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[Vyktal]

Hey guys, after a 2 year hiatus I went to the Theros prerelease event last weekend, had a blast and now fancy creating a decent new standard deck using some of the new Theros cards. Trouble is I'm very new and am not quite sure how to synergise and get the most out of the deck, without spending a bomb on cards (also I'm having trouble getting my head around the Magic jargon (e.g. midrange deck) to help me explain my deck tactics to others).

Right now I'm thinking I'd love to have a Black/Red underworld themed deck using Underworld Cerberus, Erebos and a couple of Erebos whip. I'll whip up a quick idea of my desired deck and I would really appreciate any advice.

24 Creatures
1 DROP
- 3 Asphodel Wanderer

2 DROP
- 2 Baleful Eidolon
- 2 Deathbellow Raider
- 2 Tyramet, the Murder King

3 DROP
- 2 Agents of the Fates
- 2 Nighthowler
- 2 Two-Headed Cerberus

4 DROP
- 1 Erebos
- 2 Erebos's Emissary

5 DROP
- 2 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
- 2 Underworld Cerberus

7 DROP
- 2 Abhorrent Overlord

16 Spells
- 2 March of the Returned
- 2 Ordeal of Erebos
- 2 Read the Bones
- 2 Scourgemark
- 2 Lightning Strike
- 2 Magma Jet
- 2 Ordeal of Purphorus

2 Artifacts
- 2 Whip of Erebos

20 Land
- 10 Swamp
- 10 Fire


Honestly? I have no idea what I'm doing...

 

[ultron87]

You probably want around 24 lands for that curve. 4 Rakdos Guildgates would be a decent cheap addition.

 

[bigkrev]

So, this is my first attempt on a whim at U/W control for standard



4 Omenspeaker
2 Fiendslayer Paladan
2 Aetherling
1 Angel of Serenity

4 Jace, Architech of Thought

4 Sphinx’s Revelation
4 Azorius Charm
4 Supreme Verdict
3 Detention Sphere
3 Dissolve
2 Syncopate
2 Essance Scatter

4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Azorius Guildgate
9 Island
8 Plains

Have no clue on the SB, or if the counterspell configuration is correct. Any advice?

 

[Lucario]

Hey guys, after a 2 year hiatus I went to the Theros prerelease event last weekend, had a blast and now fancy creating a decent new standard deck using some of the new Theros cards. Trouble is I'm very new and am not quite sure how to synergise and get the most out of the deck, without spending a bomb on cards (also I'm having trouble getting my head around the Magic jargon (e.g. midrange deck) to help me explain my deck tactics to others).

Right now I'm thinking I'd love to have a Black/Red underworld themed deck using Underworld Cerberus, Erebos and a couple of Erebos whip. I'll whip up a quick idea of my desired deck and I would really appreciate any advice.

24 Creatures
1 DROP
- 3 Asphodel Wanderer

2 DROP
- 2 Baleful Eidolon
- 2 Deathbellow Raider
- 2 Tyramet, the Murder King

3 DROP
- 2 Agents of the Fates
- 2 Nighthowler
- 2 Two-Headed Cerberus

4 DROP
- 1 Erebos
- 2 Erebos's Emissary

5 DROP
- 2 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
- 2 Underworld Cerberus

7 DROP
- 2 Abhorrent Overlord

16 Spells
- 2 March of the Returned
- 2 Ordeal of Erebos
- 2 Read the Bones
- 2 Scourgemark
- 2 Lightning Strike
- 2 Magma Jet
- 2 Ordeal of Purphorus

2 Artifacts
- 2 Whip of Erebos

20 Land
- 10 Swamp
- 10 Fire


Honestly? I have no idea what I'm doing...

You should try to cut the deck to 60 cards and up the land count to 24-25. Otherwise, you're going to have consistency issues.

I'd also try to streamline things a bit more. The graveyard recursion theme, heroic/double strike theme, and devotion themes are all solid individually -- you can probably run two of 'em -- but I'd cut a theme to have access to one strategy's spells more often.

If you want to take advantage of Underworld Cerberus, there are a ton of silly interactions you can use to ensure your opponent won't have creatures in the graveyard when it dies. Crypt Incursion is a fun one if you're going all-in on that strategy, but I probably wouldn't. If you want to go with devotion, I'd add in a few more Grey Merchants.

(Keep Cerberus in the deck no matter what, obviously, as it's very powerful in any build running tons of creatures.)

Best of luck, and have fun!

 

[Sinatar]

So, this is my first attempt on a whim at U/W control for standard

4 Omenspeaker
2 Fiendslayer Paladan
2 Aetherling
1 Angel of Serenity

4 Jace, Architech of Thought

4 Sphinx’s Revelation
4 Azorius Charm
4 Supreme Verdict
3 Detention Sphere
3 Dissolve
2 Syncopate
2 Essance Scatter

4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Azorius Guildgate
9 Island
8 Plains

Have no clue on the SB, or if the counterspell configuration is correct. Any advice?

Omenspeaker is not a card. Don't run them. Not sure what the fiendslayer paladins are for in a control deck either.

 

[f0rk]

Lucario did you get anywhere with Murder King? I fancy playing something different in standard just for giggles and he looks fun

 

[Grakl]

Lucario did you get anywhere with Murder King? I fancy playing something different in standard just for giggles and he looks fun

lucario and I haven't done anything with him, nah

I did make a silly standard deck with the burger king if you wanted them giggles though http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/volalolrig/

 

[Lucario]

we haven't done anything with him, nah

I did make a silly standard deck with him if you wanted them giggles though http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/volalolrig/

grakl, we spent like an entire week playtesting B/R aggro with him

 

[Grakl]

grakl, we spent like an entire week playtesting B/R aggro with him

go back to sleep >:[

that deck doesnt exist now cuz anger of the gods, and he wanted giggles, so I supplied them

 

[Lucario]

go back to sleep >:[

that deck doesnt exist now cuz anger, and he wanted giggles, so I supplied them

u 'avin a lil giggul m8

u murkin me brud? oi u wot m8?

 

[Vyktal]

Thanks Lucario and Ultran for the advice

 

[Grakl]

u 'avin a lil giggul m8

u murkin me brud? oi u wot m8?

I just imagine a dewott saying this angrily, it's funny

 

[OnPoint]

So my friend has an interesting theory about the double-faced cards. He's convinced they won't see reprinting for a long time, if at all. Do any of the finance gurus here agree with this, and do you think cards like Garruk and Huntmaster would be good to pick up now? I already have my set of foil Delvers locked away (legacy staples have a way of valuing up when foil), and I have my Garruk playset, but I'm not sure any others are worth the investment.

 

[Haly]

It would make sense, because double printing probably requires a change to their production methods that they can't just flip it on and off like a switch.

 

[Angry Grimace]

It would make sense, because double printing probably requires a change to their production methods that they can't just flip it on and off like a switch.

I doubt that; its a printing press, not a steel casting machine. I wouldn't be surprised in the least if the process is literally changing a setting in the computer that controls it.

A more plausible reason they wouldn't print them again is that they were either unpopular or unwieldy to play with.

 

[kirblar]

So my friend has an interesting theory about the double-faced cards. He's convinced they won't see reprinting for a long time, if at all. Do any of the finance gurus here agree with this, and do you think cards like Garruk and Huntmaster would be good to pick up now? I already have my set of foil Delvers locked away (legacy staples have a way of valuing up when foil), and I have my Garruk playset, but I'm not sure any others are worth the investment.

They need to print DFCs on an entire sheet of DFCs. They're very difficult to reprint.

 

[OnPoint]

A more plausible reason they wouldn't print them again is that they were either unpopular or unwieldy to play with.

They were neither.

So basically, the consensus seems to be that buying them is probably a good idea.

 

[aidan]

Monstrous cards should have been double-sided. Yep.

 

[kirblar]

Monstrous cards should have been double-sided. Yep.

I bet they definitely considered it.

 

[Firemind]

Every basic land should have full art.

 

[Haly]

Every basic land should have full art.

This.

 

[OnPoint]

Monstrous cards should have been double-sided. Yep.

It's a damn shame they weren't. They're more playable than werewolves as a whole were and new art for the monstrous version would have been awesome.

 

[platypotamus]

I wasn't actively playing during the double sided cards era, but I can't imagine them not being annoying as shit.

 

[Angry Grimace]

They were neither.

So basically, the consensus seems to be that buying them is probably a good idea.

I was just suggesting reasons they wouldn't, wasn't saying they were.

I don't think the actual printing of a two-sided card is a big deal for a major factory of a multinational printing corporation. They have to print something on the back of the card anyways.

I wasn't actively playing during the double sided cards era, but I can't imagine them not being annoying as shit.

Me neither, I was just guessing they might be since you apparently had to use the placeholder card and then sub in your real card.

 

[ultron87]

So my friend has an interesting theory about the double-faced cards. He's convinced they won't see reprinting for a long time, if at all. Do any of the finance gurus here agree with this, and do you think cards like Garruk and Huntmaster would be good to pick up now? I already have my set of foil Delvers locked away (legacy staples have a way of valuing up when foil), and I have my Garruk playset, but I'm not sure any others are worth the investment.

They just won't ever get reprinted in something like a Commander deck. They'd need to do a whole new set with a bunch of DFCs.

 

[bigkrev]

I wasn't actively playing during the double sided cards era, but I can't imagine them not being annoying as shit.

The only real problem with them was drafting (they eventually said everyone is required to reveal the 2 sided card after opening each pack), and casual, no sleeve play. They really needed to have a checklist card in every single pack, instead of just having it show up at a higher rate than any other token. They should replace the basic land with a checklist card in every pack next time they use them.

Every basic land should have full art.

I'm an advocate of them going back to the old pre-Masques/6th version of lands, that say Tap to add W to your mana pool. I'm surprised newer players aren't confused by Basics- they should just print what the card actually does instead of just putting a giant symbol on it. It also would make transitioning to non-basic lands less confusing.

 

[Angry Grimace]

The only real problem with them was drafting (they eventually said everyone is required to reveal the 2 sided card after opening each pack), and casual, no sleeve play. They really needed to have a checklist card in every single pack, instead of just having it show up at a higher rate than any other token. They should replace the basic land with a checklist card in every pack next time they use them.

I'm an advocate of them going back to the old pre-Masques/6th version of lands, that say Tap to add W to your mana pool. I'm surprised newer players aren't confused by Basics- they should just print what the card actually does instead of just putting a giant symbol on it. It also would make transitioning to non-basic lands less confusing.

Wouldn't the double side be annoying if you had a sleeve on the card? Do you just take it out or something?

I used to hate the giant symbol, but really, it sort of makes sense when you consider that producing red mana is simply characteristic of Mountains as a game rule rather than a function of the text that says "T: Add R to your mana pool." I imagine the oracle text for Taiga is nothing more than "Mountain Forest" at this point.

 

[OnPoint]

So double sided cards to pick up are...

Garruk Relentless

Huntmaster of the Fells

Delver of Secrets

Bloodline Keeper

Elbrus, the Binding Blade

Mayor of Avabruck

Daybreak Ranger​

Am I missing any worthwhile?

 

[bigkrev]

Wouldn't the double side be annoying if you had a sleeve on the card? Do you just take it out or something?

I used to hate the giant symbol, but really, it sort of makes sense when you consider that producing red mana is simply characteristic of Mountains as a game rule rather than a function of the text that says "T: Add R to your mana pool." I imagine the oracle text for Taiga is nothing more than "Mountain Forest" at this point.

I used checklist cards in my deck, and had the flip cards in clear sleeves in my deckbox to pull out as needed. I didn't ever want to get accused of cheating by someone who claimed that my sleeves weren't dark enough and showed the 2 face card through the back.

And while I know it's a game rule, when they do nonbasic lands at higher rarities that have basic land types (Dryad Arbor, Shocklands), they always put the reminder text on. It seems silly to have reminder text on rares but not commons.

 

[blindrocket]

lucario and I haven't done anything with him, nah

I did make a silly standard deck with the burger king if you wanted them giggles though http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/volalolrig/

I think that he would work best in a B/R Rakdos deck. Because you go out fast and furious with creatures before they have created a presence on the board and do as much damage as possible. Whenever the opponent has bigger/better creatures on the board and you don't have any removal, then just fling your creatures at him using Murder King to do the damage. Or perhaps when you have done significant damage and just need a finisher to pull off the rest.

 

[kirblar]

holy crap is SensDef real?

Just being able to go shock myself, use it on Rakdos cackler saves sooooo much life its not funny. I also put trading post in the board.

 

[blindrocket]

Innistrad block really had some sweet cards. I think the whole thing was really up my alley so I really kick myself to have taken a hiatus from Magic during that time.

Theros, while neat, isn't anywhere near that cool to me. Maybe things will change with the other two expansions.

I do like RtR block so at least I'll still have that to play with.

 

[Grakl]

I think that he would work best in a B/R Rakdos deck. Because you go out fast and furious with creatures before they have created a presence on the board and do as much damage as possible. Whenever the opponent has bigger/better creatures on the board and you don't have any removal, then just fling your creatures at him using Murder King to do the damage. Or perhaps when you have done significant damage and just need a finisher to pull off the rest.

well duh, but he asked for silly, so I gave him silly. a legitimate fast BR aggro deck for burger king is the best, sure.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=80924021&postcount=8818

there ya go, a BR deck pre-anger of the gods that lucario and I tested. feel free to tweak anything (the decklist wasn't even final at all), but I dont think we're using him anymore because anger of the gods exists. he's definitely fun though, I just wish he wasn't legendary

 

[f0rk]

Man the event deck sucks

 

[Neverender]

Can someone familiar with the program used at FNMs by stores tell me whether it's possible for a participant to get 2 byes in one night? Is it truly random or can a person with a bye not get another?

 

[OnPoint]

Man the event deck sucks

Where are you seeing it?

 

[An-Det]

Can someone familiar with the program used at FNMs by stores tell me whether it's possible for a participant to get 2 byes in one night? Is it truly random or can a person with a bye not get another?

Normally it's not. Anyone can get it round 1 if there's an odd number of participants, and then the person in last place gets it each round thereafter if there are still an odd number and they haven't gotten it yet in that event. The only exception is if your opponent drops/leaves without notice and you functionally get a bye. You could also manipulate the pairings to force it, but that's pretty sketchy.

 

[EsotericManiac]

Every basic land should have full art.

I have an entire box of Zendikar lands that I'm just going to sit on indefinitely. I might write up a will to ensure I'm buried with them when i pass on.



I got to see Lossett's stream playing miracles yesterday. It was more interesting to see his particular build and his use of Venser, Shaper Savant than anything.

He doesn't MD Helm and Rest in Peace and doesn't use E-tutor. I just bought an Energy Field for my deck this week.

 

[Keru_Shiri]

So double sided cards to pick up are...

Garruk Relentless

Huntmaster of the Fells

Delver of Secrets

Bloodline Keeper

Elbrus, the Binding Blade

Mayor of Avabruck

Daybreak Ranger​

Am I missing any worthwhile?

Instigator Gang and Hanweir Watchkeep see fringe play in Legacy, but both are dirt cheap. They may not go anywhere value wise, but the initial investment would be a pittance. Otherwise, I can't think of anything else.

 

[OnPoint]

Jace RTR is now pricey. Glad I picked him up at 10 a pop and a foil at 20.

 

[aidan]

Where are you seeing it?

http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/arcana/1329&dcmp=ilc-mtgrss

I like it. The deck itself is kinda weird, but there're a lot of fun cards in there.

 

[OnPoint]

http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/arcana/1329&dcmp=ilc-mtgrss

I like it. The deck itself is kinda weird, but there're a lot of fun cards in there.

Wow that seems pretty value packed in terms of card selection. It doesn't seem like a cohesive deck though lol

 

[Sinatar]

http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/arcana/1329&dcmp=ilc-mtgrss

I like it. The deck itself is kinda weird, but there're a lot of fun cards in there.

Well with the hallowed fountain, 2 dspheres and the soldier of the pantheon it breaks about even value wise.

EDIT: Frontline Medic too.

 

[JulianImp]

My sideboard would look something like this:
4 Frostburn Weird
2 Counterflux / Dissolve
2 Negate / Gainsay
3 Burning Earth
1 Turn // Burn / Cyclonic Rift
1 Electrickery / Spark Jolt
1 Ral Zarek
1 Jace, Memory Adept

Since I'll be playing the deck today, I've been thinking about the sideboard. What would I take out when nearly everything's supposed to be sided in against control decks?

The -4 Mizzum Mortars and -3 Spark Jolt seem obvious since control plays little to no creatures, but after that I don't know what else I could move around. I won't be able to play with Burning Earth and most likely won't have access to PWs yet, but I think those cards have no viable substitutes at the moment, so I don't know what I should be taking in their place.

Also, what cards can I reliably side out against aggro decks when I need to bring the Weirds, Electrickery and Cyclonic Rift in? I'd say the lone Chandra's Phoenix, since it isn't that good at holding the fort (even though aiming burn at their faces rather than their creatures while getting the phoenix back would give me some nice value), the Spark Jolts if they don't play around with X/1s and perhaps Turn//Burn if they don't play any crazy creatures that require Turning, but I'm not too sure about these choices.

 

[Lucario]

for some reason I really want to play ordeal of thassa in some gimmicky constructed deck

someone stop me please. Gotta jump through hoops for dem divinations!

 

[Lucario]

a magic-league tournament (yeah, I know, not the most competitive, but hear me out) ended 5 days ago apparently

entire top 8 was aggro

lol

http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=5685

These 'big' gruul decks are.... interesting. Satyr Hedonist isn't really something I'd toss in an aggro list, but I guess it's one way to reliably hit Ember Swallower's monstrosity cost (and, in the process, fuck over control pretty badly.)

Seems like they were trying to find things to cast off of BTE, and settled on that. But is BTE even something you'd throw in a big aggro list? Is it good enough to weaken the rest of your deck by playing worse 2-drops? I'm inclined to say no, but it's clear that these lists are very capable of winning, so YMMV.

I like the winning list quite a bit, though. Would run a third chandra and fill out Morars in the board if I were to bring it to SCG worcester.


EDIT: This is cool.

24 LANDS
9 Mountain
7 Forest
4 Temple of Abandon
4 Stomping Ground

27 CREATURES
4 Sylvan Caryatid
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Ember Swallower
4 Satyr Hedonist
4 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Ghor-Clan Rampager
3 Scavenging Ooze

3 INSTANTS and SORCERIES
3 Mizzium Mortars

6 OTHER SPELLS
4 Domri Rade
2 Xenagos, the Reveler

SIDEBOARD
2 Polukranos, World Eater
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
3 Ratchet Bomb
2 Polis Crusher
4 Peak Eruption

No burning-tree emissary, but still very devoted to getting those huge monstrosity creatures fired up while still having early board presence (elves, scooze, etc) and a method of getting card advantage (domri, xeganos.)

I have absolutely no clue why the maindeck Ghor-Clans aren't Polukranos//Chandra, but I didn't test this list. All I know is, I'd be terrified of what happened when a control list learned what I was doing.

EDIT 2: Ewwww, he only has 11 green sources that come in untapped on turn 1.... At least this establishes that ember hauler is a boss.

 

[Keru_Shiri]

Not surprising to see Gruul Aggro chart-topping, and it will continue to do so for the first week or so. Anytime the format sees a big rotation, consistent aggro decks tend to win out, since they fair the best against all the crazy stuff people are trying to make work.

I will like to point out how hilarious it is that Ember Swallower is seeing play, given how much everyone was dogging it earlier, but then again, I was certain any mono-red list would be required to have Hammer of Purphoros somewhere in the 75 to make it the top so I stand corrected there.

 

[Lucario]

Not surprising to see Gruul Aggro chart-topping, and it will continue to do so for the first week or so. Anytime the format sees a big rotation, consistent aggro decks tend to win out, since they fair the best against all the crazy stuff people are trying to make work.

I will like to point out how hilarious it is that Ember Swallower is seeing play, given how much everyone was dogging it earlier, but then again, I was certain any mono-red list would be required to have Hammer of Purphoros somewhere in the 75 to make it the top so I stand corrected there.

What's weird is, the #1 list is mono-red -- no green at all -- and the gruul lists (with the exception of #3) look nothing like traditional aggro (or even kibler/saito aggro.) They're weird ramp lists with a few aggressive 1-2 drops, likely designed to beat other aggro lists, which then rely on Ember Hauler to dodge removal and blow out control/midrange.

It's pretty smart, honestly.

 

[Firemind]

Told you so Gruul is the path to ezytown.

 

[Scythesurge]

Hey guys, haven't posted on GAF in awhile but I've been lurking this thread for a few months now. Started playing MTG during the Urza block back in the day then took a break for >10 years and picked it back up during RTR due to friends playing. Very excited for Theros and looking to get into standard as I haven't kept up with the scene since I played in tournaments with my Fires of Yavimaya deck...lol.

I've been playing with a Junk/Rock (removal, Voice, Blood Baron, Obzedat, Desecration Demon, etc.) deck which has been awesome for the past few weeks but with the rotation my land situation has weakened substantially, so I'll likely put that deck aside until Golgari and Selesnya scrylands are out.

I basically have been agreeing with Lucario and others that Stormbreath (obv) and Underworld Cerberus will be very strong, so for competitive deck building I'm leaning toward Jund. Not worried about mana fixing with the Caryatids and Jund has the best removal and burn available. And having Thoughtseize in standard means that I pretty much have to run black! Also put together a Burger King deck because he seemed fun and I was actually able to win about 50% against my friend's new Gruul aggro deck so that's promising.

Anyway I've really liked reading all of your thoughts and strategies, it's been pretty interesting and thought provoking, so keep it up.