LTTP: The Last of Us (unmarked spoilers)

M

Marjar

Banned
A while back I tried out this game and didn't like it much at all. After a big 5 month break, I decided to give it another shot for the hell of it.

And what do you know, I was actually enjoying it quite a bit, however, after a while I felt like I was going through the motions and playing it for the story as opposed to the actual game itself.

Summer and Fall were actually probably my favorite parts of the game. I enjoyed most of the encounters, and while there were some awful moments (like that sniper part where you have to defend Henry, Sam, and Ellie from bandits) it was actually pretty fun.

Winter began horribly though. I hated playing those action-y segments with Ellie because of how weak she was. It felt that didn't really fit considering before then the game is pretty forgiving with letting you choose between being stealthy and just going shootbang on everyone. But then the Winter chapter redeemed itself with the stealth segments, switching between Ellie and Joel, and the "boss battle" against David.

As for the story, I didn't really think it was anything special. For whatever reason, I never felt any major attachment to any of the characters. I didn't particularly find any of them particularly likable or memorable, aside from David, who was probably my favorite character because he was such a horrible piece of shit that I loved hating. He was actually different and unpredictable, which isn't really something I could say about the rest of the cast.

And then of course there's Joel, who turns into a complete psychopathic maniac at the end. I know a lot of people think the ending is amazing, even perfect for some, but I really hated it. So much so that I was really close to just turning off my PS3 and shelving the game for good. I didn't want to play as Joel anymore. He becomes completely despicable, and I honestly just wanted him dead. I know the ending is supposed to be morally gray and not all sunshine and lollipops, but it not only left me dissatisfied, but also made it feel like the entire 13 hours of game I played through was practically meaningless.

So yeah, overall though, the gameplay was alright, despite having a good chunk of really annoying sections. The story wasn't as great as I was expecting, being pretty trope-y and predictable, and the ending almost ruined the whole game for me.

It's an okay game with an ending that left a pretty horrible taste in my mouth. A pretty big disappointment for something that I had high expectations for after all the acclaim. But hey, that's opinions for ya.
 
Marjar said:
As for the story, I didn't really think it was anything special. For whatever reason, I never felt any major attachment to any of the characters. I didn't particularly find any of them particularly likable or memorable, aside from David, who was probably my favorite character because he was such a horrible piece of shit that I loved hating. He was actually different and unpredictable, which isn't really something I could say about the rest of the cast.
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Felt the exact same way. Nothing about the characters grabbed me or made me care about them. I kept feeling like I was supposed to care about them but it just never came together for me for whatever reason.
 
The game bits were really good, excusing the drawn out spaces in areas for exploring/scavenging upgrade bits.

The story was good too, but it certainly didnt floor me or resonate anywhere near as much as it seems to with other people. The giraffe scene in particular was a bit too indulgent.

I thought the game was at its best when you were sneaking through the college campus underground rooms, or stealthing through winter, or when angry injured Joel goes on his rescue mission.

Conversely it was at its worst when you were faced with multiple retries because of bad aiming when upside down on a rope trap, or when trying to snipe with sluggish controls.

There was definitely more good than bad, the bad bits were only standout because there was actually quite a lot of good in it. But I reckon there could be a few tweaks in a future sequel.
 
Crayolan said:
The reasons you give for hating the ending are exactly why people love it.
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I just can't get behind the logic of possibly dooming humanity for one child. Maybe it's just because I've never experienced having a child or something, but it just seemed wrong to me.

And I realize that's the point, I guess I just don't really like the point.
 
This is probably the only game where I actually have no idea if I like it or not. I usually lean towards no though. Not really because of the game itself, but rather the ridiculous amounts of hyperbole spewed out by both it's praisers and detractors.
 
Speaking of The Last of Us, I haven't seen it mentioned too often but isn't Alone and Forsaken real fitting ? You hear it when entering Pittsburgh but the interpretation of the song can be applied to The Last of Us' story really well.
 
Marjar said:
I just can't get behind the logic of possibly dooming humanity for one child. Maybe it's just because I've never experienced having a child or something, but it just seemed wrong to me.

And I realize that's the point, I guess I just don't really like the point.
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Consider the true meaning of the story: a metaphor for gaming as a whole
 
If this is anything like the last thread you'll see why the ending was perfect for the game. The ending is subjective in regards to whether it's good or shit, but the different viewpoints that people have on it, which still brings up interesting discussion/debate a year after release is why it's perfect.
 
Marjar said:
Winter began horribly though. I hated playing those action-y segments with Ellie because of how weak she was. It felt that didn't really fit considering before then the game is pretty forgiving with letting you choose between being stealthy and just going shootbang on everyone.
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Did you play on easy?
 
If I ran this forum, there'd be a sticky at the top of Gaming Discussion that reads: "Play TLOU On Hard Mode First With Listening Mode Off. Thank Us Later."

Marjar said:
I just can't get behind the logic of possibly dooming humanity for one child. Maybe it's just because I've never experienced having a child or something, but it just seemed wrong to me.

And I realize that's the point, I guess I just don't really like the point.
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The point is what you make of it. Don't you see how potentially powerful that is? Just the fact that you're having this inner dialogue is the gift the ending is giving you. That's what separates the ending of this game from the ending of more traditional, mainstream stories. You get nicely wrapped packages of broad-base pleasing endings all the time in this era of Hollywood-storytelling. Don't you appreciate the notion that even if you may not find the ending aesthetically pleasing - at least it's a genuine and sincere attempt at stimulating you and is something different?
 
Marjar said:
I just can't get behind the logic of possibly dooming humanity for one child. Maybe it's just because I've never experienced having a child or something, but it just seemed wrong to me.

And I realize that's the point, I guess I just don't really like the point.
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Humanity was already long gone. It's not like Ellie was a guarantee for the cure...Even then it wasn't really a cure. Everyone who had already turned was going to stay that way. It only made people immune.

There aren't really any good people in the last of us and that's what makes it great. Everyone is in it for themselves. If the fireflies would have managed a cure, it's not like they'd immediately share it with anyone. It'd just be another factor in a huge power struggle between everyone just trying to survive.

And Joel's just as selfish as anyone else. Ellie replaced his daughter, and he'd be damned if he was going to lose her again.
 
Marjar said:
I just can't get behind the logic of possibly dooming humanity for one child. Maybe it's just because I've never experienced having a child or something, but it just seemed wrong to me.

And I realize that's the point, I guess I just don't really like the point.
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But maybe she is not the only one who is immune.. i have not played it since it first came out but if my memory serves me right they talk about others in a tape you find who were immune that the doctors had die on them with no success in finding any sort of cure. Maybe Joel was not willing to risk her life for what could potentially mean nothing. I could be mistaken.
He is a maniac for risking the doom of everyone else but he is a saint for saving her life. I think its an amazing ending.
aw man now i have to play through it again.
 
Marjar said:
I just can't get behind the logic of possibly dooming humanity for one child. Maybe it's just because I've never experienced having a child or something, but it just seemed wrong to me.

And I realize that's the point, I guess I just don't really like the point.
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Because he lost his daughter and evidently never recovered. Joel is a mess, entirely flawed and has nothing by the end of the game but his "replacement" daughter.

Towards the end of the game, we see how messed up Joel is -- he IS the bad guy, we learn, by listening to the conversations of the other humans we encounter. Yes, some of the factions like David's lot are also monstrous and have resorted to cannibalism, but even they are terrified of Joel, which should tell us something about what he has become. He loves Ellie, and he's emotionally unhinged. Nothing else matters to him. The ending, for me, was both shocking and entirely expected. I wouldn't have wanted it any other way.
 
I quite enjoyed "The Last of Us"
I thought the combat felt gratifying, tense, and more involved than the Uncharted series's. The story was also pretty well written when all is said and done. The plot was obviously nothing new, but the quality of the narrative felt "new" for a AAA shooting game(The Winter section with all it's little twist was pretty good imo.)

My only real problem with it were the enemy encounters, and designs. Someone has got to learn how to create a more varied pack of them in future shooting games. Fighting the same enemies(infected, and Humans) over and over again in similar situations got tiring real fast.

Despite that, it's a great game. Even if it wasn't my game of the year, I can understand how it won it's 200 or so awards. hahaha
 
Didn't we have this thread last week?

Ending was true to the characters and world they built. Anything else would have not felt right and gimmicky.
 
Marjar said:
I just can't get behind the logic of possibly dooming humanity for one child. Maybe it's just because I've never experienced having a child or something, but it just seemed wrong to me.

And I realize that's the point, I guess I just don't really like the point.
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I don't have a child either, but I was actually with Joel in saving Ellie, but that's probably because I grew attached to her character. Since you didn't, I suppose it makes sense that you'd rather she die for the chance to save humanity, since she means no more to you than anyone else did in that world.

I guess the expression of someone "meaning the world" to somebody else is kind of literal in a sense to Joel when it comes to Ellie.
 
MisterGrey3000 said:
My only real problem with it were the enemy encounters, and designs. Someone has got to learn how to create a more varied pack of them in future shooting games. Fighting the same enemies(infected, and Humans) over and over again in similar situations got tiring real fast.
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This was my biggest issue... I honestly cannot think of a single action(ish) game that had as small an enemy variety as this game. The fact that it's a 15-20 hour game magnifies the problem even more.
 
You always have to look at the situation from the character's point of view and even then that doesn't matter because you still aren't in the situation, it's like when someone sees a video of a person being hurt in some kind of way and many they say "oh I would of done something about it" but in reality if they were in that position the chances are that they would react differently than expected.

Believing that Joel doomed humanity simply is just a characteristic of yourself. You didn't go through what Joel went through. You didn't experience the same traumatic events that shaped into what he is now. For someone like Joel, saving the world isn't on his list of important things to do.

This is what the writers wanted Joel to be. This is the character they set out to write. Whether you agree with the point doesn't matter. What matter is if point makes sense. Having Joel save humanity is against his character by evidenced of all the build-up he has had throughout the entire game. That would be bad writing and then that would be an actual criticism. I don't believe that if the story or character isn't developed or portrayed in the shape you want it to be is an actual criticism but just your mere opinion which is totally fine.
 
ascii42 said:
I don't have a child either, but I was actually with Joel in saving Ellie, but that's probably because I grew attached to her character. Since you didn't, I suppose it makes sense that you'd rather she die for the chance to save humanity, since she means no more to you than anyone else did in that world.

I guess the expression of someone "meaning the world" to somebody else is kind of literal in a sense to Joel when it comes to Ellie.
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Well that's another thing. Not only did I not feel attached to any of the characters, but I didn't feel like the development of Ellie and Joel's relationship was all that believable.

It was like one moment they were indifferent towards each other, and then suddenly they're inseparable. I felt like I missed something or just completely misinterpreted something.
 
-MD- said:
Did you play on easy?
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I have this problem with the game and I've played it even on survivor or w/e the hardest difficulty was called.

The enemies are fucking horrible at chasing you down, worst case scenario a guy would get too close so I'd shoot him or w/e and then run away. Some areas they blatantly wouldn't chase you through so you'd be able to create an easy escape plan.
 
Marjar said:
Well that's another thing. Not only did I not feel attached to any of the characters, but I didn't feel like the development of Ellie and Joel's relationship was all that believable.

It was like one moment they were indifferent towards each other, and then suddenly they're inseparable. I felt like I missed something or just completely misinterpreted something.
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She did save his life. There is that.
 
TheSpaceBetween said:
This is probably the only game where I actually have no idea if I like it or not. I usually lean towards no though. Not really because of the game itself, but rather the ridiculous amounts of hyperbole spewed out by both it's praisers and detractors.
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If you liked it, you liked it. If you didn't, you didn't. Why would the opinion of a bunch of random people have any impact on your own?

Marjar said:
Well that's another thing. Not only did I not feel attached to any of the characters, but I didn't feel like the development of Ellie and Joel's relationship was all that believable.

It was like one moment they were indifferent towards each other, and then suddenly they're inseparable. I felt like I missed something or just completely misinterpreted something.
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They were indifferent towards each other when they first met, yeah. Then they spent months surviving against humans and infected and developed a bond.
 
Marjar said:
Well that's another thing. Not only did I not feel attached to any of the characters, but I didn't feel like the development of Ellie and Joel's relationship was all that believable.

It was like one moment they were indifferent towards each other, and then suddenly they're inseparable. I felt like I missed something or just completely misinterpreted something.
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They started becoming attached in the Pittsburg chapter. They were both risking their asses for each other. They both saw that any human with humility is very rare. They both witness someone losing a love one and how that person reacted when they lost the last person they cared for (this being two times in the row for each character, Joel with Sarah and Ellie with Riley). Finally in the Fall chapter, Joel realizes he doesn't want to be alone again and Ellie realized that Joel is the only person she has.

I can see why you missed out on this since you didn't care for the characters.
 
Marjar said:
Well that's another thing. Not only did I not feel attached to any of the characters, but I didn't feel like the development of Ellie and Joel's relationship was all that believable.

It was like one moment they were indifferent towards each other, and then suddenly they're inseparable. I felt like I missed something or just completely misinterpreted something.
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In Joel's case, I believe part of why that seems that way is because Joel doesn't want to let her in, so he tries to be indifferent . Then I think at Tommy's he has a bit of a realization. As for Ellie, as she says, her worst fear is being abandoned. So that's probably a big part of why she wants to stick with Joel. Even at the end of the game, I think that's still a part of it. She knows Joel's lying, but accepts the lie because she doesn't want to lose Joel.
 
TheSpaceBetween said:
This was my biggest issue... I honestly cannot think of a single action(ish) game that had as small an enemy variety as this game. The fact that it's a 15-20 hour game magnifies the problem even more.
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This is what I think made the lack of enemy variety more potent.
I really liked that one part where Joel was stuck upside down, and had to defend Ellie from the monsters that were charging at them. I would have loved more situations like that in the game. It would have made up for the lack of interesting, and diverse enemy designs.
 
Marjar said:
I just can't get behind the logic of possibly dooming humanity for one child. Maybe it's just because I've never experienced having a child or something, but it just seemed wrong to me.
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That's the point. There is no logic. You're dealing with a grieving father who couldn't save his daughter, and spent years and years repressing his emotions by doing whatever he could to survive. Then he's presented with the situation at hand and despite his best efforts to remain detached from Ellie, he begins to care for her like his own daughter. So at the end of the game, when presented with the thought of Ellie dying, the reason for her death doesn't matter to Joel, he reverts back to the father who lost his daughter, and he'll do anything he can to prevent it from happening again, humanity be damned. Combine all that with the fact that surviving has made Joel a pretty bad dude, and you've got you're ending.

It's not supposed to be a "HOORAH" ending. It's supposed to be grim. You're not supposed to know how you feel about Joel anymore. It's supposed to make you feel uneasy.

And I'd bet you'd be hard-pressed to find any father who would willingly give up their daughter for the sake of humanity.
 
ItIsOkBro said:
How can you hate the sniper part?
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While I loved the whole section of sneaking and fighting up to the sniper (seriously one of the most tense, and well designed set pieces I've ever played) the actual part when you get the rifle was a bog standard gaming moment of 'stationary turret defense'. You should have been able to move around at least instead of being locked into the scope.
 
Fancy Clown said:
While I loved the whole section of sneaking and fighting up to the sniper (seriously one of the most tense, and well designed set pieces I've ever played) the actual part when you get the rifle was a bog standard gaming moment of 'stationary turret defense'. You should have been able to move around at least instead of being locked into the scope.
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Marjar said:
It was basically a forced turret section mixed with an escort mission.

That's like ultra-awful.
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Oops, I misunderstood, I thought you were talking about the sneaking up portion.
 
Kimosabae said:
If I ran this forum, there'd be a sticky at the top of Gaming Discussion that reads: "Play TLOU On Hard Mode First With Listening Mode Off. Thank Us Later."
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This is what I did on my first play through and I absolutely loved it. The game felt so perfect at this setting and I honestly pity anyone whose first play through wasn't this.
 
You really think that Ellie could have saved mankind? Just think about this for a second...

They wouldn't actually know they can create a cure until they've cut open her brain. It's not a 100% chance of creating a cure, so right there you're taking a HUGE risk.

Then theres the question of how the hell do they plan on spreading this cure? How will they manufacture truck loads of it? They're in an apocalyptic setting and don't have all the materials to mass produce a cure and then also ship it out everywhere in the world.

Also what makes you think the fireflies will share the cure with everyone else? Maybe they will hog it and force people to pay for it with things such as food and materials.

Really, there's a very small posibility that the cure would have worked. You also have to realize that Joel grew to love Ellie. In the beginning he hated her and felt that she was baggage, however near the end they grew fond of each other and started to care for one another.

SPOILER!

When you're running through the hospital with Ellie in your arms do you remember what he calls her? He keeps saying things like "Hold on baby girl". In the beginning when Sarah dies he calls her the exact same thing (baby girl)! He feels as if Ellie has become his daughter.

He lost his daughter once, and he is NOT willing to lose her again. I know you said you have not experienced having a child (neither have I), but if you try and put yourself in Joels shoes, you too would have done anything to save Ellie
 
Marjar said:
It was basically a forced turret section mixed with an escort mission.

That's like ultra-awful.
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Except turret sections in games require little to no skill. You just hold down the trigger because you have unlimited ammo and no reload time.

This section you have a sniper rifle and you have to be precise in your shots, otherwise the enemy gets too close to your allies and they kill them.
 
All this thread has accomplished is to make me really really want to play this game again for a third time. There are so many memorable gamplay sections, environments, and narrative beats. The PS4 remaster needs to hurry up and come out already.
 
Okay sorry for the spamming, and I know people have already said this but...

You said you felt the game made it too easy for you to either shoot everyone on sight or stealth the missions...

Had you actually played the game on a higher difficulty setting, you would have realized this is simply not true.

On survivor for instance, you have extremely limited ammo and is it essential to stealthily take out your enemy, because if you do get in a gun fight you sure as hell won't make it through the whole thing by shooting everyone.

There's also limited supplies so you won't always have a bandage to patch yourself up, which will make it extremely difficult to take your enemy head on.
 
Marjar said:
It was basically a forced turret section mixed with an escort mission.

That's like ultra-awful.
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But... it was only like three to four minutes of sniping, made perfect sense plot-wise (Joel had sneaked up to kill the sniper and once up there had both a great view of the street with his pals in it and a scoped rifle lying at his feet - of course he'd use it), plus from a gameplay perspective it gave the player a rare chance to be in a position of relative power. Think about it: when else in the entire game do you not fear being attacked/running out of ammo, or that your weapons won't be enough to take the enemy down? The sniper section was a rare treat and welcome change of pace IMHO.

I don't think we could describe this section as "escorting", either. You want escorting, think GoldenEye Natalya missions. Now THEY were awful.
 
TheSpaceBetween said:
This was my biggest issue... I honestly cannot think of a single action(ish) game that had as small an enemy variety as this game. The fact that it's a 15-20 hour game magnifies the problem even more.
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There were quite a few enemies in the game, however you have to realize it's supposed to be semi realistic so they can't just make up random enemies for the game.

I think the issue here is you are grouping the infected enemy type together, when in reality there are runners, clickers and bloaters - 3 different type of infected. Then you also include the human enemies and you have 4 total. Obviously this isn't something to brag about, but the game isn't meant to have a ton of enemy types, because it is grounded in reality (to a certain degree of course)
 
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