There is no contradiction. I had been posting for awhile that I had issue with Darryl and his lack of follow through on any of his points but Fat went through and did an iso on his own while I was napping yesterday. I've talked about a few people in chat so I don't think anything I said really pushed Fat over the edge to read Darryl but he ended up coming to the same conclusions I did once he actually looked at it deeper.
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Love Boat 2 [Mafia] |OT| Electric Boogalove
- Thread starter Burbeting
- Start date
There is no contradiction. I had been posting for awhile that I had issue with Darryl and his lack of follow through on any of his points but Fat went through and did an iso on his own while I was napping yesterday. I've talked about a few people in chat so I don't think anything I said really pushed Fat over the edge to read Darryl but he ended up coming to the same conclusions I did once he actually looked at it deeper.
Royal_Flush
Member
I've read Sorians post and they're... average. Not Sorian average, just normal average. On its own that wouldn't be enough to not wanting him to stay alive, but given Fat's performance, idk...
Also, I'm telling you right now: Something's off with Verelios' posts. They just don't feel right. I'll try to pin it down.
Other relevant point: Who am I willing to vote today:
[m] Xbro & [m] Karkador (self explanatory)
[m] Verelios & [f] WhereAreMahDragonz (dragonz absolutely not on top of her game and vere feeling odd. The latter is gut for now until I found out what's my problem with him)
Who I'd also go along with:
[m] Ourobolus & [m] kingkitty (latest readlist by kingkitty was quite good, that's basically why they're not in the first category)
[m] Natiko & [m] Nomadic Sparks (Not too sure about Natiko but Nomadic still is failing to make worthwile contributions)
If everything else fails (aka only if you completely abandon all reason and want to go after Crimsonphia or something):
[m] Fat4all & [m] Sorian (Although not in this game so far, a early-game Sorian sometimes can save a game's pace; Fat4All is getting replaced, I'm willing to give them one last chance)
[-] Darryl & [m] nin1000 (Kind of usual behavior for both I guess; Nin will stay probably at least a bit coast-y, so it wouldn't be that terrible)
[m] Orb & [m] TheWorthyEdge (I personally lean towards "they're fine", but I'm not overly sure here.)
[m] franconp & [m] Dr. Worm (franconp is okay, but I don't like Worm)
[f] kitsunelaine & [m] flatearthpandas (FEP is okay, but kits didn't really expand her interaction radius beyond dragonz.
[f] StarSketch & [m] CzarTim (I mean, there is literally nothing gained interaction-wise, but i guess it's not the worst lynch?)
Completely off the table:
[m] Muffin1611 & [f] Samuraischnecke (gut feeling very Town)
[m] TheExodu5 & [m] Fireblend (Exodus is RL-busy, Fireblend left good impressions)
[m] CrimsonFist & [f] Sophia (The MVP so far)
[m] TsuXna & [m] Royal_Flush (myself)
[m] Trigger & [m] Ty4on (both left good impressions)
Also, I'm telling you right now: Something's off with Verelios' posts. They just don't feel right. I'll try to pin it down.
Other relevant point: Who am I willing to vote today:
[m] Xbro & [m] Karkador (self explanatory)
[m] Verelios & [f] WhereAreMahDragonz (dragonz absolutely not on top of her game and vere feeling odd. The latter is gut for now until I found out what's my problem with him)
Who I'd also go along with:
[m] Ourobolus & [m] kingkitty (latest readlist by kingkitty was quite good, that's basically why they're not in the first category)
[m] Natiko & [m] Nomadic Sparks (Not too sure about Natiko but Nomadic still is failing to make worthwile contributions)
If everything else fails (aka only if you completely abandon all reason and want to go after Crimsonphia or something):
[m] Fat4all & [m] Sorian (Although not in this game so far, a early-game Sorian sometimes can save a game's pace; Fat4All is getting replaced, I'm willing to give them one last chance)
[-] Darryl & [m] nin1000 (Kind of usual behavior for both I guess; Nin will stay probably at least a bit coast-y, so it wouldn't be that terrible)
[m] Orb & [m] TheWorthyEdge (I personally lean towards "they're fine", but I'm not overly sure here.)
[m] franconp & [m] Dr. Worm (franconp is okay, but I don't like Worm)
[f] kitsunelaine & [m] flatearthpandas (FEP is okay, but kits didn't really expand her interaction radius beyond dragonz.
[f] StarSketch & [m] CzarTim (I mean, there is literally nothing gained interaction-wise, but i guess it's not the worst lynch?)
Completely off the table:
[m] Muffin1611 & [f] Samuraischnecke (gut feeling very Town)
[m] TheExodu5 & [m] Fireblend (Exodus is RL-busy, Fireblend left good impressions)
[m] CrimsonFist & [f] Sophia (The MVP so far)
[m] TsuXna & [m] Royal_Flush (myself)
[m] Trigger & [m] Ty4on (both left good impressions)
Between Ouro/KK and Kark/Xbro, I vote the Kark group at this juncture. KK's read list from last night is actually well thought out especially for a Kitty post even if Ouro's play has been trash overall. Meanwhile, between the nothing going on from the Kark boat and the extremely underwhelming......gambit? Not feeling anything there.
Still keeping my vote at Darryl for now though. He isn't even pretending to scum hunt at this point between telling his partner to stand down and let him do the talking and his entire focus being on doing anything possible to put negative spin on me/Fat.
Still keeping my vote at Darryl for now though. He isn't even pretending to scum hunt at this point between telling his partner to stand down and let him do the talking and his entire focus being on doing anything possible to put negative spin on me/Fat.
I take it you're going to post an analysis of Vere and possibly Dragonz?I've read Sorians post and they're... average. Not Sorian average, just normal average. On its own that wouldn't be enough to not wanting him to stay alive, but given Fat's performance, idk...
Also, I'm telling you right now: Something's off with Verelios' posts. They just don't feel right. I'll try to pin it down.
Well Day 1 is almost over and Kark isn't responding to me in the lover's chat. I was waiting for him to elaborate on a read before doing anything, but I can see that that isn't happening. I'll go ahead and go in on his behalf as well as my own gut feeling on the pair based on the last few pages.
Vote: Darryl
Vote: Darryl
Well Day 1 is almost over and Kark isn't responding to me in the lover's chat. I was waiting for him to elaborate on a read before doing anything, but I can see that that isn't happening. I'll go ahead and go in on his behalf as well as my own gut feeling on the pair based on the last few pages.
Vote: Darryl
Xbro, 3 quick questions regarding Kark's behavior:
- Is that post count analysis really the reason he neglected the thread for so long?
- If so, do you feel exchanging activity for it was justified?
- Do you think the analysis was worthwhile and valuable?
Xbro, 3 quick questions regarding Kark's behavior:
- Is that post count analysis really the reason he neglected the thread for so long?
- If so, do you feel exchanging activity for it was justified?
- Do you think the analysis was worthwhile and valuable?
-It was a mixture of that and real life things. I'm thinking he was going for more of a reactionary gauge than anything. When I posted the thing about him intentionally being silent he was very enthralled by everyone's reactions, he was particularly interested in Darryl's non-reaction.
The entire thing started from the get-go. I wasn't in the thread until late the first night because I forgot it was starting that day, so I didn't see him saying he had a plan for the game until then. Hence this post:
I'll wait, Xbae
was him acknowledging that I hadn't had a chance to respond to him.
- No, I don't really think it quite payed off as well as it might have. I'm a very plan-based person, so until I had an elaborate plan set up I'd follow his plans. My plans usually don't formulate until either the end of Day 1 or one of the later days depending on how familiar I am with the people I'm playing with. This game I went in not knowing any of the other 29 players of the game, so I was content with observing everything.
Xbro, are you new?
I don't envy having Kark as a partner at all.
Relatively. I've played a few games on other sites, though I wouldn't say I've played with very experienced players.
Nomadic Sparks
Banned
I'm amazed that nobody voted for Natiko/Nomadic so far with how Nomadic has been playing. Plenty of people said that suspected him but noone acted on it.
I'm going to leave this for a while:
vote: Natiko
I don't feel too bad about Natiko, but I usually don't has he is difficult to read. So I want Nomadic to make me feel more at easy with the pair.
Give me something to move my vote Nomadic.
Ouro is obsfucating the discourse is what mainly bothering me, combined with aggressive play so far has left me no choice but vote them for day one lynch.
You do you but so far Ouro has far more skin in the game then I do
Ouro is obsfucating the discourse is what mainly bothering me, combined with aggressive play so far has left me no choice but vote them for day one lynch.
You do you but so far Ouro has far more skin in the game then I do
Anything besides Ouro? Your take on Darryl's and Sorian's discussion?
Muffin1611
Banned
Only a bit over two hours left. I'm less keen on voting Ouro now, Kark is the best option right now, tbh. His "gambit" wasn't worth anything.
Only a bit over two hours left. I'm less keen on voting Ouro now, Kark is the best option right now, tbh. His "gambit" wasn't worth anything.
Why do you keep falling back on the Ouro option like a safety net?
Muffin1611
Banned
Why do you keep falling back on the Ouro option like a safety net?
...Because they are second group on my list when it comes to scummy behaviour? Why are you asking this when you could look at previous posts of mine to see that has been my stance for a while?
Muffin1611
Banned
Considering you've been quiet the entire time and have to ask something so obvious, you didn't really observe really well, Kark.
...Because they are second group on my list when it comes to scummy behaviour? Why are you asking this when you could look at previous posts of mine to see that has been my stance for a while?
That's what I meant by a "safety net". You have sounded like you supposedly want to vote for Ouro al this time, but apparently aren't committed to the idea. Is it just to look busy?
I have no signal half the time and I'm driving for four more hours still. No clue if I'll be around for day end. I've made it clear who all I suspect. I'll try and check in before day end to see if I need to move my vote to prevent a tie or if one of the other pairs I think are scum are near the lead instead.
Muffin1611
Banned
That's what I meant by a "safety net". You have sounded like you supposedly want to vote for Ouro al this time, but apparently aren't committed to the idea. Is it just to look busy?
I have previously voted for Ouro and only unvoted because of your situation? How was I not committed?
If pressuring the pair that looks the most scummy to me and keeping my vote on them until I see something equally scummy is "trying to look busy", then yeah, I'm doing that.
I have previously voted for Ouro and only unvoted because of your situation? How was I not committed?
If pressuring the pair that looks the most scummy to me and keeping my vote on them until I see something equally scummy is "trying to look busy", then yeah, I'm doing that.
Or, Ouro was a vote you parked with no intention of keeping in the end.
Muffin1611
Banned
Or, Ouro was a vote you parked with no intention of keeping in the end.
Uh-huh.
Muffin1611
Banned
Accusation that my scum hunting was just trying to look busy from a guy who was intentionally absent. Okay.
I'm trying to finish up the last of my reads (did only 9 pairs at the time) before the day ends, although I'll just post whatever I got by 2pm eastern time (so in about an hourish).
Comfortable keeping my vote on Ty4on, but I'd be cool with a Royal_Flush death as well.
Kark is also an ok death but probably not top priority among those three.
Comfortable keeping my vote on Ty4on, but I'd be cool with a Royal_Flush death as well.
Kark is also an ok death but probably not top priority among those three.
Accusation that my scum hunting was just trying to look busy from a guy who was intentionally absent. Okay.
There is nothing to compare there
Muffin1611
Banned
For that matter, if your votes have been so committed, where are your partner's votes to back you up?
So if not the entire pair votes for someone well before the day ends they're obviously not ready to keep that vote later? Did I get that right?
I'll probably have a spotty presence. Visitors coming over.
VOTE: kitsunelaine
Really cheap when it looks like neither will be active before day end :/
It's just nothing they've done has really broken through as townie. The counter aggression to Dragonz early on felt made up and FEP hasn't stood out too much.
Anyone have a reason I shouldn't? I see some leaning town on them.
VOTE: kitsunelaine
Really cheap when it looks like neither will be active before day end :/
It's just nothing they've done has really broken through as townie. The counter aggression to Dragonz early on felt made up and FEP hasn't stood out too much.
Anyone have a reason I shouldn't? I see some leaning town on them.
Muffin1611
Banned
There is nothing to compare there
You're saying that I look scummy because I apparently tried to look busy without actually doing anything, while you're actually looking scummy by intentionally doing absolutely nothing. That is what I was comparing.
I finally finished reading all of last night.
Darryl/Nin vs Fat/Sorian: I don't know what to think about this. For one side I agree with Darryl that Sorian isn't playing as his usual townie way. He don't see as much involved as he usually is. Fat also acting really low key until his attack on Darryl. Fat's post on Darryl seems as an OMGUS made by Sorian. There is a contradiction there about who was the one with the idea of the post. Also Fat's MO isn't really make that kind of post full of quotes.
Looking at the other side the post that Darryl says it was scum hunting doesn't look much like it. It's really weak without a follow up. Also I think Sorian is right. There was plenty of time to move his vote and prod another people instead of keeping a vote on Ouro. I don't like how Darryl asked Nin to stay out of the fight. I would like to hear more from Nin as he is basically MIA. Also, has Darryl talked about anything else at this point? The read list is mostly gut reads so not much to work with from this pair. Also didn't liked how he avoided Sorian until he had no choice that aknowledge him.
I found Sophia participation in the affair weak. It was not her fight but just a couple of comments here and there and kinda agreeing with both parties. Don't know.
I liked Vere's insight and think it was good. Vere is doing a good work. The same can't be said about WAMD. Again she let Vere fight the difficult fights.
Natiko post also were kinda good. Not enought to make me feel good about the pair.
Sadly I have to disagree with my partner. I think scum!Darryl could have done this as this all started from a post from Fat. At the beggining Darryl was mostly defending himself. After that he escalated the issue but I can see scum doing it.
StarSketch: I read both posts that she made last night and they are coasting like crazy. She needed 2 posts to reach the minimum requirements and did that. How can someone, on a 1.500 posts game, say it's quiet. She hasn't give an insight on anything. I would lynch here if it weren't for her partner. SexyFish is being replaced for Tim, who usually post a lot and give plenty of opinions. I want to see what he can bring to the game.
KK: I find it weird how he ommited all the Ouro's read on Fireblend in his Fire's analysis. The list is not bad but it ends being really non commital. Most of the reads are just null or close to null. He weakly suspects of Fireblend after Ouro said that he was one of his townies reads. Puts Sophia/Crimson at the same level as Fireblends, even after having a serious vote on them. I find the list a bit inconsistent.
Kark: Fuck Kark's gambits. That play was bullshit. There was nothing there, the analysis was almost non existant. Either Kark is scum or he is anti town. I wouldn't mind voting here.
Sorian's arguments were weak deflections. One of his two counter posts was literally just him saying that what he did was scummy and he 'rebutted' it by pointing out that what he did was even scummier that I thought. I posted about this in #1308 where this whole thing began.
So if not the entire pair votes for someone well before the day ends they're obviously not ready to keep that vote later? Did I get that right?
I just don't think your criticism of my inactivity, or your defensive reminders of why you're not voting Ouro, hold up to much scrutiny.
I'll probably have a spotty presence. Visitors coming over.
VOTE: kitsunelaine
Really cheap when it looks like neither will be active before day end :/
It's just nothing they've done has really broken through as townie. The counter aggression to Dragonz early on felt made up and FEP hasn't stood out too much.
Anyone have a reason I shouldn't? I see some leaning town on them.
That's an odd question to ask.
Can't say I disagree though.
Sorian's arguments were weak deflections. One of his two counter posts was literally just him saying that what he did was scummy and he 'rebutted' it by pointing out that what he did was even scummier that I thought. I posted about this in #1308 where this whole thing began.
Trying to pressure another pair into talking while Ouro still had suspicion and votes on him isn't scummy. No matter how much you keep trying to say the smae line again and again.
Muffin1611
Banned
I just don't think your criticism of my inactivity, or your defensive reminders of why you're not voting Ouro, hold up to much scrutiny.
The criteria you're judging me under here are applicable to literally anybody else. Pairs were mostly content with one of them voting someone to pressure them, and I'm not the only one who is extremely critical of you after you revealed that you're intentionally keeping quiet. I openly asked if people consider somebody like Ouro who's playstyle bothered me and others and has talked much would be a better lynch than you, since that could give us some reads, and I was almost instantly asked why we would keep someone like you around for long with your anti-town gambits. I don't have an argument against that.
Trying to pressure another pair into talking while Ouro still had suspicion and votes on him isn't scummy. No matter how much you keep trying to say the smae line again and again.
Just more deflection man, because this isn't what I was saying and you know it. You just keep moving the goal posts whenever you're forced to respond and then you throw me into the fire because I bow out. Why are you playing like an agenda driven robot and not a human being
Kark: Fuck Kark's gambits. That play was bullshit. There was nothing there, the analysis was almost non existant. Either Kark is scum or he is anti town. I wouldn't mind voting here.
Well, fuck fran's short memory, tbh. You and I just finished a game where one of my gambits helped Town win. Give me a little more credit.
It gets a little exhausting to put my style effort into rooting out scum when people don't want to play along. Or they are trying to discredit it for reasons.
That's an odd question to ask.
Can't say I disagree though.
It's ok information wise too. We've had a lot of discussion around them and FEP shared some reads.
Kitsune doesn't seem like a player who struggles this much to make a read. The pair also meshes together weirdly; in one place one lover quotes the other as if they weren't paired and FEP seemed too passive when kitsune was pressured. I'd feel an urge to defend my partner.
Samuraischnecke
Neo Member
@Karkador did you look at the questions I asked you after your... longer post? You haven't said anything about it anymore, although others and me clearly were confused by what you spent your time with.
Look at #1300 if you want a reminder what I asked about this method... Just because I see nothing in there but hollow questions.
Look at #1300 if you want a reminder what I asked about this method... Just because I see nothing in there but hollow questions.
Just more deflection man, because this isn't what I was saying and you know it. You just keep moving the goal posts whenever you're forced to respond and then you throw me into the fire because I bow out. Why are you playing like an agenda driven robot and not a human being
Ok, tell me what you are saying because I don't know. Here is post 1308 for reference by the way:
Doesn't make sense at all when you look at the timeline for these events. I am not scum hunting in that post? Why did I follow it 20 minutes later with another post throwing shade at your team mate (original work - no one else has pointed how Sorian's voting patterns), completely unprompted? How can you possibly say that I wasn't scum hunting when I was obviously sitting in the thread during that post, sifting through for evidence of wrongdoing in places where no one else was? No, it is really obvious that you aren't even reading the posts or trying to piece together a line of events. You've went through and found all of my posts and now you're trying to tie them all together haphazardly for a half-baked take-down.
Yea, because I didn't need to. Sorian responded exactly the way I was expecting to if he was scum, which would've been to deflect it to avoid being in the spotlight. I don't think I could have sold this at that moment to anyone but myself. Also, the thread was really bloated and by the time I could have responded it was 2 pages back. I am not surprised at all to see the OMGUS coming from you. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Sorian convinced you to do it in your lover's chat to avoid it being so transparent that his scummery was so flagrant.
Like, let's look at his response.
Let's rephrase that mouth of words, lol!
You guys know this doesn't make any sense whatsoever and it isn't a rebuttal. Like you can't just deflect an accusation of being scummy by pointing out that it was even scummier than I realized (actually - no, Sorian doing this was 100% baked into my accusation of him to begin with and was what led the entire line of questioning). Like what would I even respond to? Did you want me to nag at him so he could just passively deflect again? What was my response supposed to be here?
NEVER
Please, enlighten me.
For that matter, if your votes have been so committed, where are your partner's votes to back you up?
Is everyone here voting in tandem with their partner? That seems like something you'd do if your head was on the fryer
Muffin1611
Banned
Well, fuck fran's short memory, tbh. You and I just finished a game where one of my gambits helped Town win. Give me a little more credit.
It gets a little exhausting to put my style effort into rooting out scum when people don't want to play along. Or they are trying to discredit it for reasons.
Come on, Kark. This:
Let's take a look at some numbers:
Fair warning -they're already out of date numbers, as people post while I type this up. Also, you need to account for random pre-game nonsense.
Post count:
Remarkably, all the top-posting players in the game have pretty wide margins between their post counts with their partner. Ty4on and Ouro have not only shot past the herd, they've left their partners way behind.
Below the top 5, we start getting strong parity with pairs like Sophia/Crimson, Natiko/Nomadic, and Worm/Fran. Some pairs with less posts also maintain parity (myself included), while others don't.
I don't think anyone can confidently say that posting-parity implies Town or not. Likewise, uneven post counts doesn't mean scum. People get along in different ways.
I guess my question is, would scum be more to ensure parity? Or would they let one or two players in their team coast? What if most of the scum players are laying low today, while one or two of them set the agenda?
Personally, my feeling is most are laying low or switching off, while someone is guiding the discussion to make sure nobody is in danger. That seems like bare minimum of what's going on.
is absolutely useless. Instead of making note of weird shit like that and keeping to your lovers chat you could have actively been out in the thread scumhunting.
CrimsonFist
Member
Well, fuck fran's short memory, tbh. You and I just finished a game where one of my gambits helped Town win. Give me a little more credit.
It gets a little exhausting to put my style effort into rooting out scum when people don't want to play along. Or they are trying to discredit it for reasons.
What did you get out of your gambit then? Did it give you any reads or insight into who you want to vote today?
Muffin1611
Banned
Is everyone here voting in tandem with their partner? That seems like something you'd do if your head was on the fryer
No they're not. At the end of the day they will be probably, but we had plenty of cases of only on person of the pair putting a vote out to pressure someone.
Ok, tell me what you are saying because I don't know. Here is post 1308 for reference by the way:
Please, enlighten me.
It's the last paragraph, Robo-Boy
Sorian's arguments were weak deflections. One of his two counter posts was literally just him saying that what he did was scummy and he 'rebutted' it by pointing out that what he did was even scummier that I thought. I posted about this in #1308 where this whole thing began.
Yeah, yeah, I know that you don't like Sorian. Anything else?
Also is Nin allowed to talk now? Because I want to read something from him.
It's the last paragraph, Robo-Boy
You mean the part about how I took my vote off of Ouro? You can't make a fake quote for me and pass it as real. Either you are talking about why I moved my vote or you aren't, which is it?
Well, fuck fran's short memory, tbh. You and I just finished a game where one of my gambits helped Town win. Give me a little more credit.
It gets a little exhausting to put my style effort into rooting out scum when people don't want to play along. Or they are trying to discredit it for reasons.
Are you freaking kidding me???
How did that gamble did help town won the game???
You wanted No Lynch and thanks to town not listening to you and following my lynch we caught one scum day one. Then Acohrs got 2 more. You were lynched long before melon. Where is your gambit in all of this????
Muffin1611
Banned
Oh yeah, I didn't give a take on the Darryl vs Sorian thing from last night yet.
tldr: Although Fat started it, Darryl was extremely aggressive (I don't know him, is that his normal playstyle?) while I didn't take much issue with the way Sorian argumented. You all are saying he's not his usual self, but his contributions were pretty good overall.
That Nin came in for one or two posts and disappeared again is something I found really weird.
tldr: Although Fat started it, Darryl was extremely aggressive (I don't know him, is that his normal playstyle?) while I didn't take much issue with the way Sorian argumented. You all are saying he's not his usual self, but his contributions were pretty good overall.
That Nin came in for one or two posts and disappeared again is something I found really weird.
CrimsonFist
Member
I'll probably have a spotty presence. Visitors coming over.
VOTE: kitsunelaine
Really cheap when it looks like neither will be active before day end :/
It's just nothing they've done has really broken through as townie. The counter aggression to Dragonz early on felt made up and FEP hasn't stood out too much.
Anyone have a reason I shouldn't? I see some leaning town on them.
Yeah, can't say I'd object to lynching Kitsune, I think they've given one reads post and it was just a null, this despite being fairly present and active. Pandas hasn't done much of note either.