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[Terrell]

Because reading books on a computer sucks.

How many more years of wacky conspiracy theories about Apple do we have to suffer from you guys?

I'm sure they have ideas and plans for what to do with the many parts of iTunes, but none of us know them, and any design choices they make wouldn't be a result of something as simple as "but guys, I can't assign ringtones in iTunes!"

"You guys"? Dude, I typically agree with you 95% of the time. In fact, I even agreed with you on THIS VERY TOPIC a year ago.

But now things are lining up in a way that it finally makes sense to do so, and you label me a "conspiracy theorist", despite the fact I'm not discussing a conspiracy at all?

Ummmmmm... OK then.

It's not nearly perfect though. I have no idea what they should do with video chat, but I don't think it belongs in the Messages app. Maybe stick it into the Facetime app? Currently, in Messages, if you want to do a Facetime chat, you can hit a button, and it launches the Facetime app. It doesn't do that for iChat style video chats though...those stay in the Messages app as sorta the legacy of iChat.

It may sound like nitpicking, and it probably is, but to me, the app name "Messages" doesn't sound like where I'd logically go to video chat if I were completely new to OS X.

I agree with you. It's a problem with every IM client, though. Their naming is focused around what IM services USED to only be capable of: Instant Messaging. In Apple's own ecosystem, there's a natural move to FaceTime and iMessage and a depreciation of AIM account usage. It will remain in it for the legacy support, but I see most users transitioning to the messaging method that plays nice with their iOS devices, making it a non-issue in the long term. I only keep AIM for screen sharing, as setting it up outside of iChat can be a bit of a pain in the ass. Make that easier and I'll stop using it immediately.

 

[Blackhead]

I'm noticing disappearing windows of out-of-focus apps and broken desktop replacement programs (Earthdesk is a screen over my desktop now, instead of replacing the background picture). Is there a quick fix for those?


Also why is Apple still doing this:

?

 

[edgefusion]

Launchpad still doesn't save the positions of my icons properly. I spent 10 minutes last night arranging everything nicely, only to come back this morning to find half the icons are back where they used to be. And it's not like Launchpad just didn't save my changes, some of the icons are where I moved them to and others are back where they were before or in a different place entirely. It's like a 2 year old came along and messed up all the magnetic letters on the fridge, only the 2 year old has OCD or something and made sure they were all aligned to a grid. :/

 

[giga]

Also why is Apple still doing this:

?

They stopped bundling Java in 10.7. Not bundling third party components (such as Flash or Java) ensures that users will get the latest and most secure version when they need it.

 

[Blackhead]

They stopped bundling Java in 10.7. Not bundling third party components (such as Flash or Java) ensures that users will get the latest and most secure version when they need it.

I get the no bundling of plugins. I'm wondering why Quicklook, a core OSX service, is still 32-bit and still relies on Java.

 

[giga]

I get the no bundling of plugins. I'm wondering why Quicklook, a core OSX service, is still 32-bit and still relies on Java.

My Quick Look helper is 64-bit. Maybe you installed a 32-bit quick look plugin or are trying to QL on something that requires Java.

file /Volumes/10.8/System/Library/Frameworks/QuickLook.framework/Versions/A/QuickLook

/Volumes/10.8/System/Library/Frameworks/QuickLook.framework/Versions/A/QuickLook: Mach-O universal binary with 2 architectures
/Volumes/10.8/System/Library/Frameworks/QuickLook.framework/Versions/A/QuickLook (for architecture i386): Mach-O dynamically linked shared library i386
/Volumes/10.8/System/Library/Frameworks/QuickLook.framework/Versions/A/QuickLook (for architecture x86_64): Mach-O 64-bit dynamically linked shared library x86_64

 

[Fuu]

I'm not certain if it was discussed in the thread but does anyone know how is the native fullscreen situation while using dual monitors in Mountain Lion? Does it still work like in Lion where the second display just shows a blank screen?

 

[SeanR1221]

I just had a great idea. I plan on putting a 32" tv in my office when I move. I'll definitely have to hook an Apple TV up to it and mirror content. So excited.

 

[Treefingers]

So how about using my normal iCloud account on a downloaded version of ML (not from Apple!).

There are no checks or anything? I don't see how they could, but I'm being cautious

No there are no checks.

 

[Blackhead]

My Quick Look helper is 64-bit. Maybe you installed a 32-bit quick look plugin or are trying to QL on something that requires Java.
http://i.imgur.com/SkYmV.png

Yeah that's it. I got confused because I assumed .gifs were not supported by quicklook but I've been using a plugin for that

 

[Treefingers]

Man, Reminders looks like total ass. I was actually fine with the new iCal look but man it's getting ridiculous.

 

[mescalineeyes]

I'm not certain if it was discussed in the thread but does anyone know how is the native fullscreen situation while using dual monitors in Mountain Lion? Does it still work like in Lion where the second display just shows a blank screen?

yup.

 

[Fuu]

yup.

:/ Thanks. I updated VLC to 2.0 and it implemented Lion's fullscreen so I was wondering about Mountain. Thankfully it's possible to uncheck "Use the native fullscreen mode on OS X Lion" in preferences so I can still use it like in the previous versions.

 

[mrkgoo]

They stopped bundling Java in 10.7. Not bundling third party components (such as Flash or Java) ensures that users will get the latest and most secure version when they need it.

Flash informs me of updates. How do I update java?

 

[giga]

Flash informs me of updates. How do I update java?

Software update.

http://support.apple.com/kb/DL1421?viewlocale=en_US&locale=en_US

 

[mrkgoo]

Software update.

http://support.apple.com/kb/DL1421?viewlocale=en_US&locale=en_US

Yeah, I guess I forgot about that. So if Apple aren't bundling it, why is it still being updated via Software update? Or is it pointing to something else? I remember thinking about this when that update came out.


What happens in mountain lion, if there is no software update?

I guess it's a bit like x11, which will no longer be bundled in ML? I guess I just have to get used to updating that stuff on my own (I already use the latest version of xquartz).

 

[giga]

Yeah, I guess I forgot about that. So if Apple aren't bundling it, why is it still being updated via Software update? Or is it pointing to something else? I remember thinking about this when that update came out.


What happens in mountain lion, if there is no software update?

I guess it's a bit like x11, which will no longer be bundled in ML? I guess I just have to get used to updating that stuff on my own (I already use the latest version of xquartz).

Software update is still in 10.8--it's part of the app store now.

Apple is handling Java SE 6 until Oracle releases Jave SE 7. After that, you'll get updates from Oracle instead of Apple.

http://www.macrumors.com/2010/11/12/apple-and-oracle-announce-plans-for-openjdk-java-implementation/

 

[mrkgoo]

Software update is still in 10.8--it's part of the app store now.

Apple is handling Java SE 6 until Oracle releases Jave SE 7. After that, you'll get updates from Oracle instead of Apple.

http://www.macrumors.com/2010/11/12/apple-and-oracle-announce-plans-for-openjdk-java-implementation/

Ah, I see.

Yeah, I saw that Ml linked the Mac App Store from Software update, but I figured it wouldn't have stuff like Java updates in the app store.

I know this has been discussed, but what I would like to see is a little differentiation of iTunes. I mean, we all know it's a bit of a silly mess to have it all in there and that it,s because of windows.

 

[Buddha Beam]

All these iOS features make me think that in 2014 we'll see OS XI released across all Apple platforms.
I bet that's when we see touchscreen Mac Books iMacs and Cinema displays, too.

Not sure I like where this is all headed, to be honest.

I'll still get 10.8, though. As long as it's more stable than 10.7 which is kind of a buggy piece of shit on my machine for whatever reason.

 

[renitou]

I bet that's when we see touchscreen Mac Books iMacs and Cinema displays, too.

Don't hold your breath on that future.

 

[mrkgoo]

No. Late 08 MBPs (the first unibodies) are fine.

My impression is that early 2008 MacBook Pros (non-unibody) will also be fine. Maybe even late 2007.

lion is slightly slower on my 08 MBP. Reports are saying MLis a bit snappier, so I'm hoping there will some gains in performance.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

All these iOS features make me think that in 2014 we'll see OS XI released across all Apple platforms.
I bet that's when we see touchscreen Mac Books iMacs and Cinema displays, too.

Not sure I like where this is all headed, to be honest.

This line of thinking is odd. Just because they added Notifications and Reminders doesn't mean that they want to merge all of their work.

And even if they are going to do that, why wouldn't you like it? It seems like a lot of people have chimed in in this thread to say "I don't like it" but no one has good reasons, so it feels like a bunch of irrational fear of change.

If they wanted it all to be the same thing, they would have made it all the same thing five years ago instead of making iOS.

 

[DarkChronic]

Yikes.

So I'm still running Leopard, and wanted to finally make the jump to Lion. Turns out I need to buy Snow Leopard first before I can install Lion.

So I called the Apple Store and they told me they had copies of Snow Leopard in stock. I drove over, and surprise surprise, they don't stock them anymore.

Ended up ordering Snow Leopard online, need to wait a few days, install that, and then I need to spend another $30 to get Lion.

Dammit.

 

[KtSlime]

This line of thinking is odd. Just because they added Notifications and Reminders doesn't mean that they want to merge all of their work.

And even if they are going to do that, why wouldn't you like it? It seems like a lot of people have chimed in in this thread to say "I don't like it" but no one has good reasons, so it feels like a bunch of irrational fear of change.

If they wanted it all to be the same thing, they would have made it all the same thing five years ago instead of making iOS.

In reality they really are the same OS, just different builds with a different user land.

Their kernel is likely identical with some different tweaked parameters to better suit the platform they are built on. The BSD personality which includes filesystem and networking code is probably mostly the same. Most all the BSD utilities are simple stripped from iOS simply because they aren't needed there. OpenGL, OpenCL, NSObject, Code Data, Core Animation, Core Foundation, Code Image, Core Services, Core Text, Core Video, etc are all likely just different builds from the same code, it wouldn't surprise me that most everything below the UIKit/AppKit divide are all stored in the same repo. Even much of the Cocoa and CocoaTouch are similar, and as Apple depreciates some older OS X APIs and shares user land app assets those become more similar.

I don't think they will ever release a unified OS so long as the architectures are different. It doesn't make sense to bundle software that cannot run on a device so limited in resources.

I can however see that it could be possible for Apple to release a specification for a super fat app bundle in the distant future, apps that runs on iOS/OS X. But even that in the near future is very unlikely because the cultures between the iOS and the OS X app stores are worlds apart.

tl;dr Apple shares code, art, and ideas between projects, iOS and OS X are probably 90% identical in source, but it is stupid to think they would be distributed as a single binary like MS plans to do for Win8.

 

[mescalineeyes]

All these iOS features make me think that in 2014 we'll see OS XI released across all Apple platforms.
I bet that's when we see touchscreen Mac Books iMacs and Cinema displays, too.

ok, for everyone who believes there will ever be touchscreen Macs:

Raise you arm to the height of your head. Use your left arm because using your right arm might people think you don't like jews. Got that? Good. Now hold it for 10 minutes.

Now answer me this question: Do you really think there will be touchscreen Macs?

 

[upandaway]

ok, for everyone who believes there will ever be touchscreen Macs:

Raise you arm to the height of your head. Use your left arm because using your right arm might people think you don't like jews. Got that? Good. Now hold it for 10 minutes.

Now answer me this question: Do you really think there will be touchscreen Macs?

Man I remember that crazy patent from a while back about a iMac which tilts 50 degrees and down to enable touch mode. So silly.

 

[Soulscribe]

I need that Notification Center all over me. I almost caved in and bought a developer membership. I'm already enrolled in the iOS developer program so I didn't wanna shell out another $100 for a four month headstart. Sigh.

 

[mescalineeyes]

I need that Notification Center all over me. I almost caved in and bought a developer membership. I'm already enrolled in the iOS developer program so I didn't wanna shell out another $100 for a four month headstart. Sigh.

you don't need to.

 

[mrkgoo]

ok, for everyone who believes there will ever be touchscreen Macs:

Raise you arm to the height of your head. Use your left arm because using your right arm might people think you don't like jews. Got that? Good. Now hold it for 10 minutes.

Now answer me this question: Do you really think there will be touchscreen Macs?

You're thinking under the notion that a Mac will always remain the same form factor.

 

[Soulscribe]

you don't need to.

I gotcha. I'm just not resourceful enough for that I suppose. No idea where to look.

 

[mrkgoo]

I gotcha. I'm just not resourceful enough for that I suppose. No idea where to look.

I thought he meant that developer accounts are free, with the money only required if you're actually submitting apps? Otherwise you can install for free? I dunno.

 

[mescalineeyes]

I thought he meant that developer accounts are free, with the money only required if you're actually submitting apps? Otherwise you can install for free? I dunno.

you only get access to preview software with a paid account, but beta versions of OS X don't require any sort of key or machine authentication like iOS betas do, so if you happen to come across it somewhere, you can go ahead and install it.

You're thinking under the notion that a Mac will always remain the same form factor.

The last meaningful new form factor in the history of Personal Computing, save the tablet, was the laptop.
It's just not very likely any meaningful changes will happen in the future.
But yes, of course there are form factors that would obviously work better with touch screens, but as far as seeing the current Macs go down this route I am highly sceptical.

 

[mrkgoo]

you only get access to preview software with a paid account, but beta versions of OS X don't require any sort of key or machine authentication like iOS betas do, so if you happen to come across it somewhere, you can go ahead and install it.

Ah, gotcha.

 

[Y2Kev]

Messages contains all the same internal materials that iChat did. They just added on stuff.

Except:

1. I can't view messages as just text. This actually hurts their readability for me.
2. I can't view messages by default in separate windows. I don't even see that option. If you attempt to pop out a message and then close the "message center," it closes both windows.
3. It autosaves all conversations and I can't find a way to disable that. This is a privacy concern of mine and should be an option.

I'll stick with iChat for now.

 

[Soulscribe]

I thought he meant that developer accounts are free, with the money only required if you're actually submitting apps? Otherwise you can install for free? I dunno.

Unfortunately the preview is for the 99$ developer enrollment only. Also I think the preview only includes the Notification center. Not too sure though.

 

[mescalineeyes]

Unfortunately the preview is for the 99$ developer enrollment only. Also I think the preview only includes the Notification center. Not too sure though.

it includes everything that was reported.
check your PMs.

 

[shantyman]

Really? I thought they dropped support for 08 MBPs.

I refuted that post by Vilix immediately after he posted it. This is the worst kind of FUD.

Hope you're right. Again, I don't even know if I'll upgrade to ML. I'm more concerned if Apple will patch/upgrade Lion's security after ML is released. They certainly won't be supporting it for as long as Microsoft has been supporting Windows XP security. LOL!

There is no hope. He is right.

 

[Treefingers]

There's no point in getting the preview just for notifications. All you get are software updates, mail, and calendar notifications, no apps support them. Not to mention it's pretty buggy at the moment.

 

[Tunic]

I would strongly recommend not paying the $99 for a developer account unless you are really a developer. The preview which is out is definitely in beta and comes with several bugs and issues. It is geared towards developers to test their apps with the new OS. If for some reason you really wanted to throw down $99 to play with the beta make sure to install it on an external hard drive so you don't completely destroy your Mac. But again, just stay away if you are not a developer.

 

[mescalineeyes]

I would strongly recommend not paying the $99 for a developer account unless you are really a developer. The preview which is out is definitely in beta and comes with several bugs and issues. It is geared towards developers to test their apps with the new OS. If for some reason you really wanted to throw down $99 to play with the beta make sure to install it on an external hard drive so you don't completely destroy your Mac. But again, just stay away if you are not a developer.

can not be stressed enough. it's really janky. stay away, it will sour your enjoyment of what will sure be a wonderful OS.

 

[Jasoco]

Just installed it. Probably won't stick with it permanently, just trying it out. (I made multiple clones beforehand. I'll just restore from the portable one) Some observations:

The swipe gesture to open Notifications is neat. You can either swipe from the right to open and close, or use a swipe from the left to close or you can just click outside the box or swipe to the right from anywhere. It's your choice. Really nice. It tells me Calendar says it's President's Day tomorrow.

Some of my gestures in Better Touch Tool don't work. And it crashed just now.

Parallels Service was placed in a folder called "Incompatible Applications". I wouldn't expect something integrated like that to work properly yet.

Hands Off! also complains about being on an unsupported version which is expected.

Notes did NOT show any of my notes at all. Is there something I have to do to get them to show up? It's weird because they show up on my iDevices and in Mail. They're all "On My Mac" so I don't know why.

The search box in LaunchPad works great and looks really nice and unobtrusive.

The FullScreen button is way too close to the Notifications button spacing-wise. It looks out of place.

And now back to Lion I go.

 

[EmSeta]

How does the two finger swipe for notifications work anyway? It's already assigned to scrolling in most applications.

 

[KtSlime]

How does the two finger swipe for notifications work anyway? It's already assigned to scrolling in most applications.

Start from the far right of the trackpad, pull left. If you have an iPad/iPhone/iPod, exactly the same way.

 

[MickD]

Is there a default twitter application I'm not seeing?

 

[KtSlime]

Is there a default twitter application I'm not seeing?

If you give System Preferences your twitter account information, apps that support Share Sheets such as Safari, Notes, Contacts, etc, can post to your twitter account, however if you want to read tweets you need to get a client or use twitter.com.

 

[MickD]

If you give System Preferences your twitter account information, apps that support Share Sheets such as Safari, Notes, Contacts, etc, can post to your twitter account, however if you want to read tweets you need to get a client or use twitter.com.

Ah yea, I did that. Thanks !

 

[Jasoco]

Well I'm back to Lion, but I guess a problem I now have is my Recovery HD is still set up with 10.8. I don't know how to get it back to the 10.7 recovery disk without reformatting the drive completely and reinstalling Lion. Any ideas how to get my recovery HD back to Lion? I mean it's not easy because the computer hides it somewhere you can't find it or access it normally. It's not like a normal partition and doesn't show up as a regular partition of my internal SSD in Disk Utility.

It's weird and strange. I wonder if running the Lion installer once but not installing it will work?

 

[Terrell]

Well I'm back to Lion, but I guess a problem I now have is my Recovery HD is still set up with 10.8. I don't know how to get it back to the 10.7 recovery disk without reformatting the drive completely and reinstalling Lion. Any ideas how to get my recovery HD back to Lion? I mean it's not easy because the computer hides it somewhere you can't find it or access it normally. It's not like a normal partition and doesn't show up as a regular partition of my internal SSD in Disk Utility.

It's weird and strange. I wonder if running the Lion installer once but not installing it will work?

Nope. The Recovery HD is created during the install process. You'll need to re-install Lion to have any hope of correcting this issue.

 

[Jasoco]

Nope. The Recovery HD is created during the install process. You'll need to re-install Lion to have any hope of correcting this issue.

No big deal. Now that I have everything back to normal I'll just run the Lion installer and migrate back a little later.

 

[Deleted member 22576]

Speak for yourself liu kang, but I would actually really like to read a book on a MBA with a theoretical retina display. It wouldn't be as natural as a tablet, but it wouldn't be awful. They should allow you to open iBooks on the Mac.