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[Blargonaut]

Blarg is playing this one extremly safe.

I want the Red Pill.

Safe for you

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

Re: Blarg

He's behaving the same way he always does.

In other words, I don't have a read on him. lol

I'm willing to let him continue as long as it doesn't become a nuisance.

 

[roytheone]

Can someone tell me why Karkador would want to derail day 1 discussion? As in, what other reason besides being mafia could Kark have for making a role claiming and lightning rodding?

After reading Kark his posts, I think his own main reasons are:

Honestly, I hate to keep bringing up metagame reasoning regarding other games, but I've watched 5 of these things run their course from behind the scenes, and the current meta on GAF is that Day 1 is largely a meaningless circus. The large majority of assertions made about other players at the start are dead wrong, no matter how good they think they are at hunting for it.

He thinks day 1 discussion is bullshit anyway, so in his mind he isn't derailing anything of value anyway.

I wouldn't say it's as binary as the obvious "If you voted for me, you're scum" - which is why I really, really think people need to justify their vote with reasoning. I think we can all agree that people talking can generate information. But let's get people talking and voting and justifying their reasoning on a specific thing, rather than just the chaos of Day 1 chatter.

So instead of the chaos of the "circus" that is normal day 1 discussions he opted to focus the discussion on one particular point.

I don't agree with this, I think day 1 discussions actually can be of a lot of value when you look back at it when you have more information later in the game. Focusing the discussion on one particular subject (and specifically so soon in this day, the day wasn't even 25 % complete when he did it and not everybody had posted something substantial yet) is a bad move.

 

[Blargonaut]

Re: Blarg

He's behaving the same way he always does.

In other words, I don't have a read on him. lol

I'm willing to let him continue as long as it doesn't become a nuisance.

I'm just waiting

 

[Blargonaut]

I'm glad you all agree with me

 

[Blargonaut]

I disagree that the conversation has been directed away from scumhunting. Just read what people are saying, or perhaps not saying.

None of them are singing though

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

After reading Kark his posts, I think his own main reasons are:



He thinks day 1 discussion is bullshit anyway, so in his mind he isn't derailing anything of value anyway.



So instead of the chaos of the "circus" that is normal day 1 discussions he opted to focus the discussion on one particular point.

I don't agree with this, I think day 1 discussions actually can be of a lot of value when you look back at it when you have more information later in the game. Focusing the discussion on one particular subject (and specifically so soon in this day, the day wasn't even 25 % complete when he did it and not everybody had posted something substantial yet) is a bad move.

Here's the problem with all of this that you've quoted. The way he pulled this stunt, his intention was to push attention away from himself and have us focus on other players, trying to get us to scumhunt elsewhere. Claiming ordinary villager is like him trying to say "hey, don't worry about me, I'm harmless; look at other people". Then, once he sees that I've called his bluff, he keeps stressing how GAF sucks at scumhunting and how we're likely going to make a mistake. Again, he's pushing the conversation away from himself without really justifying why he did what he did.

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

Also keep in mind Karkador wants a Day 1 no lynch, which is extremely anti-town. He stresses how we'll get no information from a kill, but that's not true; we'll know that whoever is dead is not mafia. It's honestly not even something we should be debating at this juncture. We've been playing enough games to know that this is the best course of action even if there are causalities.

Karkador has not said a single thing to convince me that lynching him isn't the best choice for Day 1.

 

[Blargonaut]

Also my guess is that there are 3 No Funners in this game. I'm also not for a Day 1 kill

Information comes from dead bodies, but not really on Day 1. Killing a Power Role will confirm that they weren't lying about any information they shared, but nobody's used their powers yet.

I think a dead body from Night 1 is going to be confusing, whether or not we lynch today. Like I said, NoFun can freely coordinate their message all day, and what we learn will be minimal. I would rather have the potential extra day before LyLo, rather than miserably send someone home for some 'information' that will likely be forgotten by Day 3.

I also propose that the more Fun talks, the more openings we're giving NoFun to capitalize on, and confuse us.

So let's do this a little differently, shall we?

Do we want a body today? I'm a regular ass Ordinary Kid, and I volunteer myself as the fresh meat. I'm not throwing the game, so this is not a ragequit. As a non-PR, I wont necessarily be missed, unless you think I play well or add valuable insight to the discussion, or something (lol).

VOTE: Karkador

If you're Fun-aligned, it's really senseless to vote for me... but if you really want your Day 1 lynch, I propose you lynch me.

Please don't override me

 

[RetroMG]

Checking in. Blarg's gonna Blarg, Kark is suspicious, but so is batsnacks.

Life should quiet down this afternoon, and then I'll try to have something meatier.

 

[Blargonaut]

Can this console run Doom

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

Can this console run Doom

Via VC, but you'll have to wait until 2 years before Nintendo retires it.

 

[roytheone]

Here's the problem with all of this that you've quoted. The way he pulled this stunt, his intention was to push attention away from himself and have us focus on other players, trying to get us to scumhunt elsewhere. Claiming ordinary villager is like him trying to say "hey, don't worry about me, I'm harmless; look at other people". Then, once he sees that I've called his bluff, he keeps stressing how GAF sucks at scumhunting and how we're likely going to make a mistake. Again, he's pushing the conversation away from himself without really justifying why he did what he did.

Oh, don't get me wrong, while I don't necessarily am against taking damage control into account when deciding who to lynch, I do find the way Kark proposed it very, VERY weird. He is currently my main lynch candidate, and that is not because of damage control reasons, but mostly because of how he currently tries to control the discussion in the thread.

 

[cabot]

That doesn't invalidate that he's ignored my responses.

Sure but quoting a post that's irrelevant to your point is a bit odd.

 

[Blargonaut]

Sure but quoting a post that's irrelevant to your point is a bit odd.

Want to hear a joke?

 

[batsnacks]

Can someone who has played with Kark before confirm whether he should know that no lynching and self voting hurt town? Especially self voting in response to people not supporting no lynching. That's like hurting town in response to town being unwilling to hurt itself. That's a lot of hurt!

But maybe he's just trolling for Reasons™.

 

[batsnacks]

Want to hear a joke?

I wanna hear a joke I'll tell you one if you tell me one.

 

[Sorian]

Burbeting, roy and I are europe timezone, so as you all decided to have at it, we were all dreaming about electric sheep.


Kark. Kark, Kark, Kark. Can't say I'm entirely sure of the play here, as discussed, I don't see any particular benefit from it, and if anything it comes off as a bizarre way to make a point about no lynch. I'm in the 'believe lynching from the off is useful' camp, so I'll go for one. I'm not quite settled on calling Kark's bluff yet.

Why not? Because Blarg is here, and all I've seen are photos, random numbering, and fish gifs. I may be dreaming for an impossible happiness, but I'd like some real substance from him before I switch my vote barring no other craziness happens.

<3 all my european friends, I just like giving you all shit, I knew you'd be in to post when you woke up.

I disagree that the conversation has been directed away from scumhunting. Just read what people are saying, or perhaps not saying.

If you are ordinary town then this whole ploy has been 100% garbage and if you are scum, I feel like this is just inexperienced play. That being said, a good night's sleep may have helped me realize what this whole thing was supposed to be. I'll be re-evaluating whether I want to vote for you or not.

I don't know what you should do. I just know that it isn't organic feeling and I can't get reads off it. He could be playing any level of fuckery. Get him close to an eviction, than he claims PR and forces a no evict. Who knows?

I think he was calling launchpad a flip-flopper because he jumped from evicting me to evicting Kark. That is a contribution, even if it exists only within my own head.

I find it curious that you can't get a read off of Karkador but you are more than ready to throw read out on Blarg's words of all people.

Also, I do not like that Kark seems to want to make the lynch discussion solely about damage control. I am OK with Damage control if there are two potential mafia on the chopping block and I think one of them would be a bigger loss for Fun if he flips town (for example because I think he is a PR or a very good player), but solely voting for someone because of damage control with no other reason is a weird thing to do. Damage control can be part of your reason to vote/not vote for someone, but it should never be the sole reason.

I agree with this 100%. He's acting like he is too scared of causing us damage while saying that he is using this as bait to see who is actually scum himself.

Weekend has been hectic, with a work conference and now my girlfriend is ill. I'm going to be able to post tomorrow, I hope. All the trains are broken in my country.

The Karkador thing has derailed the conversation, perhaps according to plan. The speed at which this thread is updating as a result is almost overwhelming. The side effect is that D1 is even more useless than usual; who's going to sift through all of this?

I hope all is well for you, at least now I am free to send my vote elsewhere. Keep in touch when you can!

In an effort to share the love and not to just focus on Kark completely. I'd like to nudge someone who has stuck to the shadows. I was thinking Retro first but I think I can trust him to post when he said he would so I'll go for

VOTE: Lone_Prodigy

Thoughts on the day? I find it suspicious that you've remained as a background character when a lot of strange plays have been made in just the first 24 hours of play.

 

[Sorian]

Can someone who has played with Kark before confirm whether he should know that no lynching and self voting hurt town? Especially self voting in response to people not supporting no lynching. That's like hurting town in response to town being unwilling to hurt itself. That's a lot of hurt!

But maybe he's just trolling for Reasons™.

Kark is an experienced player who has moderated his own games. Anything he is saying is coming from a place of knowledge.

 

[Blargonaut]

I wanna hear a joke I'll tell you one if you tell me one.

Fine,

Spoiler

I couldn't tell Cabbeh anyway since he's already /ded

*ba-dum tsh*

 

[cabot]

That's a thinker

 

[batsnacks]

Fine,

Spoiler

I couldn't tell Cabbeh anyway since he's already /ded

*ba-dum tsh*

That wasn't funny I rescind my offer! No joke for you.

 

[Blargonaut]

That wasn't funny I rescind my offer! No joke for you.

Checkmate.

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

Sure but quoting a post that's irrelevant to your point is a bit odd.

How is that irrelevant? There are other posts more indicative of what he's been doing, but that post is not irrelevant. Read it in the context of all the other "GAF sucks" posts he's made.

Can someone who has played with Kark before confirm whether he should know that no lynching and self voting hurt town? Especially self voting in response to people not supporting no lynching. That's like hurting town in response to town being unwilling to hurt itself. That's a lot of hurt!

But maybe he's just trolling for Reasons™.

He's experienced.

If you are ordinary town then this whole ploy has been 100% garbage and if you are scum, I feel like this is just inexperienced play. That being said, a good night's sleep may have helped me realize what this whole thing was supposed to be. I'll be re-evaluating whether I want to vote for you or not.

I'll say this again, for batsnacks' benefit again. Kark knows how to play this game.

I think the likeliest scenario right now is that Kark was trying to buy some goodwill with town. Here's the problem, this play of just saying "lynch me guys" would be far too obvious for anyone with half a brain to fall for, so then we get into "well, he can't possibly be trying to deflect so obviously, he must be town" or "well, what if that's just what he wants us to think?". And just like that, we have this little thing spinning around in our brains, trying to fine some logic behind it.

However, the truths are as such:

1. A town Karkador would not roleclaim this early.
2. Any kind of trying to spin shit out of control is anti-town behavior.

That's all we need to know to say Karkador is a legitimately good shot at nabbing a NoFun scum lord.

 

[Sorian]

I'll say this again, for batsnacks' benefit again. Kark knows how to play this game.

I think the likeliest scenario right now is that Kark was trying to buy some goodwill with town. Here's the problem, this play of just saying "lynch me guys" would be far too obvious for anyone with half a brain to fall for, so then we get into "well, he can't possibly be trying to deflect so obviously, he must be town" or "well, what if that's just what he wants us to think?". And just like that, we have this little thing spinning around in our brains, trying to fine some logic behind it.

However, the truths are as such:

1. A town Karkador would not roleclaim this early.
2. Any kind of trying to spin shit out of control is anti-town behavior.

That's all we need to know to say Karkador is a legitimately good shot at nabbing a NoFun scum lord.

I read the situation a little bit differently, unfortunately that's all I will say further on the topic for now. If you are worried about whether I will vote for him or not, there's a good chance that I will.

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

I read the situation a little bit differently, unfortunately that's all I will say further on the topic for now. If you are worried about whether I will vote for him or not, there's a good chance that I will.

I'd like to hear your thoughts, unless you think it'll give Kark an out.

 

[Karkador]

Just closing up a few loose ends before moving off the subject of me:

Anwyay, about Kark's offer, I don't think we should focus on that just yet - I'm more worried about what it's being used for than about the offer itself. One minute we were having a useful lynch vs. no lynch conversation and the next Kark's made the discussion be about himself. I also don't think it's healthy at all to have such an easy target on day 1 - it will greatly devalue future reads if today had a "free target" for people to pile onto that will be useless for other people to contrast against future actions.

Consider it as trying to prove a point - or more ideally, trying to get people to agree to approach the problem a new way (while I'm still alive, even more ideally).

The tendency I find in this game (and the other games, but sshh, no metadiscussion) is that Town is too damn toxic against itself. We're supposed to be working as a team, and yet the dominant form of the discussion is to shit all over each other, lob accusations and put pressure on people for no substantial reason - even knowing that the majority of us are on the good side, and the majority of the discussion is well-intentioned.

The problem is that even if you think you're awesome at detecting scum and breaking people with aggressive tactics, the other Town players you aim at might not be good at handling that pressure - and so those people spill information they shouldn't to defend themselves. Both sides think they're doing the right thing; Mafia laughs, because not only are they in a much better position to engineer (or dodge) these situations, but all the talk that comes out of this just serves to help them pick their target at night better.

For those reasons above, I think a Day 1 lynch hurts more than it helps. What I want Town to do is trust each other, and cooperate. Make plays that are in the best interest of keeping the Town group alive, not just this cynical wasting of players in the slight hope that someone is bad.

As a Town player on Day 1, I'm asked whether I want to randomly lynch what will most probably be a Town player - my answer is "no".

So I am actually not against Kark his "damage control" plan per se (though I do want to add that damage control should not focus purely on PR VS no-PR, a very good no-PR player can actually be more valuable to us than a PR player), but I do find his timing to be a bit.......weird.

To be quite honest, I don't really know what the "damage control" term is, but my intention is for Town to shift its attitude, not to center discussion around me.

 

[Karkador]

So without further ado, how about that LaunchPadMcQ?

 

[Karkador]

Sorian, I have some questions for you.


What part of Launch's responses to your prodding seemed like they weren't complete bullshit? I'm having trouble finding it.

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

lol I'm ready for you Kark. Fire away.

To be quite honest, I don't really know what the "damage control" term is, but my intention is for Town to shift its attitude, not to center discussion around me.

That backfired totally and completely.

 

[batsnacks]

Once we do lynch mafia seeing who they pressured d1, if anyone, is a valuable tool. Mafia doesn't usually bus d1 and some players have tendencies like ignoring their scumbuddies in thread so seeing who people accuse d1 is really important. If everyone just holds hands all day and waits for night we will never have that info.

 

[Karkador]

Don't get me wrong, Sorian. I'm trusting that you're Town aligned, and I want to cooperate with you. So in reading back through the thread again, I found your exchanges with Launch - you know, the ones with bizarre answers like feigning ignorance about Mafia basics, despite claiming he's way too experienced to fall for my tricks.

Or how about this complete non-answer:

My point was that I don't really need to create a baseline for myself because I know I'm not scum, and also I'm not going to be able to force information from anyone without any information myself. I'll respond to things as they come up, but I have nothing to offer myself at the moment.

whatthefuckamireading.jpg

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

Once we do lynch mafia seeing who they pressured d1, if anyone, is a valuable tool. Mafia doesn't usually bus d1 and some players have tendencies like ignoring their scumbuddies in thread so seeing who people accuse d1 is really important. If everyone just holds hands all day and waits for night we will never have that info.

We'll get to how mafia behaves when their friends are on the chopping block once we actually get one. I would rather not discuss that since it would affect their behavior in this phase or any phase before we actually nab one of these guys.

However, I have some very solid ideas of how they behave.

 

[Blargonaut]

That's a thinker

It's a pressure-counter in the form of an attempt at referential humour based off a visual cue taken from the opponent, laced with a mildly threatening jab intended to arouse suspicion and thus maintain my enigmatic airs for the express purpose of self-preservation by means of active camouflage. Should you be targeted for elimination tonight by NoFun and I survive, that post's content will be used against me and I will be implicated for your demise, leading to a unstoppable bandwagon that will result in me being lynched tomorrow.

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

Don't get me wrong, Sorian. I'm trusting that you're Town aligned, and I want to cooperate with you. So in reading back through the thread again, I found your exchanges with Launch - you know, the ones with bizarre answers like feigning ignorance about Mafia basics, despite claiming he's way too experienced to fall for my tricks.

Or how about this complete non-answer:



whatthefuckamireading.jpg

I was fishing.

 

[Blargonaut]

Just tag me in already, Kark

 

[Sorian]

I'd like to hear your thoughts, unless you think it'll give Kark an out.

I'm sorry, I can't say anything more until day 2. It may give Kark an out, it may not, but I'll need to see this little story to its conclusion before I can go into detail.

The tendency I find in this game (and the other games, but sshh, no metadiscussion) is that Town is too damn toxic against itself. We're supposed to be working as a team, and yet the dominant form of the discussion is to shit all over each other, lob accusations and put pressure on people for no substantial reason - even knowing that the majority of us are on the good side, and the majority of the discussion is well-intentioned.

The problem is that even if you think you're awesome at detecting scum and breaking people with aggressive tactics, the other Town players you aim at might not be good at handling that pressure - and so those people spill information they shouldn't to defend themselves. Both sides think they're doing the right thing; Mafia laughs, because not only are they in a much better position to engineer (or dodge) these situations, but all the talk that comes out of this just serves to help them pick their target at night better.

It's a game of mafia, it's all built on not trusting your fellow players until they've done nothing to prove otherwise. It's day 1, I can't trust any of you yet.

Sorian, I have some questions for you.


What part of Launch's responses to your prodding seemed like they weren't complete bullshit? I'm having trouble finding it.

Which prodding? I think I'm misunderstanding your question.

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

Don't get me wrong, Sorian. I'm trusting that you're Town aligned, and I want to cooperate with you. So in reading back through the thread again, I found your exchanges with Launch - you know, the ones with bizarre answers like feigning ignorance about Mafia basics, despite claiming he's way too experienced to fall for my tricks.

Or how about this complete non-answer:



whatthefuckamireading.jpg

Also, you're misconstruing my posts in a rather magnificent fashion. "Feigning ignorance" - asking Sorian to explain his logic? "Too experienced" - because I've seen similar plays before?

 

[Sorian]

Don't get me wrong, Sorian. I'm trusting that you're Town aligned, and I want to cooperate with you. So in reading back through the thread again, I found your exchanges with Launch - you know, the ones with bizarre answers like feigning ignorance about Mafia basics, despite claiming he's way too experienced to fall for my tricks.

Or how about this complete non-answer:



whatthefuckamireading.jpg

Oh oh, I see what you are are talking about. Yes, I know that Launch has been spouting bullshit from the start. I've already commented on it.

 

[Blargonaut]

So without further ado, how about that LaunchPadMcQ?

I haven't decided whether I'm going to throw him back in yet or not

 

[Karkador]

Oh oh, I see what you are are talking about. Yes, I know that Launch has been spouting bullshit from the start. I've already commented on it.

Yes, but the discussion dropped it (understandably, for a detour - my bad), and I'd like to get back to it.

I find it discussion-worthy that out of every player in the game so far, Launch is by far the most aggressive. Why would anyone be so aggressive this early in the game?

 

[batsnacks]

We'll get to how mafia behaves when their friends are on the chopping block once we actually get one. I would rather not discuss that since it would affect their behavior in this phase or any phase before we actually nab one of these guys.

However, I have some very solid ideas of how they behave.

You did what with the who now?

 

[Blargonaut]

What's this store's return policy btw

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

Yes, but the discussion dropped it (understandably, for a detour - my bad), and I'd like to get back to it.

I find it discussion-worthy that out of every player in the game so far, Launch is by far the most aggressive. Why would anyone be so aggressive this early in the game?

A blatant mischaracterization. I said I was waiting for something to happen and I didn't think it would happen. Then you showed up and forced it. So, yes, I'm pursuing you aggressively and I've stated my reasons why.

You did what with the who now?

Huh?

 

[LaunchpadMcQ]

Hell, why don't you go through every single one of my posts and try to find hidden meanings in them?

You might actually be able to find my roleclaim if you look hard enough.

 

[batsnacks]

What's this store's return policy btw

30 days plus shipping plus 15% restocking fee.

 

[Sorian]

Yes, but the discussion dropped it (understandably, for a detour - my bad), and I'd like to get back to it.

I find it discussion-worthy that out of every player in the game so far, Launch is by far the most aggressive. Why would anyone be so aggressive this early in the game?

I can see two reasons to be this aggressive early on. Either you want to be scum hiding out as town, and after leading a lynch, you'll claim that you did what you thought was right and hopefully people buy it.

Or you are town hoping to trap scum making a bad power play.

Either play is weak in my opinion.

 

[Blargonaut]

Yes, but the discussion dropped it (understandably, for a detour - my bad), and I'd like to get back to it.

I find it discussion-worthy that out of every player in the game so far, Launch is by far the most aggressive. Why would anyone be so aggressive this early in the game?

Because both you and LaunchpadMcQ are NoFun and your duel is a mutually-arranged high-risk, high-reward gambit intended to try and solidify both of your positions early as FunTown

 

[Karkador]

We were practically just born, and yet Launch already has a vendetta against me, wanting to lynch me no matter what I am.

I have neither the information, the conviction nor the motive to get anybody lynched yet, and I assume every other Town is the same way.

 

[batsnacks]

I can see two reasons to be this aggressive early on. Either you want to be scum hiding out as town, and after leading a lynch, you'll claim that you did what you thought was right and hopefully people buy it.

Or you are town hoping to trap scum making a bad power play.

Either play is weak in my opinion.

I thought I was more aggressive than him, I feel like I am pushing Kark at least as aggressively. But yeah the "Hah! I was waiting for this, what a perfect opportunity!" thing when Kark self voted was maybe something.