I didn't say you were alone on the Ouro thing, I was with you on that. I said in that posts that I followed that narrative. I liked it. It just didn't sell. My stuff with Sorian didn't sell either but woe is me, big deal. It'll come up later - I'm sure. I don't get why we have so much CONCERN over a failed argument that didn't lead to a lynch.
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Love Boat 2 [Mafia] |OT| Electric Boogalove
- Thread starter Burbeting
- Start date
I didn't say you were alone on the Ouro thing, I was with you on that. I said in that posts that I followed that narrative. I liked it. It just didn't sell. My stuff with Sorian didn't sell either but woe is me, big deal. It'll come up later - I'm sure. I don't get why we have so much CONCERN over a failed argument that didn't lead to a lynch.
...oops, my bad. I think I misinterpreted this post as you having a vote on Orb but switching.
¯\_(ツ
_/¯I'm just callin 'em as I sees 'em. The one time I played with you and you were Town you weren't as serious/aggressive right out of the gate like you were here.
Will do! Hopefully will get to it tonight but my schedule is all over the place so don't quote me on it.
In the meantime can I ask what your thoughts are on Kark/Xbro and Ouro/KK? I don't believe you've really commented on them since early Day 1.
So, I'll be out of here for the night. Wanted to at least put some effort in already so some people don't start claiming again I'm rehashing others arguments and are actually doing nothing in terms of contributing
This posts reads so eager for approval. If you weren't new I'd probably think it came from a scum perspective.
Kark was almost like a non-entity until the late end of Day 1, when we found out he had been watching the thread in silence. I'm still not sure what his intent with the post count numbers was tho. His questions at the end looked like he wanted other people to draw the conclusions for him. I have no idea if they're telling the truth about their chat being silenced, no way to confirm it until someone else gets it too.
As for Ouro and KingKitty... Ouro's been all over the place to me, and I need to read over Kingkitty's giant reads list from the end of Day 1. If I recall right, Kingkitty was on Ty4on until switching to Orb at the end because nobody wanted to jump on Ty..?
kitsunelaine
Banned
Good morning! Oh man. So much to catch up on. This game is going a LOT faster than the last one I was in (or at least, it feels like it.) I'll try to offer a couple reads today. x_x;;
After a quick glance at Kingkitty's read list, I have come to the conclusion that Kingkitty is probably a video game reviewer because why do you need seven rankings for this holy crap.
His reason for voting Ty4on apparently was because he defended his shit posts, which admittedly was very weird but I'm not sure about alignment indicative? Ty4on did cut back on the amount of shitposts after that tho.
It can be a red herring because it's very plausible only townies moved their votes, especially if Kark/Xbro is town too.
It's not a bad idea to look at votes, but chaos like that can be mostly noise. I graphed the movement of votes in a messy D1 (Batman 1) which was town v town and only one vote came from scum. That vote had Kark moving his vote around to force a tie with others fighting against it.
Deja Vu, from Love Boat 1, something happened etc.
You don't seem bad at this game.
....
I'm trying to figure out where you're going with this. So do you scum read muffin or not?
Thank you!
So what do you think of Ouro/KK and Kark/Xbro then? You kinda started with an opinion but never really finished it and just gave a sort of half-answer. All I can gather from these posts is a summary of what they did, not your opinion of what they did.
My opinion is that... I am unsure! Kingkitty's read list was really tedious to read tho.
I'm not particularly getting any scum vibes from Kark/Xbro at the moment. If their silencing shot can be confirmed somehow, I'm inclined to believe they're town just on that alone tho. But it hasn't been confirmed yet so it's a dangerous assumption until then.
Okay, all caught up now.
There's a lot of people I wanted to hear from but first and foremost I want more from Kark
Vote: Xbro
Not only do i have issues with his ''''gambit''' but since he was apparently locked away into his Lovers chat ( and now no longer has access to it? ) I want more everything from him. Opinions on hot topics, scum reads, and the like. Also more of your 'gambit'; why did you do it? what were you trying to gain from it? you haven't even discussed it yet today despite posting a couple times, why not?
I also want to hear from:
TsuXna, Trigger, Kitsune, Star, Tim, and Nin.
All people I don't think were around enough Day 1 to make a ton of posts or just sort of trailed off by the end and disappeared.
There's a lot of people I wanted to hear from but first and foremost I want more from Kark
Vote: Xbro
Not only do i have issues with his ''''gambit''' but since he was apparently locked away into his Lovers chat ( and now no longer has access to it? ) I want more everything from him. Opinions on hot topics, scum reads, and the like. Also more of your 'gambit'; why did you do it? what were you trying to gain from it? you haven't even discussed it yet today despite posting a couple times, why not?
I also want to hear from:
TsuXna, Trigger, Kitsune, Star, Tim, and Nin.
All people I don't think were around enough Day 1 to make a ton of posts or just sort of trailed off by the end and disappeared.
I don't like answering for Trigger, but kinda wanna when he's not around and has an answer.
Trigger was away for EoD (shock!). It actually took more than 24 hours after day end for him to pop into the boat, but while I'm not sure who he'd vote for I do know he agree with me it was weird the discussed pairs were spared. He was maybe colored by me calling the lynch really bad for clearing up nothing. For reads tho he disagrees with me regarding kitsune/FEP and finds Dragonz the scummy side of that fight. He also didn't like Dragonz low aggression near deadline. Vere himself isn't scummy to him. Overall tho he generally agrees with my town reads with CrimSoph being weaker reads.
For reference here are my reads that I posted in the boat:
Towniest:
Muffin1611 & Samuraischnecke
Townie:
TheExodu5 & Fireblend
CrimsonFist & Sophia
franconp & Dr. Worm
Verelios & WhereAreMahDragonz
Light town:
Fat4all/Sawneeks & Sorian
Xbro & Karkador
Natiko & Nomadic Sparks
Ourobolus & kingkitty
Uncertain:
TsuXna & Royal_Flush
StarSketch & SexyFish/CzarTim
Scum lean:
Darryl & nin1000
Scummiest:
kitsunelaine & flatearthpandas
They're a bit in flux, Darryl especially. Both of us like the way Darryl started against Sorian.
Why? I understand that Burb has used the same power as a neutral in the last game but I don't see why we should write off that he wouldn't do it again. Writing off Kark/Xbro just for that seems silly if we don't know the alignment of the shooter.
Hmmmm
What are your reads that you aren't 'unsure' about, then?
I can't believe I went back and re-read that bullshit.
Sorian/Fatneeks - I don't know. This went round and round and round and round and round and never actually got anywhere, except for the OMGUS vote from Sorian. Fat took part towards the end of the argument but still wasn't getting anywhere.
Darryl/Nin - Nin is less shitposty than usual (though he was busy during D1, I think he said?). I kinda get where Darryl was coming from on his side of the argument (except for the part about reading post histories. I mean technically I don't usually take that extra step because I'm lazy but I'm not going to pretend that people don't look at those).
Both teams used some stuff out of context, and were incredibly aggressive for a frickin' Day 1 argument - though it's Sorian and Darryl who typically play aggressively.
I can't fathom them all being on the same scum team. It just seems completely asinine to have this argument so early on if they were.
I know I originally was leaning Darryl (post 1343), but thinking back on it it doesn't seem that out of the ordinary. Darryl seemed genuinely frustrated with the whole thing, and I wasn't getting the same sense from the Sorian side (yeah yeah it's not an objective measurement, no shit). I think if there's scum between those two teams, it's Sawrian.
Sorian/Fatneeks - I don't know. This went round and round and round and round and round and never actually got anywhere, except for the OMGUS vote from Sorian. Fat took part towards the end of the argument but still wasn't getting anywhere.
Darryl/Nin - Nin is less shitposty than usual (though he was busy during D1, I think he said?). I kinda get where Darryl was coming from on his side of the argument (except for the part about reading post histories. I mean technically I don't usually take that extra step because I'm lazy but I'm not going to pretend that people don't look at those).
Both teams used some stuff out of context, and were incredibly aggressive for a frickin' Day 1 argument - though it's Sorian and Darryl who typically play aggressively.
I can't fathom them all being on the same scum team. It just seems completely asinine to have this argument so early on if they were.
I know I originally was leaning Darryl (post 1343), but thinking back on it it doesn't seem that out of the ordinary. Darryl seemed genuinely frustrated with the whole thing, and I wasn't getting the same sense from the Sorian side (yeah yeah it's not an objective measurement, no shit). I think if there's scum between those two teams, it's Sawrian.
I mean, come on. Where has my five(???) other team mates been during that argument. Where are my collaborators. Why has my scum team deserted me. The only one who came to my defense, in any form whatsoever, was you. No one even passively chimed in for me to push the argument in the right way or to help me explain myself
If there is truth to the chat silence, it's most likely a scum or neutral power. It doesn't make much sense for town to have a "power" like that unless there's some sort of other condition attached to it. Thus the fact that they got hit by it would imply they're town or neutral. I have no interest in speculating on what Burb may or may not have included tho. For now, the power is unconfirmed.
I don't feel good about Verelios/Dragonz tho. Royal already pointed out Verelios's contributions, and me and Fran mentioned Dragonz taking on newbies/easy stances.
Also see below.
Sorian/Darryl's argument was absurd, but I'm feeling a bit worse on Sorian/Sawneeks simply because I was already feeling scummy vibes from Fat4all to begin with.
Nomadic Sparks
Banned
ty4on what are your reads now?
Could be a neutral power targeting scum. That's why we can't know the aligment with the info we got right now.
I disagree with your conclusion ( gasp, I know ) but a solid 7.5/10 for the team name
Don't like Vere/Dragonz ( or myself and Sorian for that matter ) but no vote yet? How come?
Also i'm no science doggo so what can I do to make it up to you? ; __ ;
Yup. That's pretty much what I said. Right now we have one claim (that one pair of pairs has had their love boat chat disabled) which we cannot verify at this moment.
A town aligned chat silencer could easily just as hit town as much as it could scum, so I don't think the power is town-aligned. Which makes this post...
.. stand out as mildly curious because it almost sounds like Kark thinks it's a town-aligned power?
Was waiting to talk to Crimson about it, but he seems to have missed my comment in the love boat. So...
Vote: Verelios
I do not, but that doesn't mean there aren't shades of grey. It's an odd post that pinged my radar so I pointed it out. Doesn't push them from a town lean to a scum lean, but it's still minus townie points. I think I've been pretty transparent this entire game with who I lean scum on.
Assuming it's a legit power and not Kark throwing kinetically-charged cards at people, it's almost assuredly not town-aligned. Even me doing the "force a player to talk in memes" in Election as a town PR doesn't make it impossible to communicate, it's just annoying.
Now whether it's neutral or scum aligned is another matter. In LB1 the neutral had it but it didn't even work on scum (IIRC), so it's still completely anti-town. If it's scum-aligned then they know they won't target scum.
It's still not a great ability, since everyone is a pair of lovers so it's not like they're incredibly gimping the town, with the exception of if they hit a PR and then the pair has to guess on who they want to target that night.
Now whether it's neutral or scum aligned is another matter. In LB1 the neutral had it but it didn't even work on scum (IIRC), so it's still completely anti-town. If it's scum-aligned then they know they won't target scum.
It's still not a great ability, since everyone is a pair of lovers so it's not like they're incredibly gimping the town, with the exception of if they hit a PR and then the pair has to guess on who they want to target that night.
I think for now my top scum are:
Sawrian - for the aforementioned argument rubbing me the wrong way
Schmuffin - haven't really seen anything to challenge my gut read from D1
Dr. Fran - Worm seems to be playing the "woe is me" card a bit, a fran seems content to shake every tree he can find.
XKark* - a separate line for these guys. Kark's D1 was even more useless than normal. If the silence isn't a gambit, then I would toss these guys into the "neutral" pile for now.
Sawrian - for the aforementioned argument rubbing me the wrong way
Schmuffin - haven't really seen anything to challenge my gut read from D1
Dr. Fran - Worm seems to be playing the "woe is me" card a bit, a fran seems content to shake every tree he can find.
XKark* - a separate line for these guys. Kark's D1 was even more useless than normal. If the silence isn't a gambit, then I would toss these guys into the "neutral" pile for now.
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
I'm going after the newbies because they're playing like I was the first time I played scum
Really passively, didn't sit on one side of the argument for too long, regurgitated reads and posts so that I wouldn't get too much attention.
Orb was very safe for me, and now muffin is. I don't really care if they're new; I'm judging this off of playstyle
Really passively, didn't sit on one side of the argument for too long, regurgitated reads and posts so that I wouldn't get too much attention.
Orb was very safe for me, and now muffin is. I don't really care if they're new; I'm judging this off of playstyle
flatearthpandas
Member
Is this confirmed? Are you confirming this?
Vote: Kingkitty
Scum aside, maybe let's be careful about revealing whether or not the roles and setup in this game are the same as LB1. Seen a few other rather definitive looking statements. Never actually read through it all myself.
Just skimming through on my lunch break but did Vere ever fix that mess of computer script I assume was meant to be a point of some kind.
WhereAreMahDragonz
Banned
People I'd like to look at today:
-Muffin
-Kitsune
-Royal
Can't promise an ETA but it will happen soon
-Muffin
-Kitsune
-Royal
Can't promise an ETA but it will happen soon
It's not a confirmation. It's a pretty safe assumption.
In mobile and multi quote abandoned me so from memory in that catch up.
My vote on Darryl wasn't OMGUS. That would insinuate I was getting even and didn't think he was scum. I do because I still find him disengenuous.
Also aren't you voting for the Darryl boat right now Ouro? Or am I remembering wrong.
As far as this silencing thing. I'm still doubting Burb does the same thing again and makes it a neutral. So it's either town or scum and I have to disagree that it's so anti town that it can't be a town power. We've had plenty of negative utility on town PRs before and this isn't stopping communication either. The pair can still play, they just have to talk in here. Not really the end of the world.
My vote on Darryl wasn't OMGUS. That would insinuate I was getting even and didn't think he was scum. I do because I still find him disengenuous.
Also aren't you voting for the Darryl boat right now Ouro? Or am I remembering wrong.
As far as this silencing thing. I'm still doubting Burb does the same thing again and makes it a neutral. So it's either town or scum and I have to disagree that it's so anti town that it can't be a town power. We've had plenty of negative utility on town PRs before and this isn't stopping communication either. The pair can still play, they just have to talk in here. Not really the end of the world.
I had a prod vote for nin up, but I moved it a moment ago.
This is a weird question. It's a rare game where there is more than one scum chat. What are you on about?
Yeah I see that, slow typing on the toilet. Excuse me.
Last three from Fireblend were:
He was one of the few committed to that lynch, so maybe there's something to be drawn from that
He was one of the few committed to that lynch, so maybe there's something to be drawn from that
I'm all for going back and looking at the reads of deceased townies, but D1 reads are a crapshoot, and it's all WIFOM:
"Fireblend was killed because he figured out Kark!"
"Fireblend was killed because he was voting Kark, but it's misdirection because scum knows Kark is town!"
etc etc
flatearthpandas
Member
And usually town down have shared chats either. How huge is this precedent?
I'm enjoying this strategy where we assume things about the game and overlook and defend people making definitive statements about things we have no proof on yet but carry on.
I'm enjoying this strategy where we assume things about the game and overlook and defend people making definitive statements about things we have no proof on yet but carry on.
Right, but town-shared chats are explicitly stated when the game is described as a "pair game." There's no "assumption" there.
Assuming the standard is fine, to a point, where hopefully we get more information. Assuming extreme cases doesn't get us anywhere.
That was was I posted in the boat, then afterwards discussed it with Trigger that you looked kinda townie with your first arguments before Fat's attack. I'm not quite sure how far up you are now, but you're higher up.
I was playing around in my head with a scum team where you got paired with lower activity/weaker/scum read players and that much of the fight was desperation from you. I was bothered by not getting anything townie reading that fight.
With three hypothetical teams I wanted to push something down, but it looks like I have to choose something higher up.
Anywho
VOTE: kitsunelaine
Trigger got me to reread a bit and while kitsune came out slightly better it's not enough to make me vote for anyone else. I haven't read FEP as closely, but nothing feels like scum couldn't do it.
Kitsune seems to struggle to read people, but she didn't have much of a problem going all out attacking Dragonz. It feels forced.
He read of Worthy yesterday is maybe the best post I've seen from her, but still very observational and "easy". I can't quite see the townie behind the post trying to make sense of it if that makes sense.
flatearthpandas
Member
This is what the rules say. I think it's weird when people say things contradicting that explicitly. Not even as an assumption. If course assumptions are necessary but to forget we're making assumptions about mechanics seems dumb.
flatearthpandas
Member
And yes, I realize it's exactly the same as what is written in LB1. But again I'm seeing a lot of "assumptions" that various mechanics are the same as the first game and that seems dangerous. Let's be explicit with what we know and careful with what we assume.
Yes. I know. But we have precedent with LB1 where scum shared the chat.
Interesting notes on the whole lynch fiasco from D1.
Vere votes for Orb then complains about there being no "push" for Kark
Crimson and Ouro secured the lynch by wanting to prevent a tie.
Ty and Dragonz both mentioned that the lynch was too quiet, no one else acknowledged this(from what I can see), but Darryl voted kitsune and Sorian started the Orb train immediately following this.
Didn't really find what I had hoped to find over the exchange. However, Day 2, I noticed a few things about Worm.
And of course you beat me to the punch on this one. I'm with you on this one though. I'll bite the bullet here.
Vote: Dr. Worm
Side note: Holy crap Vere, you trying to kill us with that wall?
Vere votes for Orb then complains about there being no "push" for Kark
Crimson and Ouro secured the lynch by wanting to prevent a tie.
Ty and Dragonz both mentioned that the lynch was too quiet, no one else acknowledged this(from what I can see), but Darryl voted kitsune and Sorian started the Orb train immediately following this.
Didn't really find what I had hoped to find over the exchange. However, Day 2, I noticed a few things about Worm.
That's a role fish if I've ever seen one.
This post felt really quick and defensive to me. Do you know something about the scumchat?
And of course you beat me to the punch on this one. I'm with you on this one though. I'll bite the bullet here.
Vote: Dr. Worm
Side note: Holy crap Vere, you trying to kill us with that wall?
Vere's post looks perfect in Outer Gafia if you copy paste it
uhhhhh
So he made the post to his chat beforehand?