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LTTP: Trails of Cold Steel - Glad I waited!

duckroll

Member
Yeah it sure would suck if I beat this 8 months ago instead. Keeping it in the box was a good decision. :p

So I beat this yesterday, and it took 75 hours. That's a longass time for a game where basically nothing happens until the last 2 hours of the game. Mind you, that's not really a knock on the game, I liked most of it, but yeah it's a game with a ton of bloat. I think it's a real testament to Falcom's ability to write fun NPCs and an interesting setting though. The actual narrative of the game is intentional a whole bunch of nothing until the very end, and the ending itself is a huge cliffhanger that resolves -nothing-. Yet, it feels satisfying knowing that I played though 7 months of slice of life (emphasis on slice) military academy hijinx with a bunch of uguu, because I will remember all these characters going into the sequel, and I'm actually excited to know what happens next to everyone - especially all the NPCs in various regions.


What I liked:

- Falcom made the transition into a full 3D JRPG really well. While the game is obviously not a high budget affair, there's a good sense of scene composition and direction. The cutscenes and camerawork aren't elaborate or flashy most of the time, but they do a very good job communicating tone and establishing the purpose of the scenes. Compared to a lot of other mid-sized JRPG developers and their first attempts into full 3D games, this is a solid A effort.

- The game makes really good use of the fact that it is full 3D to present locations and the scale of the world in a way which wasn't possible before in the series. While most locations are basically just more detailed versions of what would otherwise be a normal top down town map, the Nord Highlands and Heimdallr in particular have a sense of scale to them which would be impossible to convey with top down maps with 2D character sprites. Great stuff there.

- Once I got the hang of battles, combat was super fast and felt really satisfying. The impact feedback and sound effects go a long way in making the melee characters feel really strong. I can see why they wanted to go with the "cold steel" title, since it's a good analog for the feeling the Japanese title "sen" gives off. It's a feeling that is prevalent in the combat.

- The world building in the series really feels amazing. Coming from Trails in the Sky, being able to actually see Erebonia and meet the people mentioned in passing before, and seeing the impact of certain events mentioned, creates a real sense of an ongoing interconnected fictional universe. Instead of just creating a bunch of characters and continuing a narrative with them at the center of it, this series feels just as much as one where the sense of place is important, and the world is populated by people who live their own lives and exist independently of some threat in other countries. Soooo good.

- The final 2 hours of the game is probably close to everything I hoped the series might become one day in terms of upping the stakes. I expected that they would eventually get there, but the accelerated nature of how each element was introduced did catch me off guard. Lol.

- The School Festival events at the end were -perfect-. Not only did they put a ton of effort into having actual mini-games, but the entire atmosphere was so good. Lots of interactions, and really nice details all over the campus. I'm impressed that they really felt the drive to totally outclass their last attempt at a school festival in FC.



What I didn't like much:

- There is formula and then there is formula. I don't mind the idea of the game mirroring a school year, but the way the chapters are divided here were just too neat and it made the order of events really boring. School Quest Phase -> Schoolhouse Exploration -> Practical Exam -> Field Study Quest Phase -> Some Unexpected Shit Happens Dungeon. Repeat for 6 chapters. I liked the events that happened, but the formula is booooooooooring.

- The Old Schoolhouse. Garbage-tier dungeon. Garbage-tier excuse in the writing to keep exploring a new floor each month. Really lazy on Falcom's part. Compared to everything else in the game, and considering how central this thing is supposed to be for the overall plot of the game, it just feels like a half-assed effort. No one really seems to take the strangeness of it seriously, and even when characters in the know give a nudge nudge wink wink "this is important" hint to the audience it feels tongue in cheek because if anyone really took it seriously the entire place would be closed off and under investigation by professional scientists and archaeologists immediately.

- (>_<) Millium is a shit-tier character. Delete pls. (0_0)

- The streamlined ARCUS system with a Master Quartz and spells being actual Quartz. I'm not a big fan of this. I can totally understand the need to simplify the Orbment system because the way it was in Trails was really too complicated for it's own good, but at the same time I liked the idea that you don't equip spells but rather "unlock" the potential to case them instead. Now instead it's all about equipping the most broken Master Quartz and maxing out the level, and then just equipping as many broken status down Quartz as possible. Kinda zzzz. Hope they iterate on this further to improve it.

- The whole Scooby Doo tone for the dramatic elements of the Field Studies isn't something I feel the game did very well. With FC, I really liked how Estelle and Joshua was always accompanied by adults and professionals during their journey, to highlight that they were basically junior scouts out to earn their badges and because they were doing it while dangerous stuff were happening, supervision was necessary. In Cold Steel it feels like Class VII is given a bit too much freedom to just get involved in things way over their head, but yet no one really cares that much about it. It felt like month after month of "And we would have gotten away with it if not for you meddling kids!!!!"

If all of it was just limited to local conflicts and small scale plotting that added to larger things in the end, I think I would have been fine with it ultimately, but what really soured this ongoing thing was the last few chapters. First they established that Garellia Fortress was the most important border fortress in the country, then they proceed to undermine that by making the security so laughable that a bunch of kids had to stop terrorists from hijacking the railguns. Really? Then we have the kids running into a burning factory in Roer to fight off a mech of unknown origin, and then sneaking alone into a mine held by terrorists instead of just telling much better trained adults about the route they discovered. And when the Schoolhouse goes magic-berserk, the adults actually let the class into what could be an extremely dangerous unknown magical realm, just so they could... errr.... try to save the school festival from being cancelled? Really? Smh.

- In the finale
I was super disappointed by the operetta and concert events. It was something they hyped up for two whole chapters and I was expecting a really good payoff since everything else was so perfect. Sadly they didn't even show the operetta, despite doing the play in FC. To make things worse, when the concert started, the full staged cutscene along with lip flaps playing against a mismatched BGM with NO vocals made the entire thing feel like a huge waste. Terrible "budget" moment for the game. When they finally decide to use vocals for the final song, it felt even worse because it was a solo female vocal playing while the cutscene was showing the entire class singing. Ughhhhh.



Bonus: My reaction to the final chapter in the game.

Trails of Cold Steel - Final Chapter - First 10 minutes

Oh, this sounds like a narrative recap of some content they cut out from the game because they couldn't finish it....

*goes read the Drama CD transcript on XSEED's site*

Okay, this is DEFINITELY content they cut out of the game because they couldn't finish it, lol. It even has a boss fight!


Trails of Cold Steel - Final Chapter - Hours 1-2

Fuck yeah preparing for the School Festival is the best! This is just like that subquest event in TitS FC! Except bigger and better! And this time I don't have to help put up decorations! It's sooooo cool! Oh look, more Crossbell saga references I don't get, sneaked into optional quests! Oh look, another dating event! This game is uguu~!!!

HOLY CRAP! Actual School Festival! OMG! Actual minigames! Actual food stands! OMG DATING EVENTS!!!!!!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH THIS IS THE BESTEST! OMG OMG OMG!

*cycles through all Millium emotes*

(>_<) THIS IS THE BEST, GUYS! TOTALLY AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!


Trails of Cold Steel - Final Chapter - Hours 3-4

Whoa this Final Dungeon reminds me of a diet SMT game! It's totally weird but it's cool! I don't even know what's really going on! If this is the final episode of an anime it would totally be called "Save The School Festival!" Roflmao. Oh look, the final boss. Wait this is Unlimited Blade Works. I remember this from an animu! What's even going on! Whatever, the game will be over soon, I just want to see the concert!


Trails of Cold Steel - Final Chapter - Hours 5-6

Finally, the ending! Well, this game hasn't been about much, but it makes sense that it ends with Class VII coming together to literally "perform" for everyone. Thematically this all makes sense. I'm really surprised the concert was so cheap though. They couldn't even afford real vocals? What's going on Falcom? And why is this song so famous that everyone is singing along. Am I missing about Crossbell saga reference?! Whatever... FINAL DATE time. Uguutastic~ Towa-sempai pls uguu with me!

*waits for credits to roll with next game teaser*

*waits some more*


Trails of Cold Steel - Final Chapter - Hours 7-8

WHAT

THE

FUCK.

It's like the TV series ended and they just rolled right into a 2 hour anime movie where all the REAL SHIT happens.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.

HEY I REMEMBER THESE MECHS FROM CODE GEASS!

WAIT WHY ARE THE LORDS OF ELEMENTAL FROM SRW HERE?!

HOLD ON WAIT THERE IS STILL MORE ACTUAL GAME?!

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH DROWNING IN OUROBOROS MEMBERS EVERYWHERE!


Trails of Cold Steel - Final Chapter - Actual Final Battle and Ending

Whoa whoa whoa. This is a fucking BORING "mecha" battle. Zzzzzzzz. Oh okay there's another one. Shit it's just bori-.... Oh I see what they're doing here. There'll probably be a cutscene after this and a cliffhanger ending. Haha. Well played.

WAIT.

WHAT.

I AM IN A MECH FIGHTING WITH UNARMED KUNG FU AND MY CO-PILOT IS A TALKING CAT.

WHERE DID IT ALL GO WRONG RIGHT?!

Wow, there's a whole different tweaked battle system for mechs. This Xenoawesome! Haha take that! Tutorial battle win!!!!

There is.... MORE?!

WOW THIS BATTLE ROCKS. It's really tightly balanced and I need to actually pay attention to win, and there are lots of new skills to play with and it's awesome! OMG!

YESSSSSSS! I WIN! So... where's this cliffhanger I keep hearing about? Looks like I kicked their asses and they're going to retreat.

Wait...

what...

errrrrr

*credits roll*

This should be illegal...
 

Levyne

Banned
7 months of slice of life (emphasis on slice) military academy hijinx with a bunch of uguu,

There is formula and then there is formula. I don't mind the idea of the game mirroring a school year, but the way the chapters are divided here were just too neat and it made the order of events really boring. School Quest Phase -> Schoolhouse Exploration -> Practical Exam -> Field Study Quest Phase -> Some Unexpected Shit Happens Dungeon. Repeat for 6 chapters. I liked the events that happened, but the formula is booooooooooring.

These two facts and my ho-hum response to SC are really making me unsure if I want to make space for this game at any point. I was told that Falcom did not "VC2" this game, but then I read stuff like this.
 

SolVanderlyn

Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Your final chapter reactions are perfect.

These two facts and my ho-hum response to SC are really making me unsure if I want to make space for this game at any point. I was told that Falcom did not "VC2" this game, but then I read stuff like this.
It's not like VC2 in that regard. "The formula" is definitely a problem, but the game still tells a linear narrative that extends beyond the school stuff.
 
I JUST finished the first game this past weekend, and I nearly feel the same as you about that final chapter. If i had finished this game when it first came out, i would have been desperate for the sequel. SO very glad i waited.
 

desmax

Member
And why is this song so famous that everyone is singing along. Am I missing about Crossbell saga reference?!

I'm pretty sure that's the Trails in the Sky SC Credits theme.
Totally my favorite "Rock" song
 

truly101

I got grudge sucked!
I'm only about 30 hours in to TOCSII and while I like it, I really liked the school formula from TOCS. From the thread of that game, that was pretty much the biggest complaint, that and the tropey characters. But fuck, I liked them too. They were believable and even relatable in the world the game presented.
So what the hell is wrong with me?
 

duckroll

Member
These two facts and my ho-hum response to SC are really making me unsure if I want to make space for this game at any point. I was told that Falcom did not "VC2" this game, but then I read stuff like this.

They absolutely did not VC2 the game. I don't think the core problems with VC2 was ever the school setting. You can have a more juvenile perspective in a world where more serious stories have previously taken place. There's nothing wrong with that. It's all in the execution. VC2 was disappointing not because it was a school setting VC, but because the gameplay was dumbed down significantly, the maps were segmented and lost a lot of tactical options because of that, and the class change system was a huge pain in the ass that encouraged randomized loot grinding. If it didn't have those problems and simply transplanted VC1's gameplay with improvements into a school setting to show a different perspective in the world, I doubt most fans would have been as disappointed or annoyed.

But that being said, if you have a ho-hum response to SC, there's really no reason to continue the series. Clearly a taste disorder. :p
 
These two facts and my ho-hum response to SC are really making me unsure if I want to make space for this game at any point. I was told that Falcom did not "VC2" this game, but then I read stuff like this.

They didn't "VC2" the game in terms of reducing the scale. It's definitely weaker than FC/SC though.
 

duckroll

Member
They didn't "VC2" the game in terms of reducing the scale. It's definitely weaker than FC/SC though.

The final 2 hours of CS1 is better than anything in FC imo. But.... yeah, the 73 hours before that are totally weaker than FC/SC. Still had a great time though. Mint better have a huge role in CS2!
 
The final 2 hours of this game is legendary as far as I'm concerned, I have never played a game that actually spent 60+ hours of build up for it to actually pay off in the end in one of the most epic endings of all god damn time. I don't care if its a cliffhanger its perfect and waiting 9 months for CS2 was absoulte freaking torture.
 

Zukuu

Banned
Reading that makes me glad I didn't bother with the game. That "last hour is good, rest is boring" really scarred me from Trails in the Sky FC. I couldn't stomach SC after 20 hours of "really boring" - in the same world, against the same enemies no-less with terrible "You have to use this new (old) character, he's level 30, even when you are level 50. Have fun doing sidequests on Hard."

Seems like Cold repeats that AGAIN. You'd think they would have figured out how to pace a story, but they do the 90% backloaded approach for the 3rd time in a row. Wow.
 

Levyne

Banned
They absolutely did not VC2 the game. I don't think the core problems with VC2 was ever the school setting. You can have a more juvenile perspective in a world where more serious stories have previously taken place. There's nothing wrong with that. It's all in the execution. VC2 was disappointing not because it was a school setting VC, but because the gameplay was dumbed down significantly, the maps were segmented and lost a lot of tactical options because of that, and the class change system was a huge pain in the ass that encouraged randomized loot grinding. If it didn't have those problems and simply transplanted VC1's gameplay with improvements into a school setting to show a different perspective in the world, I doubt most fans would have been as disappointed or annoyed.

But that being said, if you have a ho-hum response to SC, there's really no reason to continue the series. Clearly a taste disorder. :p

Good to know. The cold steel games are still on the list for whenever I finally get a PS4. Just good to know I'll have to make do with some of the slice of life / school setting stuff and that the core gameplay is not compromised.
 

PK Gaming

Member
Played this over the span of a month in the summer and pretty much had the time of my life. Like "this is arguably my new favorite franchise" time of my life. After I beat CS2 I definitely plan on working my way through TiTS and some of the other Falcom games.

What did you think of the characters overall?

More importantly what did you think of our lord and savior, Crow-sama.
 
When I beat part 1 I died inside knowing how long I'd have to wait. Brilliant series IMO. Love all of them. It's definitely a formula that if you're not into I can understand why you wouldn't get sucked in but if you don't mind it, there's so much there for you that I'm just not getting from other games or other series in terms of characters/world building/gameplay.
 
Reading that makes me glad I didn't bother with the game. That "last hour is good, rest is boring" really scarred me from Trails in the Sky FC. I couldn't stomach SC after 20 hours of "really boring" - in the same world, against the same enemies no-less with terrible "You have to use this new (old) character, he's level 30, even when you are level 50. Have fun doing sidequests on Hard."

Seems like Cold repeats that AGAIN. You'd think they would have figured out how to pace a story, but they do the 90% backloaded approach for the 3rd time in a row. Wow.

It shouldn't, despite minor pacing problems (its all character development, which is why I never got the hate, its not like its filler content it just takes its time developing the main characters and the NPC's) the story is fantastic and has a legit payoff in the end. It's also got one of the best OST's in recent memory, one of the most fun turn based battle systems I've ever played, and truly great characters and amazing world development. Erebonia feels like a real place you could go to and real people you could meet.

I also disagree about the Old School's being a shit dungeon, it would be shit if its was 200+ levels like Persona 3 but its not, its 1 or 2 areas in each of the 6 floors and takes less then 30 minutes to complete each time you go through it, in other words its not long enough to justify people ranting about it as much as they do, at least IMO.
 
Good to know. The cold steel games are still on the list for whenever I finally get a PS4. Just good to know I'll have to make do with some of the slice of life / school setting stuff and that the core gameplay is not compromised.

You can't play Cold Steel on PS4, don't worry
 
Reading that makes me glad I didn't bother with the game. That "last hour is good, rest is boring" really scarred me from Trails in the Sky FC. I couldn't stomach SC after 20 hours of "really boring" - in the same world, against the same enemies no-less with terrible "You have to use this new (old) character, he's level 30, even when you are level 50. Have fun doing sidequests on Hard."

Seems like Cold repeats that AGAIN. You'd think they would have figured out how to pace a story, but they do the 90% backloaded approach for the 3rd time in a row. Wow.

Third time in a row? Cold Steel is the sixth game in the series. The actual third game after Sky SC has a completely different pacing. So this is more like... a return to form...
 

duckroll

Member
I also disagree about the Old School's being a shit dungeon, it would be shit if its was 200+ levels like Persona 3 but its not, its 1 or 2 areas in each of the 6 floors and takes less then 30 minutes to complete each time you go through it, in other words its not long enough to justify people ranting about it as much as they do, at least IMO.

It's a shit dungeon because the way it is presented in the game hurts the game. It makes the formula more obvious, it stretches the suspension of belief in how otherwise responsible characters in the should react, and it literally adds -nothing- to the setting, lore, or narrative of the game. It has zero purpose other than to waste 30-40 minutes of your time every chapter. The definition of real filler. On top of all that, it isn't even an interesting dungeon. The schoolhouse portions of the game is the equivalent of clipshow recap episodes in a long running anime series.

In Persona 3, the dungeon exists for the sake of gameplay. It's fun and dangerous, and works as a dungeon crawler independent of the plot, but also strongly supported by the plot. It's not about how long a dungeon is, it's about whether it has a proper place in the overall scope of the game. P3 is designed around the dungeon. CS1 is not designed around the Schoolhouse.
They could literally remove the Schoolhouse dungeon from the game, have more foreshadowing of it wanting to "test" Rean when the time is right in the prologue, and then leave the end part in the final chapter, and it would be EXACTLY the same.
 

preta

Member
It's a shit dungeon because the way it is presented in the game hurts the game. It makes the formula more obvious, it stretches the suspension of belief in how otherwise responsible characters in the should react, and it literally adds -nothing- to the setting, lore, or narrative of the game. It has zero purpose other than to waste 30-40 minutes of your time every chapter. The definition of real filler. On top of all that, it isn't even an interesting dungeon. The schoolhouse portions of the game is the equivalent of clipshow recap episodes in a long running anime series.

You wouldn't be saying that if you'd played 3rd. Incidentally, what did you think of the sewers of Heimdallr?
 

Squire

Banned
I'm only about 30 hours in to TOCSII and while I like it, I really liked the school formula from TOCS. From the thread of that game, that was pretty much the biggest complaint, that and the tropey characters. But fuck, I liked them too. They were believable and even relatable in the world the game presented.
So what the hell is wrong with me?

Nothing. The negativity in the OTs for both games can be a little overwhelming.

Good impressions though, duckroll. They're entertaining and your gripes are fair.

Played this over the span of a month in the summer and pretty much had the time of my life. Like "this is arguably my new favorite franchise" time of my life. After I beat CS2 I definitely plan on working my way through TiTS and some of the other Falcom games.

What did you think of the characters overall?

More importantly what did you think of our lord and savior, Crow-sama.

#FuckCrow

I also disagree about the Old School's being a shit dungeon, it would be shit if its was 200+ levels like Persona 3 but its not, its 1 or 2 areas in each of the 6 floors and takes less then 30 minutes to complete each time you go through it, in other words its not long enough to justify people ranting about it as much as they do, at least IMO.

Agreed. I'm actually surprised it bothers anyone this much. I mostly considered it a distraction they had in there to put you in combat a little more often and further that plot thread. I mean, (final chapter spoiler)
I actually found the length of the dungeon the last time you enter it to be almost horribly mismatched with every Chaoter prior. It's soooooo long after the entire game has trained you to think you'll never be in there for very long at all.
 

Bronetta

Ask me about the moon landing or the temperature at which jet fuel burns. You may be surprised at what you learn.
Im going through the game at the moment too despite owning it since release.

-12 hours in on Chapter 2, heading out for the field study.

-I love the combat system and even normal encounters are a lot of fun. On that note hooray for no random battles.

-Even though nothing happens this game its character building is top notch and keeps me wanting to play to see what happens next. I dont subscribe to waifu culture but this game has me hooked and wanting to get to know more about each character.

-Alisa has a terrible intro and really put me off her even though she turns out fine once her and Rean talk things out.

-Machias and Jusis totally have the hots for each other I just know it.

-Havent been this hooked on a JRPG since Persona 4 Golden and that's a compliment of the highest order.
 

duckroll

Member
You wouldn't be saying that if you'd played 3rd. Incidentally, what did you think of the sewers of Heimdallr?

I don't think I would. I'm not saying the Schoolhouse itself has no significance, I'm saying that having to go in every month to explore a new floor and fight a random boss adds nothing. That is the part that blows. It's a time filler.

Re:sewers - Xenogears sewers are still the best JRPG sewers so far.
 

Begaria

Member
I agree with pretty much everything you said. I finished it last night. It'll be awhile before I get to Cold Steel 2.
 

Squire

Banned
I don't think I would. I'm not saying the Schoolhouse itself has no significance, I'm saying that having to go in every month to explore a new floor and fight a random boss adds nothing. That is the part that blows. It's a time filler.

Re:sewers - Xenogears sewers are still the best JRPG sewers so far.

You could cut out every instance of them going in except for the very last one and lose very little.

It didn't bother me, but you do have a point.
 

Aters

Member
Coming from the Crossbell arc, I was deeply disappointed by Cold Steel. Cold Steel 2 made me appreciate CS a bit more though, because CS2 hurt me even deeper.
 

PK Gaming

Member
I didn't really mind the schoolhouse too much.

Getting to unwind after a Free Day and messing around with whatever new quartz/equipment I picked from the previous Field Trip was definitely enjoyable. They were all pretty short too.
 
- (>_<) Millium is a shit-tier character. Delete pls. (0_0)

Agreed. She's such a terrible character, up there with Tatsu from Xenoblade X. Sadly, she doesn't get any better in CS2. I absolutely dreaded seeing her again but you make it so you barely see or hear Millium in CS2 so props to Falcom for at least letting me be able to do that.

The school festival was definitely one of the weaker parts of CS1 though, all that build-up for a concert that I couldn't give a shit about. They should've cut that instead Ymir.
 

Nyoro SF

Member
I didn't really mind the schoolhouse too much.

Getting to unwind after a Free Day and messing around with whatever new quartz/equipment I picked from the previous Field Trip was definitely enjoyable. They were all pretty short too.

Since the NPC students are a really fun part of the game, I kind of wish the game emphasized the quests around them more rather than relying on the schoolhouse, which essentially rewards you with nothing for all your effort; all story-based events around the schoolhouse happen regardless of your input and work.

Having to rearrange my quartz setups and essentially re-equip my characters to deal with my separated party returnees just to deal with an old schoolhouse that didn't matter was very unenjoyable.

Rest of the game is fun though!
 

duckroll

Member
What did you think of the characters overall?

More importantly what did you think of our lord and savior, Crow-sama.

MarySue-Tier: Lord Empress President Towa the Goddess

Top-Tier: Mint, Micht, Annabelle, Beryl, Patrick, Patiry, Mr Tiddles, Angelica

Acceptable-Animu-Tier - Laura, Emma, Jusis

Wind-Tier: Gaius

Arrest-Tier: Rex

Lame-Tier: Alisa

Delete-Tier: Millium

I-Can't-Believe-My-Lelouch-Clone-Is-This-Cute-Tier: Crow
 

Squire

Banned
I didn't really mind the schoolhouse too much.

Getting to unwind after a Free Day and messing around with whatever new quartz/equipment I picked from the previous Field Trip was definitely enjoyable. They were all pretty short too.

Yeah, I really do likevwhstvthru do for the pacing. If they weren't there i think the stretches of non-combat stuff would just be too long. And again, they're so short, you get just enough.
 

wmlk

Member
These two facts and my ho-hum response to SC are really making me unsure if I want to make space for this game at any point. I was told that Falcom did not "VC2" this game, but then I read stuff like this.
Yeah, people were recommending me to try FC and CS. I took a look at CS and just the art gave me that feeling. It's almost intolerable for me lol.

I'll try out FC first, and hopefully see what people are talking about.
 
It's a shit dungeon because the way it is presented in the game hurts the game. It makes the formula more obvious, it stretches the suspension of belief in how otherwise responsible characters in the should react, and it literally adds -nothing- to the setting, lore, or narrative of the game. It has zero purpose other than to waste 30-40 minutes of your time every chapter. The definition of real filler. On top of all that, it isn't even an interesting dungeon. The schoolhouse portions of the game is the equivalent of clipshow recap episodes in a long running anime series.

In Persona 3, the dungeon exists for the sake of gameplay. It's fun and dangerous, and works as a dungeon crawler independent of the plot, but also strongly supported by the plot. It's not about how long a dungeon is, it's about whether it has a proper place in the overall scope of the game. P3 is designed around the dungeon. CS1 is not designed around the Schoolhouse.
They could literally remove the Schoolhouse dungeon from the game, have more foreshadowing of it wanting to "test" Rean when the time is right in the prologue, and then leave the end part in the final chapter, and it would be EXACTLY the same.

I agree and disagree, the old school house is important as has already been said its just not told to you in this game that is a mistake on the games part and yes it IS filler the reason it doesn't bother me is because out of my 80+ hours in my first playthrough I spent maybe 4 hours doing the first 6 floors it wasn't big enough of time to actually detract from my enjoyment of the game and I didn't mind the formula the game was setting up, I know it bothers other people because it interrupts the flow of gameplay but I play games like these for the characters and story and while I spent 30-40 minutes doing every floor of the dungeon after leaving I would spend 2 hours walking around town and talking to everyone to see what new thing was going on for them, and this felt rewarding because there was constantly new things going on with these NPC's and it was actually interesting to see how their lives were unfolding day by day week by week, so when I'm spending that much time just talking to NPC's spending such a short amount of time doing the old school house never bothered me.

A lot of things you argued about the old school house apply to Tartarus as well. My problem with how Persona 3 did it was that it constantly set some specific yet completely unimportant floor to get to every new time you went into it each month, it didn't bother me for the first half of the game but the latter half and ultimately at the end of the game it was a huuuuuge amount of filler much more so in comparison to the ratio I mentioned above and it wouldn't bother me nearly as much if Persona 3's combat wasn't god awful since you can't control all of your characters (unless your playing the PSP version) its a huge detriment to the exploration aspect and can make it so even if you get a drop on an enemy you can get wiped out quickly if your teammates attack with things that can be reflected back on you and what not, its not challenging its just frustrating. I loved Persona 3 but its one of the worst games to go back and replay because the massive grind that Tartarus is.

I'm not trying to say that the Old Schoolhouse is a well designed dungeon or isn't filler, it not well designed and its clearly filler but its not forced on you so frequently that it becomes more of a chore then and a detractor from the rest of the game like it was in Persona 3.
 

jman2050

Member
The Old Schoolhouse is basically Falcom saying "Crap, we need something for the player to do inbetween spending 2 hours doing menial tasks for Towa and watching 2 hours of cutscenes in their next field study location" which is... fine I guess, at least from the perspective of trying to pace the tempo of the game but it really does end up being kind of a weak kludge that gets in the way of developing their world.

That aside, I really did like this game despite its weaknesses, and man does CS2 make me appreciate all the time it spent making me care about what was happening and the people involved.
 

Ultimadrago

Member
These two facts and my ho-hum response to SC are really making me unsure if I want to make space for this game at any point. I was told that Falcom did not "VC2" this game, but then I read stuff like this.

I'm still following the series, but the quality from First Chapter to Second Chapter to Cold Steel I it has just been a ready decline in overall story-telling thus far. I have heard, however, that Cold Steel II improves on the first! I'm keeping hope that it will be the quality boost needed.

Obviously I'll need to fit in The 3rd after Cold Steel I at this point, but that's fine.

Coming from the Crossbell arc, I was deeply disappointed by Cold Steel. Cold Steel 2 made me appreciate CS a bit more though, because CS2 hurt me even deeper.

I hear that Crossbell and Ao are the best in the series. If I ever finish those, I feel there will be a couple more that will be recommended over those and then a couple after that. The ride never ends! That said, you're the first person I've seen to say CS2 is worse than CS1 (unless you mean it hurt you in a different way).
 

Thoraxes

Member
That aside, I really did like this game despite its weaknesses, and man does CS2 make me appreciate all the time it spent making me care about what was happening and the people involved.

That's pretty much how I feel too. I ended up caring about what happened to all the characters in the next game a lot more than I think I would've, should CS not done what it did.

And for that, I really do love it.
 

BadWolf

Member
That's a longass time for a game where basically nothing happens until the last 2 hours of the game. Mind you, that's not really a knock on the game, I liked most of it, but yeah it's a game with a ton of bloat.

The actual narrative of the game is intentional a whole bunch of nothing until the very end, and the ending itself is a huge cliffhanger that resolves -nothing-.

Pretty much my feelings after finishing TITS, and why I have little desire to play the sequel.
 
I'm glad you enjoyed it and I hope this thread introduces more people to this amazing series.

I won't agree that the story was a lot of nothing though. Character development is extremely important in both this and CS2.
 
That's pretty much how I feel too. I ended up caring about what happened to all the characters in the next game a lot more than I think I would've, should CS not done what it did.

And for that, I really do love it.

I completely agree which is why I think that some of the more negative elements that are frequently brought up about the first game (the pacing and the old school house) do more harm then intended since I've seen many posts that say they don't even want to try the games because of how these negative elements are being discussed (generally hated on, hard at least in the original CS topic XD) and I think that is a huge determent to the games because what they are doing is unique and interesting and instead of the discussion generally being about that it always seems to loop around to how slow the plot progresses or how un-fun the old school house is when the rest of the game is just amazing and (at least for the pacing) if CS1 didn't do that it would have ultimately not had the same kind of impact that it did at the end.

It's apart of what makes the game truly special and its really hard to explain that to people without posting major spoilers and ruining things for them, and its easy for people to see that the storyline is slow or the dungeons suck and just instantly turn their mind off to the game which they absolutely should not do. I know people don't mean to actually hurt peoples opinion of the game but the amount of people I've seen flat out state they don't want to even give the games a shot because of these things they've read really bothers me since they end up missing out on something truly special.
 
It's a shit dungeon because the way it is presented in the game hurts the game. It makes the formula more obvious, it stretches the suspension of belief in how otherwise responsible characters in the should react, and it literally adds -nothing- to the setting, lore, or narrative of the game. It has zero purpose other than to waste 30-40 minutes of your time every chapter. The definition of real filler. On top of all that, it isn't even an interesting dungeon. The schoolhouse portions of the game is the equivalent of clipshow recap episodes in a long running anime series.

In Persona 3, the dungeon exists for the sake of gameplay. It's fun and dangerous, and works as a dungeon crawler independent of the plot, but also strongly supported by the plot. It's not about how long a dungeon is, it's about whether it has a proper place in the overall scope of the game. P3 is designed around the dungeon. CS1 is not designed around the Schoolhouse.
They could literally remove the Schoolhouse dungeon from the game, have more foreshadowing of it wanting to "test" Rean when the time is right in the prologue, and then leave the end part in the final chapter, and it would be EXACTLY the same.

You know what? I like this idea. A ton.

Dungeon design is not amongst Falcom's strengths (and if it was few would notice anyways sadly).

I'm still following the series, but the quality from First Chapter to Second Chapter to Cold Steel I it has just been a ready decline in overall story-telling thus far. I have heard, however, that Cold Steel II improves on the first! I'm keeping hope that it will be the quality boost needed.

Obviously I'll need to fit in The 3rd after Cold Steel I at this point, but that's fine.



I hear that Crossbell and Ao are the best in the series. If I ever finish those, I feel there will be a couple more that will be recommended over those and then a couple after that. The ride never ends! That said, you're the first person I've seen to say CS2 is worse than CS1 (unless you mean it hurt you in a different way).

CS2 is pretty much everything CS1 did right, fixes almost everythign CS1 got wrong, and only got wrong what CS1 got right by having Cedric's and Nord's field themes changed.

Even Millium doesn't suck ass any more.
They got a new lolibait character to suck ass in her stead. :p
 

Ralemont

not me
I think I'm about 15 hours in. I like combat more than Trails in the Sky, but most of the characters are kinda boring. I like Jusis and Fie, but everyone else is pretty shallow. I know it's a long game so that will change, but I can't help but compare the cast to something like Persona, wherein the dynamic between characters is more interesting. Everyone in CS just spends all their time being really nice to each other or apologizing for unimportant misunderstandings. It's really bland.

Also, is there any reason to keep fishing?
 

Eylos

Banned
i like millium i laughed a lot when everybody is discussing things and her line was:

"?????"

and one of the best scenes in CS2 i think its from her.
 
It shouldn't, despite minor pacing problems (its all character development, which is why I never got the hate, its not like its filler content it just takes its time developing the main characters and the NPC's) the story is fantastic and has a legit payoff in the end. It's also got one of the best OST's in recent memory, one of the most fun turn based battle systems I've ever played, and truly great characters and amazing world development. Erebonia feels like a real place you could go to and real people you could meet.

I was pretty underwhelmed with the finale and reveals at the end. It didn't help that one of them was pretty predictable coming off the "Trails in the Sky" games and seeing the game's opening movie.

I agree that it doesn't feel like filler content. The focus on different characters in Class VII for each chapter leading up to the finale was really well handled, and the field trips served as a great excuse to visit locations and learn about the present (and past) of the world.

Good world building isn't exactly something you can measure quantitatively, mind, I've played other RPGs that build more believable worlds but for completely different reasons.

CS2 is pretty much everything CS1 did right, fixes almost everythign CS1 got wrong, and only got wrong what CS1 got right by having Cedric's and Nord's field themes changed.

The pacing is painfully slow in the beginning and there are moments in the game that feel like an exercise in time wasting -- you're usually spurred on to play for reasons but not because what you're doing at the moment is interesting.

I guess it depends on what you really value in an RPG. I'd consider the changing of a couple of field themes trivial and not on the same level of importance as something like level design or boss design, or balancing etc etc.
 
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