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[Sawneeks]

hmm, no

you're lying

??

Well Sorian seemed pretty confident that you were dead last night

I've been confident we were dying for the past few Nights. We're an open PR that just gets stronger as the game dwindles, I don't get it.

The only thing that makes any sense is if Sorian and I are way off on our read and the Scum Team is like one of Monkey/Royal and Natiko/Nomad or something and are the people we just haven't suspected so they're keeping us alive to mislynch today and win the game. Strongman is a possibility too.

 

[Royal_Flush]

I came in here prepared for the no kill and to yell at you to not yet vote on whoever Sawrian would claim to have blocked. Because that's what I would have done as Scum Sawrian. Send in no kill and gently wait for the final mislynch on whoever I "blocked".

I already had that thought yesterday but didn't tell anybody because if they had that plan they wouldn't have gone through with it then.

 

[hey_monkey]

hmm, no

you're lying

Please explain?

Did not expect racohrs to die. RIP, my dudes.

 

[CrimsonFist]

I came in here prepared for the no kill and to yell at you to not yet vote on whoever Sawrian would claim to have blocked. Because that's what I would have done as Scum Sawrian. Send in no kill and gently wait for the final mislynch on whoever I "blocked".

I already had that thought yesterday but didn't tell anybody because if they had that plan they wouldn't have gone through with it then.

I posted something similar in our gossip. No kill would have benefited scum more in most circumstances. Even ignoring Sawrian, nobody was 100% confirmed town, so killing just narrows down the options.

 

[Natiko]

Wasn't it Natiko that also felt confident they'd die too?

I had a feeling it would be us, yes. My second best guess was rac since they had lost heat on them.

I came in here prepared for the no kill and to yell at you to not yet vote on whoever Sawrian would claim to have blocked. Because that's what I would have done as Scum Sawrian. Send in no kill and gently wait for the final mislynch on whoever I "blocked".

I already had that thought yesterday but didn't tell anybody because if they had that plan they wouldn't have gone through with it then.

I already talked about how they could do that openly which likely discouraged them.

 

[Natiko]

Also me and nomad are vanilla and we ship Hillary Clinton and George W Bush. Such a sexy pair.

 

[CrimsonFist]

Kark were you planning on elaborating at all?

 

[Karkador]

On which point?

Your partner is Sophia. I know she takes meticulous notes. Beyond just meta reasons about her note-taking, we've SEEN her post some meticulous notes earlier in this game. So we can all assume she's taking good notes.

So you guys seriously didn't catch anything of what we said about our role? Asking us to claim now feels disingenuous, when we think we've made ourselves pretty clear. Thus, I detect lies.

What do you hope to accomplish by us claiming, anyway? Hoping we're secretly Cops and caught the killers? Or hoping we say just the right thing to get mislynched? We are way too close to losing here to ponder these meaningless questions. So what's the real intention?

 

[hey_monkey]

Wait a tick. I just went back and looked at something. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but:

Sawrian has never voted for Natiko Sparks, and vice versa.

Which, okay, I don't think Sawrian has voted for us, either. But both those pairs have voted just about everywhere else throughout the game, just never for each other. And while most of us have classified Natiko as town, Natiko has definitely called Sorian scummy during the game.

 

[Xbro]

Your partner is Sophia. I know she takes meticulous notes. Beyond just meta reasons about her note-taking, we've SEEN her post some meticulous notes earlier in this game. So we can all assume she's taking good notes.

So you guys seriously didn't catch anything of what we said about our role? Asking us to claim now feels disingenuous, when we think we've made ourselves pretty clear. Thus, I detect lies.

What do you hope to accomplish by us claiming, anyway? Hoping we're secretly Cops and caught the killers? Or hoping we say just the right thing to get mislynched? We are way too close to losing here to ponder these meaningless questions. So what's the real intention?

I think asking for a claim in Lylo is justified.

 

[hey_monkey]

I think asking for a claim in Lylo is justified.

I do too, but I've been asking for two days. However, it's kinda weird that y'all decided to have this disagreement in the thread.

Feels like Kark's fishing on a thin thread. Not sure why.

 

[Sophia]

Your partner is Sophia. I know she takes meticulous notes. Beyond just meta reasons about her note-taking, we've SEEN her post some meticulous notes earlier in this game. So we can all assume she's taking good notes.

So you guys seriously didn't catch anything of what we said about our role? Asking us to claim now feels disingenuous, when we think we've made ourselves pretty clear. Thus, I detect lies.

Feels like I'm back in school. Being accused of being a liar for taking too many notes. >_>;

Anyhow, no I haven't caught your role, and my notes taking haven't been as meticulous this game due to having the love boat + real life getting in the way.

 

[CrimsonFist]

Your partner is Sophia. I know she takes meticulous notes. Beyond just meta reasons about her note-taking, we've SEEN her post some meticulous notes earlier in this game. So we can all assume she's taking good notes.

So you guys seriously didn't catch anything of what we said about our role? Asking us to claim now feels disingenuous, when we think we've made ourselves pretty clear. Thus, I detect lies.

What do you hope to accomplish by us claiming, anyway? Hoping we're secretly Cops and caught the killers? Or hoping we say just the right thing to get mislynched? We are way too close to losing here to ponder these meaningless questions. So what's the real intention?

I mean, I said as much that I didn't expect anything other than vanilla from it, but it might have helped a few days ago if Tyrigger claimed, so it's always worth asking.

And no I still don't recall you claiming. Looking at your posts I guess this could be seen as a soft vanilla claim?

 

[Karkador]

Anyhow, no I haven't caught your role, and my notes taking haven't been as meticulous this game due to having the love boat + real life getting in the way.

fair enough, i wont question real life stuff, but is there any info dump you can give us?

I mean, I said as much that I didn't expect anything other than vanilla from it, but it might have helped a few days ago if Tyrigger claimed, so it's always worth asking.

I don't understand why he didn't claim, because it seems kind of impossible to not get some sort of insight out of that role. but that's another topic entirely

And no I still don't recall you claiming. Looking at your posts I guess this could be seen as a soft vanilla claim?

yes, ordinary town

 

[Sophia]

fair enough, i wont question real life stuff, but is there any info dump you can give us?

Not really. I'm looking over Day 2 votes to get a sense of what wen down there. Sorian and Sawneeks having a split vote there is what caught my attention, as they were both on Ouro (town) before Sorian switched to Kitsune (scum.) That being said, Sawneeks was apparently out for day end so...

 

[Natiko]

Wait a tick. I just went back and looked at something. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but:

Sawrian has never voted for Natiko Sparks, and vice versa.

Which, okay, I don't think Sawrian has voted for us, either. But both those pairs have voted just about everywhere else throughout the game, just never for each other. And while most of us have classified Natiko as town, Natiko has definitely called Sorian scummy during the game.

Because I town read him around day 2. Then as the game progressed my reads developed. I do scum read him, but I scum read Sophia/Crim above all and my votes have been placed as such. Plus once we flip Sophia as scum there will be yet another night phase and when Sorian comes out alive yet again it's going to be even more ridiculous. That's when there will be no doubt that he's scum as well.

 

[hey_monkey]

So your position is that Sawrian and Sophist are the scum?

 

[hey_monkey]

Because it'll be easy, in your scenario, for Sawrian to say "we blocked xKark, they are the scum," and then it's a tossup.

 

[Natiko]

So your position is that Sawrian and Sophist are the scum?

I think I've made that incredibly clear. I even outlined the order of which I think people could be scum yesterday and also explained that I put the odds of Sophia as scum at 100%, Sorian at 75%, and then you at 25%.

 

[Xbro]

I do too, but I've been asking for two days. However, it's kinda weird that y'all decided to have this disagreement in the thread.

Usually takes Kark a good bit to respond in chat. And on several occasions I've had him respond in the main thread before responding to me.

 

[Natiko]

Because it'll be easy, in your scenario, for Sawrian to say "we blocked xKark, they are the scum," and then it's a tossup.

Yes, it would in fact be easy for scum to lie. That doesn't change that I have the ability to think critically and realize that Sorian as scum blocker could attempt to frame someone by not submitting a night kill. I outlined as much yesterday.

 

[Sophia]

Because I town read him around day 2. Then as the game progressed my reads developed. I do scum read him, but I scum read Sophia/Crim above all and my votes have been placed as such. Plus once we flip Sophia as scum there will be yet another night phase and when Sorian comes out alive yet again it's going to be even more ridiculous. That's when there will be no doubt that he's scum as well.

No, actually, the game would be over.

I do find it amusing how you are so overly focused on me in your reads that you fail to mention my partner tho.

 

[Xbro]

No, actually, the game would be over.

I do find it amusing how you are so overly focused on me in your reads that you fail to mention my partner tho.

I thought he just barely mentioned your partner, unless you're referring to other posts.

Because I town read him around day 2. Then as the game progressed my reads developed. I do scum read him, but I scum read Sophia/Crim above all and my votes have been placed as such. Plus once we flip Sophia as scum there will be yet another night phase and when Sorian comes out alive yet again it's going to be even more ridiculous. That's when there will be no doubt that he's scum as well.

 

[Natiko]

No, actually, the game would be over.

I do find it amusing how you are so overly focused on me in your reads that you fail to mention my partner tho.

The sentence right before the bolded lists you both. I'm just lazy and don't like typing both out. Sue me lol

 

[Sophia]

I thought he just barely mentioned your partner, unless you're referring to other posts.

I was mainly referring to his earlier post, because it was kind of amusing in a somber way. That, and I mostly wanted to give him crap.

Everyone ready to lynch Sophia? I know I am!

 

[CrimsonFist]

Because I town read him around day 2. Then as the game progressed my reads developed. I do scum read him, but I scum read Sophia/Crim above all and my votes have been placed as such. Plus once we flip Sophia as scum there will be yet another night phase and when Sorian comes out alive yet again it's going to be even more ridiculous. That's when there will be no doubt that he's scum as well.

Ignoring that flipping us would end the game. Why would scum kill a town Sawrian tonight over anyone more town read? At this point there's no benefit since there wouldn't be another night anyway. So why do you need to wait another day to have no doubt that they're scum?

 

[hey_monkey]

I think I've made that incredibly clear. I even outlined the order of which I think people could be scum yesterday and also explained that I put the odds of Sophia as scum at 100%, Sorian at 75%, and then you at 25%.

Yes, it would in fact be easy for scum to lie. That doesn't change that I have the ability to think critically and realize that Sorian as scum blocker could attempt to frame someone by not submitting a night kill. I outlined as much yesterday.

Yes, but things shift. Certainly my opinions aren't static, so while it seems maybe you think I'm being more basic than necessary here, I'm interested in checking in to see how things sit today post-rachors' death and looking at possible remaining scum teams.

 

[Natiko]

Ignoring that flipping us would end the game. Why would scum kill a town Sawrian tonight over anyone more town read? At this point there's no benefit since there wouldn't be another night anyway. So why do you need to wait another day to have no doubt that they're scum?

Because at that point if Sorian is town then it'll be very easy for him to block their kill, there's only going to be so many targets left. Then scum are left with a coin flip if they win or lose. If they take Sorian out instead it's a 33% chance instead.

 

[Sawneeks]

Not really. I'm looking over Day 2 votes to get a sense of what wen down there. Sorian and Sawneeks having a split vote there is what caught my attention, as they were both on Ouro (town) before Sorian switched to Kitsune (scum.) That being said, Sawneeks was apparently out for day end so...

I was, I even clarified that to Fran when he asked me 2 or so Day Phases ago.

Ignoring that flipping us would end the game. Why would scum kill a town Sawrian tonight over anyone more town read? At this point there's no benefit since there wouldn't be another night anyway. So why do you need to wait another day to have no doubt that they're scum?

Did you just immediately go back on what you said in the first part of your response?

'Let's ignore the fact that killing us ends the game - question - but the game ends anyway when we die so whatever'.

 

[Natiko]

Yes, but things shift. Certainly my opinions aren't static, so while it seems maybe you think I'm being more basic than necessary here, I'm interested in checking in to see how things sit today post-rachors' death and looking at possible remaining scum teams.

I never said you couldn't. You're the one that posited those questions/statements in my direction so I'm answering.

 

[CrimsonFist]

I was, I even clarified that to Fran when he asked me 2 or so Day Phases ago.



Did you just immediately go back on what you said in the first part of your response?

'Let's ignore the fact that killing us ends the game - question - but the game ends anyway when we die so whatever'.

I mean that in Natiko's premise, there would be another night tonight, but not one the night after, since tomorrow would be the final day, so there's no reason to kill you over anyone else since you'd get to use your power tonight anyway.

 

[Sophia]

Because at that point if Sorian is town then it'll be very easy for him to block their kill, there's only going to be so many targets left. Then scum are left with a coin flip if they win or lose. If they take Sorian out instead it's a 33% chance instead.

I believe what he's trying to say is: It doesn't matter to shoot Town!Sorian now because their next roleblock attempt is going off regardless? It's the last night phase, so as far as targets go they're all equal.

 

[Sawneeks]

I mean that in Natiko's premise, there would be another night tonight, but not one the night after, since tomorrow would be the final day, so there's no reason to kill you over anyone else since you'd get to use your power tonight anyway.

I believe what he's trying to say is: It doesn't matter to shoot Town!Sorian now because their next roleblock attempt is going off regardless? It's the last night phase, so as far as targets go they're all equal.

Okay, that actually makes much more sense.

I took that as you saying something else entirely, my mistake. :x

 

[hey_monkey]

So it seems to me if the overriding feeling is that Sawrian is scum, they should be killed first. Meaning if we think the team is Sawrian + Sophist, Sawrian gets lynched, and then sure, Sophist kills someone tonight, but they still get lynched tomorrow. Otherwise there's a question on the table.

I am not advocating this myself, but just positing. Please do correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[CrimsonFist]

Because at that point if Sorian is town then it'll be very easy for him to block their kill, there's only going to be so many targets left. Then scum are left with a coin flip if they win or lose. If they take Sorian out instead it's a 33% chance instead.

Still not getting this, how can they take out Sorian if Sawrian block them?

 

[Sorian]

Well Sorian seemed pretty confident that you were dead last night

There is no reason why we shouldn't be dead. This is extremely dumb unless there is a game related reason our block isn't working. At this point, the gamble is way to high just hoping we don't block them.

I came in here prepared for the no kill and to yell at you to not yet vote on whoever Sawrian would claim to have blocked. Because that's what I would have done as Scum Sawrian. Send in no kill and gently wait for the final mislynch on whoever I "blocked".

I already had that thought yesterday but didn't tell anybody because if they had that plan they wouldn't have gone through with it then.

Natiko already talked about this yesterday anyway so if I'm able to be spooked off plans then this is a moot point anyway but I have no reason not to go for it as scum. The only downside is that it changes the game back from lylo to mylo but it adds such a huge layer of WIFOM that it throws the whole game into disarray anyway. Now, we could have actually succeeded in our block too but that is just something I would have had to fight for.

Wait a tick. I just went back and looked at something. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but:

Sawrian has never voted for Natiko Sparks, and vice versa.

Which, okay, I don't think Sawrian has voted for us, either. But both those pairs have voted just about everywhere else throughout the game, just never for each other. And while most of us have classified Natiko as town, Natiko has definitely called Sorian scummy during the game.

That sounds right. I don't think they are scum and Natiko has never really been creeping behind the scenes so I've had to reason to vote to lynch them or pressure them. Sparks is just weird but whatever.

 

[Sorian]

Still not getting this, how can they take out Sorian if Sawrian block them?

He's talking about the odds of killing me last night and you are talking about the odds of killing me tonight.

I think.

 

[Sawneeks]

So it seems to me if the overriding feeling is that Sawrian is scum, they should be killed first. Meaning if we think the team is Sawrian + Sophist, Sawrian gets lynched, and then sure, Sophist kills someone tonight, but they still get lynched tomorrow. Otherwise there's a question on the table.

I am not advocating this myself, but just positing. Please do correct me if I'm wrong.

If you want to lose the game, sure.

And are Sorian and I not even going to have a case thrown against us outside 'man you guys lived so long THAT'S SCUMMY' or are you guys just going to shuffle into a mislynch? Because I really want to get this all out now instead of it being thrown out at Day End and you guys lynch us anyway and lose.

 

[Sorian]

So it seems to me if the overriding feeling is that Sawrian is scum, they should be killed first. Meaning if we think the team is Sawrian + Sophist, Sawrian gets lynched, and then sure, Sophist kills someone tonight, but they still get lynched tomorrow. Otherwise there's a question on the table.

I am not advocating this myself, but just positing. Please do correct me if I'm wrong.

Wouldn't it be the other way around? Being around another night means that we can block again. If we are scum, there is nothing for us to block at this stage from what I'm seeing and as town, we get another shot at blocking the kill for whatever that seems to be worth. If the overwhelming majority think we are scum and have no clue who the partner is then sure, that's something we need to deal with but if you all are going to partner me up with someone else then the most efficient approach is getting the second party right.

And yes, I'm aware that I'm playing a slight mind game there, I'd rather not lose on my own mislynch after the worst framing ever.

 

[Natiko]

I believe what he's trying to say is: It doesn't matter to shoot Town!Sorian now because their next roleblock attempt is going off regardless? It's the last night phase, so as far as targets go they're all equal.

I don't think you're following what I mean. We lynch today and hit scum it drops to 3v1. Town Sorian makes his block and we enter the next day 3v1 then one of those two people are getting lynched for sure. It's a 50/50 chance for scum to win or lose.

"But what if they just don't submit a night kill to frame whoever Sorian blocks"

Okay, in this scenario it's now a 33% chance Sorian picked the last scum anyways and considering he's a competent player you could argue his critical thinking makes it an even higher percentage but that's neither here nor there.

"Okay so why exactly should they kill Sorian again?"

Because if they kill Sorian and he doesn't successfully block them then it goes into the final day 2v1. Scum have the same 33% chance as above but now with Sorian, a respected mafia player, removed from helping the remaining town players pick the right scum.

Hence, it is in scum's best interests to kill Sorian if he is town.

 

[Natiko]

So it seems to me if the overriding feeling is that Sawrian is scum, they should be killed first. Meaning if we think the team is Sawrian + Sophist, Sawrian gets lynched, and then sure, Sophist kills someone tonight, but they still get lynched tomorrow. Otherwise there's a question on the table.

I am not advocating this myself, but just positing. Please do correct me if I'm wrong.

I very much disagree. If Sorian is actually Town then he still may be killed by scum as it helps their odds of winning. If Sorian is scum then his continued survival will limit their odds of winning down to a 50/50 final day anyways which isn't great. Plus if Sorian is scum we know his role and there's nothing left that he can do. We don't know what the other scum role would be, we can speculate but I'd rather reveal the question mark. I believe that question mark is Sophia/Crim and believe they're the correct lynch today.

 

[El Topo]

Did you really think my countdown was a hoax?

LIVE MAFIA ON FRIDAY

 

[Sophia]

Did you really think my countdown was a hoax?

LIVE MAFIA ON FRIDAY

Dude, we're in the middle of Mylo. Get the fuck out of the thread. : \

 

[hey_monkey]

I agree that determining the teams in general is the way, so I'm looking back at what I did already and will reframe it here:

Having watched this go down but not been in it myself, I am nervous but it does seem to be the only way. Because there's suspicion on almost all teams left, but at different levels:

Natiko Sparks is unlikely to be scum with Sawrian and Sophist, but could be scum with the others.

racohrs is unlikely to be scum with Sophist or us.

XKark could be scum with Sophist but probably not with us or with Sawrian.

Sawrian is a wild card here because assuming they ARE town roleblockers, they are a threat to scum, but we suspect them and they have voted all over the place and could be argued as scum.

We look awfully scummy for leading a charge on Ty but are unlikely to be scum with xKark at least, and probably not with racohrs.

Sophist has not left much of a trail but is still probably not scum with Natiko Sparks or racohrs.

There are more permutations, but at this point it starts to become a logic puzzle. Just in the case of this game, a sneaky logic puzzle full of lies.

New version:
Natiko Sparks is unlikely to be on a scum team with Sophist, but could be scum with any of the others. They have not been much pushed in general.

XKark looks less likely to be on a scum team with Sophist today, though votes could tell a different story. Probably not scum with Sawrian or us. Could be scum with Natiko Sparks.

Sawrian could be scum with us or Natiko Sparks; less likely with XKark or Sophist, unless they've lied about blocking the latter.

Sophist is probably not scum with Natiko Sparks - unlikely scum with Sawrian unless Sawrian is lying, and unlikely with XKark unless they are squabbling today for show. Possibly scum with us, I guess, because we have few connections.

So Sophist is the question mark - can we go through the options for their scum partners more carefully?

 

[hey_monkey]

I very much disagree. If Sorian is actually Town then he still may be killed by scum as it helps their odds of winning. If Sorian is scum then his continued survival will limit their odds of winning down to a 50/50 final day anyways which isn't great. Plus if Sorian is scum we know his role and there's nothing left that he can do. We don't know what the other scum role would be, we can speculate but I'd rather reveal the question mark. I believe that question mark is Sophia/Crim and believe they're the correct lynch today.

I was asking a question - the short version was if Sawrian is scum, why don't we kill them first. I got a good answer regardless, but I repeat that I was not advocating but rather curious as to why we let them live.

 

[Natiko]

I feel like you think I hate you or something when I'm just posting my thoughts D:

 

[hey_monkey]

I feel like you think I hate you or something when I'm just posting my thoughts D:

Let's hug it out. But after the game, though, in case you're being a sneaky scummy guy.

 

[Natiko]

Let's hug it out. But after the game, though, in case you're being a sneaky scummy guy.

Just wanted to make sure you know I'm not trying to insult your perspective or ideas, so I apologize if I'm coming off like that. This is actually my first time reaching end game as Town so it's kind of exciting and I feel really good about my reads. So..apologies if I'm stepping on toes lol

 

[hey_monkey]

Just wanted to make sure you know I'm not trying to insult your perspective or ideas, so I apologize if I'm coming off like that. This is actually my first time reaching end game as Town so it's kind of exciting and I feel really good about my reads. So..apologies if I'm stepping on toes lol

Can you share that because it's also my first time but I'm TERRIFIED OF LOSING AND BEING MOCKED IN THE SPEC THREAD

 

[hey_monkey]

ANYWAY tho - I feel like possibilities for scum partnerships got broader after last night instead of narrower. Maybe because racohrs had been in such a strange position relative to the game.