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[Angry Grimace]

I'm having a ton of fun looking through the card lists trying to come up with absurdly annoying kitchen table decks, like using Erebo's Whip on Giant Adephage.

 

[OnPoint]

I'm having a ton of fun looking through the card lists trying to come up with absurdly annoying kitchen table decks, like using Erebo's Whip on Giant Adephage.

Especially viable with something like this

This, with Elvish Mystic, Sylvan Caryatid, Grisly Salvage...

Hmm...

 

[joelseph]

What I'm sleeving up:

Judge's Familiar x 4
Frostborn Weird x 4
Nightveil Specter x 4
Thassa, God of the Sea x 2
Master of Waves x 4
Clone x 3

Swansong x 4
Mizzium Skin x 2
Dissolve x 4

Claustrophobia x 4

Civic Saber x 2

Mutavault x 2
Island x 21

Works on early blue devotion into Master of Waves on turn 5 with swan song and mizzium for protection. Saber on curve to pressure if no Masters in site.

 

[Firemind]

I kind of like Heliod in midrangey white-heavy builds -- possibly even in the main, but more than likely in the sideboard. Fiendslayer, Boros Reckoner, etc are just best friends with him, and he's impossible for control to deal with (short of the 'exile target white permanent' thing) unless he's active. He's also sweet in control mirrors as a difficult to deal with win condition -- likely one of the fastest you have.

Assemble the Legion will stop and eventually swarm poor old Heliod. :lol

 

[Angry Grimace]

Especially viable with something like this

This, with Elvish Mystic, Sylvan Caryatid, Grisly Salvage...

Hmm...

Not sure if one could work a Lotleth Troll in there or not :lol

 

[OnPoint]

Not sure if one could work a Lotleth Troll in there or not :lol

With the whip!!

 

[blindrocket]

I think the Whip of Erebos may be cool throwing this guy back onto the field. I had a lot of kitchen table fun with him.

 

[An-Det]

i was watching the SCG top eight but switched to the MTG deals legacy event.

the control mirrors were pretty boring to watch this weekend.

I did the same. It was nice to see Punishing Jund take that down, his Choke in game 2 of the finals was brutal.

Gods will crash hard soon. They just aren't good in constructed.

I could see Thassa see play as a 1 or 2-of in control decks, but they really are pretty awful in constructed.

 

[Angry Grimace]

With the whip!!

The problem with using Armada Wurm is that its only useful as an alternate for the Adephage, but you probably could just run 4 Adephage since it costs 50 cents as a single.

 

[kirblar]

Nice subtle interaction- Ashiok turns off your opponent's ability to scry.

 

[The Technomancer]

Hm, deckbuilding advice time. Some friends and I are doing a thing where we build themed decks each week to play in Cockatrice: this week's is "remake the first deck you ever built but better", which for me means G/W spirits. No restrictions on cards other then the Vintage/Legacy B/R lists. This is my first pass at it, what do you guys think?

Creature (18)
2xForked-Branch Garami
3xHarbinger of Spring
3xLoam Dweller
4xNiblis of the Urn
4xStrangleroot Geist
2xYosei, the Morning Star

Enchantment (6)
2xAngelic Destiny
1xBeastmaster Ascension
3xOblivion Ring

Enchantment Creature (4)
2xBoon Satyr
2xCelestial Archon

Instant (3)
3xUnchecked Growth

Planeswalker (2)
2xElspeth, Sun's Champion

Sorcery (3)
3xKodama's Reach

Land (24)
9xForest
7xPlains
4xSunpetal Grove
4xTemple Garden

 

[Wichu]

Hm, deckbuilding advice time. Some friends and I are doing a thing where we build themed decks each week to play in Cockatrice: this week's is "remake the first deck you ever built but better", which for me means G/W spirits. No restrictions on cards other then the Vintage/Legacy B/R lists. This is my first pass at it, what do you guys think?

Creature (18)
2xForked-Branch Garami
3xHarbinger of Spring
3xLoam Dweller
4xNiblis of the Urn
4xStrangleroot Geist
2xYosei, the Morning Star

Enchantment (6)
2xAngelic Destiny
1xBeastmaster Ascension
3xOblivion Ring

Enchantment Creature (4)
2xBoon Satyr
2xCelestial Archon

Instant (3)
3xUnchecked Growth

Planeswalker (2)
2xElspeth, Sun's Champion

Sorcery (3)
3xKodama's Reach

Land (24)
9xForest
7xPlains
4xSunpetal Grove
4xTemple Garden

First off, as you're using the legacy banlist, the landbase could be improved. Take out the Sunpetal Groves and a couple of basics, add in Savannahs and fetchlands.

Next, some of the cards don't seem very strong; for example, Forked-Branch Garami is a 5-mana 4/4 that only does something if it dies (and even then it can't return many of your creatures). I want to replace quite a bit of the deck; are there any cards you have to keep (e.g. cards that were centrepieces of the original deck)?

Finally, how fast are you expecting your friends' decks to be? This deck is pretty slow, going up to 6 mana (or even 7 if you include the Archon's bestow cost). Since you have access to any card, you should be able to make the deck quite a bit faster.

 

[EsotericManiac]

I did the same. It was nice to see Punishing Jund take that down, his Choke in game 2 of the finals was brutal.

it's especially good against the delver decks as they don't run basics and every non-basic land is an island. pretty much game over if they can reach board parity.

that UWr delver player was pretty bad tbh

 

[The Technomancer]

First off, as you're using the legacy banlist, the landbase could be improved. Take out the Sunpetal Groves and a couple of basics, add in Savannahs and fetchlands.

Next, some of the cards don't seem very strong; for example, Forked-Branch Garami is a 5-mana 4/4 that only does something if it dies (and even then it can't return many of your creatures). I want to replace quite a bit of the deck; are there any cards you have to keep (e.g. cards that were centrepieces of the original deck)?

Finally, how fast are you expecting your friends' decks to be? This deck is pretty slow, going up to 6 mana (or even 7 if you include the Archon's bestow cost). Since you have access to any card, you should be able to make the deck quite a bit faster.

The general philosophy when I was building it was that I wanted to at least somewhat focus on Kamigawa spirits since that was the focus of the original deck. However Kamigawa spirits really weren't all that good at aggression, so that led me to taking some more recent aggressive ones like the Nibilis and the Strangleroot that I could then get back with Soulshift and transform into better beaters with various enchantments. Unfortunately Forked Beanch and Harbinger of Spring are what I think are the two best Soulshift cards I can find, everything else either seems too cheap with a utility effect I can't see myself using or too expensive for a generic beater body

 

[EsotericManiac]

The general philosophy when I was building it was that I wanted to at least somewhat focus on Kamigawa spirits since that was the focus of the original deck. However Kamigawa spirits really weren't all that good at aggression, so that led me to taking some more recent aggressive ones like the Nibilis and the Strangleroot that I could then get back with Soulshift and transform into better beaters with various enchantments. Unfortunately Forked Beanch and Harbinger of Spring are what I think are the two best Soulshift cards I can find, everything else either seems too cheap with a utility effect I can't see myself using or too expensive for a generic beater body

I'd recommend checking out the legacy Maverick lists (G/W). They tend to use the best G/W creatures available. Lot's of synergy between creature abilities as well.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Will the whip activate this ability? Or does the kicker only count when you cast it from your hand?

 

[EsotericManiac]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";84191409]Will the whip activate this ability? Or does the kicker only count when you cast it from your hand?

[/QUOTE]

no

you aren't casting it

 

["God's Beard!"]

Oh well. There's always discarding It That Betrays or Blightsteel Colossus or whatever giant ass creature then pulling it with the whip on turn 3. Or Ashen Rider if you're going standard and playing with Obzedat.

 

[JulianImp]

I'd recommend checking out the legacy Maverick lists (G/W). They tend to use the best G/W creatures available. Lot's of synergy between creature abilities as well.

Wouldn't that be against the entire theme of their tournament, though, which wasn't ripping decklists from the web, but basically making an old deck of yours better?

Sadly, G/W spirits is kind of bad. If you went black you could use that one that drained life, or even go WUB for Drogskol Captain and Lingering Souls, enabling a more aggressive deck, but as it is, you probably won't have too much to do with those colors.

Here're some suggestions from a quick Gatherer search:

• Tallowisp: Has amazing synergy with aura creatures, and perhaps you could fit some powerful auras into your deck as a sub-theme
• Hopeful Eidolon: A new creature-aura that happens to be a spirit, as well
• Armadillo Cloak: A great aura you can search for that stacks, unlike Unflinching Courage, and you can also drop it on your opponent's creatures as a pseudo-Pacifism
• Ethereal Armor: Good if you're running enchantments
• Spectral Prison: A nice and cheap Propaganda effect
• Carven Caryatid: A nice blocker that cantrips
• Spirit En-Dal: Wears auras nicely, and can use its Forecast ability to punch some damage through later on
• Waxmane Baku: Not too strong, but still has a nice effect
• Celestial Crusader: A split-second, evasive anthem on a stick
• Hokori, Dust Drinker: A bit harsh, but a Winer Orb effect could be interesting if you were running Petalmane Baku.
• Phantom Centaur: Nice protections and a decent body
• Wall of Reverence: Blocks well. Gains you life every turn. Is a spirit.
• Windborn Muse: Spectral Prison on a spirit creature.
• Evershrike: It's hybrid, so you can cast it easily with white mana. Plays well with auras.
• Oversoul of Dusk: Weird, but kind of powerful, and easily castable in your deck
• Eternal Dragon: Gets you lands and is hard to get rid off.
• Swords to Plowshares/Path to Exile: Amazing creature removal you should be running.
• Rancor: Perhaps it won't work if you use a high curve, but it's one of the better creature auras you can run
• Faith's Fetters: Gains you life and neutralizes a threat. Also is an aura, so you can fetch it with Tallowisp

 

[The Technomancer]

Thanks, I'll look into all of those ^

 

[f0rk]

The first deck I built was U/R Delver for the Innistrad Game Day which was before Delver was cool. But I thought every deck needed to curve out and have a big bomb so it had 2 Inferno Titans in it.
Also I don't think I liked Ponder and didn't play it.

 

[Wichu]

The general philosophy when I was building it was that I wanted to at least somewhat focus on Kamigawa spirits since that was the focus of the original deck. However Kamigawa spirits really weren't all that good at aggression, so that led me to taking some more recent aggressive ones like the Nibilis and the Strangleroot that I could then get back with Soulshift and transform into better beaters with various enchantments. Unfortunately Forked Beanch and Harbinger of Spring are what I think are the two best Soulshift cards I can find, everything else either seems too cheap with a utility effect I can't see myself using or too expensive for a generic beater body

If you're set on soulshift, Iname, Life Aspect has a better soulshift-esque ability.

You could try a Yosei lock - pair it with a sacrifice outlet such as Greater Good and a reusable resurrection card such as Debtor's Knell or Adarkar Valkyrie, and you can lock you opponent out quite quickly. You'll want some ramp cards such as Noble Hierarch to help you get the mana, and some creature tutoring such as Eladamri's Call to find the pieces.

My brother plays the combo in his Saffi Eriksdotter commander deck; he uses Karmic Guide (a bonus Spirit!) and Reveillark as his combo pieces.
Sacrifice Saffi targeting Yosei, sacrifice Yosei to Greater Good or another sac outlet, sacrifice Karmic Guide to bring back Reveillark, then sacrifice Reveillark to bring back Karmic Guide and Saffi, bringing you back to where you started.
This combo is hard to assemble, but particularly vicious in that you can a) tap all their permanents in one turn, and b) each time you repeat it they skip one untap step - if you repeat it 10 times, they can't untap for 10 turns.

 

[OnPoint]

Thinking about going to SCG Cleveland this weekend.

What should I build that isn't going to break my wallet but still could win.

 

[Lucario]

Thinking about going to SCG Cleveland this weekend.

What should I build that isn't going to break my wallet but still could win.

RDW. If you want a better chance against U/W control, build a Fanatic of Mogis list. If you want to crush midrange, use firefist strikers and such.

The winning list from worcester works, but mutavaults, firedrinker satyrs and hammers of purphoros might want to replace some mountains/reckoners/burning-tree emissaries. It depends on which decks you're most afraid of.

There's also probably a 'big' list running Stormbreath Dragon somewhere.

 

[kirblar]

Thinking about going to SCG Cleveland this weekend.

What should I build that isn't going to break my wallet but still could win.

RDW. The push to weaken Sphinx's Revelation has left the format without a lot of good lifegain options.

Fanatic is very, very good and gives you reach you desperately need.

 

[EsotericManiac]

RDW would give you a lot of extra time as your rounds probably won't last very long

 

[Lucario]

having a hammer out when an opponent drops Supreme Verdict

then dropping Fanatic of Mogis and hitting in for 7 immediately

is just... gold.

 

[kirblar]

having a hammer out when an opponent drops Supreme Verdict

then dropping Fanatic of Mogis and hitting in for 7 immediately

is just... gold.

I love that I have a billion answers to the hammer in my deck.

Golgari Charm is so bad now vs them though with the winning list. Need to look into Pharika's Cure.

 

[Lucario]

I love that I have a billion answers to the hammer in my deck.

Golgari Charm is so bad now vs them though with the winning list. Need to look into Pharika's Cure.

You haven't already been running cure? Card's been good against me in testing.

The hammer hasn't picked up (yet), but when it does, you'll definitely be ready for it. Getting it hit with countermagic or a Detention Sphere doesn't feel too bad -- one forces them to tap out and probably means you're hitting for 4-6 that turn anyway, and the other is sorcery speed and means you may have already gotten some small amount of value out of it -- but EoT golgari charm killing it would suuuuuuuck.

 

[The Technomancer]

Damn I don't think Tallowisp can actually grab enchantment creatures

 

[Grakl]

Damn I don't think Tallowisp can actually grab enchantment creatures

I'd assume not, enchantment creatures aren't auras

 

[Scythesurge]

Damn I don't think Tallowisp can actually grab enchantment creatures

What about bestow creatures, since those cards enchant creatures?

 

[ultron87]

What about bestow creatures, since those cards enchant creatures?

It won't be an Aura except when on the Stack or on the Battlefield after casting it with Bestow. So you can't fetch one with that card.

 

[JulianImp]

Oh, sorry. I've never cared too much about bestow cards, so I didn't bother to see if it'd work.

Still, Tallowisp is a nice spirit you could use to grind some card advantage in a GW deck.

 

[Grakl]

oops nevermind

 

[The Technomancer]

It won't be an Aura except when on the Stack or on the Battlefield after casting it with Bestow. So you can't fetch one with that card.

Yeah that's what I was getting at. The Bestow creatures aren't Auras in the library.

 

[Lucario]

Oh, sorry. I've never cared too much about bestow cards, so I didn't bother to see if it'd work.

Still, Tallowisp is a nice spirit you could use to grind some card advantage in a GW deck.

Pacifism, Guard Duty, Arrest, etc.

Tallowisp can grab some totally sweet cards.

Sucks you can't go bant with this to run Drogskol Captains and other silly stuff, but there are still insane decks you can build in GW on a low budget.

 

[Lucario]

okay sorry I built the G/W spirits deck because I had a really silly idea

feel free to ignore it, but I really dig this:
Use Tallowisp + whichever spirit/arcane spells you want to grab removal (Faith's Fetters, Arrest, etc) and, when you have a Kami of False Hope available, Gift of Immortality.

Drop Gift of Immortality on your kami of false hope. Congrats -- barring countermagic or removal in response to the enchantment hitting the board, your opponent will never deal damage during their combat step again.

Gift can also hit your other creatures -- it's very capable of protecting tallowisp, etc. Most fun of all, though, is its interaction with Yosei.

Your opponent never gets an untap step as long as you have a sac outlet. If we're staying with old goofy sub-$1 cards, I strongly recommend Freyalise Supplicant.

Bam, G/W spirits is now a lockdown deck.

Preventing early aggressive decks from blowing you out: I recommend upping your more expensive cards (eternal derg, etc) to 4-ofs and running some Shining Shoals. Prevent all damage from one creature, kill another. It really is a sweet card. You can also start running some of the better removal available -- path to exile, etc -- but that isn't fun.

Redundancy -- Instead of something unfun like Worldly Tutor to grab combo pieces, you can just run more. It isn't pretty, but it sure works. Why not run spore frogs and kami of false hope?

 

[Scythesurge]

It won't be an Aura except when on the Stack or on the Battlefield after casting it with Bestow. So you can't fetch one with that card.

Yeah that's what I was getting at. The Bestow creatures aren't Auras in the library.

Ah gotcha. I see the Oracle text specifies auras, oh well.

 

[Angry Grimace]

So I'm totally making that gimmicky Giant Adephage/Whip deck, but I can't put together a cohesive deck to save my life. :'(

I've got Elvish Mystics, Sylvan Caryatid, ????, Lotleth Troll, Giant Adephage. I can't think of anything else that even really fits there. I saw a few people who made similar decks online who all seemed to put Erebos there, but I can't for the life of me figure out what the hell Erebos would even do, even in a deck as gimmicky as this one.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Man there just aren't that many creatures in standard worth discarding then whipping. I want some crazy shit, using eldrazi like elementals

So I'm totally making that gimmicky Giant Adephage/Whip deck, but I can't put together a cohesive deck to save my life. :'(

I've got Elvish Mystics, Sylvan Caryatid, ????, Lotleth Troll, Giant Adephage. I can't think of anything else that even really fits there. I saw a few people who made similar decks online who all seemed to put Erebos there, but I can't for the life of me figure out what the hell Erebos would even do, even in a deck as gimmicky as this one.

Mind Rots/Thoughtsiezes and DRSs?

Turn 1: Elvish Mystic
Turn 2: Mind Rot yourself(Giant Adephage + Land)
Turn 3: Whip + DRS
Turn 4: whip Giant Adephage + Thoughtsieze/whatever


edit: Can you use Duress to exile a God from someone's hand if their devotion requirement isn't met?

 

[divisionbyzorro]

So I'm totally making that gimmicky Giant Adephage/Whip deck, but I can't put together a cohesive deck to save my life. :'(

I've got Elvish Mystics, Sylvan Caryatid, ????, Lotleth Troll, Giant Adephage. I can't think of anything else that even really fits there. I saw a few people who made similar decks online who all seemed to put Erebos there, but I can't for the life of me figure out what the hell Erebos would even do, even in a deck as gimmicky as this one.

Grisly Salvage, and the Theros counterpart (snags a creature or enchantment).

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";84229231]edit: Can you use Duress to exile a God from someone's hand if their devotion requirement isn't met?[/QUOTE]

It's still a creature card. The devotion clause only matters if it's on the battlefield. So, no you can't.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Grisly Salvage, and the Theros counterpart (snags a creature or enchantment).



It's still a creature card. The devotion clause only matters if it's on the battlefield. So, no you can't.

Spells I think I have covered. I'm just going to run Duress, Golgari Charm, Commune with the Gods (the Grisly Salvage equivalent, which lets you retrieve the whip since its an enchantment) and a couple of other things (Ranger's Guile to get the first attack off before a Doom Blade? idk there). I suppose Thoughtseize is better than Duress but I'm not sure I want to put $80 of cards into a deck running a Giant Adephage :lol Same reason I was sort of hoping the other creature I could stick in there was something other than Deathrite Shaman.

 

[OnPoint]

Spells I think I have covered. I'm just going to run Duress, Golgari Charm, Commune with the Gods (the Grisly Salvage equivalent, which lets you retrieve the whip since its an enchantment) and a couple of other things (Ranger's Guile to get the first attack off before a Doom Blade? idk there). I suppose Thoughtseize is better than Duress but I'm not sure I want to put $80 of cards into a deck running a Giant Adephage :lol Same reason I was sort of hoping the other creature I could stick in there was something other than Deathrite Shaman.

That $80 could be the difference between the deck working and the deck not, in many jank builds. To be fair, I'm thinking of building one of these as well lol

 

[An-Det]

Went 3-1 in Legacy tonight with Punishing Jund. In order I played against UG 12 Post, UWr RIP/Helm Miracles (my loss), UWR Young Delver, and Elves. R1 I Hymn'ed him out of both games. R2 game 1 was a grind but I lost, game 2 was a quick win for me, and game 3 was long and drawn out, losing in turn 4 of turns to an Entreat. Great game though. Round 3 I burned everything in game 1 and locked him out of white and played Engineered Plague on Humans in game 2. Round 4 went to 3 games, first I won easily, second was close but didn't get there. Game 3 I was on the play and dropped lands first two turns. On his second turn he dropped 6 elves, and I end of turn Fired the Deathrite, and then on my turn I Golgari Charmed his board away and went on to win.

I ended up getting 4th since my breakers weren't great, but it was great just playing there. I really need to add in another 1-2 Abrupt Decays though, since I mostly can't deal with things unless I burn it. I'm only running 1 since the rest of mine are still loaned out so I need to pick up a few more.

it's especially good against the delver decks as they don't run basics and every non-basic land is an island. pretty much game over if they can reach board parity.

that UWr delver player was pretty bad tbh

Yeah, that's how I usually win against Delver decks, cut them off from a color and they're often just done. That's how I won against a Young Delver list tonight, I Wastelanded their Tundras (keeping him off of Geist/STP/SFM), and landed an Engineered Plague on Humans so their Delver/Pyromancer was useless. It wasn't even fair.

 

[Yeef]

I think Thoughtseize will go down. Maybe as low as 12~15. I don't think it'll stay there long once we move on to the next block, but during Theros standard, I just can't see it holding at the $25 range.

 

[Angry Grimace]

That $80 could be the difference between the deck working and the deck not, in many jank builds. To be fair, I'm thinking of building one of these as well lol

I suppose, but Duress is a reasonable substitute in kitchen table games I think. At the point I'm putting Thoughtseize and full Overgrown Tombs in, I might as well just put the extra 50 bucks for a competitive non-gimmick deck. I just like Whip of Erebos because its a fun mechanic and a playset of the whips cost me 7 bucks.

I think Thoughtseize will go down. Maybe as low as 12~15. I don't think it'll stay there long once we move on to the next block, but during Theros standard, I just can't see it holding at the $25 range.

Its not even 25 now, its like 20. You can find them even cheaper on eBay too, but I get the impression a lot of people are a little gunshy of buying cards on eBay.

 

[bigkrev]

I think Thoughtseize will go down. Maybe as low as 12~15. I don't think it'll stay there long once we move on to the next block, but during Theros standard, I just can't see it holding at the $25 range.

Mutavault is it's parallel, I just grabbed 2 off of Amazon for 10 bucks each

 

[y2dvd]

Mutavault is it's parallel, I just grabbed 2 off of Amazon for 10 bucks each

Shit, I think I need to jump on this. Mutavault is too universal of a card.

Did a six man draft last night. The things people were pulling next to me - 2 Xenagos, one of them being foil, a Thoughtseize, the Purphoros God, the Purphoros hammer...and my most valued pull was a Gift of Immortality. Some people have all the luck in the world, or rather I have none. -_-

 

[OnPoint]

Man y2, that's frustrating. I know that feel