LTTP - Avatar: The Last Airbender

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People aren't talking so much about the flashiness of the fights, but about the distinctive bending styles that were very prominent in TLA and more or less disappeared in Korra.

I wish it was possible to have a thread about TLA that didn't turn into a debate/comparison exercise between it and Korra. #PartOfTheProblem
 
As Kotetsu534 said, it wasn't really about the quality of the fights (which were great, as I said, especially in the animation department) but what moves they actually used. In TLA every element had its own distinct movements while Korra almost merged them into a uniform style. Again, S3 and S4 brought some of that back, which is one of the many reasons why I enjoyed them more than S1 and S2 but I still felt it was less pronounced than in TLA. It's just personal preference.

People aren't talking so much about the flashiness of the fights, but about the distinctive bending styles that were very prominent in TLA and more or less disappeared in Korra.

I wish it was possible to have a thread about TLA that didn't turn into a debate/comparison exercise between it and Korra. #PartOfTheProblem

The world of Korra is one of breaking down the barriers, it's a time of great innovation and sharing between the nations. Republic City itself is a melting pot specifically for that purpose, to help keep lines of communication open and prevent the kind of tribalism that led to the hundred year war.

Much like how MMA in real life has evolved to a homogenization of various Martial Arts, Pro bending, and Bending in general is taking a similar route. You still see that Earth Bending primarily uses more strong motions, Air Bending uses misdirection and sweeping motions, but at it's core the disciplines are all being influenced by one another.

This is something that makes sense in the time frame of Korra, which takes place 75+ years after TLA ends. In much the same way that we see the technological boom (brought about principally by the fire nation sharing its innovations from the war) leading to the standardization of things like the AsatoMobiles and whatnot, Bending has been learning and sharing from one another for decades.

In general though, a broader change that thing Korra tried to do, and succeeded at in my opinion, was to spend less time focusing on the size of a fireball and more time focusing on the technique and complexity of the fight itself, while doing a better job at showing what said smaller fireball would do.

Case and point

Another thing that Korra does really well is that it really fleshes out sub bending disciplines much better than TLA did. Metal Bending, Magma Bending, Combustion Bending, Blood Bending, they're all either new and wonderfully realized (see Su versus Kuvira as a small example for Metal Bending) or returning disciplines that are pushed ever so further than before.
 
What the hell? The bending for Season 3 and Season 4 is easily up there with ATLA hell the final fight in Season 3 is basically Aang vs Ozai 2.0.

As Kotetsu534 said, it wasn't really about the quality of the fights (which were great, as I said, especially in the animation department) but what moves they actually used. In TLA every element had its own distinct movements while Korra almost merged them into a uniform style. Again, S3 and S4 brought some of that back, which is one of the many reasons why I enjoyed them more than S1 and S2 but I still felt it was less pronounced than in TLA. It's just personal preference.
 
I'm LTTP with this show too, and it really is exceptional. It started off as just good, but toward the end of series 1 and into series 2 it's developed into greatness. I like that the character design is effective without relying on boring recognisable tropes. I mean, look at Toph: 'blind little girl' is hardly the stereotype for a tough, independent character, but everything about her appearance, attitude, and movement perfectly illustrates who she is.

Oh, and Iroh is the fucking greatest. I just watched Tales of Ba Sing Se yesterday and... and...

QKbckM8.gif
Ha it's shocking just how effective that episode is
 
It's really discouraging to see this thread devolve into "TLOK is garbage" discussion.

I'd rather not taint Altazor's thread with all this negativity.
 
So... last night I watched "Appa's Lost Days" before I went to bed.

Kudos, ATLA crew, for making an episode devoted to a creature unable to speak and somehow infusing it with tension, suspense and heartfelt emotion. In a way, Momo's tale from the last episode was a sort of palate cleanser, a taste of things to come - a moving story about the journeys of an animal longing to return to its friends. So it's fitting that Momo's tale closed last episode.

And Appa's journey was definitely a thing to behold. He was, in fact, in Ba Sing Se - but how he got there was absolutely different to how I envisioned it. And for that, I'm absolutely grateful. From how he got captured by the Tusken Raiders (lol) and then sold to that fucking circus (Ty Lee's previous place of employment!), I was completely gripped. Thankfully he made a new sort-of friend in that horrible place.

While the entire episode is stellar, I have three favorite moments. In chronological order...
-Appa and Aang's shared dream of their first encounter. This moment #rekt me, and I don't even have any pets!
-Suki and the Kyoshi warriors vs. the Dangerous Ladies/Ozai's Angels. I MUST KNOW HOW THAT FIGHT ENDED. I MUST.
-Appa's meeting with the Guru at the Air Temple. That was quite surprising and a bit of a plot twist: he was expecting Appa and/or Aang (if I'm not mistaken), so I'm sure he has some important role to play later.

Then Appa got to Ba Sing Se and got captured by the fucking Dai Li. CURSES!
 
Bit late on this, but Tales of Ba Sing Se is one of the few episodes of television that make me cry every time. Tale of Iroh, man...
 
More fleshed-out impressions of "Lake Laogai":

-Man, this show went dark in this episode. The first scene was definitely not a harbinger of the tone the episode would have by the end. That being said, I think I share Sokka's drawing abilities, lol
-Toph's rebellious attitude is a joy to watch. It makes sense that a privileged member of society with overprotective parents would despise a city with a rigid, almost caste-like structure (and, of course, a fake peace enforced with über shady methods).
-Regarding that said peace: downright horrific methods. Orwellian. This aired on Nickelodeon (!!!!) back then and I read that this particular episode was a bit too much for the network executives, the ATLA crew had to tone it down a bit.
-I never cared THAT much for Jet previously, but he was cool. Somehow this episode made me care for him. "He's lying"... :(
-Zuko... oh god, FINALLY. It's telling that Iroh, the world's current most patient and kind man, finally lashes out at his nephew's stubbornness and obsession. They have this once-in-a-lifetime chance to begin again and Zuko refuses to accept it because of this supposed "destiny" of regaining his (lost) honor by capturing the Avatar. A fool's errand. Something that will absolutely consume him (and Iroh) by the end. Thankfully he did the right thing in the end. I hope this means he's finally ready to turn the page.
-Again: APPA! <3
-Green fire looks cool.
-The Earth King has invited you to Lake Laogai...
 
"ha ha, I made a Star Wars reference".

Well I just finished S2 like an hour ago and goddammit, if it isn't the closest thing to The Empire Strikes Back I've seen without being a ripoff. And this aired on Nickelodeon. Jeez.

Downer ending much? I loved loved loved loved it, though. It depressed me to no end, but loved it nonetheless. Fucking ESB, man.
 
I know. I mean, I (somewhat) get why he did that. He just can't let go. He's a conflicted young man with a shitload of traumas and just has been slowly learning how to actually deal with them... but that change isn't something fast and drastic. It takes time. So, in a way, Zuko's typical heel-face turn was a bit obvious (and this was lampshaded by the writers during the past few episodes) so this avoidance/subversion actually makes for a more compelling character than "previous villain is now totes BFF with the hero".

On the other hand, it's such a fucking stab in the back. Ugh.
 
It was rough to watch. Like, especially with Iroh. You see his past, his loss, and how he imprints Zuko as his own, and yet despite all of that, you would think Zuko had finally taken a breather and realized how far he had come. Not only as an individual, but in his journey from finding the Avatar to Ba Sing Se. He helped his Uncle run a tea shop, and they had great things going for him.

But either way, it really made that finale for me. This is the way to develop a compelling character.
 
Trying to avoid future Zuko spoilers, but the way I feel, the reason Zuko takes the chance is that he hasn't realised how far he's come. He still feels weak, he still feels useless, he hasn't adjusted his mindset to realise the path that was laid out before him when young is not the only path he has to take, despite Iroh's best efforts.

Sins of the father and all that. (Though in this case the father is not only a prime sinner but also continuing to sin, and also an asshole, so there's that)
 
Trying to avoid future Zuko spoilers, but the way I feel, the reason Zuko takes the chance is that he hasn't realised how far he's come. He still feels weak, he still feels useless, he hasn't adjusted his mindset to realise the path that was laid out before him when young is not the only path he has to take, despite Iroh's best efforts.

Sins of the father and all that. (Though in this case the father is not only a prime sinner but also continuing to sin, and also an asshole, so there's that)

Definitely. He's still a 16 year old who's got severe problems in his self-esteem and in his relationship to the rest of his family. Ultimately, he didn't think things through which still makes me hang my head in sadness.
 
It was rough to watch. Like, especially with Iroh. You see his past, his loss, and how he imprints Zuko as his own, and yet despite all of that, you would think Zuko had finally taken a breather and realized how far he had come. Not only as an individual, but in his journey from finding the Avatar to Ba Sing Se. He helped his Uncle run a tea shop, and they had great things going for him.

But either way, it really made that finale for me. This is the way to develop a compelling character.

Trying to avoid future Zuko spoilers, but the way I feel, the reason Zuko takes the chance is that he hasn't realised how far he's come. He still feels weak, he still feels useless, he hasn't adjusted his mindset to realise the path that was laid out before him when young is not the only path he has to take, despite Iroh's best efforts.

Sins of the father and all that. (Though in this case the father is not only a prime sinner but also continuing to sin, and also an asshole, so there's that)

exactly. He still feels chained to a destiny that was forced upon him. I can only hope he realizes in the future that sometimes you have to be careful what you wish for.
 
A great show that unfortunately must rely on various Deus Ex Machina to resolve its story.

"Aang won't kill a person," hey, no worries, we got this ancient turtle island thing that'd help with that!

"Aang is overpowered by the Fire Lord," hey, no worries, an accidental rock-stab would greatly increase his power all of a sudden!
 
A great show that unfortunately must rely on various Deus Ex Machina to resolve its story.

"Aang won't kill a person," hey, no worries, we got this ancient turtle island thing that'd help with that!

"Aang is overpowered by the Fire Lord," hey, no worries, an accidental rock-stab would greatly increase his power all of a sudden!

Dude, hide your spoilers
 
You might wanna spoil that, Laughing Banana. OP only just finished watching Book Two.

Anyway, the ESB comparison is an obvious one (and you can see more Star Wars parallels throughout the series), but I agree that it's not a ripoff and more simply the application of basic rules of storytelling, which Lucas himself famously tried to distill and then apply in his writing. The writers on ATLA made this shit look easy, but it really isn't, and the way they pulled off the entire three-season arc (even with some missteps) is nothing short of amazing.
 
Book Three was polarizing when it first aired, but it's grown on me a lot over the years. Hope you enjoy it. :)
 
Book Three was polarizing when it first aired, but it's grown on me a lot over the years. Hope you enjoy it. :)

Was it really? I watched the entire series a few years after it aired and loved season three. I thought the series actually got better as it went along.
 
Book Three was polarizing when it first aired, but it's grown on me a lot over the years. Hope you enjoy it. :)

I think going from Season 2's ending to early Season 3 definitely has a bit of a dropoff. I don't think any of those episodes were bad, but... man Season 2 was NUTS. It sure as hell picked up though.
 
Was it really? I watched the entire series a few years after it aired and loved season three. I thought the series actually got better as it went along.

Fake edit: this turned into a longer explanation than I intended, but I'm gonna spoiler tag it to be safe.

It was largely an extension of something that started during season 2: a certain segment of the fandom became incredibly disillusioned with any episode that didn't push the main plot forward, writing them off as filler. Even really good episodes like The Tales of Ba Sing Se provoked some controversy because they were perceived as delaying the resolution of ongoing storylines, like the question of Appa's fate. But Book 2 ended on a run of highly interconnected episodes, and people were expecting more of this with Book 3. But instead the pace screeched to a near halt after the premiere episode and we went back to something more like Book 1's episodic style. Now in retrospect, I really love a lot of the first half of Book 3 episodes. But at the time, people were really impatient to get to the invasion, and had less interest in more lighthearted episodes in particular.

The Beach in particular was really controversial, largely because the fandom was divided into competing camps over the issue of characters and shipping. Honestly, ATLA gave Harry Potter a run for its money for intensity and longevity of its shipping wars. Kataang and Zutara were the main ships, and the creators of the show had become aware of the shipping wars at some point during Book 2, so they did a lot of teasing about this during Book 3, which contributed to the crying foul after the end of the show.

A lot of this stuff is probably less noticeable when marathoning the entire show, but we had a lot of time to mull over all these little things because of the way the show aired. During the first two seasons, there would often be 2-3 weeks between episodes, and during the summer of 2006 this became more like 2-3 months. But there was a nine month gap between the end of Book 2 and the start of Book 3. Then, after the first 11 episodes, the show went off the air with almost no explanation, and stayed off for the next seven months, until they aired the final 10 episodes in the space of a week (although a couple had leaked online in the interval). This was obviously outside of the control of the creators of the show (I think it was somehow related to the writer's strike, but the timing might have been a coincidence), but a lot of fans didn't take it all that well.

Then of course the finale was controversial, as Laughing Banana alluded to. I don't recall the rock element being complained about as much then as it sometimes is now, but a lot of people (myself included, at the time) thought that the show pulled a huge cop out by not having Aang kill Ozai, or at least in the manner in which they did. I do still wish that they'd done something a little less out-of-the-blue than the lion turtle, and no, I don't think having a picture of a lion turtle in The Library counts as foreshadowing. But I know a lot of people disagreed at the time and loved the finale unreservedly, and many (probably even more) still do.

But I gotta stress that my perspective on Book 3 has really changed over time, probably in part because I've grown up a lot since that time (I was 13 then), and I think it has a lot of the best individual episodes of the show, although I don't think it comes together quite as well as Book 2 does. I think this is true for a lot of fans, because rewatching the show marathon-style makes a lot of the pacing issues moot, and helps highlight the strengths of the season. And I think most people moved on from the shipping wars. But I have encountered some people who still carry a grudge against Book 3 on ATLA fan forums. Which is kinda ironic, but that's a phenomenon you see in a lot of fandoms. :P

I think going from Season 2's ending to early Season 3 definitely has a bit of a dropoff. I don't think any of those episodes were bad, but... man Season 2 was NUTS. It sure as hell picked up though.

It's definitely a stylistic shift. Book 2 is my favorite, but early Book 3 has some real gems. Second half of Book 3 is stronger though. I wouldn't apply the term filler to very much of it though; there's some really important character stuff throughout the season.
 
There's only a few minutes of it or so in most episodes. The two I'm talking about are
The Beach
and
The Avatar and the Firelord
where the majority of it happens.

Ehh not really.
There's a lot of exploring Zuko's place in the world now that he has what he wants, his relationship with his father, what Azula knows. It's not all exposition but it's all pretty key to his story.
 
Started Book 3 last night, watched "The Awakening". I thought that was a great season opener, to be honest - felt like the necessary (factual and emotional) aftermath to the events of the Book 2 finale. First things first: AANG WITH HAIR?! WHAT IS THIS SORCERY?!

Zuko's inner torment due to his decision still rages on. Now that he finally got what he wanted (to return to his homeland a hero, Ozai's recognition and his honor restored) he doesn't seem too happy - he knows he paid a high cost for that. Plus, there's Azula...

She is a complete monster. Seriously, what a manipulative witch... and is my mind fucked or her bedroom scene with Zuko seemed oddly sensual? Not that she's actually interested in incest, more like she's subtly manipulating/threatening her teenage brother. And now she has a scapegoat in case Aang reappears (and he, sooner or later, will), so Zuko will lose everything he thought he regained and Azula will stay on top. I think I'd admire her if she wasn't so completely evil.

Also - parallels! The obvious one is Aang's "I HAVE TO REGAIN MY HONOR" spiel, something that ties him to Zuko. There's also Sokka/Katara with Hokudo and Zuko with Ozai: Hokudo seems to love and value his children without caring about their accomplishments/honors, while Ozai -being the absolute asshole that he is- only cares about Zuko in regards of what he actually (apparently) ended up doing. Once the Avatar reappears, I'm afraid Zuko will lose the "love"/"respect" from his father forever.

Random thoughts:
-Nice to see the remnants of the Freedom Fighters!
-Toph still slays <3
-I can see why Aang feels so damn frustrated. He's a kid that has the weight of the world on his shoulders - that'd be too much pressure even for a grownup. Plus Book 2 was all about failures and setbacks: he lost Appa, failed to master the Avatar State and complete his training, got (pretty much?) killed, the Earth Kingdom fell, and didn't even manage to tell Katara how he actually felt. Of course he feels he failed everybody and goes full Batman, but without a clear plan. Thankfully he gets to see the error of his ways... sometimes we just can't do everything on our own, and there's no shame in that.
-I just hope Uncle Iroh's okay :(
 
SORRY FOR THE DOUBLE POST

Watched both "The Headband" and "The Painted Lady" today. I can totally see why this episode seemed to get criticism when it first aired - "I waited months for THIS?"

On the other hand, I'm Netflixing it, so that kind of expectations do not apply to my case, or at least, not to the extent of those who actually waited months for Book 3. And, let's face it, Book 2 ended on such a dark note you had to expect either: A) Book 3 would get relentlessly dark, continuing the tone from the second half of Book 2, or B) Book 3 would have SOME sort of lighter tone to it before the eventual conclusion, like some calm-before-the-storm type of deal. So far, it's clearly more of the latter.

I'm not exactly complaining though. "The Headband" was a pretty fun episode without being particularly tense (and that's probably the first "fun" episode since early S2). Aang becoming a Fire Nation schoolboy gave us hilarious scenes (like his use of outdated slang) and the whole payoff of the episode was excellent. A bit of political commentary in the form of dancing, with a damn nice -for my shipping heart- Katara/Aang scene. The Spartacus homage was touching and effective.

Zuko's story was great, too. Man, that boy is conflicted. And I totally get why (in-universe) Uncle Iroh gives him the silent treatment - the pain cuts too deep. You lose your son in a damn war and then you lose your son-figure to an unhealthy obsession that drove him to backstab you... that's one hell of a gutpunch for Good Ol' Uncle Iroh.
And just when I think Zuko's getting to see how unfulfilling this whole thing is, the ATLA writers shatter my expectations and give us that ending. Oh FFS Zuko, stop making things WORSE, you fucking dumbass.

On the other hand, "The Painted Lady" is clearly the weakest episode since... "Avatar Day", maybe? It's mostly a "Katara doing nice things for others because that's what she does" episode and it succeeds mostly on showing us that not every Fire Nation town is filled to the brim wtih evil bastards. Plus Dock/Xu/Bushi's split personalities were funny. That's... probably all there is to it.
 
The Awakening continues the trend of great season openers. It deals with the turmoil caused by the events of season 2's finale very well, while also carving out a new atmosphere that will continue for a good part of season 3. Also, Aang with hair will never not look weird.

The Headband and The Painted Lady serve their purpose; showing the more human side of a nation that up to this point just played the role of the enemy. Headband handles it with more goofiness, and having Painted Lady (which gets more preachy) right afterward left a bad taste in some people's mouths. Nothing that bad, but The Painted Lady definitely fills the quota of "boring episode about a boring town" for the season.

Next up: a not-quite-filler episode, a polarizing episode, and an amazing episode.
 
yeah, that's the thing... the two episodes are kinda similar in what they're trying to show ("not everybody in the Fire Nation is evil, guys!") but "The Headband" succeeds mostly because it's much more carefree and humorous. "The Painted Lady" feels a bit too ponderous, self-serious and -like you said- preachy. It kinda manages to feel redundant. Plus there's no Zuko b-plot, so it feels like stalling.
 
I really like how well they portrayed the change of atmosphere in Season 3. It is refreshing but does feel much slower.

Really enjoying your thoughts on the series!
 
I feel like The Painted Lady gets kind of a bad rap. It's a pretty by-the-numbers, "new town problem of the week" kinda deal, but at the same time, it gave Katara something none of the other heroes have had besides Aang - a connection to the spirits.
 
Binge-watching season 3. Just finished "The Puppetmaster".

Dayum, son. The last part of the episode was quite disturbing and the ending was really bleak. Bloodbending... *shudders*

It's a quite effective episode, though. It succeeds in showing why Hama felt the way she did, even though bloodbending's morally repugnant. A woman oppressed brutally oppressed by the FN that had to escape their captors somehow - she just ended up becoming a monster in the process. The effects of unjust incarceration and torture are harrowing.

I'll have to write something later about "The Avatar and the Firelord", too. That one was just amazing, and the plot twist by the end made me feel all giddy.
 
Binge-watching season 3. Just finished "The Puppetmaster".

Dayum, son. The last part of the episode was quite disturbing and the ending was really bleak. Bloodbending... *shudders*

It's a quite effective episode, though. It succeeds in showing why Hama felt the way she did, even though bloodbending's morally repugnant. A woman oppressed brutally oppressed by the FN that had to escape their captors somehow - she just ended up becoming a monster in the process. The effects of unjust incarceration and torture are harrowing.

I'll have to write something later about "The Avatar and the Firelord", too. That one was just amazing, and the plot twist by the end made me feel all giddy.

I must know, what did you think of The Beach episode? and yeah Bloodbending is some dark stuff. They did a great job in the sound effects for it. Feels uneasy just hearing it in use.
 
I must know, what did you think of The Beach episode?

I actually don't know.

It was awkward as hell for me... then again, it was meant to be awkward. It's about these teenagers that are completely unable to function normally in a social context with their peers... well, maybe except Ty Lee, probably the most "normal" of them all. But Zuko? Eternal inner conflict and ANGST. Mai? Absolutely repressed since childhood and unable to show emotions
at least until Zuko manages to do it
. Azula? A master manipulator sociopath that only cares about destruction and puppeteering.

It does lead to some hilarious scenes, though. Azula trying to flirt with the jock was incredible. So was the volleyball match.

So... I dunno. I've thought about it time and time again and I can't make up my mind. The ending shot was weird too... it was like a subversion of the "we're all best buddies now" ending shot of cheesy coming-of-age movies or whatever. So, there. I'm completely undecided.
 
After you finish the mid-finale I'd like to hear more comprehensive thoughts on Azula if you have any. She's probably the second-most interesting character to me in the entire show.
 
After you finish the mid-finale I'd like to hear more comprehensive thoughts on Azula if you have any. She's probably the second-most interesting character to me in the entire show.

Azula is one of those characters who had way more development than she would/should, considering the type of show she's in.

Pleasant surprise.
 
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