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Magic: the GAFering |OT2|
- Thread starter The Technomancer
- Start date
Scythesurge
Member
I only got one Magma Jet in my box
I traded for three other ones though so it's ok. I also recently bought up Mutavaults since the price is relatively low for them and there are a lot of decks I can use them in."God's Beard!"
Member
If I was playing the whip, I'd probably make something like this:
4 Guul-Draz Assassin/Deathrite Shaman
4 Thoughtsieze
4 Bloodghast
3 Phyrexian Arena
4 Mind Rot
4 Whip of Erebos
3 Hero's Downfall
3 Phyrexian Obliterator
3 Liliana of the Dark Realms
3 Griselbrand
3 It that Betrays
18 Swamps
3 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Guul-Draz Assassin/Deathrite Shaman
4 Thoughtsieze
4 Bloodghast
3 Phyrexian Arena
4 Mind Rot
4 Whip of Erebos
3 Hero's Downfall
3 Phyrexian Obliterator
3 Liliana of the Dark Realms
3 Griselbrand
3 It that Betrays
18 Swamps
3 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Scythesurge
Member
Even in a mono-colored deck I'd only run two Nykthos max. The only time I'd ever want to see two of them would be to ramp into something nasty.
EsotericManiac
Banned
you'd probably need a few discard outlets that aren't mind rot.
seems like you'd want that could play defense in bloodghast's slot. your deck isn't overly aggressive
seems like you'd want that could play defense in bloodghast's slot. your deck isn't overly aggressive
"God's Beard!"
Member
What's the best option? Funeral Charm? I could use Raven's Cry for sure if I used the DRSs, but I really like Guul-Draz Assassin :-(
I could probably replace the Mind Rots with Wrench Minds since I'm using them on myself more often than not. Or pulling teeth since it lets me discard at least 1 and scry 1.
I guess the best option is replacing my Liliana of the Dark Realms with Liliana of the Veil, but that's super duper expensive :-(
Really? Even with the urborg helping out?
Yeah, I'm definitely weak on creatures but I don't know what the best option is. A regenerator or Tenacious Dead?
EsotericManiac
Banned
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";84326701]What's the best option? Funeral Charm? I could use Raven's Cry for sure if I used the DRSs, but I really like Guul-Draz Assassin :-(
I could probably replace the Mind Rots with Wrench Minds since I'm using them on myself more often than not. Or pulling teeth since it lets me discard at least 1 and scry 1.
I guess the best option is replacing my Liliana of the Dark Realms with Liliana of the Veil, but that's super duper expensive :-(
Really? Even with the urborg helping out?
Yeah, I'm definitely weak on creatures but I don't know what the best option is. A regenerator or Tenacious Dead?[/QUOTE]
liliana would definitely help the deck out a bunch and is exactly the sort of thing you're looking for
she's really the second best PW ever so i'd seriously consider picking them up slowly. you won't be disappointed.
i'm not sure what would be optimal in your 2 slot but you deck is removal light and minimally impacting the board until you get to 4 mana. chances are you'd want to block before then as opposed to attacking with something that can't block
I could probably replace the Mind Rots with Wrench Minds since I'm using them on myself more often than not. Or pulling teeth since it lets me discard at least 1 and scry 1.
I guess the best option is replacing my Liliana of the Dark Realms with Liliana of the Veil, but that's super duper expensive :-(
Really? Even with the urborg helping out?
Yeah, I'm definitely weak on creatures but I don't know what the best option is. A regenerator or Tenacious Dead?[/QUOTE]
liliana would definitely help the deck out a bunch and is exactly the sort of thing you're looking for
she's really the second best PW ever so i'd seriously consider picking them up slowly. you won't be disappointed.
i'm not sure what would be optimal in your 2 slot but you deck is removal light and minimally impacting the board until you get to 4 mana. chances are you'd want to block before then as opposed to attacking with something that can't block
So Punishing Fire is a thing now in legacy. Interesting. I wonder how blue based control can deal with it. Vendillion Clique, Coffin Purge, Purify the Grave are narrow answers given they can respond with enough mana and burnwillows.
EsotericManiac
Banned
Punishing Fire has seen fringe play in legacy for some time. The jund deck changed there mana base to include this combo which helped a bunch.
decks with rest in peace do well against it obviously as long as they can keep bob off the table
miracles actually has a good matchup against jund, especially with misdirection. it's normally correct to side out hymm against that deck knowing that
My lgs opened up 126 packs and only got 3 Magma Jets outta them. It's more rare than Xenagos apparently lol.
Scythesurge
Member
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";84326701]Really? Even with the urborg helping out?[/QUOTE]
Well, the way I see it with the list you have now is that you have a lot of drawing power with a lot of legendary cards. Running multiples of Whip, Liliana, Nykthos, and Griselbrand means you're probably going to end up with 'dead' cards in hand pretty often. I don't really see Urborg helping out Nykthos directly other than allowing it to produce black mana without needing two for the devotion ability, which at that point is just making it into a swamp.
I do really like the idea of using the whip in conjunction with stuff like Griselbrand and Arena, but maybe add some more creatures to synergize with the whip? Maybe like Gravecrawler or Bloodghast?
Well, the way I see it with the list you have now is that you have a lot of drawing power with a lot of legendary cards. Running multiples of Whip, Liliana, Nykthos, and Griselbrand means you're probably going to end up with 'dead' cards in hand pretty often. I don't really see Urborg helping out Nykthos directly other than allowing it to produce black mana without needing two for the devotion ability, which at that point is just making it into a swamp.
I do really like the idea of using the whip in conjunction with stuff like Griselbrand and Arena, but maybe add some more creatures to synergize with the whip? Maybe like Gravecrawler or Bloodghast?
Misdirection costs zero mana, compared to Divert's 1
Misdirection is infinitely better
EsotericManiac
Banned
in certain decks, sure.
the fact it has an alternate cost for one. it's also a hard counter to a counter. divert would be more acceptable in an 18 or 19 land deck like delver that is 3 colors.
divert was used in some SBs. misdirection is often MD in miracles
misdirection isn't infinitely better, mind you since you are spending an extra card.
there are pros and cons to each really
edit : most blue directs run some number of spell pierces. only the tempo decks really run stifle. spell snare is usually a 1 of, if any, with one in the board. the decks that use misdirection rarely run anything else besides pierce from the cards you listed
Thanks for the explanation. I like Spell Snare as a two-of, as a cheap, hard counter against goyf, snapcaster, stoneforge etc. especially on the draw. I played Spell Pierce in the board, but frankly I already have a good combo matchup post board. Stifle is mainly used in Wasteland decks, I concur.
Stupid, haymaking Jund has to ruin everything.
Stupid, haymaking Jund has to ruin everything.
EsotericManiac
Banned
snare is good against goyf, but snapcaster really isn't played much and you could always pierce his target. he really doesn't impact the board.
snare is good against certain matchups, but overall, i find it worse than pierce
EsotericManiac
Banned
normally abrupt decay with possibly 1 or 2 maelstroms
i would always play liliana as it's rarely bad against any deck.
I play all of those, 2-3 decays, 1 pulse, 4 lili, 3 fires. I can post my full list when I get home if you'd like.
EsotericManiac
Banned
he mentioned something about playing B/U control
but do it either way
but do it either way
Because Legacy can't grow. They need to push it harder on MTGO, where PTQs would be amazing.
EsotericManiac
Banned
legacy is really my format of choice. i really don't play anything else anymore.
i might branch into vintage tournaments that let you 10 proxy
i might branch into vintage tournaments that let you 10 proxy
EsotericManiac
Banned
There are a lot of players who don't know what they're looking for when they tutor, can't quickly resolve brainstorm/ponderr, etc. Makes you want a Chess Clock.
EsotericManiac
Banned
i wish they would add chess clocks tbh
generally, if you don't know what you're looking for, you shouldn't be casting those spells anyway
It comes up most with Landstill, but that's probably because I'm a bad player.
EsotericManiac
Banned
in U/W miracles you play a lot of land/go but you wouldn't take 3 minutes to do so.
only time i can think of you doing nothing and thinking for a long time is when you are trying to play around all types of counterspells and deciding if you can afford to wait to play around them or not.
EsotericManiac
Banned
i think any format you aren't comfortable with can be mentally exhausting. i've played RUG delver for over 2 years straight. there really isn't a matchup i havent played before and already have a SB strategy for.
standard nowadays would probably be like this for me since I haven't played that format for 3 years
edit : I think chess clocks should be included, at least for GPs and sanctioned events like that for a few reasons. I don't think a person should be able to monopolize the clock during a 50 minute match more so than the other just because he/she plays aggro
i think it's beautiful how it's used online.
this would lessen the time in each round as you wouldn't have people going to time
"God's Beard!"
Member
If I have a Raven's cry in the graveyard and I'm tapped out, can I discard a land then exile that same land with DRS to pay the casting cost?
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";84365177]If I have a Raven's cry in the graveyard and I'm tapped out, can I discard a land then exile that same land with DRS to pay the casting cost?[/QUOTE]
That won't work.
Deathrite's ability isn't a mana ability (because it has a target) so it has to go on the stack. This means you have to do it before you start casting the spell so that you have the mana floating when it comes time to pay the mana cost. But you have discard the land to retrace during the casting process.
That won't work.
Deathrite's ability isn't a mana ability (because it has a target) so it has to go on the stack. This means you have to do it before you start casting the spell so that you have the mana floating when it comes time to pay the mana cost. But you have discard the land to retrace during the casting process.
"God's Beard!"
Member
well, funeral charms and liliana it is lol
Punishing fire has been a thing for quite a bit of time in legacy now. It's a cycle. When maverick rose as one of the top decks, Mavericks started splashing red for punishing fires as it was pretty good in the mirror and they had KotR to tutor for the groves. Then terminus was printed, and UW control suddendly had a good matchup against Maverick. As an answer to UW and Tempo, BG based midrange arose, on the back of DRS and Abrupt Decay (it was already a deck before, mainly thanks to liliana, but DRS was what made Jund as a viable choice).
As an answer to BG midrange, people started playing more combo (SnT and ElveS!). Elves! in particular got a big boost from the new legend rules, allowing multiple copies of Gaea' Cradle to be more effective.
At this point, Red became the splash of choice in BG midrange (and thus Jund). What's good against blue combo? REB. What's good against Elves! Punishing fire. What's good in the mirror? Punishing fire. What's amazing against BUG cascade? Punishing fire. So yeah punishing fires came back.
However, if people start playing too much removal and "fair" cards like burn spells, combo will rise again. SnT is still a prominent combo. MonoRed Sneak attack is also a deck, and while slightly more inconsistent, it has some absurdly strong openings (Tomb into chalice into T2 win). Jund is still unfavoured against those.
Very helpful. Thanks. Jund can board in discard and leylines and liliana takes care of emrakul. Though I imagine griselbrand is very difficult to stop.
Which is why I like decks that use fow. Some Maverick openings are hard to beat though. Same with RUG and to a lesser extent Zoo.
Which is why I like decks that use fow. Some Maverick openings are hard to beat though. Same with RUG and to a lesser extent Zoo.
EsotericManiac
Banned
as long as you deal with mom, you can answer anything
unless you play RUG delver and they play knight of the reliquary 3 turns in a row
blindrocket
Member
I haven't played Modern before (or Jund in any format) but the typical Jund decks in Modern right now just really appeal to me. I think that I want to get into it with a Jund deck. Some really cool cards!
I really like Modern, I just wish Wizards would let it breathe a little. Unban the chaff from the banned list, dont be so strict on the Turn 4 rule, and let the format balance itself out like Legacy does; cull something if it's needed or format warping, not because it doesn't fit their ideal magical format. Having so few actual events hurts though, since each seems so major and dont provide a consistent data to gauge the format's health.
This is my current Punishing Jund list. I've been thinking about taking out the 4th Wasteland for the 3rd Abrupt Decay (most lists run 23 lands and 3 Wastelands), but since the rest of my Decays are loaned out I haven't tried it out yet.
Code:
4 Dark Confidant
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Bloodbraid Elf
3 Tarmogoyf
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Liliana of the Veil
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Punishing Fire
3 Hymn to Tourach
4 Thoughtseize
1 Sylvan Library
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Bloodstained Mire
1 Swamp
1 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Taiga
2 Bayou
2 Badlands
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Wasteland
Sideboard:
2 Duress
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Engineered Plague
1 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Life from the Loam
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Krosan Grip
1 Golgari Charm
2 Slaughter Gamesblindrocket
Member
Are you guys noticing Theros prices dropping? I read on at least one card selling site that they had dropped their prices on Theros.
Anger of the Gods is $5 and Fleecemane Lion is priced at $8. Still seems kind of expensive for something that has just come out... but maybe not. Scry lands are $4.50 each. Underworld Cerberus - $5, Xenagos - $18
I don't know if it's time to buy or to still wait a bit longer. My new decks are currently RtR block so I don't exactly NEED anything right now.
Anger of the Gods is $5 and Fleecemane Lion is priced at $8. Still seems kind of expensive for something that has just come out... but maybe not. Scry lands are $4.50 each. Underworld Cerberus - $5, Xenagos - $18
I don't know if it's time to buy or to still wait a bit longer. My new decks are currently RtR block so I don't exactly NEED anything right now.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Ok, based on all of your advice, here's a revised decklist. I brought down the mana curve by swapping the Mind Rots with Funeral Charms and Liliana OTDR with Liliana OTV. Liliana and Pack Rat both increase the number of discard engines, and Pack Rat also increases my defense by generating tokens, and I stuck a few Swarmyards and Mutavaults in there for rat synergy. This also increases the usability of my dead cards. Any other observations?
4 Typhoid Rats
4 Thoughtsieze
4 Funeral Charm
4 Pack Rat
3 Phyrexian Arena
3 Doomed Necromancer
3 Hero's Downfall
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Whip of Erebos
3 Phyrexian Obliterator
2 Griselbrand
3 It that Betrays
13 Swamps
3 Swarmyard
2 Mutavault
2 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Typhoid Rats
4 Thoughtsieze
4 Funeral Charm
4 Pack Rat
3 Phyrexian Arena
3 Doomed Necromancer
3 Hero's Downfall
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Whip of Erebos
3 Phyrexian Obliterator
2 Griselbrand
3 It that Betrays
13 Swamps
3 Swarmyard
2 Mutavault
2 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Cards are still too expensive, although the preditable falls (Xenagos, gods, etc) already happened. Give it another few weeks before everything tanks, and it'll all bottom out in the coming months.
The first-wave supply issues sets normally have aren't there. They actually printed enough product this time, hence prices crashing faster.
There are very few cards on the ban list that are potentially safe. Of the cards not on the initial list, only BBE will probably get another shot, in an era where DRS is gone. Ancestral Vision, Bitterblossom, Golgari-Grave troll all might work. But nothing else really would, because they're all banned for a very good reason (and Goyf really should have been on the Day 1 list, as it's hugely oppressive.)
Not trying to crap on you or be mean- but this line of thought is so amazingly prevalent and ignorant and it's amazing how many people don't understand that the format doesn't have ways of policing those things you want unbanned. Modern can't be Legacy because it can't make a deck like RUG Delver work.
There are very few cards on the ban list that are potentially safe. Of the cards not on the initial list, only BBE will probably get another shot, in an era where DRS is gone. Ancestral Vision, Bitterblossom, Golgari-Grave troll all might work. But nothing else really would, because they're all banned for a very good reason (and Goyf really should have been on the Day 1 list, as it's hugely oppressive.)
"God's Beard!"
Member
For a brief moment I considered Dark Confidant, then I remembered I had Eldrazi cards in my deck.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Random question: Why did they get rid of Llanowar Elves and replace it with a functionally identical card? So you can run full decks of Llanowar Elves in modern or something?
Yup. Thoughtseize is around $17-18, and it was like $20 like three days ago. I shoulda put that foil Shrine to Nyx on eBay on launch day.
Yup. Thoughtseize is around $17-18, and it was like $20 like three days ago. I shoulda put that foil Shrine to Nyx on eBay on launch day.
a) Llanowar is a reference to Dominaria, a plane that's kinda not being actively referenced/used right now because of the Time Spiral mess.
b) Creative likes singular nouns on cheap weenie creatures.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I find that to be kind of, well, lame, since I bet there are more people who enjoy the history of having an Alpha creature still in print than there are people who care about whether Llanowar Elves could thematically exist on Ravnica within the Duels of the Planeswalker game.
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