Mac OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion

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Utako said:
O rly, is that the distinction? I actually thought this happened with Lion.

If that is the case, carry on Apple. Upgrade your machines people, anyone can save up for something better over 6 years. Your current jalopies will probably net a couple hundred on the second-hand market as well.
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I figure if you own a MacBook 5,1 released in Fall 08, and this is the last OS it can take, you should be up to date till Summer 13, and if you had saved 92¢ per day you would have enough to buy a brand new top-end MacBook* then. Seriously, less than a cup of coffee.

*the line no longer exists, but you can get a comparable Air for about the same.
 
What I think the Growl team needs to do is work WITH Mountain Lion and bring Notification Center notifications to apps that don't support them.

They're already on the App Store and have a license so they'll be allowed to support notifications. So what they should do is have an option for Mountain Lion to send all Growl notifications into NC. With a bit of work they could even make them distinguish each other by app in the list.

This would be the best idea to go with. In fact, just make the Notifications Center option a separate Growl style so we can continue using older style Growl notifications for apps like Bowtie and other iTunes "What's currently playing" apps, but use the NC version for other apps.

Hear me, Growl team? Don't lose heart! Since not all apps will support NC, this will be your chance to help get them into the next generation by bridging the gap!

I'll still be using Growl for certain things like Hardware Growler (Since it doesn't make much sense to queue those notifications in a center. Who cares if I disconnected my USB drive 5 hours ago? That's only needed in the moment, not later on.) but I will embrace Notification Center. So having both work together would be a perfect harmony.
 
anyone try 10.8 w/ Adobe Creative Suite?

mirroring my Mac screen to my 40" HDTV to use Photoshop w/ a Wacom tablet sounds pretty nice. I use a 27" iMac though and I'm thinking it might look too blurry going down to 1080p.
 
Tried out Messages extensively, worked pretty much perfectly caring multiple conversations.

Had to make sure to set my 'ID' on iOS as my @me.com email and not my number, as carrying on a conversation using both MBP and phone will show the receiver multiple dialog boxes.

Anyway, I'm enjoying it, and cannot wait to dig into Mountain Lion when I get the chance.
 
I think 2013 is going to be the year I upgrade from my 2009 MBP (Maybe xmas time if they do some redesigns or something).

It's still going along pretty well especially after putting some ram in and upping the HDD. I thought about upgrading this year but the iPad, iPhone 5 and maybe vita are my electronic purchases for this year.
 
Jasoco said:
Actually, Lion went Intel only. It still supported 32 bit as long as it was a Core2Duo or higher. Mountain Lion is going 64 bit only which now drops support for early C2D that couldn't boot into a 64 bit kernel.
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The older Core 2 Duo Macs had a strange quirk where the processor was 64 bit, but the firmware was 32 bit. It was part of the transition to Intel, because Apple jumped into Intel just as they were starting to mainstream 64 bit chips (The original "Core Duo" was 32 bit, and I guess the machines were engineered around that.) I'm pretty sure Lion runs in 32 bit kernel mode on those machines.
 
shantyman said:
No, it runs fine on (at the very least) MBPs introduced in October of 2008.
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I certainly hope you're right. I could easily afford to get another Apple laptop. But I don't see the point if the one I'm using works fine and serves my needs

I'm curious how long Apple will support 2011 MBP's running Lion?
 
Sobriquet said:
No. Late 08 MBPs (the first unibodies) are fine.
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Hope you're right. Again, I don't even know if I'll upgrade to ML. I'm more concerned if Apple will patch/upgrade Lion's security after ML is released. They certainly won't be supporting it for as long as Microsoft has been supporting Windows XP security. LOL!
 
Is there a way to get Messages to work with Growl? It would be nice to know if the message I got is urgent by having a quick glance at it...
 
Kind of a sidenote, but Airplay in 10.8 got me thinking:

Just think how big the update to the Apple TV 2 is going to be. From an A4 processor, to an A6. Single core to Quad core. I don't know. I guess my point is, there is going to be a lot of new things that we'll be able to do with the Apple TV 2, if Apple goes down that route.
 
Mr. Wonderful said:
Kind of a sidenote, but Airplay in 10.8 got me thinking:

Just think how big the update to the Apple TV 2 is going to be. From an A4 processor, to an A6. Single core to Quad core. I don't know. I guess my point is, there is going to be a lot of new things that we'll be able to do with the Apple TV 2, if Apple goes down that route.
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I think it will be an A5. A5 can output 1080p.
 
Vilix said:
Hope you're right. Again, I don't even know if I'll upgrade to ML. I'm more concerned if Apple will patch/upgrade Lion's security after ML is released. They certainly won't be supporting it for as long as Microsoft has been supporting Windows XP security. LOL!
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Snow Leopard got a security update earlier this month, which was the third or fourth since Lion came out. Since the last one I can see for Leopard came out shortly before Lion, it looks like they're supported until they're two generations old, but maybe that will change if they're updating every year now.
 
So much better than the old Software Update system which took forever to check for updates.

Gghxs.png


BOmyn.png
 
Finally got around to installing ML, I think it may run even smoother than Snow Leopard did. Still deficient in some areas, but considering it is still months away from release, and Apple typically releases old builds for preview, I have high hopes.

RSS however is completely missing from Mail, and Safari which sucks cause I used them with automator. =/

Jasoco: First party apps, mostly yes. Third party - who knows, probably not.
 
Jasoco said:
So is Mountain Lion stable enough for normal use right now?
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I'd imagine it is. I mean, when was the last time you heard of someone losing everything due to a developer preview build of OS X.

Oh and thanks for the screens giga, looks beautiful.

PS. I wish I knew the @me.com/imessage handles of some of you mac/apple regulars. I still haven't tried that group chat feature, does that work for iMessage?
 
Jasoco said:
Actually, Lion went Intel only. It still supported 32 bit as long as it was a Core2Duo or higher. Mountain Lion is going 64 bit only which now drops support for early C2D that couldn't boot into a 64 bit kernel.
Click to expand...

No. Lion is 64bit only in that it couldn't not run on any CD machines that didn't have 64-bit capability (All gen 1 intel macs sans Mac Pros, whose Xeons did have the 64-bit extentions). Also, Snow Leopard was the first Intel-Only OSX.

Haven't heard what the deal with Mountain Lion and how it relates to the early C2Ds is, though.
 
I mainly ask because I was wondering exactly what was changed under the hood. ML seems to mostly be front-end changes with new apps that wouldn't affect anything.

Most of my apps would probably run perfectly fine. I guess the only curiosities would be DropBox (They had trouble last time because of changes in the Finder) and Parallels (Which works fine with normal Lion.) I've had PhotoShop CS3 on this machine through 3 different OS updates and it hasn't broken once so I can't see ML breaking it either. Other than that the only other apps I use are Chrome (I might actually switch to Safari with ML) and Plex/Nine which doesn't seem to be that integrated and reliant on system stuff.

I guess I could do the same thing I always do. Install onto a separate partition and migrate stuff over piece by piece until something breaks.

Not a big deal though because of how soon it's coming out. Amazing to think it's already coming in the Summer. I like these yearly updates again. Feels like the early 2000's again.
 
Jasoco said:
So is Mountain Lion stable enough for normal use right now?
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I've been using it for the past day or so and it seems just as stable as Lion ever was, certainly more stable than the Lion DP. As I said though I've only been using it a short time but I've not had anything crash or freak out on me. I think you're right about it being mostly front-end stuff.
 
edgefusion said:
I've been using it for the past day or so and it seems just as stable as Lion ever was, certainly more stable than the Lion DP. As I said though I've only been using it a short time but I've not had anything crash or freak out on me. I think you're right about it being mostly front-end stuff.
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When Snow Leopard was in Development I was able to switch full time and nothing broke because it was mainly just additions to Leopard. With Lion I couldn't and just kept it for testing while waiting for my third party apps to update. I can't see much being changed with ML but then again who knows what was done under the hood. Do I really want to keep up with all the DP's that will come out over the next few months or just wait? It's not like I NEED any of the stuff it has right now. Eh. Whatever.
 
Jasoco said:
When Snow Leopard was in Development I was able to switch full time and nothing broke because it was mainly just additions to Leopard. With Lion I couldn't and just kept it for testing while waiting for my third party apps to update. I can't see much being changed with ML but then again who knows what was done under the hood. Do I really want to keep up with all the DP's that will come out over the next few months or just wait? It's not like I NEED any of the stuff it has right now. Eh. Whatever.
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Same here :/
 
Jasoco said:
When Snow Leopard was in Development I was able to switch full time and nothing broke because it was mainly just additions to Leopard. With Lion I couldn't and just kept it for testing while waiting for my third party apps to update. I can't see much being changed with ML but then again who knows what was done under the hood. Do I really want to keep up with all the DP's that will come out over the next few months or just wait? It's not like I NEED any of the stuff it has right now. Eh. Whatever.
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Just install it on an external, or split your disk. I think ML has more under the hood changes than people think. Just because they have only shown user features doesn't mean there hasn't been many changes. It is really fast and much better at memory management than Lion, and that doesn't come from simply adding a few user facing apps from iOS.
 
StopMakingSense said:
No. Lion is 64bit only in that it couldn't not run on any CD machines that didn't have 64-bit capability (All gen 1 intel macs sans Mac Pros, whose Xeons did have the 64-bit extentions). Also, Snow Leopard was the first Intel-Only OSX.

Haven't heard what the deal with Mountain Lion and how it relates to the early C2Ds is, though.
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After having a brain fart when reading the article I posted this morning, the only thing I've seen regarding ML not running on a MBP is in relation to the first model with the Core Duo and the Radeon X1600.

ML is going to be a full x64 OS, and the Core Duo didn't support x64, which is why you can't run x64 Windows on it.

The Core2Duo, which is the chip I have in my MBP, does support x64 (posting this from X64 Windows 7).

I'd like to get a hold of the developer preview and try to install it on my MBP to see if it'll work. It'll either say no (which is no big deal), install (which would be ok), or mess up my computer (which I want to reinstall OS X anyways).
 
Is it true airplay mirroring will only run at 15 fps? Bascailly making it useless for video. That can't be true right? Because it isn't like that for ipad.
 
NekoFever said:
Do you get notifications from the App Store for all app updates or just updates from Apple?
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Both.

edgefusion said:
Could you explain? Is this from an article somewhere or your own observation?
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http://www.macworld.com/article/165460/2012/02/mountain_lion_what_you_need_to_know.html

That Apple press release we mentioned above boasts that the developer preview contains more than 100 new features, though we haven’t gone and counted each ourselves. With Lion, Apple released a detailed list of all new features; we probably can expect to see something similar in the months to come.

However, Apple did provide us with a few new Mountain Lion features without going into greater detail. These include: Backup to multiple disks, new graphics infrastructure for OpenGL/OpenCL, improved privacy in Safari, a Dashboard Widget browser, form input in Preview, inline find in Mail, virtual memory performance optimizations, OS X updates in the Mac App Store, improved smart card support, search suggestions in calendar, drag and drop files in screen sharing, launchpad search, swipe between pages in Mac App Store, encrypted backups, kernel ASLR, and improved gesture APIs
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FWIW, it does feel like 10.8 is slightly faster than 10.7. That just might be quicker animations or a fresh install though.
 
Cheebo said:
Is it true airplay mirroring will only run at 15 fps? Bascailly making it useless for video. That can't be true right? Because it isn't like that for ipad.
Click to expand...
Where'd you hear this? There's no way that's true. I mean, they demo'd it with video, so if that were true they would have demo'd it with something else..
 
Sentry said:
Where'd you hear this? There's no way that's true. I mean, they demo'd it with video, so if that were true they would have demo'd it with something else..
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Someone brought it up in this thread earlier and then I saw someone say the same thing in a comment at Cult of Mac. Has anyone with a dev preview tried this? I really hope it can't be true.
 
edgefusion said:
Could you explain? Is this from an article somewhere or your own observation?
Click to expand...

My own observations at the moment mostly.

I think giga is right, the transitions seem more buffered, however I think it is better at saving states and allocating memory. Mail, Terminal, Calendar, etc use maybe 85~90% of the memory that Lion uses from what I have experienced today. It makes sense too, some of the apps have been streamlined and paired down into the Notes and Reminders apps. I'm testing it with 2GB ram, and it feels much more comfortable on ML than it ever did on Lion with that little ram. A Snow Leopard level of comfort.
 
All this talk of it being faster than Lion makes me want to try it out. My 2010 MBP is just not the same since upgrading to Lion :( So tempted to go back to Snow Leopard but Lion has features I don't want to lose.
 
Jasoco said:
When Snow Leopard was in Development I was able to switch full time and nothing broke because it was mainly just additions to Leopard. With Lion I couldn't and just kept it for testing while waiting for my third party apps to update. I can't see much being changed with ML but then again who knows what was done under the hood. Do I really want to keep up with all the DP's that will come out over the next few months or just wait? It's not like I NEED any of the stuff it has right now. Eh. Whatever.
Click to expand...

I wonder if it's going to be like Lion's reveal was, where we got a basic outline early on, and then a full-blown reveal at WWDC with tons of features we didn't know about.
 
ivedoneyourmom said:
My own observations at the moment mostly.

I think giga is right, the transitions seem more buffered, however I think it is better at saving states and allocating memory. Mail, Terminal, Calendar, etc use maybe 85~90% of the memory that Lion uses from what I have experienced today. It makes sense too, some of the apps have been streamlined and paired down into the Notes and Reminders apps. I'm testing it with 2GB ram, and it feels much more comfortable on ML than it ever did on Lion with that little ram. A Snow Leopard level of comfort.
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This would be great if true. More RAM for important things.

I wonder if the OS will cache more RAM for OS things in Mountain Lion, seeing how we're so close to cheap 16GB being the norm?

Edits: Whoops. Double post.
 
Best new feature of this OS is that Mac apps now share names with their iOS counterparts, hopefully putting an end to the "iThing" software naming convention for good. All they need to do now is rename iPhoto to Photos and stuff like that.

But it got me thinking... anyone else think that Mountain Lion and its renaming conventions to put Mac apps in line with their iOS equivalents will finally signal the end of the iTunes all-in-one database scenario?

Like, your mobile app updating will be moved to the App Store, movie/TV content will be separated into a Videos app (one that replaces QuickTime Player) like it was in iOS 5, iTunes will be renamed Music and hold only your music and the music store, tone store moved into Contacts, etc?

Heck, the sync feature is becoming less and less relevant thanks to iCloud pretty much taking care of EVERYTHING else and could probably just become a background process accessible in System Preferences now.

I just get this feeling that Apple is moving to decentralize the iDevice experience from iTunes, since it's getting a bit bloated, even in OS X.

If we see Apple move the movie and TV store into the Videos app in iOS and throws music and tones stores in the Music and Phone apps to kill the iTunes Store app in iOS, that would pretty much confirms the hypothesis.

Of course, the Windows version will still be a bloated mess by necessity, as Microsoft will likely try to shut Apple out of the Windows 8 Metro ecosystem in favor of their own offerings.

I never used to be part of this bandwagon, but let the dissection of iTunes finally begin!
 
Terrell said:
Anyone else think that Mountain Lion will finally signal the end of the iTunes all-in-one database scenario?

Like, your mobile app updating will be moved to the App Store, video content will be separated into another app (one that replaces QuickTime Player) like it was in iOS 5, etc?

Heck, the sync feature is becoming less and less relevant thanks to iCloud pretty much taking care of EVERYTHING else and could probably just become a background process accessible in System Preferences now.

I just get this feeling that Apple is moving to decentralize the iDevice experience from iTunes, since it's getting a bit bloated, even in OS X.

If we see Apple move the movie and TV store into the Videos app in iOS and throws music and tones stores in the Music and Phone apps to kill the iTunes Store app in iOS, that would pretty much confirms the hypothesis.

Of course, the Windows version will still be a bloated mess by necessity, as Microsoft will likely try to shut Apple out of the Windows 8 Metro ecosystem in favor of their own offerings.

I never used to be part of this bandwagon, but let the dissection of iTunes finally begin!
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I've been calling for it for a few years now, however I think it is unlikely at the moment. Apple is still too heavily invested in iTunes for Windows, and will not break feature parity. I think we still have a few more years before iTunes will be broken down to its constituent components.
 
ivedoneyourmom said:
I've been calling for it for a few years now, however I think it is unlikely at the moment. Apple is still too heavily invested in iTunes for Windows, and will not break feature parity. I think we still have a few more years before iTunes will be broken down to its constituent components.
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Well, at this point, I'm of the opinion that Apple would rather improve the experience for Mac users, since the Windows client has always been an uphill battle for them anyways. With iCloud being on Windows, as well, iTunes for Windows becomes less needed and less desirable, anyways.

Also, thanks to things like Windows Migration Assistant being able to parse an iTunes library on Windows into its respective new homes on a Mac when users switch platforms, there's no reason not to. When migration was a manual procedure, yes, it was unfeasible.

And Windows users can still get their feature parity... just with a bloated barely-functional all-in-one app as per usual. ;)
 
Liu Kang Baking A Pie said:
There's no reason to break apart iTunes. People use their iOS devices and iCloud for these things now.
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iCloud can't sync my DVD rips. It's also a bloated mess, and it doesn't adequately represent all the features it has, while duplicating features found in other apps that could be rebranded as their iOS counterpart, bringing some more UI synchronicity.

Why do I have 2 apps that play video content when I only need one? Cuz of iTunes.
Why do I have books on my computer that I can't READ on my computer? Cuz of iTunes.
Why can't I assign ringtones to my contacts from my computer, where it'd be MUCH faster? Cuz of iTunes.

Why doesn't Mountain Lion have exact app parity with iOS, which Apple seems to want to achieve? Cuz of iTunes.

Seriously, when iTunes is getting in the way of Apple's own ambitions for their OS, you know they're discussing its demise.
 
Terrell said:
Why do I have books on my computer that I can't READ on my computer? Cuz of iTunes.
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Because reading books on a computer sucks.

How many more years of wacky conspiracy theories about Apple do we have to suffer from you guys?

I'm sure they have ideas and plans for what to do with the many parts of iTunes, but none of us know them, and any design choices they make wouldn't be a result of something as simple as "but guys, I can't assign ringtones in iTunes!"
 
Terrell said:
Best new feature of this OS is that Mac apps now share names with their iOS counterparts, hopefully putting an end to the "iThing" software naming convention for good. All they need to do now is rename iPhoto to Photos and stuff like that.
Click to expand...

It's not nearly perfect though. I have no idea what they should do with video chat, but I don't think it belongs in the Messages app. Maybe stick it into the Facetime app? Currently, in Messages, if you want to do a Facetime chat, you can hit a button, and it launches the Facetime app. It doesn't do that for iChat style video chats though...those stay in the Messages app as sorta the legacy of iChat.

It may sound like nitpicking, and it probably is, but to me, the app name "Messages" doesn't sound like where I'd logically go to video chat if I were completely new to OS X.
 
So how about using my normal iCloud account on a downloaded version of ML (not from Apple!).

There are no checks or anything? I don't see how they could, but I'm being cautious
 
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