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Magic: the GAFering |OT2|

J

JulianImp

Member
PsionBolt said:
I submitted:

Millow Fort
Whenever a creature attacks you or a planeswalker you control, put a charge counter on ~.
At the beginning of your upkeep, target player puts the top X cards of his or her library into his or her graveyard, where X is the number of charge counters on ~.

Not sure on specifics, but I wanted something like Blood Reckoning + Mill. Doing it with charge counters has the weird side effect of encouraging alpha strikes, which I find really interesting on a pillow fort card.
Click to expand...

While I personally love milling, I think taxing through milling doesn't seem like black's slice of the color pie. Blue likes regular milling while black tends to extract specific cards (ie: Cranial/Surgical Extraction), even if black does have taxing effects every now and then. I guess it could've been more like:

Millow Fort v1.1
Whenever a creature attacks you or a PW you control, destroy it at end of combat unless its controller [discards a card / exiles two cards from his or her graveyard].

While being more on-color, it would've probably been better for constructed as well. I'm not sure if it should offer one of the tax choices or both, though.
 
K

Keru_Shiri

Member
I'm going to throw out some YMTC ideas as I think of them, feedback appreciated!

Depraved Contract 1BB
Enchantment
As an additional cost to cast ~, sacrifice a White creature.
Put a 5/5 black Demon creature token with flying into play.
At the beginning of your upkeep, if you control no Demon creatures, Depraved Contract deals 5 damage to you.
Sacrifice 3 white creatures: Put a 5/5 black Demon creature token with flying into play.

(That may be too many lines of text)
 
U

ultron87

Member
Keru_Shiri said:
Depraved Contract 1BB
Click to expand...

I like the general idea but I think you're putting too many restrictions on it. Making it only playable in a Black/White deck makes it really tough for to include it in a random set. Obviously it is way better if it just says "sacrifice a creature" but that can be balanced by mana cost and numbers. Also, I'd say lose life instead of damage.
 
P

PsionBolt

Member
JulianImp said:
While I personally love milling, I think taxing through milling doesn't seem like black's slice of the color pie. Blue likes regular milling while black tends to extract specific cards (ie: Cranial/Surgical Extraction), even if black does have taxing effects every now and then. I guess it could've been more like:

Millow Fort v1.1
Whenever a creature attacks you or a PW you control, destroy it at end of combat unless its controller [discards a card / exiles two cards from his or her graveyard].

While being more on-color, it would've probably been better for constructed as well. I'm not sure if it should offer one of the tax choices or both, though.
Click to expand...

Though definitely secondarily to blue, mill is totally on color for black. It's true that it's never been a form of taxation before (to my knowledge), but that was kind of the point.
I also find it funny that your revision is still named Millow Fort even though it doesn't mill, ha. Your version is a lot closer to No Mercy.

Keru_Shiri said:
I'm going to throw out some YMTC ideas as I think of them, feedback appreciated!

Depraved Contract 1BB
Enchantment
As an additional cost to cast ~, sacrifice a White creature.
Put a 5/5 black Demon creature token with flying into play.
At the beginning of your upkeep, if you control no Demon creatures, Depraved Contract deals 5 damage to you.
Sacrifice 3 white creatures: Put a 5/5 black Demon creature token with flying into play.

(That may be too many lines of text)
Click to expand...

It's 9 lines of tiny text in Magic Set Editor, so yeah, that's too much. I don't think I've seen a modern-bordered card with more than 7 lines, though I might be mistaken. (Edit - I was, some have 8. Still looking for a 9 though.)

As for the effect, it's kind of neat, but it also kind of seems like it should just be the 5/5 demon creature instead of making a token, with the life loss drawback then being for no other demons.
 
K

kirblar

Member
Zswmkf


From Twitter.
 
J

JulianImp

Member
Keru_Shiri said:
I'm going to throw out some YMTC ideas as I think of them, feedback appreciated!

Depraved Contract 1BB
Enchantment
As an additional cost to cast ~, sacrifice a White creature.
Put a 5/5 black Demon creature token with flying into play.
At the beginning of your upkeep, if you control no Demon creatures, Depraved Contract deals 5 damage to you.
Sacrifice 3 white creatures: Put a 5/5 black Demon creature token with flying into play.

(That may be too many lines of text)
Click to expand...

Forcing white creatures could be a bit too restrictive, but I think the card is nice, and could work. Direct damage is a demon-y thing to do, but on an enchantment itself it sounds off, and could be changed to life loss. Here's my attempt:

Depraved Contract 1BB
Enchantment
At the beginning of your upkeep, if you control no Demon creatures, you lose 5 life.
Sacrifice three non-Demon creatures: Put a 5/5 black Demon creature token with flying onto the battlefield.

This way the card gives you some tension if you try to rush it out without enough creatures to power it, and would probably fit nicely word-wise. It could also use a new (unique) creature type to make sure it only doesn't hurt you if you summon some of its tokens; otherwise, it'd work fine as some sort of tribal enchantment. The non-demon clause could be removed if you want to make it fit for a demon tribal deck as well.

EDIT: Pasting previous double post

PsionBolt said:
Though definitely secondarily to blue, mill is totally on color for black. It's true that it's never been a form of taxation before (to my knowledge), but that was kind of the point.
I also find it funny that your revision is still named Millow Fort even though it doesn't mill, ha. Your version is a lot closer to No Mercy.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but I was thinking along the lines that it's too slow of an effect to be viable in constructed. There's no way milling a card per attack will let you mill them out unless they attack with 0/1s (20 counters = dead).

What if you'd get grudge counters equal to the combat damage dealt to you or your PWs, and you could use them either for milling or for building up a Haunting Echoes-like effect?

Da-yum at that hydra! I have fond memories of my Molten Hydra, and this seems like its ridiculously overpowered cousin, ready to take some names and turn limited games on their head, while still being an interesting constructed card. I'm definitely going to look for it, and I'm glad most of the card that are being spoiled are really interesting additions to the guild's card pools.
 
J

JulianImp

Member
Legion's Initiative RW
Enchantment (MR)
Red creatures you control get +1/+0.
White creatures you control get +0/+1.
RW, Exile Legion's Initiative: Exile all creatures you control. At the beginning of the next combat, return those cards to the battlefield under their owner's control and those creatures gains haste until end of turn.
Artist: Jaime Jones
Card No: 81?/156

A cheap, mini-Balefire Liege effect that can be used to dodge wraths all day? Yes, please.

I tend to hate the color combination boros represents, but I love this card.

EDIT: Heh, kirblar beats us to the punch once again. >_>
 
U

ultron87

Member
I love that card but don't like it as a Mythic at all. I feel like having 10 rare champions pushed some other stuff into Mythic.

The Hydra is much more appropriate there. Sweet spot is probably 5 mana? So it can't get Pillar of Flamed and can attack as a 5/5 or 6/6 double strike on the next turn?
 
S

sammich

Member
JulianImp said:
Legion's Initiative RW
Enchantment (MR)
Red creatures you control get +1/+0.
White creatures you control get +0/+1.
RW, Exile Legion's Initiative: Exile all creatures you control. At the beginning of the next combat, return those cards to the battlefield under their owner's control and those creatures gains haste until end of turn.
Artist: Jaime Jones
Card No: 81?/156

A cheap, mini-Balefire Liege effect that can be used to dodge wraths all day? Yes, please.

I tend to hate the color combination boros represents, but I love this card.

EDIT: Heh, kirblar beats us to the punch once again. >_>
Click to expand...


And.. another HOLY SHIT..

damn.. this expansion has be a heck of a lot more excited than GTC was. About as much as RTR i would say.
 
J

JulianImp

Member
sammich said:
And.. another HOLY SHIT..

damn.. this expansion has be a heck of a lot more excited than GTC was. About as much as RTR i would say.
Click to expand...

I'd say even more than that, mostly thanks to the chance of getting shocklands as free rares. Stuff like Innistrad/Dark Ascension's double-faced cards and Time Spiral's timeshifted sub-set were really fun and added a lot more excitement to opening packs, and even if you aren't so lucky you'll end up with a guildgate, which I'd rather have over even more basic land (ugh... just the though of it annoys me).
 
J

JulianImp

Member
bigkrev said:
That second part seems like a really lazy way to give wraith prevention, like Frontline Medic.

Awesome card though.
Click to expand...

Well, the Medic doesn't protect you from wraths, since most board wipes are sorcery-speed.

After taking a second look at the card... Could it be the enchantment returns itself alongisde the creatures? I'm confused, since exiling the enchantment as a cost rather than sacrificing it would make little to no sense otherwise.
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
JulianImp said:
Well, the Medic doesn't protect you from wraths, since most board wipes are sorcery-speed.

After taking a second look at the card... Could it be the enchantment returns itself alongisde the creatures? I'm confused, since exiling the enchantment as a cost rather than sacrificing it would make little to no sense otherwise.
Click to expand...

Nah I think the exiling part is just them trying to play it safe and prevent someone breaking it by repeatedly returning it from the graveyard
 
K

Keru_Shiri

Member
Both the Hydra and Boros Initiative seem crazy good. I can definitely see myself testing out a couple of Hydras in my Gruul Aggro deck.

I read all the responses to my YMTC, and thank you! With the suggestions in mind, here's what I'm thinking...

Depraved Contract BBB
Enchantment
At the beginning of your upkeep, if you control no Demon creatures, you lose 5 life.
Sacrifice 3 creatures: put a 5/5 black flying Demon creature on to the battlefield.

PsionBolt said:
As for the effect, it's kind of neat, but it also kind of seems like it should just be the 5/5 demon creature instead of making a token, with the life loss drawback then being for no other demons.
Click to expand...
True. I was sort of shooting for a spiritual successor to Sarcomancy.
 
P

PsionBolt

Member
JulianImp said:
After taking a second look at the card... Could it be the enchantment returns itself alongisde the creatures? I'm confused, since exiling the enchantment as a cost rather than sacrificing it would make little to no sense otherwise.
Click to expand...

I'm almost positive it doesn't. Otherwise, exiling it would be part of the effect and not the cost, I think. plus, that would make it absolutely ridiculously powerful.

Keru_Shiri said:
True. I was sort of shooting for a spiritual successor to Sarcomancy.
Click to expand...
Yeah, that makes sense. The idea being that it sticks around to damage you if the creature gets removed. I like your newest version quite a lot, much more elegant.
 
N

narcosis219

Member
kirblar said:
540653_460802717335930_1631070338_n.jpg

From Facebook. That's a crazy good card for Boros Aggro.
Click to expand...

So if you have 7 mana you can cast thragtusk, flicker your creatures giving you at least a 3/3 beast then swing with thragtusk too? And gain 10 life? Lolol

Alternatively, if you pooped out 2 or 3 bte they all give you mana
 
F

FieryBalrog

Member
It does mess with your army if you're using tokens to turn on Battalion, though.

Also it should just give red and white creatures +1/+0, giving +0/+1 is 99% useless and just feels like a fuck-you to white. Hello Argus Kos.

Decent card all said. Sadly, the best thing is probably using this to play Entering: The Battlefield.
 
K

Keru_Shiri

Member
FieryBalrog said:
It does mess with your army if you're using tokens to turn on Battalion, though.

Also it should just give red and white creatures +1/+0, giving +0/+1 is 99% useless and just feels like a fuck-you to white. Hello Argus Kos.

Decent card all said. Sadly, the best thing is probably using this to play Entering: The Battlefield.
Click to expand...

I agree, but I'm guessing they did it that way for casuals who will get excited when they discover that a creature that's both red and white gets +1/+1.

narcosis219 said:
Add in hunt masters, restoration angels, etc
Click to expand...
Blegh, I can see it now, though maybe with all these different creature types, Cavern won't help them out as much.
 
U

ultron87

Member
Alright, here's my first YMTC draft:
Faustian Bargain X(Mana Cost)

Faustian Bargain enters the battlefield with X Debt Counters on it.

At the beginning of your upkeep, remove a Debt Counter from Faustian Bargain and draw a card.

If Faustian Bargain has no Debt Counters on it, sacrifice it and put a 5/5 indestructible demon token with flying onto the battlefield under an opponent’s control.
Click to expand...

Ideally I'd like the demon to have to attack you every turn and I'd like blowing the enchantment up to summon him early, but that all puts too many words on the card. And it already feels really long. Though I like that black, on its own, can't really get out of it by killing the enchantment or the creature. But if it has other colors to help it can finagle a way out of the deal.
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
ultron87 said:
Alright, here's my first YMTC draft:


Ideally I'd like the demon to have to attack you every turn and I'd like blowing the enchantment up to summon him early, but that all puts too many words on the card. And it already feels really long.
Click to expand...

Could you modify it just slightly to be
Faustian Bargain X(Mana Cost)

Faustian Bargain enters the battlefield with X Debt Counters on it.

At the beginning of your upkeep, remove a Debt Counter from Faustian Bargain and draw a card. If Faustian Bargain has no Debt Counters on it, sacrifice it. When Faustian Bargain leaves play put a 5/5 indestructible demon token with flying onto the battlefield under an opponent’s control.
Click to expand...

Only five more words
 
U

ultron87

Member
The Technomancer said:
Could you modify it just slightly to be


Only five more words
Click to expand...

I think the problem with that wording is that the sacrifice and leaves play parts are independent clauses so they'd technically need to appear on separate lines. Unless I have my templating rules wrong. I guess you could make the first line "Remove a counter, draw a card, then if ~ has no counters on it sacrifice it". But that could lead to it floating around for awhile with no counters, which would be weird.

And actually the more I think about it the more I like that you can get out of it somehow. It is just relatively hard for black to handle the situation by itself while its enemy colors can remove it easily by destroying the enchantment and even blue can just bounce the demon.

Theoretically if you have to kill the demon with something you're already down 2 cards (including the original enchantment), so you'd need to already be investing a good amount of mana into it and have it stick around for a good number of turns to get value.
 
K

Keru_Shiri

Member
That's a pretty sweet card, Ultron. What were you thinking about pricing it, mana wise? And could you make it more aggressively priced if the enchantment dinged you for 1 life every-time you drew?
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Keru_Shiri said:
That's a pretty sweet card, Ultron. What were you thinking about pricing it, mana wise? And could you make it more aggressively priced if the enchantment dinged you for 1 life every-time you drew?
Click to expand...

Worth pointing out that while this is an interesting discussion that doesn't necessarily matter for this round of YMTC. If its like past times then after the effect is voted on R&D will come up with 4 or 5 mana costs with minor effect tweaks they think would work and then we vote on that.
 
J

JulianImp

Member
The Technomancer said:
Worth pointing out that while this is an interesting discussion that doesn't necessarily matter for this round of YMTC. If its like past times then after the effect is voted on R&D will come up with 4 or 5 mana costs with minor effect tweaks they think would work and then we vote on that.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but it'd always help to put it in place and let R&D handle the tweaks, if that's what you want.

I really like the card's concept. Perhaps it could place the tokens under each opponent's control, to make it more interesting in multiplayer games as well?

The problem is the card is either too slow to enter the battlefield at a "safe" X value, or quickly runs out of steam and gets your opponent a free demon. It's worse than Phyrexian Arena in most circumstances, sadly. Perhaps we could fin a different way to represent the debt part?

I'd say the debt counters work better thematically if you slowly add them to the enchantment, and are then forced to pay some cost according to the number of counters on it to avoid sacrificing it, since removing counters and spawning a creature when they run out would work better with blue (and a djinn). Here's my suggestion:

Faustian Bargain (some cheap cost)
[cost]: Draw a card, then put a debt counter on Faustian Bargain. Play this ability only once per turn (and at sorcery speed, perhaps?).

At the beginning of your upkeep, pay [cost] for each debt counter on Faustian Bargain or sacrifice it and put a 5/5 indestructible black Demon token with flying onto the battlefield under each opponent's control.
Click to expand...

I'd say splitting the cost payment and the token making would result in even more lines, and therefore hurts the card's chances of making it to the polls. It's true that monoblack decks will probably have no way to remove it, so as long as the mana cost (and/or the debt and card draw costs) makes it hard to use outside of base-black decks, it could be fine.
 
Y

Yeef

Member
CommonWriter said:
Couldn't I potentially have 6 combat phases at that point?
Click to expand...
If you find enought ways to flicker, you can have infinite combat phases. I don't thank it's possible in standard at the moment, but there's plenty of janky ways to do it with support from older cards. Isochron scepter deadeye navigator + Intruder Alarm + some mana dorks is one such jank-tastic example.
 
M

mercviper

Member
CommonWriter said:
Couldn't I potentially have 6 combat phases at that point?
Click to expand...

Yeef said:
If you find enought ways to flicker, you can have infinite combat phases. I don't thank it's possible in standard at the moment, but there's plenty of janky ways to do it with support from older cards. Isochron scepter deadeye navigator + Intruder Alarm + some mana dorks is one such jank-tastic example.
Click to expand...

I think the problem is most flicker cards don't give haste.
 
Z

ZeroCoin

Member
mercviper said:
attack, untap, flicker, attack, untap, attack
Click to expand...

Aurelia just adds a second combat phase immediately following the first combat phase. You wouldn't be able to cast anything other than instants / abilities between the first and second combat phases though right? Unless you can flash that enchantment down I don't think it would work.
 
F

f0rk

Member
ZeroCoin said:
Aurelia just adds a second combat phase immediately following the first combat phase. You wouldn't be able to cast anything other than instants / abilities between the first and second combat phases though right? Unless you can flash that enchantment down I don't think it would work.
Click to expand...

It would already be on the board
 
U

ultron87

Member
JulianImp said:
*thoughs on card*
Click to expand...

You make some good points. I'll respond later tonight when not at work. One little change I thought of is maybe have you remove counters/draw on your end step just to get that first card sooner. And gives you one more attack step before there is a demon in your way. (But not really since it makes it last one turn less. But it feels better.)

A problem I've noted is a word length thing. The current template for an indestructible token is "and has 'this creature is indestructible'" based on Dark Depths.

mercviper said:
I think the problem is most flicker cards don't give haste.
Click to expand...

Aurelia handles that already though. It is already possible to do a bunch of combats with her and Cloudshift if you want to go deep.
 
M

mercviper

Member
ultron87 said:
Aurelia handles that already though. It is already possible to do a bunch of combats with her and Cloudshift if you want to go deep.
Click to expand...

oh true, I didn't even notice. I don't know a lot of the newer cards (post kamigawa really) so all I looked at was her untap ability.
 
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