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[OmegaDL50]

There are many games on the canon that Iga didn't even touch.

That is why I dislike the timeline. I don't mind the cohesiveness of games fitting into a continuity, however I don't like it when it's narrowed down to few games being more "official" or "spotlighted", It's a complete lack of respect and disservice to every producer as well the many individuals who are employed by Konami that worked on Castlevania games which people enjoyed, and one man decides upon himself to not include those peoples efforts in the grand scope of what is and what is not a "true" game in the series.

I enjoy the games IGA produced and some of them being high on my list as some of my favorite games in the series, but I feel it was rather pretentious of him to cherry pick which ever games of his choosing in the series and claim them as "official" when he was never even part of the staff of the earliest of Castlevania titles.

There was a time when people didn't care about this timeline and simply enjoyed the games because they were Castlevania games with it's own style of gameplay, atmosphere, and returning stables in terms of weapons and enemies, and of course the memorable music that was carried from title to title (Shoutout to Bloody Tears and Vampire Killer)

Case in point Circle of the Moon isn't part of this timeline but doesn't prevent it from being one of the best games in the series. The timeline does nothing to ensure the game from being a good Castlevania game, It only makes it into a fit into a set continuity. Said continuity does not ensure the quality of the game itself from a gameplay perspective as well as keeping the tradition of the series in what is representative of a Castlevania title.

Unfortunately, because of Konami make their console gaming divisions to be of an absolutely minimum priority, we'll probably not see another game from them in this sort of capacity.

Thankfully there are many other devs with some of their games filling in the blank somewhat. Odallus the Dark Call, Momodora, and excellent fan projects like Castlevania: The Lecarde Chronicles 2.

If we really consider the Iga's timeline as a standard to play Castlevania games from a canonical standpoint then Judgement should be listed in the OP, and there is a very, very good reason why it's not even in consideration.

 

[13ruce]

Order of Essclesia.
Truly is one of the best if not the best Castlevania, it's so damn good. It blends classic like stage design with Metroidvania design and the story is pretty neat and dat twist.

Also yup that village + the sidequest it's awesome.

 

[D.Lo]

IIRC there was a PSP Castlevania release that had a game previously only in JP, and it had a SOTN port as unlockable. Anyone remember what it was and if it's worth getting? I did a DS CV marathon early in the year and I want to continue.

It's a B-grade 3D remake with poorly emulated versions of Rondo and SoTN, the latter of which also has some crap additions. Both are blurry and have sound issues, even when using 'original' resolution. The worst way to play any of the Dracula X series really, outside of the busted Saturn port. The PSN SoTN available on the PSP is basically perfect, which makes the poor emulation even more ridiculous.

That is why I dislike the timeline. I don't mind the cohesiveness of games fitting into a continuity, however I don't like it when it's narrowed down to few games being more "official" or "spotlighted", It's a complete lack of respect and disservice to every producer as well the many individuals who are employed by Konami that worked on Castlevania games which people enjoyed, and one man decides upon himself to not include those peoples efforts in the grand scope of what is and what is not a "true" game in the series.

I enjoy the games IGA produced and some of them being high on my list as some of my favorite games in the series, but I feel it was rather pretentious of him to cherry pick which ever games of his choosing in the series and claim them as "official" when he was never even part of the staff of the earliest of Castlevania titles.

There was a time when people didn't care about this timeline and simply enjoyed the games because they were Castlevania games with it's own style of gameplay, atmosphere, and returning stables in terms of weapons and enemies, and of course the memorable music that was carried from title to title (Shoutout to Bloody Tears and Vampire Killer)

Case in point Circle of the Moon isn't part of this timeline but doesn't prevent it from being one of the best games in the series. The timeline does nothing to ensure the game from being a good Castlevania game, It only makes it into a fit into a set continuity. Said continuity does not ensure the quality of the game itself from a gameplay perspective as well as keeping the tradition of the series in what is representative of a Castlevania title.

Unfortunately, because of Konami make their console gaming divisions to be of an absolutely minimum priority, we'll probably not see another game from them in this sort of capacity.

Thankfully there are many other devs with some of their games filling in the blank somewhat. Odallus the Dark Call, Momodora, and excellent fan projects like Castlevania: The Lecarde Chronicles 2.

If we really consider the Iga's timeline as a standard to play Castlevania games from a canonical standpoint then Judgement should be listed in the OP, and there is a very, very good reason why it's not even in consideration.

Totally agree. Igarashi has made some good games (Aria, Ecclesia) and some shit ones (both his flat corridor 3D turds, HoD). But his timeline bullshit was petty and stupid. And this thread is basically proof as to how it can have a negative effect, here is someone rejecting great games like CoTM and CV64 simply because the guy who declared himself Lord of CV said to.

What is most bizarre is that the most busted CV game, timeline wise, New Generation/Bloodlines, was maintained in the timeline. It's the game that stupidly tries to tie Castlevania (essentially the Universal Monster movie universe Drac) to Bram Stoker's novel about a supernatural sexual predator. While simultaneously requiring twisting logic to fit into either's world (oh so Quincy Morris had an unmentioned son? And no Belmonts?)

 

[Badlucktroll]

Symphony of the night is one of my favorite games of all time. If i fire it up on my Vita or Xbox One i lose 5 hours in my day.

 

[Godcannon]

Thanks CG.

I've beaten dracula X on snes, but I've heard it's missing a lot from rondo. Does the PSP Dracula X chronicles represent the original well?

I have also gotten the first ending for symphony, but not the true ending. Is there more story worth exploring in the upside down castle?

I may finish Circle of the moon first becaise it's really fun, but I'm looking forward to Aria.

I'm really into the castlevania lore, but it is so damn cryptic and hard to follow by playing the games hah. But if they are in the games your damn right I'll beat and explore them to get it all.

One of my favorite things about Lords of Shadow(minus 2) was how good the storytelling was. Sounds crazy, but LOS:Mirror of Fate had one of my favorite game storylines of all time. Would have been awesome if they ended it well with 2, but whatevs.

Im either missing secret stuff in the canon games, or they just leave a lot to be desired storywise.

Edit: hell, If all else fails, I'll just play them for the fun factor, then end up just reading about what's going on online. However if the story is accessible through the games, then I'd prefer that route obviously.

 

[Rookhelm]

I started playing Dracula X recently, and maybe I suck, but good lord are the bosses hard.

The first one (

Spoiler

3 headed dog/cat thing

), I figured out the pattern, and was able to beat it, but the second one (

Spoiler

swarm of bats/giant bat

) wrecks me and I don't know what I'm doing wrong.

 

[Fiendcode]

So are Legends, COTM and 64/LOD the only non-canon classic games? Poor KCEK, what did Iga have against them?

 

[Aesnath]

Agreements:

Bloodlines is secretly great
CVII isn't as bad as people say; but you do need a guide or a better translation
Rondo (PC engine/PSP) is probably the best-realized traditional CV

Disagreements:

Lament of Innocence sucked (I really disliked it; less interesting god of war clone; I preferred the rygar remake for GOW clones and even CV64 for 3D CV).

CV1 is probably harder than CVIII, at least near the end of the game.

Surprises

CV adventure is cannon??!!

 

[D.Lo]

So are Legends, COTM and 64/LOD the only non-canon classic games? Poor KCEK, what did Iga have against them?

I assume it was because they were a 'competing' studio within Konami. They made all the original games in the series from late 1997 through 2001, while the only thing Igarashi did in that time was essentially a budget port of the 1993 X68K game to PS1, of all systems, despite the fact the PS2 had been out over a year at that point. Then when Harmony of Dissonance was compared unfavourably with Circle of the Moon, maybe he got jealous.

Of course there's also the famous quote about how a weak woman could not be the start of the Belmont clan. Which he replaced with a story about a dead girlfriend whip...

 

[Ahasverus]

Iga was the one who made it into a Metroidvania when he came on board, setting the main pattern for the rest of the series.

he convinced people on that, but there are written accounts that the game was already halfway done when Tagihara stepped down. He did give some ideas that ended up being the main thing, but he didn't make them into the game by his sheer force of will, Tagihara did. IGA came in and finished the thing.

If he were so good at making SOTN, he would have made SOTN again, but he never did.

 

[fireflame]

I assume it was because they were a 'competing' studio within Konami. They made all the original games in the series from late 1997 through 2001, while the only thing Igarashi did in that time was essentially a budget port of the 1993 X68K game to PS1, of all systems, despite the fact the PS2 had been out over a year at that point. Then when Harmony of Dissonance was compared unfavourably with Circle of the Moon, maybe he got jealous.

Of course there's also the famous quote about how a weak woman could not be the start of the Belmont clan. Which he replaced with a story about a dead girlfriend whip...

Not sure if he said a weak women or just say that women could not use the whip for magical reasons(just like only women can fully use belnades powers). On the other hand i remmber a quote about how Castlevania aimed male players first.

 

[D.Lo]

he convinced people on that, but there are written accounts that the game was already halfway done when Tagihara stepped down. He did give some ideas that ended up being the main thing, but he didn't make them into the game by his sheer force of will, Tagihara did. IGA came in and finished the thing.

If he were so good at making SOTN, he would have made SOTN again, but he never did.

Yep.

 

[heyf00L]

Circle of the Moon was by far my favorite. I did all the new game + iterations it had.

I enjoyed the other GBA titles, but sacrificing the game audio for better graphics was a mistake. And while it was a good move then, brightening up the graphics makes them look way worse now.

 

[Vandole]

I need to go back to OoE one of these says. I gave up on it pretty quickly when it first came out. Konami was releasing almost annual installments of the series at the time and I was a little burned out on Castlevania by the time it came out. Didn't really enjoy what I played but I think I just wasn't in the right mindframe for it.

 

[RoadHazard]

LoS isn't canon? It's a great game (the original).

 

[Htown]

Could it be an issue for them to get Sega's permission since the game was made for Genesis?

I don't see how. Sega sells Genesis games just about everywhere it can, don't know why they'd suddenly be against this one.

 

[Brandon F]

So are Legends, COTM and 64/LOD the only non-canon classic games? Poor KCEK, what did Iga have against them?

Legends I believe was officially retconned at some point(I think Iga actually made a public statement about it when :ugh: Lament launched on PS2). No big loss really as the game had issues(though a female Belmont was a nice inclusion).

I refuse to believe that CotM and 64/LoD are not canon though.

LoS isn't canon? It's a great game (the original).

Kind of its own universe really.

 

[Ahasverus]

LoS isn't canon? It's a great game (the original).

It's its own canon with the other 2 games.

 

[D.Lo]

I refuse to believe that CotM and 64/LoD are not canon though.

I believe at some point Igarashi 'allowed' them back in, stating they were just not part of the main story/key entries in the history.

Of course the implication of that is that 'memorable' chapters like those of Juste Belmont, or Hector the Devil Forgemaster were key entries for some reason...

 

[Fiendcode]

I enjoyed the other GBA titles, but sacrificing the game audio for better graphics was a mistake. And while it was a good move then, brightening up the graphics makes them look way worse now.

Are there any color/palette hacks for the GBA games? That might help, especially for HOD.

If he were so good at making SOTN, he would have made SOTN again, but he never did.

tbh I prefer the Aria twins and Ecclesia to Symphony anyway.

Of course there's also the famous quote about how a weak woman could not be the start of the Belmont clan. Which he replaced with a story about a dead girlfriend whip...

Ugh. I'll pretend Ecclesia's his apology for that.

 

[Ahasverus]

Ugh. I'll pretend Ecclesia's his apology for that.

Soma was also going to be a woman, but he shut the idea down.

 

[Ananaz]

IGA didn't really retcon the Kobe games out of the timeline, or at least by his own words the games were intended to be sidestories by their original creators to begin with. If they all were part of the canon, they would have had Dracula resurrect three times within a span of roughly 30 years during the 1800s. Circle of the Moon also kinda goes out on it's way to not reference other games in the series (including the N64 games), since there's no mention of Belmonts or the Vampire Killer, just... the Baldwin and Graves families and their "Hunter Whip."

He definitely did remove Legends and made some troubling comments about Sonia being the protagonist, but I think he also wasn't terribly fond of the implication that Alucard might be Trevor's father.

 

[Maedhros]

It's a B-grade 3D remake with poorly emulated versions of Rondo and SoTN, the latter of which also has some crap additions. Both are blurry and have sound issues, even when using 'original' resolution. The worst way to play any of the Dracula X series really, outside of the busted Saturn port. The PSN SoTN available on the PSP is basically perfect, which makes the poor emulation even more ridiculous.

Totally agree. Igarashi has made some good games (Aria, Ecclesia) and some shit ones (both his flat corridor 3D turds, HoD). But his timeline bullshit was petty and stupid. And this thread is basically proof as to how it can have a negative effect, here is someone rejecting great games like CoTM and CV64 simply because the guy who declared himself Lord of CV said to.

What is most bizarre is that the most busted CV game, timeline wise, New Generation/Bloodlines, was maintained in the timeline. It's the game that stupidly tries to tie Castlevania (essentially the Universal Monster movie universe Drac) to Bram Stoker's novel about a supernatural sexual predator. While simultaneously requiring twisting logic to fit into either's world (oh so Quincy Morris had an unmentioned son? And no Belmonts?)

CoTM is a good game, just not canon.

CV 64 is just a piece of shit game in any possible way. It had the right idea with 3D and vertical design and platform, but the execution was pretty bad. LoD didn't get it any better. I forced myself to finish them just because I'm a Castlevania fan, but they're turds.

 

[MechaX]

IGA didn't really retcon the Kobe games out of the timeline, or at least by his own words the games were intended to be sidestories by their original creators to begin with. If they all were part of the canon, they would have had Dracula resurrect three times within a span of roughly 30 years during the 1800s. Circle of the Moon also kinda goes out on it's way to not reference other games in the series (including the N64 games), since there's no mention of Belmonts or the Vampire Killer, just... the Baldwin and Graves families and their "Hunter Whip."

He definitely did remove Legends and made some troubling comments about Sonia being the protagonist, but I think he also wasn't terribly fond of the implication that Alucard might be Trevor's father.

This is how I understood things at the end, because IGA went back and forth about stuff like CotM before he just kinda settled on them being in the timeline.

IGA definitely did Sonia dirty through

 

[D.Lo]

CoTM is a good game, just not canon.

CV 64 is just a piece of shit game in any possible way. It had the right idea with 3D and vertical design and platform, but the execution was pretty bad. LoD didn't get it any better. I forced myself to finish them just because I'm a Castlevania fan, but they're turds.

Strongly disagree. By far the best 3D Castlevania.

 

[Maedhros]

The idea of a female Belmont is great. Sonia isn't a good execution of the idea at all, except for maybe shippers or fanfic-ers.

The game is the best one from the GB ones, the most playable of them.

 

[Fiendcode]

Strongly disagree. By far the best 3D Castlevania.

Not exactly a high bar to pass.

I think Rygar or Pandora's Tower probably better executed on the idea of a 3D Castlevania than anything in the series itself did.

 

[thepenguin55]

My list:
1. Rondo of Blood
2. Super Castlevania
3. Bloodlines
4. Castlevania 3 (The Japanese version; the difficulty of the US version kind of ruins the game)
5. Castlevania
6. Castlevania: The Adventure - Rebirth
7. Castlevania Chronicles
8. Symphony of the Night
9. Curse of Darkness
10. Haunted Castle. Yeah, I actually like this game. Namely the Japanese version which can have a pretty fair difficulty if you adjust the dip switches... or maybe I'm thinking of the US version? Either way, there's a pretty fair version of this game that does in fact exist

(Then there's a BIG drop off in my list)

11. Dracula XX
12. Castlevania 64
13. Castlevania: Legacy of Darkness
14. Castlevania 2
15. Castlevania MSX

I also like the first Lords of Shadow game (the other two were trash) but I didn't rank it because that seemed against the spirit of this thread. I know C64 and LOD aren't canonical and I know my list includes 3 variations of Castlevania 1 as well as an alternate version of Rondo of Blood but they were internally developed games so I included them. My list might be a little controversial so allow me to elaborate more:

Back before Iga announced his kickstarter there was that site of his that asked the question of "sword or whip". I'm sure many wondered who would choose whip over sword. The answer is: ME. SOTN is a good but messy game and to me COD is a good 3D version of that game. The problem is that with the exception of COD none of the SOTN-style games in the series that came after SOTN grabbed me even remotely. In fact, after spending a significant amount of time with Dawn of Sorrow I kind of grew to detest that game. Those games just all seemed so easy (and thus boring) to me and they all seemed kind of lifeless to me too. Even the music in those games were generally kind of bland with the best tracks being the remixes of classic tracks. I'm still open to revisiting some of those games (DOS excluded) and giving them another shot, but those games always felt to me like the series just riding on fumes.

I was born in the 80s but I didn't even come to the Castlevania series until the early 2000s. I just randomly decided to pick up the series cause I knew it was supposed to be good. Even then playing through Super Castlevania and Rondo of Blood for the first time were like seminal gaming moments for me. I had a very "where have you been all my life" moment with those two games.

 

[Saikyo]

I am going to defend Portrait of Ruin and say why Dawn of Sorrow is a weak game.

I dont understand how people like Dawn of Sorrow, weaker bosses and areas, music arent that memorable like in Aria, the souls drops have terrible rate (Aria was more fair in that case), with that in mind making new weapons is kind of chore and you are forced to choose between boss souls or better weapons in the first save, they could have finally let Soma equip one weapon in both hands but used a "two set systems" that are meh also the seal system get boring fast and finally the new art doesnt blend, good thing that there are two fan patches to fix removing the seal system, fix the drop rate and having a more Kojima like artwork.

But the game has good stuffs like Julius mode with Alucard and Yoko (and you dont have to use the seal system), shame that you cant fight Julius as Soma like in Aria, just the other way around.

Portrait still dont let you have two weapons but the partner system is fun, grinding your sub weapons dont take the same time as soul grindind in dawn, you dont need to build weapons just buy it or get with a monster drop, a better OST than Dawn, the more anime style of the portraits fits better with the new characters, fun areas and I guess the Igavania who has the most secret characters in the series (Richter/Maria, the vampire sisters and Axe Armor), I am kinda biased that its my favorite game in the series but a lot of people just dont like it because its not like SOTN and its not "serious" like the older games, I see that people dont like whip users in Igavanias unless the game is stupid hard (cotm)

 

[Brandon F]

I think Rygar or Pandora's Tower probably better executed on the idea of a 3D Castlevania than anything in the series itself did.

Need to play more of it myself, but the bit of Pandora's Tower I have played really did feel like a unique Castlevania game for sure.

Rygar though...it was an alright action game with some platforming, but I'd still give CV64 the nod for conceptualizing what CV could be in 3D the best(even if the control and precision certainly held it back).

 

[v1oz]

I still wish I could play Dracula X. That was the most hyped Castlevania apart from SOTN when it came out.

 

[F0rneus]

Order of Ecclesia is the best game in the franchise. A true blue masterpiece. SOTN is almost up there, but the lack of challenge is a true bummer. OOE is the same thing except it's hard as nails, and it makes the boss fights actual threats with patterns to remember.

 

[chemicals]

Castlevania is one of the best franchises ever. I don't love the new games but damn SOTN and a few of those GBA/DS games are masterpieces. SOTN might be the best game ever. I wish Dracula X for turbo duo was ported to Steam. Peace

 

[Morfeo]

Definitely agree with the praise for Order of Ecclesia. That is indeed the secret best game in the series.

 

[zenspider]

Mercury Steam games non-canon?

Christ, here we go...

 

[Mr. Poolman]

Mercury Steam games non-canon?

Christ, here we go...

Not even Castlevania games to me.

 

[D.Lo]

Mercury Steam games non-canon?

Christ, here we go...

They were specifically designed not to be, they are a reboot.

Or another way of putting it is that right now they are the only canon games.

 

[zenspider]

Not even Castlevania games to me.

Here here.

 

[F0rneus]

Mercury Steam games non-canon?

Christ, here we go...

But they aren't. They are a reboot, that are unconnected to the games before them.

 

[Star Orpheus]

Hated Lords of Shadow personally. Aria still remains my absolute favorite in terms of both style and gameplay.

 

[SSJLuffy]

Never played a game in the series, I should fix that

 

[FiveSide]

Wow, the Order of Ecclesia love is real. I'll definitely check that one out.

Castlevania: The Adventure Rebirth on WiiWare is probably the most underrated entry imo. Sure, it's not the best classic-style one (that would be Rondo), but it's a great game that's leagues better than the original.

Never was a fan of Castlevania III to be honest. The difficulty is just too crushing, at least for me. Seriously brutal game.

 

[Astrael]

Yeah, another vote for Order of Ecclesia as best in the series here. It's the only game in the series I still have my physical copy of, though I did pick up the digital version of SOTN and Castlevania III. I need to find a copy of Aria of Sorrow to replay now

The only game I missed on this list was Bloodlines, because I never owned a Genesis, but watched a playthrough of it after finishing Portrait of Ruin to see where these characters came from. I actually enjoyed PoR's unique character swapping gimmick but I don't think they used it to full effect since like only one late fight requires Charlotte if I recall (for the true ending), so didn't have much incentive to replay it.

 

[ClearMetal]

It's great seeing all the love for Ecclesia here. I'm hardly a veteran of the series, only having played the three games on the DS, but it's definitely my favorite of the bunch. It's one of the games I immediately think of whenever one of those 'list your favorite games of all time' threads pops up.

 

[Ecliptor]

I'm sad that Castlevania 64 is not canon.

 

[Conrad Link]

I'm sad that Castlevania 64 is not canon.

In my heart it is the most canon.

 

[Foffy]

I'm sad that Castlevania 64 is not canon.

It probably still has the best atmosphere of the 3D games.

The N64 "fog" really helped give the game a deeply moody atmosphere.

 

[D.Lo]

I'm sad that Castlevania 64 is not canon.

It actually has probably the actual best story of the series. It's light, but it has Malus, Rosa, and Vincent, and actual interesting twists and turns. Not just talky talky animu melodrama.

 

[cartman414]

he convinced people on that, but there are written accounts that the game was already halfway done when Tagihara stepped down. He did give some ideas that ended up being the main thing, but he didn't make them into the game by his sheer force of will, Tagihara did. IGA came in and finished the thing.

If he were so good at making SOTN, he would have made SOTN again, but he never did.

Yep.

Hagihara designed the general scenario before he left. It was after taking up the mantle that Iga, in response to games being sold on the aftermarket in short order after being beaten once, decided to take inspiration elsewhere (i. e. Zelda and Metroid).

And SotN is overrated. It has too much design cruft in comparison to Aria and Dawn of Sorrow, which eclipse it. Here are a couple examples:

This, along with there being less warp rooms, results in more backtracking.

 

[Fess]

Totally agree on Order of Ecclesia, it's an absolutely fantastic game!