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Love Boat [Mafia] |OT| Till Death Do Us Part
- Thread starter Burbeting
- Start date
Ok not the millers. So besides Boo, who does have your attention so far?
Yeah, I agree with you there my fiery friend.
coppacabanawithnoAC - don't like the quick voting by either partner to take out the timeflux-blargkawl combo.
mcgolak - giving me an empty vibe, mclaunchpad in particular. seems more than willing to glide among the trees, observing but not touching. might be easy for scum to do in a crowded game.
rest - he in particular seems a little too deadset on the whole policy lynch thing where no matter what, unless the roleclaim is at the end of the day under pressure. it does smell like old, wet socks when someone roleclaims way too early, for reasons that are less than great. but i don't like this idea of sticking hard to a policy lynch. people make bad moves, but the ship can still be turned around. i believe in redemption. public shaming is a better punishment.
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
Hey
I'm basically on the same page as him for the first half of that post, but I don't share the same sentiments about Splinter/Cabot or the other pair, however Cabot attacking us for attacking him... well, it seems like a Cabot thing to do, so I don't think much of it. I will defend myself if he pushes, though. Mostly, I'm waiting for something to jump out at me - it feels like the more we play mafia here, the more careful and harder to read people become.
I really, really don't have enough of an opinion, which is why I've not said much.
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
Ok, I didn't even see so many posts were directed at me and Gorlak until just now. Most of the discussion so far has seemed... well, to be frank, a waste of time. I'll be more proactive if that's what people want from me.
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
What has caused you to form this opinion, friend?
I've given my opinion on your shenanigans, multiple times if I'm not mistaken. That's about all I've had so far. I will say, though, I have strong gut feelings about multiple players, but again nothing to really act on. I got burned pretty bad last game I played (tl;dr: lots of bad calls on lynches, realized who last scum was too late, terrible gambits), so you can understand me being a bit more cautious this time around.
Also, re:communication outside of thread, Gorlak and I have a steady stream of it, yes, but it's mostly observations of other players I don't feel are fit for discussion in this thread - as is our right. I don't trust anyone else.
I am.
I call people out for this kind of shit. To be honest, I could do better. I've been a bit busy with valentine's this weekend and I probably could have picked at a few bones more, but I'll get my head in the game going forward.
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
Yes, please.
I didn't respond to this.
Gorlak is playing well. His opinions are well-formed outside of the thread and his posts are pretty high quality. I've not had much to say, and what little I have, I have said without reservation. If you want to say something, cabot, come out and say it. Stop trying to get people to form an argument for you.
Haha, oh man. Hey, Boss Bear (i.e. Burbeting), could I have special permission to quote one of my own posts that I made in a previous Gafia thread? Because, if peeps from WW2 remember, this is almost exactly what I said after WW1 crashed and burned and I returned as a Neutral player looking to be scum.
But yeah, I actually forgot to add to my original comment that pretty much all you've commented on is on my team. There's no point in D1 revolving around a single subject.
Yes, please.
I didn't respond to this.
Gorlak is playing well. His opinions are well-formed outside of the thread and his posts are pretty high quality. I've not had much to say, and what little I have, I have said without reservation. If you want to say something, cabot, come out and say it. Stop trying to get people to form an argument for you.
It's not enough to stew inside your collective head, Gorlaunch. Mafia is played by communication, not mind-reading.
I mean it's one thing to comment that nobody has said anything important, but are you helping?
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
What else would you have me comment on? Please be specific; I don't have that much time to comb through posts.
I also commented that the Miller/Track claim is probably legit, because it just makes sense - yours is the one that doesn't. I would believe there is a miller role with a semi-important role, a sort of balancing scheme; moreover, a miller should claim early, as team Blarg has. I don't see any reason to doubt them. So, yeah, I think you're trying to bait some reactions and I don't really want to go after you.
I also called out Tim, but apparently I'm missing some context for his actions.
I'm not sure I can help by posting a whole lot, or even a moderate amount more, either, but if that's what people want, here I am.
For what it's worth, Kark, I think you're with town. Everything you've said has been pro-town, including this.
Hell if I know, whatever anyone else is commenting on? Even if you think D1 conversation is pointless, it creates building blocks that we can refer to on subsequent Day phases when we have more information to work with. All of this serves to find scum, as useless as it may seem.
You're not going to have much sway in later days if you take a stance then that you showed no hint of before, too.
Yea, I'm a lying sack of shit. Tired from work/gym. Since we still have over two days, I will actually make use of my work day to contribute analysis and not just play defense for me and blarg's claim. (The burn from all that wasted energy on my own time for the pointless VI day 1 still stings right now.)
Hmm, fair enough. Admittedly the Flux/Time/Blarg/Kawl topic has dominated a lot of the discussion, but I still think there's more to be talked about than just that. As for cabot, but I'm personally not seeing too much that strikes me as unusual about him.
Definitely. Echoing back to what I said a few pages ago, a lot of what happens on Day 1 will be relevant closer to the endgame. Admittedly I'm probably not the best person to say this, but it does help no matter how mundane. Don't have to be a really high poster like *Splinter either.
As Tim said earlier, giving your opinion is important.
I still don't really see how Miller balances a Tracker. A tracker is relatively better than a miller, of course, but it's a pretty bad counterweight.
A typical tracker role is already, by design, working on a disadvantage of having a fairly incomplete picture of the situation. They have a pretty wide margin for misinterpreting results (or just not hitting a result at all).
If Town has a Cop who could potentially trip on the Miller, and a Tracker role attached to a Miller, then ..I just hope we also have something really cool that's actually going to help us.
In other words, the Miller/Tracker claim makes no sense.
Ty4on, and to a couple others. It seems like there is a very slow flow of votes towards Coppa and I. Ty4on, you're reasoning is that you're "not sold on us" and "you see others warming to us". What kind of reasoning is that? I'm not changing my vote from an inactive, but that vote is basically a typical "I see votes flowing one way, I'm gonna drop in and no one will care."
If you or anyone else had real reasoning then maybe Coppa and I could try and respond, as it is, the argument is "Coppa seems kinda like he did that one time he was scum, and I am policy voting a miller so I must be scum too."
I think as a pair we've contributed to the discussion so far, but I guess not?
If you or anyone else had real reasoning then maybe Coppa and I could try and respond, as it is, the argument is "Coppa seems kinda like he did that one time he was scum, and I am policy voting a miller so I must be scum too."
I think as a pair we've contributed to the discussion so far, but I guess not?
The problem is you're basing your opinion largely on setup spec and tunneling on it. Is it possible they are lying? Sure of course. And if you think that's the case, feel free to vote. But saying "a moderator would never do this" is just silly given the lack of info here.
Both of you came out of the gate, let's say eagerly, and made some reactionary posts. On day one, when there is so little to go on, anything that stands out will draw attention. Don't like the votes on you? Make a better case against someone else.
What's your opinion on kitty / hyper?
I don't see a problem with it. There are facts about the game.
Why are you so concerned about my vote?
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
I'm not sure if there is, I'll comment as they crop up.
This isn't my first rodeo, Flux. I know how the flow goes. That said, I usually start off pretty reserved and home in on stuff; that's how I play. I suspect I'll find something to latch onto soon.
Ok, let me stop you before you go too far up your own butt with the meta talk
just kidding, you already did
Hyper feels like he's lying low, which is strange for him. KK seems to be acting like he usually does - nothing has separated his behavior from how he usually plays.
Where is UltraJay indeed? That said, you're at least posting so I'm moving my vote off you for now. The one thing you didn't touch on (which I suppose I didn't ask you about specifically) is: Why did you mention look at KingKitty tomorrow? You specifically called that timeframe out, and I'm curious why you specified then instead of saying today. We have 2.5 days left, plenty of time to look at everybody and I see no reason you should want to wait to question him.
Right now I'm seeing plenty of people who aren't contributing and I really don't like letting that slide. I'm not content to let my vote waste away on them right now, but I think we really need to be pinging some people for input if it gets past the 48 hour mark and we get nothing more:
UltraJay (No posts, even his partner seems confused)
Miracle/El Topo (I know Topo was busy until tonight, but they've both been quiet)
Kyanrute/Retroid (Really quiet from these 2, to the extent I almost forget they're here)
Hyperactivity (Posted some, has a vote out, but for the most part posts are very light)
MagnumBoy20xx (No posts outside of a shocked one when he entered)
I fully expect something from each of you before the end of the day.
As for right now, I have some questions for TL21xx since he's been around and shared some thoughts:
Vote: TL21xx
You've said 2 things this whole game and there's already a minor inconsistency in your thoughts. When you first showed up you said:
But today when you posted at a keyboard you seemed to have switched:
I'm just curious why you went from hating D1 claims to being ok with it (or at least ok enough to let them live). What made you change your heart here? You've taken a neutral stance here, where do you stand on believing them? As people have said, Day 1 is about setting up beliefs and watching people try to argue out of them later. You've set yourself up right in the middle of all this, and I would like to see a stance on this rather than making up your mind "After all this has played out".
I'm not only looking at it from a game design point of view. The way the role was revealed and the insistence on clearing Flux with it is arguably even more nonsense then the Miller/Tracker mix.
To recap:
1) They needlessly revealed the Tracker part of the role, when they only needed to reveal the Miller part. Any amount of prudence would have had them keep the Tracker part secret.
2) They claim they can verify Flux's claim of being a Name Cop, despite admitting that their role name is ambiguous; meaning that we don't get an answer on whether Blarg/Kawl are Town or Scum.
The verification means nothing because if Blawl are scum and Timeflux are Town, it still wouldn't really impact Blawl's position to confirm them. This is like scum asking a Cop to come to their door and present themselves. Do you see how this is fishy?
There's no change in stance Coppa. I don't like Day 1 claims because they don't do town any good. It's better to lay low and wait until at least Day 2. My reason for not voting is the same reason I don't like it; it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. I am considering a policy lynch on Flux, but there isn't a lot of support at the moment, and I don't want to waste my vote. That's why I am taking a "wait and see" approach.
I'm still kind of a Mafia amateur, so may I ask why not?
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
When the hell did I say it clears Flux? I've said just the opposite, and I've given my assessment that Flux is baiting people with a bullshit claim.
Those two are good points, though.
1) Revealing the tracker part has two express purposes: one, create general confusion and stir the pot; and two, try to clear them as viable lynching candidates.
2) I never said I was on board with this verification. It creates too much room of trickery when you let all the decisions lie in the outcome of a single action. For right now, I would rather think we've got no useful actions except to discuss this until we find mafia.
Frankly, if we want to lynch someone today, I'm in the boat of punishing the players who are playing as rashly as Flux/Time and Blarklawl. My partner is in the camp of no lynch - I firmly disagree, even if I won't openly go against him on this.
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
Yeah... don't do that again. :l
Also, I may have misworded that. I meant I won't fight Gorlak on it. It's his opinion, but he's my partner so I have to respect it..
Bringing up thoughts where we can get to conclusions that are worthwhile instead of endless conjecture would probably be better
Yes, please.
I didn't respond to this.
Gorlak is playing well. His opinions are well-formed outside of the thread and his posts are pretty high quality. I've not had much to say, and what little I have, I have said without reservation. If you want to say something, cabot, come out and say it. Stop trying to get people to form an argument for you.
I was frustrated discussion circling the two claims, this was my attempt at moving it away from there.
The warming up was mostly extrapolated from this post and the lack of votes and pressure against you lately.
Regarding my suspicion against you Sophia was one of the first to call you two out so it's not something recent. I've been suspicious of you ever since then.
My read of you is fractured and consists of lot's of small observations. I imagine pairs would be connected from discussing the game in their own thread, but you two seem weirdly fractured. I'm not thinking of voting for two different people (that's not suspicious at all in my eyes), but you seem to be on different pages regarding the game. There's also been a lack of standout posts by you that I'd consider especially town, but I haven't looked that hard. The observations you've posted don't seem like genuine concerns to you.
Pretty much all of the yous are plural BTW.
I still feel uncomfortable about Cabot and Splinter. They are good players and know it. They were handwaving my arguments with bullshit reasoning - i.e. "that's how we roll" yeah, that's exactly how you not played in MGS, like the game you both were town (hello meta). Anyway this is Day 1, my gut feeling and instincts raise the alarm, but obviously I'm alone in this. Your retaliation only strengthened my doubts. Moving discussion away from circle-jerking the claims, surely only with the best interests of town in mind. It was a coincidence you went for someone who openly expressed his distrusts of you...?
I gave specific insight to my views, if you want to talk, directly ask me.
I gave specific insight to my views, if you want to talk, directly ask me.
Don't know what you're talking about buddy. I directly responded to your post mentioning what you thought of us, and launchs point was nonsensical because what I said to ty was exactly what I said earlier yesterday.
I don't know what you remember of Mgs but apparently not a lot. Using meta is bad enough, using warped meta is worse.
It's nice to think you're so confident in your belief that you would take us down day 1 when there have been half pairs and pairs doing almost nothing in this phase that'll get a pass.
Cheers, thanks.
I don't know what you remember of Mgs but apparently not a lot. Using meta is bad enough, using warped meta is worse.
It's nice to think you're so confident in your belief that you would take us down day 1 when there have been half pairs and pairs doing almost nothing in this phase that'll get a pass.
Cheers, thanks.
I feel pretty good about So4ia. They are saying enough, and all of it makes sense. Not detecting any hidden agendas at this time.
Still don't like Floppa, and Gorpad definitely has my attention.
After thinking over yesterday, I feel kind of good about KarkedPinhead. Or at least, as good as you can expect to feel about a team consisting of Zipped and Kark.
I have soft town reads on Hyperkitty and TLCam, although the Hyperkitty read does fluctuate a bit.
NeverTim will probably be a personal blind spot, but my lover seems to have some faith in them.
BooJay are coasting. This is a bit boring but I'm forced to admit they're a good lynch target right now.
Apparently El Miracle are also in this game.
Who did I miss?
Oh, Blawtux have been discussed to death. As said before I'll revisit them D2.
Still don't like Floppa, and Gorpad definitely has my attention.
After thinking over yesterday, I feel kind of good about KarkedPinhead. Or at least, as good as you can expect to feel about a team consisting of Zipped and Kark.
I have soft town reads on Hyperkitty and TLCam, although the Hyperkitty read does fluctuate a bit.
NeverTim will probably be a personal blind spot, but my lover seems to have some faith in them.
BooJay are coasting. This is a bit boring but I'm forced to admit they're a good lynch target right now.
Apparently El Miracle are also in this game.
Who did I miss?
Oh, Blawtux have been discussed to death. As said before I'll revisit them D2.
Because they've posted so much I'm curious if you're suspicious of anything Cabot and Splinter haven't posted. Your suspicion seems to be based on a feeling they're fluffy and posting a lot to steer discussion so I wonder what you'd like to see coming from them.
I don't suspect you for attacking us, I suspect you because your reasoning feels forced. I don't believe you have a sincere suspicion against us based on the points you've made, and there are only a couple of reasons to fake that.
I've not paid great attention to Flame and Coppa just yet, simply because they didn't stand out. Reread all their posts just now.
They are fairly active and quickly jumped on both of the claims with a vote (which others did as well). Worringly about this might be the fact that they retracted from their standpoints pretty fast once they experienced headwind on those matters. Withdrawing from your view this early is a sign of insecurity. Still I don't feel this would be anywhere near enough to vote for them.
Kawl mentioned they came out with every detail, to not be distrusted later. This was a poor choice, but at the same time surprisingly lessens my doubts about them. It would be wrong to lynch them today.
Flux I await the second part of your unnecessary gambit soon. For the record: I don't think you actually have a cop role, but somehow still are town. The reactions are out and you don't want us to hazardously decide on a lynch at the last minute? Alternatively Timeaisis could help us on that matter. Maybe you also want to offer some more opinions on anything as you were quite silent.
One more important aspect are all those lurker at the bottom of the post count...
Retroid + Kyanrute (6!)
UltraJay + Boo Boo'n (10)
Camjo-Z + TL21xx (10)
Rest + Karu (11)
Miracle + El Topo (13)
1/3 of the players have less posts than the anyone of the top 3. Please step up.
For sentimental reason I really would like to hear from Miracle! How are you? Who would you lynch, who do you find suspicious, what do you think of the claims, how does El Topo treat you?
They are fairly active and quickly jumped on both of the claims with a vote (which others did as well). Worringly about this might be the fact that they retracted from their standpoints pretty fast once they experienced headwind on those matters. Withdrawing from your view this early is a sign of insecurity. Still I don't feel this would be anywhere near enough to vote for them.
Kawl mentioned they came out with every detail, to not be distrusted later. This was a poor choice, but at the same time surprisingly lessens my doubts about them. It would be wrong to lynch them today.
Flux I await the second part of your unnecessary gambit soon. For the record: I don't think you actually have a cop role, but somehow still are town. The reactions are out and you don't want us to hazardously decide on a lynch at the last minute? Alternatively Timeaisis could help us on that matter. Maybe you also want to offer some more opinions on anything as you were quite silent.
One more important aspect are all those lurker at the bottom of the post count...
Retroid + Kyanrute (6!)
UltraJay + Boo Boo'n (10)
Camjo-Z + TL21xx (10)
Rest + Karu (11)
Miracle + El Topo (13)
1/3 of the players have less posts than the anyone of the top 3. Please step up.
For sentimental reason I really would like to hear from Miracle! How are you? Who would you lynch, who do you find suspicious, what do you think of the claims, how does El Topo treat you?
I can't speak for Miracle, but I have followed the game despite work. I just don't want to post prematurely, especially since I'm trying a more thorough approach this time. I'd also prefer to consult Miracle first, before voting/accusing someone.
I see, the Launchpad Defense. I hate it, but since you aren't the absolute bottom of the activity pile I guess I can afford to "wait and see"
I never asked for this
Quickly gonna complete my list from yesterday...
TL21xx: Said nothing of value. But doesn't deviate to much from his usual D1-mo as far as I can tell.
Camjo-Z: Doesn't want to participate in Day 1 on principle. I understand not liking D1, but outright blocking any D1-efforts stinks. Especially if both do it. Reeks of arrangement.
MagnumBoy: Nothing.
batsnacks: Don't like his plan which could potentially lead to a town-role reveal, but together with the rest of his posts it seems more like an honest proposel.
Kyanrute: Made two posts, analyzing the claims. Seems reasonable. Not much of a read here.
Retroid: Nothing. Said he wanted to post shortly. Didn't.
El Topo: Wants to kill flux/time, nothing else, but has work on the side.
Miracle: Nothing.
Never Forever: Urges everyone to Vote, because D1-information. Decides to post little to no further information himself. Okay.
CzarTim: Mhhm... plays straight and is eager to poke people, but not for long.
Sophia: Seems okay so far.
Ty4on: Dito. Which makes me a bit wary, though, heh.
Quite a few Nothing-players, which I'm inclined to focus on since I don't necessarily wanna kill the claimants today.
To anyone talking themselves out of D1, because the discussion circles around the claims and not much else's going on: lol, (I believe flux already mentioned this, though) what do you expect? Seems like a really suspicious sentiment in my eyes.
Will place my Vote on...
VOTE: Never Forever
Behaviour of him and Tim seem more like grabbing superficial nuggets to play with rather than making a true effort. Not a locked-in vote by any means, though.
Update on:
Karkador: I mean... I get what he's saying - at least I think so - but his confusion about the night actions is unfortunate. Seems dedicated - ironically like flux in Heist.
TL21xx: Said nothing of value. But doesn't deviate to much from his usual D1-mo as far as I can tell.
Camjo-Z: Doesn't want to participate in Day 1 on principle. I understand not liking D1, but outright blocking any D1-efforts stinks. Especially if both do it. Reeks of arrangement.
MagnumBoy: Nothing.
batsnacks: Don't like his plan which could potentially lead to a town-role reveal, but together with the rest of his posts it seems more like an honest proposel.
Kyanrute: Made two posts, analyzing the claims. Seems reasonable. Not much of a read here.
Retroid: Nothing. Said he wanted to post shortly. Didn't.
El Topo: Wants to kill flux/time, nothing else, but has work on the side.
Miracle: Nothing.
Never Forever: Urges everyone to Vote, because D1-information. Decides to post little to no further information himself. Okay.
CzarTim: Mhhm... plays straight and is eager to poke people, but not for long.
Sophia: Seems okay so far.
Ty4on: Dito. Which makes me a bit wary, though, heh.
Quite a few Nothing-players, which I'm inclined to focus on since I don't necessarily wanna kill the claimants today.
To anyone talking themselves out of D1, because the discussion circles around the claims and not much else's going on: lol, (I believe flux already mentioned this, though) what do you expect? Seems like a really suspicious sentiment in my eyes.
Will place my Vote on...
VOTE: Never Forever
Behaviour of him and Tim seem more like grabbing superficial nuggets to play with rather than making a true effort. Not a locked-in vote by any means, though.
Update on:
Karkador: I mean... I get what he's saying - at least I think so - but his confusion about the night actions is unfortunate. Seems dedicated - ironically like flux in Heist.
Sure, you posted a lot in the late phases of MGS, but Splinter did a whole different kind of spiel with early claiming, creating confusion and ultimately self-voting. You brought in the meta part of this discussion, not me you slob.
I've never said a word about taking you down. I just want everyone to be aware of not falling for you this easily. I feel like standing up and saying, yo don't believe everything they say.
You can't force gut feeling and instincts. What else do you expect? Hey look at this post (...) - oh golly, it's crystal clear, they are scum, let's all vote and pack it up, they slipped on day 1 (that's not how mafia works, especially d1).
I've expressed my hunch and reasons.