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[Natiko]

Taking out Darryl doesn't add up on anything unless they were there to kill the PR so that's a moot point. As far as reasoning is concerned, I don't see why they would come with anything serious as scum? There's no reason to distract from the easy lynch yesterday and the reasoning rac and Acohrs have been pushing since yesterday is "why is this PR still around?" You say yourself at the start that's how we get lynched anyway, what more reason is needed?

Killing Darryl removes someone more than willing to lynch you which goes against their theoretical goal as stated by you. I don't see how you can argue they were being meager with their push for you in order to not distract from the Star lynch, but today when they have nothing new to offer on why we should lynch you it's part of their grand plan to convince us all we should lynch you today. I'm just not seeing the justification for scum to play in this manner.

You flipped it again. It had nothing to do with who you voted for, it was the avoidance of voting Star that she is pointing out. I'm mostly just speaking for Saw here since I believe she went to sleep already.

Why avoid the easy lynch when everyone is on it? Clearly there's no one looking at accountability from that lynch. We even discussed before hand how no one would be held to any real scrutiny over a Star lynch.

 

[Nomadic Sparks]

Lucky for you, you can have my role claim like a week ago if you search hard enough.

For those of us in the back of the class, what exactly is your role claim?

 

[Ty4on]

After re-reading day 2, I just don't think xKark is scum. I think there would have been more chaos that day or at least one example of strange behavior had we hit the whole scum team with our silencing shot and the only possible evidence is fep's frustration, which could have been attributed to any number of things, from the RL shit he'd just been through to the way his partner had become a target. But there's really not anything else in that day that particularly stands out. Unless the scum team had decided early to bus kits regardless to earn cred (which is possible), it seems uneven. I welcome other thoughts on this.

I think they panicked. The default response for most scum players when pushed is to bus. I saw this especially in pop Mafia where scum got frustrated on a member who didn't report to their chat and panic bussed him on D1.

Scum don't need the chat to function tho. Players function by themselves too. Some players barely utilize the chat and still get great results.
To me the biggest proof is lack of coordination. It wasn't clear kitsune was going to be lynched until the end. There was town Ouro and presumably town Sorian as competing wagons. It's beneficial for scum to at least try to push one of these, but at the end kitsune won out.

I first thought this result meant that scum team was mostly inactive, but that doesn't really fly right now with Star flipping town.

 

[Royal_Flush]

Hey, Natiko, can you bring your partner up to date a bit in private? It's starting to get annoying. Thanks.

I've been waiting for some push on Sawrian, tbh. Because the only way i can make sense of the darryl NK is to make us suspicious of Sawrian. But other than racohrs I didn't really pick up on any. Hmm...

 

[Ty4on]

Killing Darryl removes someone more than willing to lynch you which goes against their theoretical goal as stated by you. I don't see how you can argue they were being meager with their push for you in order to not distract from the Star lynch, but today when they have nothing new to offer on why we should lynch you it's part of their grand plan to convince us all we should lynch you today. I'm just not seeing the justification for scum to play in this manner.

FWIW Darryl/Nin were fairly townread yesterday.

 

[Ty4on]

Since we're ganging up on Sorian boat I can ask Sawneeks: How would you respond to yourself here?

Eeeeeeeeeeeehhhhhhhhh

First question is newbie enough that it gets a pass for me but the other two don't do a whole lot. The 3rd one maybe a little more just because it's pure sheeping a veteran's opinion but that's it since it brought unneeded attention to themselves.

My return question is why do you think a Scum!Muffin/Sam would post these two posts? They're what is giving me Townie vibes on them and I just don't see a Scum Team writing off on making those posts.

 

[Ty4on]

Worth mentioning that Darryl scumread more pairs than Sorian's

I can buy Crimson and Sophia being scum. Their posts flip back and forth between accurate contributive assessments and sitting in the shadows. Almost randomly. They seem to be paying the most attention while also leading the least.

I don't know if I posted this before but the reason I chose Kit specifically to bandwagon day 1, besides fitting the obvious profile of a potential coasting scum, was because Crim voted for them. I was town reading them earlier but I had soured by the end of the night bc of how Crim responded to me and Sor. I thought Crimsons vote felt weak and like it wasn't going to go anywhere so I wanted to push it. Like it was a scum idly voting another scum.

But there are some things that make me read them as town even if they're kinda aloof feeling. Like Crim suggesting to not lynch Sor because of blocking a night kill. This is a really dangerous suggestion if Sor is actually town. Maybe scumCrim knows Sor isn't likely to be a threat with the blocks. Dunno.

I like the idea of lynching Karkador as well but I don't get that gut desire for a juicy flip. They're just super unhelpful. I expected something by now from them

 

[Natiko]

Hey, Natiko, can you bring your partner up to date a bit in private? It's starting to get annoying. Thanks.

I've been waiting for some push on Sawrian, tbh. Because the only way i can make sense of the darryl NK is to make us suspicious of Sawrian. But other than racohrs I didn't really pick up on any. Hmm...

I already did when he asked me what a hooker did during the night phase. I think he just has a bad memory lol

FWIW Darryl/Nin were fairly townread yesterday.

No one is town read more than Fran/Worm and they're alive.

 

[Xbro]

For those of us in the back of the class, what exactly is your role claim?

Did you just demand that he claim his role without knowing he already claimed?

 

[Sorian]

Killing Darryl removes someone more than willing to lynch you which goes against their theoretical goal as stated by you. I don't see how you can argue they were being meager with their push for you in order to not distract from the Star lynch, but today when they have nothing new to offer on why we should lynch you it's part of their grand plan to convince us all we should lynch you today. I'm just not seeing the justification for scum to play in this manner.


Why avoid the easy lynch when everyone is on it? Clearly there's no one looking at accountability from that lynch. We even discussed before hand how no one would be held to any real scrutiny over a Star lynch.

I'm confused what you are asking me? I don't think rac and acohrs have a grand plan. From their play so far, I don't think they can formulate anything that I'd describe as grand. It's not exactly rocket science to shade the people claiming a stereotypically scum role. If they get us lynched, great, if not scum just kills us whenever they want at night.

For those of us in the back of the class, what exactly is your role claim?

Town hooker, we've roleblocked Ouro, Ouro, Kark, Ty

Any more questions that can be answered by a read through of the thread or are you good?

Worth mentioning that Darryl scumread more pairs than Sorian's

Nah, he just scumread me and only me and I killed him because we can't be having any of that around here.

Spoiler

/s

 

[Sorian]

Oh, I will expand on that second part of Natiko's question. Yes, we said ahead of time that Star's vote would end up being an easy place to just plop a vote and run but that never actually ended up being the case. We had a whole shuffle around day end anyway and shortly after we brought that up, Sophia went out of her way to drop actual reasoning on why Star would be scum. It didn't end up being the policy lynch I originally thought it would be (still kind of but better).

 

[Dr. Worm]

No one is town read more than Fran/Worm and they're alive.

yeah, I'm pretty amazed by this as well

 

[franconp]

I'm going to be honest. I'm getting tired of Nomadic. Not so much by his complete inattention to the game but because he doesn't reply anything. I have already asked several questions to him and he just either answer something else or just don't even answer at all. And he not only did it to me.

Natiko is ok but I'm getting tired to keep trying to discuss with his partner and not receiving an answer. It's really frustrating.

 

[Nomadic Sparks]

I'm going to be honest. I'm getting tired of Nomadic. Not so much by his complete inattention to the game but because he doesn't reply anything. I have already asked several questions to him and he just either answer something else or just don't even answer at all. And he not only did it to me.

Natiko is ok but I'm getting tired to keep trying to discuss with his partner and not receiving an answer. It's really frustrating.

I'am making faces at you and farting in your general direction

 

[franconp]

I'am making faces at you and farting in your general direction

Thanks for your reply and reinforcing my point.

VOTE: Natiko

I'm done. It's not worthy keep trying anymore.

 

[Nomadic Sparks]

Thanks for your reply and reinforcing my point.

VOTE: Natiko

I'm done. It's not worthy keep trying anymore.

I'M rolling my eyes at this

Praytell, who would be hurt more by a Nats/NS lynch? Scum or town?

I mean c'mon man

 

[Xbro]

I'M rolling my eyes at this

Praytell, who would be hurt more by a Nats/NS lynch? Scum or town?

I mean c'mon man

Can't tell if you're serious right now.

 

[Sophia]

Nomadic's been weird this entire game, but I don't like his sudden behavior right now. :\

 

[Xbro]

Nomadic's been weird this entire game, but I don't like his sudden behavior right now. :\

Does he not usually play like this?

 

[Sophia]

Does he not usually play like this?

This is his second game, and first proper game, so I'm not sure about that. I just mean his behavior seems slightly aggressive in this day phase compared to how he was in earlier day phases.

 

[franconp]

Nomadic's been weird this entire game, but I don't like his sudden behavior right now. :

This is mostly a feeling and it's mostly by what I recall without double checking or looking at notes but I kinda feel that you are jumping on other people arguments to throw shade at people. I think I has spotted a couple of times you parroting another player arguments and throw shade without more push.

What do you think about this?

 

[hey_monkey]

Re: Nomadic Sparks: He's been in several games, but not full games, and yes, he plays like this to a point - very cryptic, doesn't answer questions, etc. However, I will say this, since today I'm going to be very tinfoil hat and try to push guesses to conclusions to see what might stick: this constant reshuffling of details and demand for repetition and forgetting of who's dead and who isn't starts to look like a schtick after a while. Like it's there to create chaos. It makes a good balance against Natiko.

Now, do I think it's purposeful? I don't know. Feels like a stretch. But it gets easy for us all to write Nomadic off as "just playing that way," too.

 

[Sophia]

This is mostly a feeling and it's mostly by what I recall without double checking or looking at notes but I kinda feel that you are jumping on other people arguments to throw shade at people. I think I has spotted a couple of times you parroting another player arguments and throw shade without more push.

What do you think about this?

Yeah, pretty much. In fact, I did it earlier looking at Sawneek's argument at Rac.

 

[Sophia]

Re: Nomadic Sparks: He's been in several games, but not full games, and yes, he plays like this to a point - very cryptic, doesn't answer questions, etc. However, I will say this, since today I'm going to be very tinfoil hat and try to push guesses to conclusions to see what might stick: this constant reshuffling of details and demand for repetition and forgetting of who's dead and who isn't starts to look like a schtick after a while. Like it's there to create chaos. It makes a good balance against Natiko.

Now, do I think it's purposeful? I don't know. Feels like a stretch. But it gets easy for us all to write Nomadic off as "just playing that way," too.

I'd have to go back and read all of Nomadic's posts, but the one's on this page feel pretty aggressive for him. Especially compared to the passive sheeping he was doing earlier.

Vote count

I want your roleclaim like right now

My attention span is shittier then the usual so c'mon get with it

I have less trouble believing that Sorian is scum more then anything else

Seems really obsessed about Sorian being scum for some reason.

God that Ouro lynch still hangs over my head like Damocles' sword.

I was so goddamn sure that Ouro was scum, I was just so sure of it.

idk about Sorian, they seems off.

Like they're overplaying town to compensate for something?

Am I wrong?

Why beat yourself up over the Ouro lynch? Like out of all the myslynches, why that one? More shade on Sorian too.

Sorian

Top scum is Sorian, no mention of Sawneeks tho.

I'am making faces at you and farting in your general direction

Shade at Fran.

I'M rolling my eyes at this

Praytell, who would be hurt more by a Nats/NS lynch? Scum or town?

I mean c'mon man

As if we somehow know his and Natiko's alignment. This is really stupid on a special level, because it's a fallacy. It's also basically OMGUS without the vote.

 

[hey_monkey]

And yet not a bit of that is particularly alignment indicative, is the thing, but I expect now it will dominate discussion for a time. That could be considered scummy, but not so much from N/NS if it results in their lynch.

Which is a very long way of asking: what do we gain from lynching them? Does it become something like the Star lynch, wherein we were concerned about her potential for chaos or inaction in mylo? Or is it indicative of a lack of direction in the game?

 

[franconp]

Yeah, pretty much. In fact, I did it earlier looking at Sawneek's argument at Rac.

So how about some actual reads?

Who do you think is the remaining scum members? Who are your towniest reads?

 

[Dr. Worm]

Hopefully we gain +1 for the dead scum pile from any lynch at this point

 

[franconp]

Which is a very long way of asking: what do we gain from lynching them?

Well, if they are scum we are a step closer to winning. If they are town the same as any other town lynch.

I will revert the question: what pair would give us info?

 

[acohrs]

C'mon lads, nomadic sparks play screams bored townie

 

[Sophia]

And yet not a bit of that is particularly alignment indicative, is the thing, but I expect now it will dominate discussion for a time. That could be considered scummy, but not so much from N/NS if it results in their lynch.

Which is a very long way of asking: what do we gain from lynching them? Does it become something like the Star lynch, wherein we were concerned about her potential for chaos or inaction in mylo? Or is it indicative of a lack of direction in the game?

I mean Nomadic basically looks like he's flailing around with no direction. If this were a solo game, I'd feel slightly confident about lynching him based on the sudden odd aggression in late game. That being said, I haven't read over Natiko well, so I'm not advocating his lynch yet.

So how about some actual reads?

Who do you think is the remaining scum members? Who are your towniest reads?

Leaning slightly town on on Sorian/Sawneeks and Royal/Hey_monkey, due to the aforementioned power roles That's pretty much it right now. Truth be told, I'm kind of drained on thoughts.

 

[acohrs]

And lasses sorry

 

[Sophia]

And lasses sorry

You're not sorry. : |

 

[acohrs]

You're not sorry. : |

I genuinely am, just forget that although we use lads to mean girls and boys in general in Ireland, I forget it isn't used like that everywhere, so worries!

 

[acohrs]

Sorries*

 

[hey_monkey]

Well, if they are scum we are a step closer to winning. If they are town the same as any other town lynch.

I will revert the question: what pair would give us info?

Probably not Natiko/NS. While Natiko's votes might be worth looking at, if they flip town, as I would think is probably more likely, the best we get is a look at the people who push it today - and that can probably just be chalked up to frustration with NS. Absent anything else happening, we're back where we are now. (Though Natiko's votes are interesting and perhaps we should look there).

A Sophist flip would probably let us know if we need to relook at xKark re: the silencing if they flipped scum. If town, we might look at those suddenly pushing them, particularly Sawneeks, who might be doing it if they are actually scum roleblockers. Same if xKark flipped scum; we'd want to look at Sophist.

No one's much on us so that flip wouldn't be particularly revealing, but who knows what will happen today. Similarly a Dr. Fran flip would be fascinating if they were actually scum but I think the only people who've shaded them at all are Sophist.

Sawneeks would be very revealing and probably has the most potential overall but if they are town roleblockers, I'm hesitant for obvious reasons, which leads to its own can of worms. I'll post more on this later. Similarly about to post on Trigger/Ty.

racohrs flipping town would also leave us approximately where we are now, maybe with more shade on us and/or Sawneeks; flipping scum would mean we go back and look at Schmuffin since racohrs has not left much of a footprint. Is that purposeful? Unknown.

 

[Ty4on]

C'mon lads, nomadic sparks play screams bored townie

👍

 

[Sophia]

A Sophist flip would probably let us know if we need to relook at xKark re: the silencing if they flipped scum. If town, we might look at those suddenly pushing them, particularly Sawneeks, who might be doing it if they are actually scum roleblockers. Same if xKark flipped scum; we'd want to look at Sophist.

I'd say if you flipped us today, look more at the people who have had a recent push on us without actually committing to it, like Natiko.

 

[hey_monkey]

So I already posted extensively on Ty4on and Trigger but I wanted to look at this, too:

This gave me a positive feeling about Ty for the first time in a while and I made myself go back and look at it to figure out why. Honestly, I think it's because he labeled us town. Oh good, I thought, he's come around to that again. But why? What's changed from his idea that I had an agenda? He voted me for that. But now just because of our claim we're town again? That was in play previously. Was I so easily assuaged?

I do like some of the points Ty4on makes here. The issue is that I'm not sure they're all consistent. For the past bit he's been on xKark - voted them yesterday, talks about them here, but as for the rest, I'm not sure. Let's look at his list:

I wanna eat and read a book before I go to bed so I'll just leave this here:

Town:
rac & acohrs
Sawneeks & Sorian
hey_monkey & Royal_Flush
franconp & Dr. Worm
Natiko & Nomadic Sparks

Scum
CrimsonFist & Sophia
Xbro & Karkador

In no order. As I wrote in my boat last day a lot of it is PoE:

Kinda hard to translate.
I don't see Muffin slot as scum for general behavior. Tons of little things like focusing hard on Darryl when kitsune/FEP were being lynched.
Natiko similarly was dead set on tunneling on me while they were being lynched and had no luck in getting people swayed. Even his teammate voted against him.
Flush is helped a lot by his claim. Just... why claim, why claim that power, why target those as scum, why be so focused on Ouro as near confirmed scum as scum...
Sorian is maybe the weakest one, but helped a lot by the claim. Suddenly it makes sense why the hooker kept blocking Ouro instead of looking for the virgins.

How does pulling attention OFF the kitsfep lynch make Schmuffin look townie? Wouldn't it be the opposite? Natiko/NS I think is whatever, inconclusive, but I addressed the next above - why so back and forth on Flush and I? What changed to move him back to this? Sorian - well, that's up for debate, though it might be worth looking at interactions between Ty and Sorian.

I had CrimSoph in my townie list for a long while, but thinking about it nothing really pushed them over the line. The light switch flicked when I started thinking about the chat block.

Being busy and unable to search through her boat is belivable, but it is still kinda weird that she has no recollection. That got me to their votes on D2:


They look odd for a team that was so calculating on D1. When Sophia was asked to clarify her reasoning:

It's devoid of any input from Crimson apart from his vote. That seems like something they'd discuss in their chat and Crimson doesn't explain in the leadup or after his vote why he changed to kitsune.

So that's where I'm at. I haven't actually gone very indepth, but it just clicks for me.

I think this stuff though is worth looking at. Is it consistent with them? Does it fit? But it does require xKark to also be scum. And does it fit with this?

I think they panicked. The default response for most scum players when pushed is to bus. I saw this especially in pop Mafia where scum got frustrated on a member who didn't report to their chat and panic bussed him on D1.

Scum don't need the chat to function tho. Players function by themselves too. Some players barely utilize the chat and still get great results.
To me the biggest proof is lack of coordination. It wasn't clear kitsune was going to be lynched until the end. There was town Ouro and presumably town Sorian as competing wagons. It's beneficial for scum to at least try to push one of these, but at the end kitsune won out.

I first thought this result meant that scum team was mostly inactive, but that doesn't really fly right now with Star flipping town.

It doesn't look like panic when I look back at Day 2. Sophia could have created chaos there as I already posted. This doesn't exonerate her, I just think it means this isn't quite as convincing.

 

[hey_monkey]

I'd say if you flipped us today, look more at the people who have had a recent push on us without actually committing to it, like Natiko.

Natiko isn't committed to anything so far except No Lynch and it was discussed early on in the day phase that people should be wary of voting. Not everyone weighed in on that but no one really disagreed either except for the Sawrian votes on racohrs, so I'm not convinced that's particularly revealing in and of itself. Just maybe part of the puzzle.

Though Natiko is a big driving force behind that.

 

[hey_monkey]

Oh, and addendum - it's not the first time Natiko has pushed against you, though that other time was not the finest showing and I'd rather not rehash it. He did vote you then.

 

[Sophia]

Natiko isn't committed to anything so far except No Lynch and it was discussed early on in the day phase that people should be wary of voting. Not everyone weighed in on that but no one really disagreed either except for the Sawrian votes on racohrs, so I'm not convinced that's particularly revealing in and of itself. Just maybe part of the puzzle.

Though Natiko is a big driving force behind that.

Yeah, but the big difference between him and Sawneeks is that Sawneeks has been voicing her suspicions on me for a lot of the game. For some reason, my gut is saying that I can't picture her doing that.

 

[Sophia]

Oh, and addendum - it's not the first time Natiko has pushed against you, though that other time was not the finest showing and I'd rather not rehash it. He did vote you then.

When was this...?

*goes to check*

 

[hey_monkey]

When was this...?

*goes to check*

The argument about you not voting on day 1 vs Life Stuff.

 

[Sophia]

The argument about you not voting on day 1 vs Life Stuff.

Oh, right. Yeah, just saw it. Natiko's logic at the time was solid, I just got upset because it felt like I was getting tag-teamed there. (Also, sorry about that, Natiko. I shouldn't have taken my frustrations out on you >_<)

Actually, re-reading it over, that gives me slight townie vibes for both Natiko and Nomadic. It was pretty well coordinated for a pair.

 

[hey_monkey]

I highly doubt N/NS are scum. It's possible and god knows I've been wrong before, but I'd put them near the bottom of my possibilities list, personally. They COULD be coordinating a really stellar effort to look town as hell but I don't think so.

 

[Sophia]

I highly doubt N/NS are scum. It's possible and god knows I've been wrong before, but I'd put them near the bottom of my possibilities list, personally. They COULD be coordinating a really stellar effort to look town as hell but I don't think so.

Yeah, I'm starting to doubt that too, for the reasons I mentioned above.

So that leaves three groups where I feel neutral on:
1. [m] rac & [m] acohrs
7. [m] Xbro & [m] Karkador
8. [m] Trigger & [m] Ty4on

One group I'm uncertain of because they claimed a power role that hasn't been verified yet, and I'm skeptical of power role claims this late in the game. Especially ones that "sucked", in their own words:
6. [m] franconp & [m] Dr. Worm

And three groups I feel slightly confident about:
3. [f] Sawneeks & [m] Sorian
5. [f] hey_monkey & [m] Royal_Flush
10. [m] Natiko & [m] Nomadic Sparks

Hmm...

 

[Natiko]

If you all think I would do nothing to reign in nomad if we're scum then you're silly. If you take it a step further and think this is some master plan to "be chaotic" or whatever it was monkey I believe said then you're extra silly. If you want to push a lynch based on nomad being nomad then go for it.

I'd say if you flipped us today, look more at the people who have had a recent push on us without actually committing to it, like Natiko.

Well that's definitely not an accurate representation. I actually laid out that I think you're scum yesterday and voted on you (this is ignoring the early D2 kerfuffle). I only moved because it was clearly not gaining momentum and I wanted to push the Kark lynch instead as I was skeptical that a Star one would give us much momentum and I thought Kark was almost as likely as you to flip scum. I only flipped to Star to prevent ties.

 

[Natiko]

Yeah, pretty much. In fact, I did it earlier looking at Sawneek's argument at Rac.

Is there a particular reason then?

 

[Ty4on]

How does pulling attention OFF the kitsfep lynch make Schmuffin look townie? Wouldn't it be the opposite?

I look at how players reflexively. The obvious response as an active scum player, especially a new one, when a teammate is on the line is that teammate. Their actions line up with someone who had their focus in a completely different place.

 

[Sophia]

Is there a particular reason then?

Not particularly, no. I just liked the argument that was presented. As I said above, I'm a bit drained on thoughts right now.