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[drohne]

http://www.laweekly.com/ink/04/38/a.php

scroll down to the second article. the one about the bunny isn't relevant. i mean the one about a book tour by the ceo of saatchi & saatchi. it's faintly sinister, for the most part, but one part stood out:

“Lovemarks are super-evolved brands that make deep emotional connections with consumers. It’s about loyalty beyond reason. If you take a brand away, people switch to another. If you take a lovemark away, they go mad.” With images of two motorcycles as his backdrop, the bald, slightly paunchy CEO proclaimed, “Suzuki, just a goddamn motor bike. Harley, lovemark.”

sony, just a goddamn game console. nintendo, lovemark.

that's what nintendo's become: a "lovemark." their fans have just this sort of personal, emotional attachment to the nintendo brand. the fans often identify with nintendo. when people on message boards talk about nintendo's failures, "bad marketing" is generally the first thing that comes up. but how bad is their marketing, really, when it's been so successful in instilling just this "loyalty beyond reason?" the "who are you" ads pretty explicity make this sort of appeal. maybe they're ahead of the curve.

i suppose you could make the case that this loyalty is purely or primarily based on the quality of nintendo's games. and there's some truth to that. but there are aspects of this loyalty that the games don't explain. for example, the way that fans extend their attachment to games like eternal darkness or viewtiful joe, that -- whatever their merits -- do not exhibit any of the traditional qualities of nintendo games. or the way nintendo games are loved as much for their implicit values as their material qualities; nintendo fans often see nintendo games as morally superior. that's not really an emotional bond between gamer and game. it's an emotional bond between consumer and brand. and it's probably the best thing nintendo have going.

it occurs to me that ithe nintendo "lovemark" has been imprinted on me too. i'm sure it isn't normal to think about the psychopathology of nintendo fandom while you're drinking coffee and waiting for a friend to show up. it's a handy thing none of my friends are geeks, or i'd probably talk about nintendo fandom. we're all in love.

 

[fennec fox]

One difference: Harley's audience has expanded over the years.

 

[Dragona Akehi]

Interesting article. In Nintendo's case I think a majority of its "lovemark" has to do with nostaligia. Nintendo revived console gaming in North America, and will forever be attuned to the "good old days" of the NES behemoth. Because of that success and the successes of the SFC/SNES and GB line, people simply equate Nintendo with gaming and quality.

That said, I don't think their influence is waning; the console market might not look so hot yes, but just look at the GameBoy line. It's the most successful system of all time and has been training brand new "lovemark-ees" with Pokemon and other Nintendo goodies.

One has to only look at the insane sales of the Famicom Mini/NES Classics series to realise that Nintendo is very much a beloved company by millions, regardless of their current state in consoles.

 

[border]

I can see what you're saying. "Who are you" encourages people to somehow define themselves in relation to videogame characters, which I guess is weirdly disturbing. By tying a brand to a sense of identity, people get bound pretty tightly to the brand. That's how the print campaign went, though I would say the tv spots were kinda schizophrenic in theme. Some of them (like FF:CC ad) are basically just hokey "Imagine yourself in the game" shit that harkens back to 80's commercials where a barbarian would pop out of the TV and hand the kid a sword. Other tv spots like the Mario 3 Advance thing were just some sort of fantasy or magical reality whimsy.

I don't really know much about how Harley-Davidson ascended to their current plateau, so maybe that would be a decent comparison. I guess you can see the same kind arrogance in HD nuts as you can in some Nintendo nuts, that sense that anything but their favorite is second best.

 

[ge-man]

i suppose you could make the case that this loyalty is purely or primarily based on the quality of nintendo's games. and there's some truth to that. but there are aspects of this loyalty that the games don't explain. for example, the way that fans extend their attachment to games like eternal darkness or viewtiful joe, that -- whatever their merits -- do not exhibit any of the traditional qualities of nintendo games. or the way nintendo games are loved as much for their implicit values as their material qualities; nintendo fans often see nintendo games as morally superior. that's not really an emotional bond between gamer and game. it's an emotional bond between consumer and brand. and it's probably the best thing nintendo have going.

The way I look at it is that the fandom began with the quality but now people have fallen in love with elements of the company itself. Nintendo doesn't have that faceless corporation vibe--it's hard to dislike a company who has one of their top designers triumphantly appearing on stage swinging around replicas of Link's shield and sword. I can't remember seeing anything like that coming from Sony and MS.

Age and timing also plays a role. Nintendo has been in the console game for over two decades. Many young gamers have cut their teeth on a NES or SNES. Sometimes, the very fact that you have been around for a long time cab generate an attachment.

 

[Alcibiades]

The way I look at it is that the fandom began with the quality but now people have fallen in love with elements of the company itself. Nintendo doesn't have that faceless corporation vibe--it's hard to dislike a company who has one of their top designers triumphantly appearing on stage swinging around replicas of Link's shield and sword. I can't remember seeing anything like that coming from Sony and MS.

Age and timing also plays a role. Nintendo has been in the console game for over two decades. Many young gamers have cut their teeth on a NES or SNES. Sometimes, the very fact that you have been around for a long time cab generate an attachment.

what about the Peter Moore tatooe (XBox related), and Ballmer's antics with his employees with onstage fury (corporate related, so I guess it doesn't count)

that said, yeah, I don't of Nintendo as some flatless corporation (even though I know they are out for profit first)...

that said, when Miyamoto did a autograph signing (at a Virgin store I think) I couple of years ago in England, people went mad, when he goes around and the Nintendo fans flock to his location, he's like a modern-day rockstar!!!!

well, I imagine that's how things are, and will hopefully be if I ever meet him/see him in real life...

 

[DDayton]

I think Nintendo's done a better job of presenting themselves as something other than "just a business", so they are easier to identify with. Sony is pretty much a faceless organization, and MS = Bill Gates... Nintendo brings to mind a myriad of characters, games, and personalities (for some of us, at least), so Nintendo has more human appeal because it has a dimension which extends beyond the simply corporate dimension.

Why do you think Disney was so popular? It wasn't seen as "just" a movie studio... it was seen as the home of loved characters, AND (during the 50's and beyond) Walt's place. Walt was a individual people liked, identified with, and though well of... his personality is what kept the Disney brand strong.

This is the advantage that some companies have over others... they are seen as "more" than "just a company". George Lucas did that for Lucasfilm (although the shoddiness of the recent films had dulled his edge a bit), Miyamoto does that for Nintendo.

Then again, Nintendo does seem to have a stronger corporate brand than most other software companies... if you asked a random gamer who made Ratchet and Clank, they'd stare at you. If you asked them who made Super Mario Bros., though...

 

[Alcibiades]

I think Nintendo's done a better job of presenting themselves as something other than "just a business", so they are easier to identify with. Sony is pretty much a faceless organization, and MS = Bill Gates... Nintendo brings to mind a myriad of characters, games, and personalities (for some of us, at least), so Nintendo has more human appeal because it has a dimension which extends beyond the simply corporate dimension.

Why do you think Disney was so popular? It wasn't seen as "just" a movie studio... it was seen as the home of loved characters, AND (during the 50's and beyond) Walt's place. Walt was a individual people liked, identified with, and though well of... his personality is what kept the Disney brand strong.

yeah, look at how people on internet message boards (here and box office ones), swear by Pixar and Finding Nemo and stuff...

They are a fairly new company from the past 10 years, but they have a following because of the charm and color they give their movies/characters...

Dorie, Woody, and Buzz f*cking ROCK!

 

[DDayton]

When did Nintendo start using Miyamoto to promote stuff? I had the impression it was primarily NOA that did that... but when did they start?

 

[drohne]

here's another angle: just as adidas shoes do not really embody the spirit of athletic competition, nintendo games do not really embody wholesome fun or traditional gaming values. what we're responding to is shrewd brand positioning. we're fetishizing commodities, as marx would have it. people seem to be resisting that aspect of the article. our attachment has been manufactured.

 

[junkwaffle]

One difference: Harley's audience has expanded over the years.

I assume that's true, but think of it this way: where would Nintendo be without the 'lovemark?' Although they've proportionately lost market share, in my opinion, they've remained viable, in part, because of its devoted hive.

No doubt, certain products or companies can produce this effect, the Volkswagon Beetle, the Apple Mac, Budweiser. I have to admit, I have a soft spot for Nintendo, too.

They're evil. Interesting concept, though.

 

[ge-man]

I didn't think I was ignoring that. It's quite clear that most of it is by design. They have a chosen a certain image and people have responded to that. That's what I meant by the faceless corporation remark. Some of the "Who are you" marketing campaigin is specifically drawing on this idea.

While I do think there are elements of the company that generate genuine affection, I certainly agree that Nintendo has used their brand position in a manipulative way.

 

[GaimeGuy]

You know you like it.

 

[Alcibiades]

sure they is brand positioning and marketing, but the thing is, you can't really "position" or "market" personalities/influences like Miyamoto and other designers at Nintendo and a certain impact that have given the company...

you can position marketing, but many of the games and characters that are Nintendo's prime properties came out of the designer's heads and not the marketing department...

 

[Kobun Heat]

I love Nintendo with every part of my body (including my pee pee).

 

[DDayton]

Now THERE'S a slogan they haven't tried yet.

 

[Discreet]

Nintendo forever will be the king simply because Nintendo has inspired a whole generation it made in roads by making a viable business off a "kids toy' that evolved into a essential piece of a 'adults" home entertainment unit regardless if its syas xbox or sony on it if it wasnt for Nintendo we might not have any of this thats here now .it has effected music from the early years of hip hop to present its hard 2 sample vg games music when its licensed and garbage at least in the days of old Nintendo did innovate. Even tho some older gamers hate Nintendo because it didnt grow up with them no 1 can deny that Nintendo is a cultural phenomenon and it will always be king regardless of sales and i agree Nintendo is a love mark i will always love Nintendo for what it did for me when i was a kid open my senses to a new world with visuals sound and control, maybe thats y Nintendo was great as a kid u couldnt control anything but u could control a game

WE R The Nintendo Generation

 

[AniHawk]

Very interesting thread (and even more so that no fights have broken out). Thanks for the link, drohne.

 

[GaimeGuy]

Don't jinx it.

 

[john tv]

I love Nintendo with every part of my body (including my pee pee).

I believe this news!

 

[GIR]

It all has too do with the release of endorphins in the brain, when people fall in love it happens, it happens when you eat chocolate too, and there's no reason why it cant happen when you play video games. Just remember back to when you first played Zelda OOT, remember that feeling you got, you sorta feel content and relaxed just thinking back. Zelda to me was very much like a bar of chocolate, I wanted more chocolaty Zelda goodness not because I wasn’t satisfied with the meal just cause it was so damn sweet and tasty

 

[boutrosinit]

I believe this news!

Seconded

 

[Mermandala]

I attribute many secret powers to beards, invisible beards, and of course, the moustache.
in all seriousness, I think it's Mario's creepy moustache. if he ever shaves - GAME OVER!

seriously, just picture it.

 

[disabledHeliocentric]

For a lot of people without that media loop to plug into and to reinforce their identity even a Lovemark can be forsaken. We are in an era of 'mass-produced self-made men', and people look to the TV and media for guidance as to what brand of individual they are and where that brand should go. I think Nintendo can plug into that, and they have. But they have also in some ways lost their connection to todays mass produced individual and the sort of mass culture loop said individual wants to connect with. By losing the connection with this loop Nintendo runs the danger of turning the relationship with the contemporary man-of-mass-culture upon itself, of declining and drawing negative attention rather than praise and loyalty.

Still, For something to be a Lovemark that means there's more to it than just an advertisement. Certainly, there's more to the Harley mystique than an ad. I don't remember any Harley ads. I've seen the real deal around here and there, though, on the street. Harley is a myth, a legend. It lives burrowed in the fantasies of accountants and unassuming middle aged men in quiet exburbs across the Globe. This wasn't implanted by an ad campaign either. There has to be a more direct personal attachment. For me it would be playing all of the prior Metroid, Mario, Zelda games. I'd say the advertising had very little to do with the actual Lovemark. And I'd say my strong feelings for Nintendo games when examined closely and rationally hold up pretty well. But maybe for the casual gamer not at the expense of broader 3rd party support, FF, Gran Turismo, and GTA.

The mass media didn't 'mindjack' me and turn me into a drooling Nintendrone serving some vague spectre of a dominant minority to bolster a totalitarian modernity that unceasingly utilizes people as means to ends without valuing them as ends unto themselves. It just notified me, said hey remember your favorite game Metroid? It's coming back! This should not be used to make blanket denouncements of content, of what mass media distributes, without actually looking at what they are distributing and giving that a good critique as a unique entity and form rather than a tool of some massive totallizing information system serving profit. After all, I dislike Rupert Murdoch but I like the Simpsons. I think things get repeated on TV and the Radio in a way that's almost disturbing unless you're conditioned into accepting it, yet that doesn't have much of anything to do with sitting down playing a game and enjoying it.

 

[dog$]

Nope. I don't believe the equation holds true between Suzuki and Harley-Davidson (ie., both are equally < Ducati ) and it doesn't hold true between Sony and Nintendo for a myriad of reasons, primarily being that Sony's sole product is not videogame material. I understand the intent of the article's (flawed) logic; to me, all it really intends to establish is a word or phrase stronger than brand loyalty.

It all falls apart with this sentence.

If you take a brand away, people switch to another. If you take a lovemark away, they go mad.

If you take H-D away, motorcycle consumers of all types will switch to another brand.
If you take H-D away, only H-D specific fans "go mad".

If you take Nintendo away, videogame consumers of all types will switch to another brand.
If you take Nintendo away, only the Nintendo-specific fans who adamantly refuse to acknowledge the competiton go mad / go away. Given these consequences, this is a hypothetical situation that I actually wish would happen.

Sorry, but I am a fan of video games, not video game companies, and no death of a single entity (company, series, or otherwise) will be the deciding factor of if I pick up a controller ever again.
The concept of never playing videogames ever again if [console manufacturer here] goes out of business (and saying you attribute Nintendo with this so-called "lovemark" means you're filling Nintendo in that blank) should sound ludicrous to all other video game fans. Moreover, it is these type of people that cannot be reasoned with.

 

[Socreges]

that's what nintendo's become: a "lovemark." their fans have just this sort of personal, emotional attachment to the nintendo brand. the fans often identify with nintendo. when people on message boards talk about nintendo's failures, "bad marketing" is generally the first thing that comes up. but how bad is their marketing, really, when it's been so successful in instilling just this "loyalty beyond reason?" the "who are you" ads pretty explicity make this sort of appeal. maybe they're ahead of the curve.

i suppose you could make the case that this loyalty is purely or primarily based on the quality of nintendo's games. and there's some truth to that. but there are aspects of this loyalty that the games don't explain. for example, the way that fans extend their attachment to games like eternal darkness or viewtiful joe, that -- whatever their merits -- do not exhibit any of the traditional qualities of nintendo games. or the way nintendo games are loved as much for their implicit values as their material qualities; nintendo fans often see nintendo games as morally superior. that's not really an emotional bond between gamer and game. it's an emotional bond between consumer and brand. and it's probably the best thing nintendo have going.

I wouldn't attribute these things to marketing (or at most partially), because so much of that is characteristic of fans of every console. Certainly emotional attachment is more affluent with Nintendo fans, but that may have more to do with an embedded and consistent history. In fact, I'm sure that's the case. Nintendo defined videogames for many, many people.

Come to think of it, Sega fans were awfully similar. Some still are. But I guess without much of a core, they've dissipated somewhat.

it occurs to me that ithe nintendo "lovemark" has been imprinted on me too. i'm sure it isn't normal to think about the psychopathology of nintendo fandom while you're drinking coffee and waiting for a friend to show up. it's a handy thing none of my friends are geeks, or i'd probably talk about nintendo fandom. we're all in love.

Don't hold this "lovemark" responsible. That's a whole other issue you've tackled.

 

[disabledHeliocentric]

It all falls apart with this sentence.

Heh. You don't bear the mark. If you did it would make sense.

 

[Baron Aloha]

It all falls apart with this sentence.

If you take H-D away, motorcycle consumers of all types will switch to another brand.
If you take H-D away, only H-D specific fans "go mad".

WRONG!!!!!

For many HD owners, its much more than just another motocycle. Its a lifestyle. Its a status symbol. There are two kinds of motocycle owners. Those who own a HD and those who don't. Once you've owned a HD you will never want another brand. If you take HD away, motorcycle consumers wont switch to another brand. They will just go looking for a HD in the used market (which is FREAKING HUGE for HD).

 

[JasoNsider]

It all falls apart with this sentence:

Sorry, but I am a fan of video games, not video game companies, and no death of a single entity (company, series, or otherwise) will be the deciding factor of if I pick up a controller ever again.

Companies make the games we love.

If Nintendo were to, for whatever reason, drop out of videogames entirely, I could easily see myself not playing games again. This is coming from somebody who plays lots of third party titles. Nintendo games cater to my gaming needs more than any other company.

 

[dog$]

Once you've owned a HD you will never want another brand.

No. Not true.

Companies make the games we love.

Yes. Companies.
Therefore, until all companies stop making video games, there will always be some company making videogames that I and other fans and consumers of videogames will want.
I find it very unfortunate that you cannot say the same.

 

[Baron Aloha]

No. Not true.

Its very true. Just ask anyone who owns one. I'd put money on 90% of the owners saying that.

 

[dog$]

Well then you're already wrong, since it should be 100% for that to be "very true". Not 99.9%

And here's the -0.01%: My uncle, my Dad's friend, and my friend's Dad are all former (and in the first two cases that I have personally seen, multiple) HD owners. Now? Two Indians and a Ducati.

 

[JasoNsider]

Therefore, until all companies stop making video games, there will always be some company making videogames that I and other fans and consumers of videogames will want.
I find it very unfortunate that you cannot say the same.

I find it very unfortunate that you actually want this to happen:

Given these consequences, this is a hypothetical situation that I actually wish would happen.

If Nintendo left the videogame scene, the industry as a whole would be pretty much worthless to me. Sure there would be the odd gem like Ico and Rez here and there, but for the most part it would just be a cold wasteland full of "x-treme" games that are too conscious of their image.

 

[dog$]

If Nintendo left the videogame scene, the industry as a whole would be pretty much ... a cold wasteland full of "x-treme" games that are too conscious of their image.

I have no idea how you can believe this perspective.

Well, OK, maybe if your view of the world consisted of two countries called "USA" and "Them" and your IP only let you connect to here and gamefaqs it could happen.

But any true videogame fan that is knowledgeable of all the games that are available worldwide would never contemplate such an ignorant summary of all non-Nintendo videogame property.

 

[border]

If you take H-D away, motorcycle consumers of all types will switch to another brand.
If you take H-D away, only H-D specific fans "go mad".

Where does he say that ALL consumers are supposed to be fanatical? The point is to make a certain cross-section of customers rabid about your product -- obviously they can't make everyone love it.

 

[JasoNsider]

I have no idea how you can believe this perspective.

Well, OK, maybe if your view of the world consisted of two countries called "USA" and "Them" and your IP only let you connect to here and gamefaqs it could happen.

But any true videogame fan that is knowledgeable of all the games that are available worldwide would never contemplate such an ignorant summary of all non-Nintendo videogame property.

So you're saying I'm not a true videogame fan because I happen to like a particular companies offerings more than any others? Outside of Nintendo (including their close studios like Intelligent Systems and Retro), I can only think of a handful of studios that can even stand up to their game design. You could that I just have really high standards in terms of game playability. Even games like Splinter Cell just don't cut it in terms of game polish.

However, unlike you, I follow people. I like the work that comes from Nintendo's producers, artists, and designers. I like Michel Ancel and his team. I like Konami's Metal Gear Solid team, including Hideo Kojima. I like Denis Dyack and his team over at Silicon Knights. I like the people behind the companies. When I said I like Nintendo, I meant I like the people at Nintendo. When Nintendo and SK split, does that mean I don't like SK any more? No. If Nintendo were to fall out of videogames then I would lose more than half the amount of people that I hold admiration for in the industry.

I don't expect you to understand, but I thought I should clarify my position.

 

[Timbuktu]

did Nintendo have this 'lovemark' thing back in the NES days or is it just since they handed the market to Sony on a silver platter? It's a niche thing, something that adds to your identity like your it's-so-cool-nobody-has heard-of-it band and feeds to your desire to belong at the same time. I've a friend who is a Apple fan, like me, and he told me recently that he wants Apple to stay niche, that the success of the iPod and seeing all those white earplugs everywhere makes him uncomfortable because there are all these people out there with Apple products and not understand what Apple is.

What they call 'lovemark' isn't advertising. The iPod silhouette ads campaign, that's advertising, that's successful brand building, but that doesn't generate brand loyalty.

 

[Baron Aloha]

Well then you're already wrong, since it should be 100% for that to be "very true". Not 99.9%

And here's the -0.01%: My uncle, my Dad's friend, and my friend's Dad are all former (and in the first two cases that I have personally seen, multiple) HD owners. Now? Two Indians and a Ducati.

Any idea what year those Indians are from? How often are they taken out? How old were the Harleys that they replaced? How often were they taken out?

And Ducatis are a totally different kind of bike so he must have just wanted something totally different. That's like replacing an SUV with a Jeep. If he ever buys a traditional bike again it will be a Harley.

And my argument isn't any less true just because 100% of the people don't feel that way. You originally stated that if HD were to go away then consumers would move on to other brands. This simply isn't the case.

 

[dog$]

You originally stated that if HD were to go away then consumers would move on to other brands. This simply isn't the case.

Consumers would move on. HD nuts would not. Please don't quote half of my statements and say it's wrong when the other half is what makes it right.

Any idea what year those Indians are from? How often are they taken out? How old were the Harleys that they replaced? How often were they taken out?

Irrelevant, irrelevant, irrelevant, and irrelevant.

That's like replacing an SUV with a Jeep. If he ever buys a traditional bike again it will be a Harley.

Don't hold your breath. Either way, the point is that the HD was replaced with a non-HD.

Where does he say that ALL consumers are supposed to be fanatical? The point is to make a certain cross-section of customers rabid about your product -- obviously they can't make everyone love it.

He doesn't say all consumers are supposed to be fanatical, and that's why the article in whole is somewhat pointless.

The author is just suggesting making "lovebite" a synonymn for "rabid product loyalty".
Guess what. There's rabid product loyalty for every videogame company. Therefore Nintendo is not on any such "forefront of brand marketing", at least not more so than Sony or Microsoft or any previous or upcoming videogame copmanies.

So you're saying I'm not a true videogame fan because I happen to like a particular companies offerings more than any others?

No I'm saying you're not a true videogame fan because you said this:

If Nintendo left the videogame scene, the industry as a whole would be pretty much worthless to me.

However, unlike you, I follow people.

Try again. The first and last reason I wanted a GC is for Minter's Unity.

If Nintendo were to fall out of videogames then I would lose more than half the amount of people that I hold admiration for in the industry.

Actually, if Nintendo were to fall out of videogames then you would lose the ability to donate your money to said people. They wouldn't die and neither would you. It'd be up to you to, as you say, follow the people and buy any subsequent products they'd make under a non-Nintendo name. Or just admit that you didn't care much about videogames in the first place and keep weeping for their loss.

 

[JasoNsider]

If these people kept making games under a different name then I would still follow them. I'm talking about this "hypothetical situation" that you were referring to, where everything Nintendo related dropped off the face of the planet. Obviously if Nintendo's teams still existed, but under a different name, then I would still play their games.

 

[Baron Aloha]

Irrelevant, irrelevant, irrelevant, and irrelevant.

I'm just curious. Please answer the questions. If the answers are what I suspect then I can assure you that the questions are quite relevant to the conversation at hand. And judging from your refusal to respond, I suspect you too understand the relevance behind them. Why not post your answers and allow a rebuttal? Then we can let other people determine the relevancy of the questions.

 

[dog$]

Fine.

Any idea what year those Indians are from?
Recent. Past 2000.

How often are they taken out?
Weekly, depending on the weather.

How old were the Harleys that they replaced?
Like a decade old at most.

How often were they taken out?
Weekly, depending on the weather.

And actually I'd rather have the topic continue discussing whether Nintendo is "actually on the forefront of brand marketing" instead of the motorbike purchasing and useage habits concerning some people I happen to know.

 

[border]

He doesn't say all consumers are supposed to be fanatical, and that's why the article in whole is somewhat pointless.

So it's pointless because he realizes that you can't please all of the people all of the time? Huh?

The phenomenon he points out is hardly new, but he's just putting a finger on it, giving it a particular buzzword, and analyzing how other companies have wedged themselves into such an enviable position.

 

[ge-man]

did Nintendo have this 'lovemark' thing back in the NES days or is it just since they handed the market to Sony on a silver platter? It's a niche thing, something that adds to your identity like your it's-so-cool-nobody-has heard-of-it band and feeds to your desire to belong at the same time. I've a friend who is a Apple fan, like me, and he told me recently that he wants Apple to stay niche, that the success of the iPod and seeing all those white earplugs everywhere makes him uncomfortable because there are all these people out there with Apple products and not understand what Apple is.

What they call 'lovemark' isn't advertising. The iPod silhouette ads campaign, that's advertising, that's successful brand building, but that doesn't generate brand loyalty.

You first question is an interesting one. I think you can easily argue that the Nintendo brand ascended to lovemark status with Sony's dominance. But's that's only part of the equation. The N64 had some incredible titles during its life. On top of that, you can also factor in the expansion of the internet during the 90's, which allowed fans of all types to band together. Lastly, the people who make the software such as Miyamoto became more visible during this time, moving the company away from being a formless entity. All of these elements helped to solidify the Nintendo community. Like you suggest in your post, the niche can be hip and I think this is where Nintendo has thrived as Sony has truly become mainstream.

 

[dog$]

The phenomenon he points out is hardly new, but he's just putting a finger on it, giving it a particular buzzword, and analyzing how other companies have wedged themselves into such an enviable position.

Right.
So my argument is that Nintendo has done nothing more than any other given videogame company to wedge themselves into such an enviable position, due to the fact that all non-Nintendo companies have their own rabid fan base.

 

[Baron Aloha]

Fine.

Any idea what year those Indians are from?
Recent. Past 2000.

So they aren't orignal then? I say that because manufacturing for the orignals ceased in 1953.

Manufacturing of the Scout model of Indian motorcycles resumed in 1999. The prodcution of the Spirit and Chief models resumed shortly after that. These bikes were made using off-the-shelf parts that were heavily based on Harley Davidson designs. The company went bankrupt again in 2003. So basically your uncle or whoever replaced their Harley with a less expensive Harley knock-off. So yeah, I'd say those questions were relevant.

 

[border]

all non-Nintendo companies have their own rabid fan base.

Acclaim has the same type of fan base? Eidos has the same type of fan base? I don't know many people who would be devastated at the loss of those players.

The current Nintendo console owners turn their nose up at almost anything that isn't made by Nintendo or an exclusive to a Nintendo console (thus making it somehow pro-Nintendo). That sort of loyalty is certainly not observed on the Sony and MS platforms, where neutral third party multiplatform releases tend to fare a bit better. There's probably nobody that would argue that Sony and MS always make the best videogames fused with some indelible magic blah blah blah. There are people who look forward to games just because it has the Nintendo label on it......but nobody is really that excited when Sony or MS is doing the publishing.

 

[dog$]

So yeah, I'd say those questions were relevant.

Again, I don't see why. Whether with a Suzuki, Ducati, Honda, Indian, Indian-knock off, or a piece of shit dirt bike, the HD owners replaced their HDs with non-HD bikes. Period.

The current Nintendo console owners turn their nose up at almost anything that isn't made by Nintendo or an exclusive to a Nintendo console (thus making it somehow pro-Nintendo). That sort of loyalty is certainly not observed on the Sony and MS platforms

Actually, wasn't one of Miguel's recent threads asking about how people "stayed true" or whatever and bought PS2 Madden 05?
The loyalty is pretty much there, I think. It seems like you're seeing the loyalty only where you want to see it. Example:

There are people who look forward to games just because it has the Nintendo label on it......but nobody is really that excited when Sony or MS is doing the publishing.

I donno about you, but I'd be all shades of excited if Sony would announce another Otostaz or Fantavision. Not you, eh? Well, there you go.

 

[speedpop]

I am a Nintendo fan. I also play other games that aren't on Nintendo consoles. But I would be lying to you by saying that 50% of my gaming collection isn't part of Nintendo's development companies.

I can see the point in dog$'s original quote whereby he stated that he plays videogames for the games, not the companies. Yeah I use that perception, because if I didn't then I wouldn't have played Metroid Prime right? However.. once I do find a developer that is adequate to my needs, I will stick by them. It just so happens that Nintendo's EAD is a part of this group and will always be till their quality in gaming slides down the avalanche.

In which case.. I blame this "lovemark" syndrome on it. If Nintendo were taken out of the gaming industry, it might not cause such a huge splash in terms of mainstream gamers. However it would be one of the biggest disasters that the gaming industry has seen as a whole. Not only did Nintendo resurrect a dying industry that was on it's last legs in the US but they've also consistently pumped out great and fun titles year by year. I know that I would perhaps stop playing games as a whole if Nintendo were to go bust - simply because of the knowledge that I will never be able to play another new Zelda or Mario title, titles that I will always look forward to within a 4-5 year console life span.

 

[ge-man]

I donno about you, but I'd be all shades of excited if Sony would announce another Otostaz or Fantavision. Not you, eh? Well, there you go.

I don't think they are one the same level though. Look at Geist for example. The ideas are interesting, but you would be foolish to say that game is anything but average looking at best. Yet Nintendo's involvement has inspired hope in a few. I constantly see arguments that suggest that Geist might even pull a Metroid Prime. That's the "lovemark" at work.