Mad Men - Season 4 - Sundays on AMC

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Cornballer said:
- First 30 second Season 5 promo

I don't think there's any new footage in there, but at least they're starting to ramp up the promotion for S5.
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I'm hyped as hell, but I really think it's weird that they are still trying to sell Don as some slick hero.

Maybe newcomers, or people that are only vaguely familiar with the character would still have that perception, but anyone that watches the show should know by know that he's just a douche.
 
Gunloc said:
I'm hyped as hell, but I really think it's weird that they are still trying to sell Don as some slick hero.

Maybe newcomers, or people that are only vaguely familiar with the character would still have that perception, but anyone that watches the show should know by know that he's just a douche.
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I don't see how you could enjoy this show if you see Don Draper as "just a douche." He's certainly not a hero but he's much more than what you're characterizing him as.
 
shadyspace said:
I don't see how you could enjoy this show if you see Don Draper as "just a douche." He's certainly not a hero but he's much more than what you're characterizing him as.
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Well, he's obviously has a lot of issues, but he's still a douche. One of my least favorite characters on the show now by far, I even prefer Pete to him currently, which is shocking.

Liu Kang Baking A Pie said:
This is why we can't have nice things. We're always trying to pigeonhole characters instead of letting them have flaws and unique situations. Don Draper is Don Draper.
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Yet, AMC's promo department is not really conveying that. They still trot him out like an icon of suave 60s cool, not the extremely distraught and self destructive man he currently is.

I'm not saying that they should get rid of him obviously, he's the center of the whole series, but that doesn't mean I have to like him. I enjoy the show despite his character, not because of it.
 
Gunloc said:
Yet, AMC's promo department is not really conveying that. They still trot him out like an icon of suave 60s cool, not the extremely distraught and self destructive man he currently is.

I'm not saying that they should get rid of him obviously, he's the center of the whole series, but that doesn't mean I have to like him. I enjoy the show despite his character, not because of it.
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AMC is run by idiots.

See: The Killing.
 
Gunloc said:
Yet, AMC's promo department is not really conveying that. They still trot him out like an icon of suave 60s cool, not the extremely distraught and self destructive man he currently is.

I'm not saying that they should get rid of him obviously, he's the center of the whole series, but that doesn't mean I have to like him. I enjoy the show despite his character, not because of it.
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It's a commercial, it's meant to lure in potential viewers, not reinforce the opinions of existing ones.

It's like The Sopranos - you entice them with a facade of glamor and scandal, then blindside them with depth.
 
Gunloc said:
I'm hyped as hell, but I really think it's weird that they are still trying to sell Don as some slick hero.

Maybe newcomers, or people that are only vaguely familiar with the character would still have that perception, but anyone that watches the show should know by know that he's just a douche.
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I don't know about you but the dude is my hero. If my life was half as crazy as that...
 
shadyspace said:
Pete's my favorite character. He and Trudy have the best (romantic) relationship on the show, too.
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He's definitely come a long way from pointing his rifle at co-workers. I would of never thought I'd like Pete as much as I do now.

And Trudy is just amazing.

Leona Lewis said:
It's a commercial, it's meant to lure in potential viewers, not reinforce the opinions of existing ones.

It's like The Sopranos - you entice them with a facade of glamor and scandal, then blindside them with depth.
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Oh, I get the marketing angle. But we're in season 5 now and I'm surprised that they think they can get away with such an outdated/practically deceitful depiction of the main character to lure in viewers.

Unless Don is gonna make a huge turnaround this season, people new to the series might by surprised about the difference about what they heard about Don and what he currently is. (Though anyone new to the series should definitely not be starting at S5.)

-Pyromaniac- said:
Yeah I'm pretty sure he is damnnnn slick.
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S4 Don? He seems more like a vomit stained train wreck to me. His current actions towards the people in his life are just deplorable IMO. He should get back together with Betty and the two of them can drag each other into oblivion.
 
I think Don Draper is the epitome of being a suave man. He just gives off a cool aura thanks to Jon Hamm's handsomeness and his ability to pull women.

He's an asshole, I think we all know that. Yet he also shows flashes of humanity and emotion, like when it comes to his kids. Sometimes he shows a willingness to change his selfish lifestyle but by the end of a season he'll throw it all away again. A very intriguing character and that's probably why we're all addicted to watching this show.
 
I think even "asshole" is exaggerating it. He's a good and loving father who refuses to strike his children, even when pushed. He's never struck his wife. He's not a bigot (him and Pete were the only two attendees of Roger's party where he sung in blackface that found it distasteful). He recognized talent in Peggy and never treated her differently in her work because of her gender. He made sure to take care of Anna Draper both financially and emotionally. He kept Sal's secret and didn't fire him on the spot like I'm sure many men of his era would have if put in the same position. He's loyal to his clients, he hated having to ditch a smaller airline because it conflicted with going after a much bigger client and a much bigger payday.

What has he done besides habitually cheat on his wife? Which, while obviously a moral failing, I don't define him by it.
 
Gunloc said:
S4 Don? He seems more like a vomit stained train wreck to me. His current actions towards the people in his life are just deplorable IMO. He should get back together with Betty and the two of them can drag each other into oblivion.
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'summer man' alone had more than enough slickness to make up for it
 
I bought this series purely on word of mouth. I own almost 500 blurays and have seasons 1-3. Should i open it? I haven't seen more than 5 seconds of this show.
 
shadyspace said:
I think even "asshole" is exaggerating it. He's a good and loving father who refuses to strike his children, even when pushed. He's never struck his wife. He's not a bigot (him and Pete were the only two attendees of Roger's party where he sung in blackface that found it distasteful). He recognized talent in Peggy and never treated her differently in her work because of her gender. He made sure to take care of Anna Draper both financially and emotionally. He kept Sal's secret and didn't fire him on the spot like I'm sure many men of his era would have if put in the same position. He's loyal to his clients, he hated having to ditch a smaller airline because it conflicted with going after a much bigger client and a much bigger payday.

What has he done besides habitually cheat on his wife? Which, while obviously a moral failing, I don't define him by it.
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He only protected Sal until it hurt the company, then he sold him out in no time flat, and this was after the client (who didn't even stay with the firm) sexually assaulted him.

He treated Faye and Allison like garbage and let's not forget the horrible way he treated Betty and Bobbi. He has even turned on Peggy, trying to guilt trip her for her success. And who even knows what's going on with Megan.

He's nice to his kids in certain moments (though I think he forgets that Gene even exists) but usually has to make all these grand gestures (bringing home a dog, Beatles tickets, trips to Disneyland) to make up for his absentee behavior. (Though Betty is no better, I still think the kids would be better off with Henry.)

And I think it's safe to say he's now a full blown alcoholic.

Even his marketing skills are not what they used to be. Where it used to be genius with rare moments of weakness, it's now only middling success with a few flashes of brilliance. (That he can't even seem to parlay into something concrete.)

Now, I didn't always hate Don, and I'd love to see him get his life back on track, but I don't think he's anything like the image we used to be presented of him during the first two seasons. He's in a nosedive and he doesn't seem to have any inkling to want to pull out of it.
 
brianjones said:
i don't think he's in a nosedive

he was in a pretty good place as of the season 4 finale

his alcoholism peaked mid season
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I think he definitely pulled out of the dive midway through the season. Then the season finale he went a bit crazy. I suppose we'll have to see the fallout of that this season and whether he's back to crap town. I think he'll turn back into season 1 Don.
 
shadyspace said:
I think even "asshole" is exaggerating it. He's a good and loving father who refuses to strike his children, even when pushed.
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Don is a terrible father. I don't know how anyone could think otherwise. He's never been there for his kids when they've really needed him. He loves them, but he consistently puts his own needs above theirs.

He's never struck his wife.
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I think you've forgotten that scene where Betty shoves Don, and Don shoves her back in the chest so hard she almost falls over.
 
hamchan said:
I think he definitely pulled out of the dive midway through the season. Then the season finale he went a bit crazy. I suppose we'll have to see the fallout of that this season and whether he's back to crap town. I think he'll turn back into season 1 Don.
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That's exactly it. He seemed to be getting back on track, but then he threw it all away again.

And a couple weeks of soberesque living doesn't mean he's clean. It would be extremely shocking to me if he doesn't relapse.
 
BertramCooper said:
Don is not a good father. I don't know how anyone could think that he is. He's never been there for his kids when they've really need them.
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On one of Sally's birthdays, wasn't he supposed to go get her birthday cake from the baker, but instead he just left and never came back? lol What a good dad.
 
I guess all of you had Ward Cleaver for a dad. Where I come from, if your father doesn't beat you, is around at all and tells you he loves you he's automatically quite a few steps above terrible.

BertramCooper said:
I think you've forgotten that scene where Betty shoves Don, and Don shoves her back in the chest so hard she almost falls over.
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I said struck. Please, the cops wouldn't even haul you in nowadays for pushing your wife a few feet, much less back then. That's saintly behavior compared to many of his peers. And that's really the crux of the issue. You have to judge a character in his time, not your's.
 
shadyspace said:
I guess all of you had Ward Cleaver for a dad. Where I come from, if your father doesn't beat you, is around at all and tells you he loves you he's automatically quite a few steps above terrible.
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yeah seriously.. don may not be father of the year but i think his intentions in this department are good
 
shadyspace said:
I guess all of you had Ward Cleaver for a dad. Where I come from, if your father doesn't beat you, is around at all and tells you he loves you he's automatically quite a few steps above terrible.
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Don is marrying a woman primarily to take care of his children. That's how much he hates parenting. He's been on the brink of abandoning his children multiple times in the series. When faced with a difficult situation with his children, he either ignores it or pawns it off on someone else (remember Faye and Sally).

He sucks.

I said struck. Please, the cops wouldn't even haul you in nowadays for pushing your wife a few feet, much less back then. That's saintly behavior compared to many of his peers. And that's really the crux of the issue. You have to judge a character in his time, not your's.
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Go back and watch that scene. I'd definitely qualify it as striking.
 
RatskyWatsky said:
lol Whatever happened to that dog?
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Polly? Henry is now looking after her, though he's not to happy about it. (The only real flaw I've found with him so far, besides pursuing Betty while she was married.)

I'll never understand why Henry wanted to be with her though, his need of a trophy wife doesn't really seem to match the rest of his personality.
 
BertramCooper said:
Don is marrying a woman primarily to take care of his children. That's how much he hates parenting.
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not so sure about that.. matt weiner says in the commentary track for "tomorrowland" that don is genuinely in love with megan and that a lot of people were confused by that

it was certainly impulsive but i wouldn't say he "went crazy"
 
Very, very few men from that time period were hands on fathers. The role of the father in the 1960s was to be the disciplinarian. That's just about all. Most fathers were cold and distant.
 
Gunloc said:
I'll never understand why Henry wanted to be with her though, his need of a trophy wife doesn't really seem to match the rest of his personality.
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All of the men who have fallen for Betty (other than perhaps Don) have been seduced by her melancholy. They sense her sadness and want to save her from it.
 
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