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Magic: the GAFering |OT2|

Aurelia just adds a second combat phase immediately following the first combat phase. You wouldn't be able to cast anything other than instants / abilities between the first and second combat phases though right? Unless you can flash that enchantment down I don't think it would work.

If you have 4 copies of the enchantment on the board, all you need is 8 mana.

I thought this was mindblowing, then i realized that aurelia already has haste anyway. Bleh.

Knowing that she has haste, that means if you have any number of copies of cloudshift/restoration angel/ghostly flicker, they will work.
 
those jace prices are hilarious. It's probably the safest moderate-term bet in magic-not overpowered enough to ever get the boot out of Vintage or Legacy, an essential part of any blue EDH deck, and carries a high prestige value in general.

Also will almost certainly never see a reprint due to recent WOTC's mistake with him was and his permanent exile from Modern.

I expect him to be $180-200 sometime next year and then hover there for years.
 
I know he was at 50, then went back to $100. It seems in the past 3 weeks he's shot up to $150 a piece

jinkies

I'm happy. I offered to sell one to a guy for $85 three months ago, but he backed out. Then 2 weeks ago he asked again and I tentatively proposed $100. Then last Saturday I sold it to him for $100 cash + $30 in trades. Feels great because this guy got the better of me in two different trades earlier, because I was lax looking up prices.

Also traded one to another guy for $145 in trades. Trading down, but they were all cards I needed to get for EDH decks, mostly rares in the $5-$20 area + a beat-up Mana Crypt. Will probably try to sell one more Jace to a friend, and hold onto the other 2 for EDH/collection purposes. I got them for $50 each last summer when it seems they were at their nadir.

It's nice to get some value out of the Legacy staples I have left after I got out of the format. The ones I don't want to keep for EDH, anyway.
 
those jace prices are hilarious. It's probably the safest moderate-term bet in magic-not overpowered enough to ever get the boot out of Vintage or Legacy, an essential part of any blue EDH deck, and carries a high prestige value in general.

I don't think he's that great in EDH (though obviously good). People tend not to attack as aggressively outside of very competitive EDH games, because of the political impact and because they're often just focused on getting their battlecruiser operational. People will very often skip past their attack step despite having a 3/3 or something to hit with, because hey, it's just 3 damage, and why piss Timmy off by directing this at him, and I won't have a blocker.

Put a PW down though? That thing is a magnet for people's attacks, especially someone like Jace. He is very good in certain decks though, like I have him in my control/heavy pillowfort EDH deck with Hanna as the general. He's good there, because I strongly discourage attacking.

Baby Jace is actually sometimes better, because his +2 makes people happy and not inclined to beat him to death.

The best PW in EDH is probably Tezzeret IMO. Followed by Karn L.
 
Any advice on this Golgari agro deck? In particular considering:
1) Shocklands will be added ASAP.
2) Cards like Deathrite Shaman or Abrupt Decay are out of my budget.
3) The sideboard is thrown together until I can determine the general meta where I play.

4x Arbor Elf
2x Slitherhead
4x Strangleroot Geist
4x Lotleth Troll
3x Dreg Mangler
3x Predator Ooze
2x Deadbridge Goliath
3x Wolfir Silverheart
2x Thragtusk
27 Creatures

4x Tragic Slip
3x Ultimate Price
2x Golgari Charm
9 Other Spells

4x Golgari Guildgate
1x Woodland Cemetary
12x Forest
7x Swamp
24 Lands

2x Death Wind
1x Ultimate Price
2x Ghost Quarter
2x Victim of Night
2x Bramblecrush
2x Korozda Guildmage
2x Duress
1x Wolfir Silverheart
Sideboard
 

Sinatar

Official GAF Bottom Feeder
Any advice on this Golgari agro deck?
Considering:
1) Shocklands will be added ASAP.
2) Cards like Deathrite Shaman or Abrupt Decay are out of my budget
3) The sideboard is thrown together until I can determine the general meta where I play

4x Arbor Elf
2x Slitherhead
4x Strangleroot Geist
4x Lotleth Troll
3x Dreg Mangler
3x Predator Ooze
2x Deadbridge Goliath
3x Wolfir Silverheart
2x Thragtusk
27 Creatures

4x Tragic Slip
3x Ultimate Price
2x Golgari Charm
9 Other Spells

4x Golgari Guildgate
1x Woodland Cemetary
12x Forest
7x Swamp

2x Death Wind
1x Ultimate Price
2x Ghost Quarter
2x Victim of Night
2x Bramblecrush
2x Korozda Guildmage
2x Duress
1x Wolfir Silverheart
Sideboard

Looks a lot like Kiblers old B/G list. I'd ditch the slitherheads for uvenwald trackers. Tracker and Predator Ooze go together like peanut butter & chocolate.
 
Looks a lot like Kiblers old B/G list. I'd ditch the slitherheads for uvenwald trackers. Tracker and Predator Ooze go together like peanut butter & chocolate.

Good suggestion, thanks!

Question on Arbor Elf/mana pools whilst I'm here. When I use Llanowar Elf (let's say I have a single forest on the table also), I can tap the forest and him (after summoning sickness) to end up with two green mana in my pool. With Arbor Elf do I end up with two green mana after tapping the forest then, untapping with AE, then retapping the land; or is it two seperate instances of one green mana?
 
Good suggestion, thanks!

Question on Arbor Elf/mana pools whilst I'm here. When I use Llanowar Elf (let's say I have a single forest on the table also), I can tap the forest and him (after summoning sickness) to end up with two green mana in my pool. With Arbor Elf do I end up with two green mana after tapping the forest then, untapping with AE, then retapping the land; or is it two seperate instances of one green mana?

Mana stays in your mana pool unless you spend it or you move to another phase in a turn.

So to answer your question: You tap the forest to add G to mana pool, you tap Arbor Elf to untap the forest, then you tap the forest to add G to your mana pool. You'll end up in the exact situation as with the Llanowar Elves with GG in your mana pool.
 

Sinatar

Official GAF Bottom Feeder
Good suggestion, thanks!

Question on Arbor Elf/mana pools whilst I'm here. When I use Llanowar Elf (let's say I have a single forest on the table also), I can tap the forest and him (after summoning sickness) to end up with two green mana in my pool. With Arbor Elf do I end up with two green mana after tapping the forest then, untapping with AE, then retapping the land; or is it two seperate instances of one green mana?

Yea the only real functional difference between arbor and llanowar elves is that arbor elves let you untap dual lands (aka shock lands) so you could get other colours then just green.
 
My submission for YMTC:

Tap, Pay 1 Life: Add a counter to [This Damn Card].
Sacrifice a creature or artifact you control: [This Damn Card] deals damage equal to the number of charge counters on it to target creature or player.

I had thought about paying 2 life instead of 1. I figure if someone liked it, the numbers were good for fudging.
 

kirblar

Member
Mana stays in your mana pool unless you spend it or you move to another phase in a turn.

So to answer your question: You tap the forest to add G to mana pool, you tap Arbor Elf to untap the forest, then you tap the forest to add G to your mana pool. You'll end up in the exact situation as with the Llanowar Elves with GG in your mana pool.
It's now Steps, not phases. So you can't float Upkeep->Draw now.
 
those jace prices are hilarious. It's probably the safest moderate-term bet in magic-not overpowered enough to ever get the boot out of Vintage or Legacy, an essential part of any blue EDH deck, and carries a high prestige value in general.

Also will almost certainly never see a reprint due to recent WOTC's mistake with him was and his permanent exile from Modern.

I expect him to be $180-200 sometime next year and then hover there for years.

I don't understand why he costs so much. When he was ruling Standard sure but now? It's only legal in two competitive formats and is pretty much a dead drop. Turn 4 JMS? I won two turns ago. Someone please explain this craziness.
 

Sinatar

Official GAF Bottom Feeder
I don't understand why he costs so much. When he was ruling Standard sure but now? It's only legal in two competitive formats and is pretty much a dead drop. Turn 4 JMS? I won two turns ago. Someone please explain this craziness.

He's a collectors item. Jace is the most popular of WOTC's planeswalkers. He's hard to find, he was notorious for being overpowered and all those things combined makes for a rare card.
 
This is the second time he's spiked right before the B&R announcements. People keep thinking that he's going to be unbanned in Modern for some silly reason.

Obviously paper and MTGO are different markets, but look at what happened to these cards on MTGO around the B&R announcements:

Bitterblossom: http://www.mtggoldfish.com/card/Bitterblossom+[MOR]
Jace: http://www.mtggoldfish.com/card/Jace,+the+Mind+Sculptor+[WWK]
Ancestral Vision: http://www.mtggoldfish.com/card/Ancestral+Vision+[TSP]
Stoneforge Mystic: http://www.mtggoldfish.com/card/Stoneforge+Mystic+[WWK]
 
I don't understand why he costs so much. When he was ruling Standard sure but now? It's only legal in two competitive formats and is pretty much a dead drop. Turn 4 JMS? I won two turns ago. Someone please explain this craziness.

This isn't the way legacy and vintage work. The game rarely ends on turn 2 unless the matchup is really, really bad, and that's rare. Fair decks vs. fair deck games the majority of matches) often go more turns than Standard matches.

I grind people out of Vintage games with blue decks all the time even without vault/key or Tinker.

Unbanning Jace or Stoneforge in Modern is a really, really bad idea. Bitterblossom is safe and would be a good thing for the format-nothing says "unfair deck predator" like disruptive tribal aggro that never taps out.

Visions is something you evaluate a year or two out, but is still too iffy as is.
 

Crocodile

Member
My submission for YMTC:



I had thought about paying 2 life instead of 1. I figure if someone liked it, the numbers were good for fudging.

A) Enchantments don't tap (and don't you dare cite Future Sight cause they pretty much said they'd laugh in your face if you did)

B) Flavorwise this feels more like a Red enchantment or an Artifact than a Black enchantment.
 
A) Enchantments don't tap (and don't you dare cite Future Sight cause they pretty much said they'd laugh in your face if you did)

B) Flavorwise this feels more like a Red enchantment or an Artifact than a Black enchantment.

Interesting. The fling-ish, I admit, feels red. I'd thought the pay life plus sac combined would make it feel black. And I didn't know about no tapping enchantments. I suppose I can understand some of the arguments I've now read. Especially the "that's just the way it is". -_-

That's what I get for throwing in my hat without really having been in deep in Magic for that long, eh?
 

Crocodile

Member
Interesting. The fling-ish, I admit, feels red. I'd thought the pay life plus sac combined would make it feel black. And I didn't know about no tapping enchantments. I suppose I can understand some of the arguments I've now read. Especially the "that's just the way it is". -_-

That's what I get for throwing in my hat without really having been in deep in Magic for that long, eh?

Don't feel bad, making Magic cards is hard. You need to have a pretty good understanding of the game's past and present to really nail down quality design.

My first point is something you pick on if you've been playing for a bit. I stress/bolded my point because in the submission article they explicitly tell you not to submit enchantments that tap. So I'm worried the card may be thrown out as soon as someone in WOTC sees you didn't read the instructions.

The second point comes from the fact that, as you correctly identified, the "Fling" ability is primarily in Red. Especially the artifact part; both Mirrodin blocks have set a precedent for Red to sacrifice artifacts to deal damage but not Black. Black can sac things to deal damage but its much less frequent. Furthermore, almost all Black direct damage, of which there is much less than that of Red, it's flavored as draining (X damage, gain X life).
 

kirblar

Member
This is the second time he's spiked right before the B&R announcements. People keep thinking that he's going to be unbanned in Modern for some silly reason.

Obviously paper and MTGO are different markets, but look at what happened to these cards on MTGO around the B&R announcements:

Bitterblossom: http://www.mtggoldfish.com/card/Bitterblossom+[MOR]
Jace: http://www.mtggoldfish.com/card/Jace,+the+Mind+Sculptor+[WWK]
Ancestral Vision: http://www.mtggoldfish.com/card/Ancestral+Vision+[TSP]
Stoneforge Mystic: http://www.mtggoldfish.com/card/Stoneforge+Mystic+[WWK]
I expect Bitterblossom to get a test run at some point. The rest? Never.
 

kirblar

Member
Looks like the bitcoin graphs.
Bitcoin has no intrinsic value and no central banking authority.

Jace has both. :)
Don't feel bad, making Magic cards is hard. You need to have a pretty good understanding of the game's past and present to really nail down quality design.

My first point is something you pick on if you've been playing for a bit. I stress/bolded my point because in the submission article they explicitly tell you not to submit enchantments that tap. So I'm worried the card may be thrown out as soon as someone in WOTC sees you didn't read the instructions.

The second point comes from the fact that, as you correctly identified, the "Fling" ability is primarily in Red. Especially the artifact part; both Mirrodin blocks have set a precedent for Red to sacrifice artifacts to deal damage but not Black. Black can sac things to deal damage but its much less frequent. Furthermore, almost all Black direct damage, of which there is much less than that of Red, it's flavored as draining (X damage, gain X life).
To add onto that- keep it clean. The concept should be simple, even if the wording's a little awkward.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
And yet Jace is just as volatile. BITCOIN REDEEMED?
 
How about a card that starts with counters and when its controller removes the counters, they get some kind of benefit (gain a card, make target opponent drop a card at random), but the opponent can also remove counters for some kind of cost (say 2 life). Then when the counters are gone, the enchantment is exiled and the opponent gets some kind of benefit (a creature or something)?

I haven't been totally following the conversation, but that's just a tweak on one of the ideas I read from you guys earlier
 

y2dvd

Member
I didn't start mtg when Zendikar was still in rotation, so I never looked at Jace until now and wow, I can see why he is so broke. He can protect himself or gain hella card advantage. Must've been
un
fun times!
 

bigkrev

Member
I didn't start mtg when Zendikar was still in rotation, so I never looked at Jace until now and wow, I can see why he is so broke. He can protect himself or gain hella card advantage. Must've been
un
fun times!

The thing was, when he was printed, stuff like Bloodbraid elf and Oblivion Ring existed to help keep him in check. He got totally out of control once Alara rotated out and there were no cards to fight against him. I think Maro said in a column that they realized there needs to be some way to fight Planeswalkers, and they would always have something in standard (like Oblivion Ring) in case they were too good.
 
lhtm4acecs_EN.jpg
p6ijmzcjky_EN.jpg
 

Sinatar

Official GAF Bottom Feeder
p6ijmzcjky_EN.jpg


Hey look another broken 2HG card...

Image.ashx



This looks fun, but 6 mana is too bloody much. You'd think at mythic they could have costed it a bit more aggressively.

lhtm4acecs_EN.jpg
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
That vampire should really be "or" and not "and".

Or "if you have 20 more health than any opponent".

On the other hand it's a solid beater that's immune to a lot of removal so it's not bad even disregarding the second ability.
 

Sinatar

Official GAF Bottom Feeder
That vampire should really be "or" and not "and".

Or "if you have 20 more health than any opponent".

On the other hand it's a solid beater that's immune to a lot of removal so it's not bad even disregarding the second ability.

Oh I misread it, yea that's a lot worse then I initially thought. So I guess that begs the question... why mythic?
 

bigkrev

Member

My 2 favorite cards spoiled so far.

The enchantment is basically a 1 sided Howling Mine, that has the upside of letting you cast any creatures you "draw" from it for free. Its obviously insane in EDH (and going right into my Mimeoplasam deck), and has a fringe chance of constructed playability, because of how powerful its effect is.

The vampire is a fixed for EDH Serra Ascendant, but a huge beatdown in Standard. He dodges just about every piece of spot removal in the format (with exception to Mizzium Mortars), is aggressively costed, and a great finisher.
 

Crocodile

Member
Warped Physique is a fine Magic card but I know the first time I topdeck that when I need like any removal spell to kill a creature that is killing me I'm going to want to throw-up all over the table. Not to say I haven't topdeck the wrong removal spell from time to time already but this is prone to more variance :p
 

Sinatar

Official GAF Bottom Feeder
Warped Physique is a fine Magic card but I know the first time I topdeck that when I need like any removal spell to kill a creature that is killing me I'm going to want to throw-up all over the table. Not to say I haven't topdeck the wrong removal spell from time to time already but this is prone to more variance :p

Exactly why it's just not that great. The further into a match you get the worse it becomes until eventually it's just a dead card. Since it's Dimir it should play off your opponents graveyard, not your hand, doesn't make sense.
 

Crocodile

Member
Exactly why it's just not that great. The further into a match you get the worse it becomes until eventually it's just a dead card. Since it's Dimir it should play off your opponents graveyard, not your hand, doesn't make sense.

Oh I agree with you 100%. I'm just saying that it's still removal so it's still playable in limited. Beggars can't be choosers, etc.
 
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