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[hamchan]

LOL Not buying a game because of reviews. This is so smashing, it's not like we have brains and can formulate opinions by ourselves. Nope, can't even rent games either!

You're suggesting people buy a game even though they're on the fence about it?

 

[VALIS]

Brad Shoemaker criticizes it for not being a sandbox game when it never even pretends to be. The Mafia games are purposefully linear because they deal heavily in storytelling. They're almost purely story-driven.

Having a large city doesn't make your game a sandbox game, and it also doesn't mean that's what you're attempting. People conflate "open-world" with "sandbox" far too often, and they mean two entirely different things.

No, that's not the entirety of his criticisms. Everyone in this thread keeps going on about how reviewers are missing the point about the sandbox stuff, but most of the reviews say the missions are generic and boring, too. That has nothing to do with sandbox play.

But you have to slog through just as many predictable turns, and a lot of uninspired game design--driving and shooting, then more driving and shooting, then still more driving--to get to them. Then, just when it seems like it's about to really get going, the game is over.

...

In general, it's stop, pop, rinse and repeat from one mission to the next, and other than the occasional fistfight or car chase (there's that reliance on driving again), it's hard to play more than a handful of the story's 15 chapters without feeling like you've done all this before.

...

Playing Mafia II gives you the feeling that the developers put more emphasis on telling a great mob story than designing a great video game, but had to split their attention too much to effectively do either one. That story would have probably been better served if the game had shed its superfluous open-world trappings and focused on quicker pacing and greater diversity in the mission design.

Actually sounds like the opposite of being disappointed it wasn't more of a sandbox game.

 

[Kintaro]

No, that's not the entirety of his criticisms. Everyone in this thread keeps going on about how reviewers are missing the point about the sandbox stuff, but most of the reviews say the missions are generic and boring, too. That has nothing to do with sandbox play.

Actually sounds like the opposite of being disappointed it wasn't more of a sandbox game.

Red Dead Redemption is some people's GOTY to this point. It's mission structure? Ride and shoot. Ride out somewhere, find a guy, shoot them. Take a stagecoach. Shoot the guys coming after you. Pick up a bounty, shoot some dude. Oh and herd some cattle.

If the actual content of the missions are boring, that's one thing (I haven't played the game yet, but freebie comes in tomorrow). But this gameplay mechanic is the vast majority of all games of this type. Ride somewhere, shoot somebody.

Was I the only one who sat back and soaked up Mafia I? I didn't rush through like a ADD riddled gamer from point A to point B, I listened to the conversations, I attempted to get into the timeframe, etc? Its the 1940s and 1950s and you're a gangster. You didn't speed through the city like a maniac drawing attention to yourself before you got down to business. No one watch Goodfellas and the Godfather to see what activities the movie versions of mobsters really got into?

Bah. I'm up too late.

 

[squicken]

The Eurogamer review is brutal. Those checkpoints sound awful. I understand the notion that games have gotten a little too easy, but how can you not auto-save after a cinematic in 2010? That's breaking a pretty cardinal rule of modern game design.

 

[Kintaro]

The Eurogamer review is brutal. Those checkpoints sound awful. I understand the notion that games have gotten a little too easy, but how can you not auto-save after a cinematic in 2010? That's breaking a pretty cardinal rule of modern game design.

Yeah, now that sucks. luckily...I will have quick saves.

Also, 10/10 GTA4 from Eurogamer. Same problems.

 

[Kayhan]

I am going to make the bold, I-have-no-actual-evidence assertion that had this game been put out by Rockstar, the reviews would be different.

There, I said it.

Based on the demo gameplay, the driving and shooting are as good as any of the GTAs and the story, if not the humor, is also as good.

The only major differences I can see are: its not sandbox and its not Rockstar.

 

[hamchan]

Red Dead Redemption is some people's GOTY to this point. It's mission structure? Ride and shoot. Ride out somewhere, find a guy, shoot them. Take a stagecoach. Shoot the guys coming after you. Pick up a bounty, shoot some dude. Oh and herd some cattle.

If the actual content of the missions are boring, that's one thing (I haven't played the game yet, but freebie comes in tomorrow). But this gameplay mechanic is the vast majority of all games of this type. Ride somewhere, shoot somebody.

I think the main complaint is that there isn't much side stuff to do in Mafia 2, which destroys some of the point of it being open world.

Using RDR as an example, you can easily get sidetracked while travelling to do some stranger missions or just go hunting. However it also let you skip the travel time if you so desired.

Seems like Mafia 2's open world doesn't have this, so no matter how beautiful the world looks or how great the conversations are it probably feels like extra padding.

I'm still hoping the missions are interesting and the story is good.

 

[Kayhan]

Eurogamer slaughters the game, other outlets give it 9/10.

What an incredibly divisive game. Can't wait to play it.

 

[Tears For Fears]

You're suggesting people buy a game even though they're on the fence about it?

Rent.

 

[Zeliard]

Actually sounds like the opposite of being disappointed it wasn't more of a sandbox game.

The purpose of the open world in the Mafia series isn't to faciliate sandbox play. It's to add to the atmosphere and, most critically, to remove the restriction of movement that so many linear games are marred by. You don't want to be driving around only to come to some random, illogical barrier, and you don't want this entire game set in some corridor-heavy complex, and that's why they give you the entire city.

The open-world design is meant to make it a more cohesive, immersive experience, not to litter the city with a million mindless side tasks that you can do in-between missions. They reason you have the entire city is purely for storytelling purposes, not gameplay, and this is a confusing concept to many because almost no other game does this. Making matters worse are the surface similarities to the GTA series, which some are incapable of looking past.

 

[Foliorum Viridum]

The Eurogamer review is brutal. Those checkpoints sound awful. I understand the notion that games have gotten a little too easy, but how can you not auto-save after a cinematic in 2010? That's breaking a pretty cardinal rule of modern game design.

Yeah, I do want to play this game pretty badly, but that one bulletpoint alone really annoys me. It's such a stupid thing that should NEVER happen in video games any more, without exception.

 

[DrBo42]

Liking it so far, the city is absolutely gorgeous. The snow on the streets, the vintage cars and Dean Martin's "Let it Snow" on the radio creates an atmosphere on a level I really haven't seen in a sandbox game before. Also makes me a little homesick for christmas in New York :lol. Will return with overall impressions when I finish the game.

 

[Kayhan]

Eurogamer Mafia 2 reviews:

eurogamer.fr - 10/10
eurogamer.cz - 9/10
eurogamer.it - 8/10
eurogamer.net - 4/10

WTF?

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

Eurogamer Mafia 2 reviews:

eurogamer.fr - 10/10
eurogamer.cz - 9/10
eurogamer.it - 8/10
eurogamer.net - 4/10

WTF?

.net just didn't like it I suppose, but thats okay. 4/10 is below average, but maybe not flat out bad so - Yeah!:=)

 

[PowderedToast]

Well, there's subjective and then there is missing the point entirely. Some of these reviewers see "big city" "missions" and "crime" and thinks its an open world sandbox GTA clone. Mafia is not and it never, ever has been.

If a reviewer takes it for what it is, they're on the right path. Whether they like it or not, at least they actually understand what the game is instead of what it isn't.

Then there is just stupidity, like this gem.



What he just described was every single main character in any open world game or any non-RPG game that doesn't give options. From John Marston to Niko to whoever. There is seriously no difference here. Its even worse when a character does bitch and moan (like Marston) because they end up doing it anyways so its all sound and fury signifying nothing.

yeah, based from the footage and demo, mafia II's protagonist appears to be fully content both morally and with his positional role. there's no false pretense or illusion of depth that rockstar's protagonist's suffer from so heavily. and while this critic didn't review GTAIV, it remains gross double standards that this is considered a legitimate criticism all of a sudden.

 

[MMaRsu]

I only played the ps3 demo, but comparing it to gow3 and uncharted 2 it's pretty bad. Plus the PC ver is so sexy.

Yeah that's why those games are closed off one path linear games and this is an open world game.

 

[N.A]

I finished the game last night, took just over 10 hours.

My thoughts:

+ The atmosphere is brilliant, it really captures the 40's & 50's well.
+ Soundtrack is awesome.
+ The story is good if a little clichéd.
+ Combat & driving mechanics are fun.
+ There are 2 or 3 really well done missions.
- Most of the game is driving to locations, I was shocked at how little combat (besides the melee stuff) is in the first half of the game.
- A couple really poor checkpoint locations making you have to repeat long sections.
- Framerate is occasionally bad (360 version).
- Pretty much nothing to do once you've finished the game (where is the Free Ride mode?).

Overall I enjoyed it. When I was playing the

Spoiler

prison & plant the bomb

chapters I really thought the game was going to be an absolute classic but it never reaches those heights again for the rest of the game. I'd probably give it a 7.

 

[Piggus]

I am absolutely loving the atmosphere in this so far. The snoooooow omg. :3

 

[coopolon]

Yeah, now that sucks. luckily...I will have quick saves.

Also, 10/10 GTA4 from Eurogamer. Same problems.

I'm playing the PC version and I didn't see any quick save options. I very well might have missed it though, I didn't go through the menus exhaustively.

 

[GeekyDad]

I finished the game last night, took just over 10 hours.

Wow, that's short for an "open-world" game. And no multiplayer?

Have to say, after seeing some of the screen comparisons for the game, I wish I had asked for the 360 version. Haven't gotten my copy yet, but I'm really curious now to see how the PS3 version looks up close and personal.

 

[StarEye]

I think the main complaint is that there isn't much side stuff to do in Mafia 2, which destroys some of the point of it being open world.

Using RDR as an example, you can easily get sidetracked while travelling to do some stranger missions or just go hunting. However it also let you skip the travel time if you so desired.

Seems like Mafia 2's open world doesn't have this, so no matter how beautiful the world looks or how great the conversations are it probably feels like extra padding.

I'm still hoping the missions are interesting and the story is good.

I believe Mafia 2's open world structure is more to create a certain mood and authencity rather than giving you a place to cause havoc. It's kinda like those seemingly pointless in-between scenes in a movie to build up the atmosphere and/or tension.

It's either Mafia 2's open world structure, or a linear level based structure like Uncharted. Somehow, I think that kind of structure isn't very fitting for a game like Mafia. Instead of an open-world sandbox game, think of it as a hub world.

 

[dark10x]

Man, that Eurogamer review was scathing!

I would really love to read a review of this game written by a fan of the original.

Some of the complaints make it seem as if the reviewers don't understand the game...but others seem completely valid. Not really sure what to think.

I think the main complaint is that there isn't much side stuff to do in Mafia 2, which destroys some of the point of it being open world.

That complaint is just silly as this isn't trying to be a sandbox game. The city is a backdrop or, as suggested above, a "hub" world.

Honestly, that has me excited. I always love the potential of the worlds presented in sandbox games, but find that they ultimately bore me to tears with the sheer amount of random bullshit you're expected to complete. Assassin's Creed 2 would have been an infinitely more enjoyable game if they didn't have hundreds of tiny objective markers littering the map. It completely killed me interest in the game. That type of busy work feels like a waste of time to me and often detracts from the design of the proper missions.

What worries me about Mafia II, however, is that the missions may not actually be as good as they should be. If it fails on that front, the game will have missed its mark. I will not slam it for lacking in sandbox value, however.

edit - OK, I see now that Eurogamer also gave the original Mafia a 4/10. While the reviewer may be different, this at least gives me hope that I will enjoy the sequel just as much. It clearly doesn't appeal to them.

 

[Gacha-pin]

This is expected:lol

Mafia is a third person shooter. Don't take this game as an open world game. The open world city is just there as a setting.

Anyway, I got a ps3 version along with PC. I tried The betrayal of Jimmy DLC. Here are what I found in DLC.

-DLC got more open structures like typical sandbox games, driving around the city and looking for quest providers.
-It doesn't have trophies.
-The missions are similar to GTA's side mission, less quirk than FREX.
-There is a story, a few cut scenes.

I think it's a good addition but I don't think it's worth 9 dollars.

 

[LabouredSubterfuge]

I have to say that, having played the demo, I'm not in the slightest bit surprised at it garnering low scores.

Especially considering that the driving and shooting was mediocre at best and that (as the reviews suggest) is what the game pretty much consists of.

Add to that, the possibility that the story and dialogue may well be rubbish (again from certain reviews) then it makes sense to me that this probably isn't a very good game.

Going on the demo alone I'd have given it a 5/10.

 

[MMaRsu]

I have to say that, having played the demo, I'm not in the slightest bit surprised at it garnering low scores.

Especially considering that the driving and shooting was mediocre at best and that (as the reviews suggest) is what the game pretty much consists of.

Add to that, the possibility that the story and dialogue may well be rubbish (again from certain reviews) then it makes sense to me that this probably isn't a very good game.

Going on the demo alone I'd have given it a 5/10.

Lol what a load of shit. The driving and shooting were fine in the demo..

 

[LabouredSubterfuge]

Lol what a load of shit. The driving and shooting were fine in the demo..

Sure. Fine. I'm not paying money for 'fine' when those element should be 'very fucking good' considering it's what you're doing for the length of the sodding game.

 

[MMaRsu]

Sure. Fine. I'm not paying money for 'fine' when those element should be 'very fucking good' considering it's what you're doing for the length of the sodding game.

Better than GTAIV anyway

 

[NHale]

I am going to make the bold, I-have-no-actual-evidence assertion that had this game been put out by Rockstar, the reviews would be different.

There, I said it.

It's not a bold statement at all. Do we all forgot about the Red Dead Redemption "he needs to respect the huge achievement he's writing about here" fiasco that led to the firing of the writer?

And I find it hilarious that GAF always jump on every reviewer that gives a game a less than stellar review. Those reviewers clearly forgot that every game with an Official Thread on GAF is a serious contender for GOTY for about 1 month after release...

 

[MMaRsu]

It's not a bold statement at all. Do we all forgot about the Red Dead Redemption "he needs to respect the huge achievement he's writing about here" fiasco that led to the firing of the writer?

And I find it hilarious that GAF always jump on every reviewer that gives a game a less than stellar review. Those reviewers clearly forgot that every game with an Official Thread on GAF is a serious contender for GOTY for about 1 month after release...

You can review a game for what it is and for what you want it to be. Or you can fail to 'get' the game at all.

 

[Munin]

As for the EG review, they gave the first game 4/10 as well. It is still one of the best games I have ever played. So fuck them.

 

[GitarooMan]

As for the EG review, they gave the first game 4/10 as well. It is still one of the best games I have ever played. So fuck them.

Woooow, yeah, they gave Mafia 1 PC a 4/10. Fucking unreal, that is one of the greatest PC games ever.

 

[Dilly]

Is the PC and X360 DLC out yet?

 

[Kayhan]

Review: 4/5 from G4TV (360 version)

The Pros

* Incredibly well articulated world
* Engrossing storyline and characters
* Shocking attention to detail in game's presentation


The Cons

* Minimal reasons to deviate from main story and explore Empire Bay
* Stop-and-pop combat grows tiresome
* Some character rendering poorly done, pulls you out of the experience

http://g4tv.com/games/xbox-360/47821/Mafia-II/review/

 

[derFeef]

Incredibly, engrossing, shocking.
I love their reviews :lol


also, what happened to Dennis?

 

[BobsRevenge]

I think I'm going to love the fuck out of this game. Going to download and install it while I'm at the gym after I get back from work. Then I'm going to shower and sit down with a bottle of wine and play the living fuck out of this game.

It will be lovely.

 

[Zeliard]

I think I'm going to love the fuck out of this game. Going to download and install it while I'm at the gym after I get back from work. Then I'm going to shower and sit down with a bottle of wine and play the living fuck out of this game.

It will be lovely.

The word "atmospheric" gets thrown a lot in gaming, but man does it ever apply to this. Just walking around the city feels amazing. I've rarely played a game that has so effectively captured a sense of time and place.

The demo does not do this game justice. Context is everything.

 

[Kayhan]

Incredibly, engrossing, shocking.
I love their reviews :lol


also, what happened to Dennis?

He got banned in the OT for getting into a petty insult mudslinging contest.

 

[StevePharma]

The demo (PS3) put me off, damnit and I was so hyped for it. Driving felt clunky, world looked amazing and I loved the atmosphere, but gameplay-wise it just didn't click with me. Maybe I'll hold out and buy the (superior?) PC version on Steam soon.


Not to derail but I hope that L.A. Noir will satisfy me more than Mafia 2's demo did.

 

[Kayhan]

Review from bit-tech.net: 7/10

http://www.bit-tech.net/gaming/pc/2010/08/24/mafia-2-review/1

 

[NIN90]

hurr why is this not more liek GTA

 

[Jenga]

I think the main complaint is that there isn't much side stuff to do in Mafia 2, which destroys some of the point of it being open world.

it's a sequel to Mafia

which did exactly the same damned thing

I'm not sure why they expected GTA in the 50's

 

[Headhunter]

Just found out, that the Steam US version of the game has an IP download block. You need an US IP to get it. Bollux. And hail to the VPN

 

[derFeef]

it's a sequel to Mafia

which did exactly the same damned thing

I'm not sure why they expected GTA in the 50's

It plays in a city and it has cars? I wonder that too. Anyway, reviews do not bother me at all and I can not wait when Steam unlocks this for us poor Euro guys.

More impressions by now? Would be nice.

 

[Caesar III]

it's a sequel to Mafia

which did exactly the same damned thing

I'm not sure why they expected GTA in the 50's

THIS!

I read in a review (IIRC it was Gamestar) they were complaining about the police being so strict regarding traffic lights and speed.

I LOVED THIS in the first game. Traffic light awareness is gone already They don't do anything if you don't stop at a red light now.

This is no fast paced boom bang GTA game, damnit.

 

[StarEye]

It plays in a city and it has cars?

So does Burnout Paradise.

 

[Jenga]

Wow, that's short for an "open-world" game. And no multiplayer?

it's not a real open world game

quit treating it like it is people

 

[Kayhan]

Having seen a lot of reviews by now, I don't think most of them are bad at all and a lot of them are quite glowing with very good scores.

Reviews are subjective things of course, but the 4/10 score from Eurogamer just seems off. A 4/10 is normally a truly, truly, absymal game.

 

[Kintaro]

I think the main complaint is that there isn't much side stuff to do in Mafia 2, which destroys some of the point of it being open world.

Just because it has a city, does not make it open world.

Man, I hate this generation.

 

[Jenga]

Just because it has a city, does not make it open world.

Man, I hate this generation.

Also, NO MULTIPLAYER!

to be frank, Mafia multiplayer would fucking suck, why ask for it :lol

 

[faceless007]

It's kind of depressing how obvious it is who didn't play the first game.