios:
Liked some of his posts pushing back against SophiaCrimson. Made some points about Sorian being the "same boat" as that pair but while interesting, seems a little bit of a stretch for a scumSorian to be so outwardly protective of another possible scum pair early in a Day 1 game. From the rest of the skimming it doesn't like he hasn't done as much "comparitively" interesting pushing
since then.
WhereAreMahDragonz:
Starts off with a lot of fluff, and then gets into a multipost argument with kitsune over "But I'm not dumb enough to vote No Lynch and make myself a target this time." WAMD I think stretched the argument a bit too quick to go after kitsune, felt very forced. WAMD eventually moved onto to other arguments but would later call kitsune being MIA as "coasting scum alert". I don't feel really great about WAMD, Verelios kinda helps even out but not by enough for my bellygut.
Null to Slight Suspicious
13. [m] Orb & [m] TheWorthyEdge
Orb: A complete lack of decisiveness. Very little if any finger pointing. Seems like a newbie (am i right on that?), which could explain something.
Still this isn't great.
TheWorthyEdge: To be honest, it doesn't feel *that* different from his partner. Feels very non-commital. I just feel a whole lot of nothing from this pair, and that troubles my bellygut dearly.
This pair is slipping past like socks on laminated flooring.
Slight Suspicious
14. [f] StarSketch & [m] SexyFish [m] CzarTim
StarSketch: StarSketch posted comparitively little to the rest of the bunch but among the existing posts it feels like a lot of nothing.
SexyFish:
Had to be replaced by CzarTim...not much to go on. Looking forward to tunneling CzarTim in Day 2 when he jumps into the fray.
Very little to this pair but will be interested to see if that continues in Day 2.
Null
15. [-] Darryl & [m] nin1000
Darryl: Can get very defensive but isn't afraid to punch around, which doesn't really bother my gut. But some of the punching seems a little weird, like posting a photoshopped image splicing in evidence that he was in fact scumhunting, while having quotes from (i think) fat4all implying he wasn't scum hunting. Seems needlessly theatrical. Or quoting a Nin joke post as evidence Nin exists in this game.
As I've said before, and I'll say it again, seems very strong Darryl and Sorian are not on the same team. So if either flipped scum, it'd probably change my read of the other. Can't imagine this is some bold scum stunt.
Nin1000:
Started a little interesting talk about how we should read pairs in this game. But he then became a figment of our imagination. Of the existing posts has it been out of character for Nin? From experience not really? But that's alignment indicative either.
Null I think at the moment (Sorian flipping scum would obviously change that)
I realize I have too many people as suspicious, which unless Burb went mad, seems like an unlikely amount. Will continue to try to improve readlist as time goes on. I also am knocking Kark down from Slight Suspicious to a Null. I'm starting to wonder if a scumKark (along with his scum partner) would really fight this way at the end of the day. Seems very low energy. Sad!
Ranking of Suspicions Glossary:
1) Destroy
2) Slight Suspicious
3) Null to Slight Suspicious
4) Null
5) Don't Throw Into Volcano to Null
6) Don't Throw Into Volcano
7) Total Townie
10. [m] Natiko & [m] Nomadic Sparks
Natiko:
Done some slight to decent poking through the game. Seems unwilling to go after (as in vote for) high posting/high contributing members on Day 1. From skimming the one thing that catches my eye is "At this point I think Ouro is either scum, neutral, or a very good PR. Not personally settled on which way I lean yet, but it seems clear at this point he wants some amount of heat and suspicion which usually is indicative of someone that wants to live long or have an excuse for living long." Seems terribly weird to openly ponder whether a user might be a "strong" PR, in the middle of Day 1. Beyond that, most of my gut feelings on this pair is stemmed from his partner...
Nomadic Sparks:
I feel like he's up and down in his playstyle. Feels erratic, but apparently he's pretty new to gafia which could explain some behavior. There's a lot of nothingness posts. But then latches onto Ouro's "side eye post", seemingly settled on it and ignored my own post replying to his question over the issue. And then saying this out of nowhere thing without any real followup, "Go with Ouro for now. This Kark thing is a red herring."
I guess what I'm trying to say is would a scum team let one of their newbies float about weirdly into the wind like this? Would there really be no guidance, tips, etc by more season scum? In a regular town pair, I can see each member the duo kinda doing their own thing, using the chat for minor notes or shitposts. But for scum, the chat is incredibly important so I can't imagine scum wouldn't use it to help a newbie. Unless the bold strategy is to make Nomadic use his newbie status as a cover...but my bellygut says no at the moment.
In a way (I could be overthinking this) but Nomadic gives me pause. Don't Throw Into Volcano to Null.
11. [m] Verelios & [f] WhereAreMahDragonz
Verelios:
Liked some of his posts pushing back against SophiaCrimson. Made some points about Sorian being the "same boat" as that pair but while interesting, seems a little bit of a stretch for a scumSorian to be so outwardly protective of another possible scum pair early in a Day 1 game. From the rest of the skimming it doesn't like he hasn't done as much "comparitively" interesting pushing
since then.
WhereAreMahDragonz:
Starts off with a lot of fluff, and then gets into a multipost argument with kitsune over "But I'm not dumb enough to vote No Lynch and make myself a target this time." WAMD I think stretched the argument a bit too quick to go after kitsune, felt very forced. WAMD eventually moved onto to other arguments but would later call kitsune being MIA as "coasting scum alert". I don't feel really great about WAMD, Verelios kinda helps even out but not by enough for my bellygut.
Null to Slight Suspicious
13. [m] Orb & [m] TheWorthyEdge
Orb: A complete lack of decisiveness. Very little if any finger pointing. Seems like a newbie (am i right on that?), which could explain something.
Still this isn't great.
TheWorthyEdge: To be honest, it doesn't feel *that* different from his partner. Feels very non-commital. I just feel a whole lot of nothing from this pair, and that troubles my bellygut dearly.
This pair is slipping past like socks on laminated flooring.
Slight Suspicious
14. [f] StarSketch & [m] SexyFish [m] CzarTim
StarSketch: StarSketch posted comparitively little to the rest of the bunch but among the existing posts it feels like a lot of nothing.
SexyFish:
Had to be replaced by CzarTim...not much to go on. Looking forward to tunneling CzarTim in Day 2 when he jumps into the fray.
Very little to this pair but will be interested to see if that continues in Day 2.
Null
15. [-] Darryl & [m] nin1000
Darryl: Can get very defensive but isn't afraid to punch around, which doesn't really bother my gut. But some of the punching seems a little weird, like posting a photoshopped image splicing in evidence that he was in fact scumhunting, while having quotes from (i think) fat4all implying he wasn't scum hunting. Seems needlessly theatrical. Or quoting a Nin joke post as evidence Nin exists in this game.
As I've said before, and I'll say it again, seems very strong Darryl and Sorian are not on the same team. So if either flipped scum, it'd probably change my read of the other. Can't imagine this is some bold scum stunt.
Nin1000:
Started a little interesting talk about how we should read pairs in this game. But he then became a figment of our imagination. Of the existing posts has it been out of character for Nin? From experience not really? But that's alignment indicative either.
Null I think at the moment (Sorian flipping scum would obviously change that)
I realize I have too many people as suspicious, which unless Burb went mad, seems like an unlikely amount. Will continue to try to improve readlist as time goes on. I also am knocking Kark down from Slight Suspicious to a Null. I'm starting to wonder if a scumKark (along with his scum partner) would really fight this way at the end of the day. Seems very low energy. Sad!
I don't know where it says that I tried to say you were trying to prove any point at all. That's how I felt arguing with you two last night and we were discussing my actions so my feelings matter. It's really hard to argue with two people who both insist on responding to your every response with a kneejerk. I don't like fueling those flames.
It's like me and you having this discussion right now. No one wants to hear this, dude. You're not gotcha-ing me. You're not fighting yourself out of the fire because you're not in one. If either of us get lynched today, it's me. I don't know what the motive is other than to defend your bruised ego. Neither of us even want to have this discussion. I'm not getting anything out of it because town will refuse to lynch someone whose partner dropped out. This feels incredibly anti-town because we're hogging the discourse and we have a serious decision coming up.
CrimsonFist
Member
Kark stop defending your gambit and talk about anything else. Give us reads based on your gambit at least. You posed vague questions but not answers, it's given us nothing.
Doing that now, but I did have to answer for it
I'm saying you were trying to prove a point (that we were only dismissive or something) not us.
And my motive is easy. I think you are scum, I think you didn't like Fat calling you out and overreacted way too much and had to play to the crowd once you realized how deep it had gone. And now you are trying to swerve away to the easy target instead of pursuing your own presumed scum read.
Why, after that big discussion with Sorian, are you changing your vote?
Me and you both know we aren't lynching Sorian today. There's multiple scum here. I'm not even 100% in on Sorian anymore, really. Originally my argument with him was that he felt like he was avoiding being the center of attention, but no he went full Sorian and now he's hogging it so I think my time is better spent somewhere else.
Fat4all never did explain why he misread some of those posts btw and now he's gone. I don't think it is that hard to understand why I'm upset or think low of you two, but if me being upset like that really prompts your scumdar then okay go for it