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Magic: the GAFering |OT2|
- Thread starter The Technomancer
- Start date
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Because that obviously would've been too powerful as an instant.
divisionbyzorro
Member
Hey Mark, looks like you slept in today. Did you design that Selesnya card that you were assigned?
Uhh...yeah...sure! I have it right here! It's a...sorcery...and it says...populate...
...and??
...uh...
...
...
It's perfect!
Uhh...yeah...sure! I have it right here! It's a...sorcery...and it says...populate...
...and??
...uh...
...
...
It's perfect!
FieryBalrog
Member
It's especially disconcerting because they're really played up how much flavor and design are supposed to integrate in NWO ("New World Order" of design, their catchy/bullshit term for it).
Everything is supposed to be driven by top-down over-arching vision, with tight, tight, tight integration between mechanics and flavor, and selling a world-building exercise. It's hard to see how that worked so well in Innistrad, and worked so well in parts of RtR, and so poorly in others. And especially given that they should have learned some lessons from Ravnica 1.0, which also had a huge variance of success in designing guild leaders and champs. (Compare Rakdos the Defiler to Niv-Mizzet, Firemind. Wtf? Or Chorus of the Conclave, which is a very awkward and muddled attempt to represent Selesnyan hivemind)
Some of the legends here are solid representations of their guilds that are also cool and fun to play - see new Rakdos, Lazav, Aurelia, Trostani, Jarad. Some are serviceable but really uncreative, like the new de-combo-fied Niv Mizzet, who would be a great design if the old Niv didn't exist. And some are complete head scratchers that don't make much of any sense. Why does Isperia draw you cards when you're attacked? What's that got to do with the 'passing judgment' aspect of Azorius she's supposed to be playing on? You would expect her to Condemn attackers somehow, or Arrest them, or punish them somehow, not "man, I learned so much from that attack!"
Emmara falls into the category of complete design failure for me. Under NWO, why is a small-ish Elf Healer a 5/7 monstrosity without any flavorful justification whatsoever? If she's 5/7 due to riding an Elemental, why isn't that reflected in the card, in some aesthetically pleasing way? (would prefer if it spawned a separate Elemental token on ETB like Ambassador Oak, as not only is that quite flavorful, it integrates beautifully with guild mechanics).
Why is her ability so bland and narrow and... well, pretty useless? Healing is usually represented on Magic cards with activated damage prevention, not a blanket static ability. Why not tap to regenerate all tokens you control? Now it can help vs board sweepers, which frankly, should be the goddamned job of your slow-ass 7 mana brick of a champion built around "heal all the tokens".
A quick rush job that's already ten times better than this lazy, lazy thing we got.
If only each guild leader could be for their guild what Doran is for Treefolk or Captain Sisay is for the Weatherlight crew.
divisionbyzorro
Member
It's less powerful than "creature tokens you control are indestructible."
Plus she's only one less mana than Avacyn which makes all *permanents* you control indestructible.
divisionbyzorro
Member
Any strategies to watch out for?
I did some looking into it last night, and did a few sample drafts on some online simulators. Sorting out what color you're actually drafting seems difficult, there appear to be some cute combos with the untapping creatures, and it seems that 4 toughness is the magic number again.
I'll be trying it a couple times this weekend. It's only 4-3-2-2, which is bad EV, but I like the idea of drafting an older set for the first time.
acheron_xl
Member
Should've been a single G/W hybrid mana.
Feels like "Draw a Card" is missing.
Seems like there're some new cards:
Skylasher 2cmc (Rare) Green Spider 2/2 Flash, can't be countered, reach, protection from blue
Scion of Vitu-Ghazi (Rare) 5cmc 4/4 White elemental If you cast ~ from your hand, put a 1/1 white Bird token with flying onto the battlefield, then populate.
Reap Intellect (Mythic) Sorcery x2ub Target opponent reveals hand, you choose X non-land cards from among them. Search that player's library, hand and graveyard for cards with the same name of those cards and exile them. Then that player shuffles library.
Reap Intellect sounds a bit weak, since it can only hit cards in hand and it'd cost 5 to get the first card. It might work better with higher X values, but it feels too expensive, sort of like the black X tutor from M13.
The blue-hating Spider sounds okay, even if it's nothing to write home about. I'd probably fit some of them in my Simic deck sideboard against control decks. It still gets wrathed away, but it dodges Azorius and Izzet Charms, can slip by Snapcaster Mage or pop up out of nowhere to ambush him and is also protected from Tamiyo and Ral's abilities. Decks with access to black and/or red will probably wreck this, though.
Scion looks decent. Even with no other creatures, it drops 6 power for five mana. I guess you'd probably run Geist-Honored Monk over this unless you were populating larger tokens, though, but it will rotate somewhat soon. The lack of evasion hurts it a bit for constructed, and it isn't that much of a limited bomb by itself.
Skylasher 2cmc (Rare) Green Spider 2/2 Flash, can't be countered, reach, protection from blue
Scion of Vitu-Ghazi (Rare) 5cmc 4/4 White elemental If you cast ~ from your hand, put a 1/1 white Bird token with flying onto the battlefield, then populate.
Reap Intellect (Mythic) Sorcery x2ub Target opponent reveals hand, you choose X non-land cards from among them. Search that player's library, hand and graveyard for cards with the same name of those cards and exile them. Then that player shuffles library.
Reap Intellect sounds a bit weak, since it can only hit cards in hand and it'd cost 5 to get the first card. It might work better with higher X values, but it feels too expensive, sort of like the black X tutor from M13.
The blue-hating Spider sounds okay, even if it's nothing to write home about. I'd probably fit some of them in my Simic deck sideboard against control decks. It still gets wrathed away, but it dodges Azorius and Izzet Charms, can slip by Snapcaster Mage or pop up out of nowhere to ambush him and is also protected from Tamiyo and Ral's abilities. Decks with access to black and/or red will probably wreck this, though.
Scion looks decent. Even with no other creatures, it drops 6 power for five mana. I guess you'd probably run Geist-Honored Monk over this unless you were populating larger tokens, though, but it will rotate somewhat soon. The lack of evasion hurts it a bit for constructed, and it isn't that much of a limited bomb by itself.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I like it
FieryBalrog
Member
my gawd. this job really isn't that hard, how do you fuck it up.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
"We make bad cards to swindle newbs out of their mon...I mean, teach novice players about the value of the choosing good cards. Without rain, you wouldn't enjoy a nice summer day!
"Oh come on! So close.
darkside31337
Tomodachi wa Mahou
The Helix is still a strong card even at 4 mana.
That legend. Man what the fuck? Just what the fuck.
That legend. Man what the fuck? Just what the fuck.
Siiiigh. It's official.
Why do people despise this card?
FieryBalrog
Member
You excited about this guy?
Editt: I should say it's not really the power level alone (though she is completely useless), it's the sheer badness of the design, on multiple levels. Wizards should not have bad design talent working on their flagship product.
me said:
Also the reason people care more than usual is because of EDH. There are only a handful of GW EDH generals that are at all playable- of the 17 that exist, you have to immediately delete everything from Legends block, which is like half of them, then delete a few more.
BW is in much worse shape still, being enemy colors, which is why people were annoyed by Teysa, too.
...also, people care way too much about this hobby, but that should be a given, when you look at how much money and time investment goes into it over years and years.
No, but its clear she was printed for some W/G EDH general. It's not offensive in any way if you want a token themed deck.
Because it's overly expensive and does nothing special unless you've got tons of tokens. Being an Elf could be relevant in some decks, but it's mostly just a large vanilla creature.
She'll be fine in limited, but not very good in constructed.
Compare to Avacyn, who costs one more, is bigger with two combat abilities and makes all your dudes indestructible.
Emmera is a joke of a Magic Card. I have no idea how WOTC botched so many of the Guild Champions (and I'm talking from a Commander perspective not necessarily a T2 perspective). Most of the mythic leaders were great to decent whereas most of the Champions are straight up awful.
The Helix is still a good card even if its too expensive to go in Cube. The costing on multicolor cards has been so weird this block. Like costs seem to be additive overall in this block (Like One Thousand Lashes and Purge the Profane costing +1 mana than their mono-color counterparts) rather than getting a total CMC discount for being multicolor (Like Blightning and Lightning Helix which cost the same total CMC as their mono-color counterparts).
The Helix is still a good card even if its too expensive to go in Cube. The costing on multicolor cards has been so weird this block. Like costs seem to be additive overall in this block (Like One Thousand Lashes and Purge the Profane costing +1 mana than their mono-color counterparts) rather than getting a total CMC discount for being multicolor (Like Blightning and Lightning Helix which cost the same total CMC as their mono-color counterparts).
darkside31337
Tomodachi wa Mahou
I'd rather play an Axebane Stag.
Seriously Emmara is a failure on every level. One of the worst Magic cards I have ever seen. It's like a throwback to the days of Legends.
Honestly the entire set is.
Seriously Emmara is a failure on every level. One of the worst Magic cards I have ever seen. It's like a throwback to the days of Legends.
Honestly the entire set is.
In what universe do you play her over Rhys the Redeemed or Trostani? That's the biggest offense. She offers nothing particular unique or powerful for token decks that other generals don't already do.
That's because One Thousand Lashes is an upgrade from Pillory of the Sleepless, and got the bump up in cost appropriately. The bleed effect is very good.
Purge isn't very defensible though.
I like it
A recyclable Bloodrush card? Sounds good to me.
So heres my Boros Humans deck looking that Im taking to FNM. Lemme know what improvements I can make. Thinking of replacing that 1 Thalia and Nearheath Pilgrim with Ash Zealot.
4x Champion of the Parish
4x Boros Elite
1x Thalia
4x Kruin Striker
4x Wojek Halberdiers
1x Nearheath Pilgrim
4x Silverblade Paladin
2x Frontline Medic
2x Odric, Master Tactician
3x Thatcher Revolt
4x Gather the Townsfolk
4x Boros Charm
1x Aurelias Fury
4x Sacred Foundry
4x Clifftop Retreat
2x Cavern of Souls
1x Slayers Stronghold
7x Plains
4x Mountain
Sideboard
2x Pillar of Flame
2x Searing Spear
1x Bonds of Faith
1x War Priest
2x Mizzium Mortars
2x Thalia
1x O-Ring
2x Rest in Peace
2x Volcanic Strength
FieryBalrog
Member
There are two existing GW token generals already who are 100x superior - and not remotely overpowered, by the way, just somewhat reasonable. Emmara is so out of it from just a power level perspective, leave aside the design failures- Vigor exists, Avacyn exists, and it's not just that she's weaker than them, it's that she's enormously weaker than two completely fair cards. (seriously, just compare her to either of those two).
I mean EDH is all I play now for a long while, and as a general this is pretty damn close to the level of Riven Turnbull, or any other Legends-era unplayable.
screw dudes, she makes all your shit indestructible period, and yet she's completely fair even in casual EDH, what with costing 8 mana and all, and, as happens in the format, being easily killed with clones/exiles, easily stolen by blue decks (I did this last Saturday...), etc.Because it's overly expensive and does nothing special unless you've got tons of tokens. Being an Elf could be relevant in some decks, but it's mostly just a large vanilla creature.
She'll be fine in limited, but not very good in constructed.
Compare to Avacyn, who costs one more, is bigger with two combat abilities and makes all your dudes indestructible.
emmara prevents damage to tokens for 7 mana.
One of my friends runs Rune-Tail as his general, who on turn 3 immediately turns into an enchantment that prevents all damage to all your creatures, and this is his janky casual deck using a niche legend from Kamigawa.
I'm aware of the precedent of Pillory of the Sleepless, I just feel in past multicolor blocks, sans the influence of that precedent, the card would have cost 1WB (a better Arrest but you get a discount since its multicolor & harder to cast). Of course it would have to be tested and pointed for limited and that reduction in CMC may have negative implications of the limited environment. I can't say without doing the testing myself and I have no idea if WOTC came to that conclusion or not. My main point is that A LOT of the multiclor cards in this block feel overcosted by one. Not all of them of course (Supreme Verdict and Detention Sphere don't have a CMC penalty) but I feel this way for a lot of the commons and uncommons. Maybe I'm just over-thinking things though
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
I mean, Ruric Thar, who costs less, has two combat abilities and hits an opponent for a third of his/her life for each noncreature spell they cast is in the same damn cycle. Prevent damage to tokens? Lol. Lingering souls is almost gone too. Making it super stupid useless.
FieryBalrog
Member
Right, but Pillory ain't exactly a powerhouse card itself.
Purge really should have been 3 mana just from an aesthetic standpoint as a mirror of Blightning. The effect is worse than Blightning and BBE doesn't exist. Part of the enduring appeal of gold, as Maro goes over in his podcast, is that players get excited by what appear to be discounted prices, when in reality the prices are fine because the color requirements impose stricter limitations. That's why Blightning gets to cost 3, Watchwolf got to cost 2, and so on. When you start printing these cards and costing them about the same as a monocolored card, it feels wrong and unappealing, and that makes sense, because the true cost is actually higher. The costs should also feel "clean", that is: nothing is left to subtract, this is the cleanest version of the card.
RTR had this, though a lot of it was bumped up to rare/mythic for no great reason. Detention Sphere, Dreadbore, Sphinx's Revelation, Epic Experiment, etc. are all good clean multicolor cards with minimalist costs, and they feel enduring, like Watchwolf from Rav 1.0 does, even though Watchwolf isn't a power card at all.
In general it seems they put 300% more effort into RTR than the rest of this dang block. I don't think I can bother with a box of DGM, because the cards I want are exactly like those from Gatecrash, $1-2 rares that can be had as throwaways. 1x Plasm Capture, 1x Notion Thief, and 1x foil Melek; that's literally it.
Yep, exactly!
I had this exact thought today, too. And I feel like the limited environment should be at the service of good design and printing memorable cards, not the other way around. Even if we were to assume that the cards were mildly imbalanced for Limited at the proper cost, people play limited for 3 months, and this is not going to be more than a marginal factor at it's highest. Given that these same fellows printed Pack Rat at rare in RtR... If Limited is now such a fragile thing that we can't have good uncommons like we used to, then that's their problem to solve, and I feel like pushing all that RtR removal to rare might just have more to do with $$$ than anything else.
DGM is a very good set. It's just that the rough edges (Release, Emmara) really show up due to the small size/narrow focus of the set.
Look at how good Stab Wound was. I'm ok with it not being constructed-casting cost level, as those type of effects are almost always for limited.
FieryBalrog
Member
See my edit above. A larger volume of the set is starting to feel stuffed with Limited jank, and I think that's not what you want from your most popular block environment using your most popular card theme. Myself, and I would believe people generally, aren't as excited to draft when the vast majority of their cards are completely unexciting outside the draft, even for casual use. It makes the set feel.... well, disposable.
Rav 1.0 had tons of memorable uncommons that hardly broke the power curve. Lightning Helix, Watchwolf, Consult the Necrosages, Mortify, Savage Twister, Wrecking Ball, etc.
Part of the change has to do with the NWO philosophy. They've actively simplified commons/uncommons (and made them much less likely to generate card advantage naturally.) This likely led to some of what we've seen, with the powerhouse cards at Rare this time. But that's ok, because RTR/DGM are chock full of them.
divisionbyzorro
Member
Yeah, this is exactly the type of card they have to print into Standard while Snapcaster Mage is a thing.
Hopefully once he's gone they can stop being scared of the instants they print.
I really like this design. I would have preferred to see a smaller P/T increase for a reduced recursion cost, but I like the card.
divisionbyzorro
Member
Rakdos Charm: the best sideboard card ever printed.
hyperbole - but I really do love that card
People who think the card is bad haven't played enough Modern.
FieryBalrog
Member
I don't see how they're incredibly powerful. The flagship card, Boros Charm, did not turn out to be a Standard powerhouse. Let alone any other format. More of a niche Standard card.
Boros - decent niche card, weak design because the other two modes 99% of the time make the Double strike mode obsolete.
Simic- great clean design, not a particularly powerful card, but so what? None of the charms are going to be huge staples. Maybe Izzet Charm, in a few years.
Orzhov Charm's design is also weird, it has two almost entirely irrelevant modes and an arbitrary clause about Auras on its bounce mode. Why is that the white mode, anyway?
divisionbyzorro
Member
They're not for all formats. Gruul Charm is good in Limited. The Izzet, Boros, and Rakdos charms will see play in Modern for the foreseeable future. Azorius Charm is one of the most important cards in Standard. I don't play much block, but I believe Orzhov Charm is one of the only (perhaps the only?) unconditional removal spell. So on and so forth.
Some more split cards were spoiled:
Down//Dirty 3B//2G
Sorcery//Sorcery
Target player discards two cards.//Return target card from your graveyard to your hand.
Fuse
Ready//Willing 1GW//1BW
Instant//Instant
Creatures you control are indestructible this turn.//Creatures you control gain deathtouch and lifelink until end of turn.
Fuse
Protect//Serve 2W//2U
Instant//Instant
Target creature gets +2/+4 until end of turn.//Target creature gets -4/-0 until end of turn.
Fuse
Profit//Loss 2W//2B
Instant//Instant
Creatures you control get +1/+1 until end of turn.//Creatures your opponents control get -1/-1 until end of turn.
Fuse
Down//Dirty 3B//2G
Sorcery//Sorcery
Target player discards two cards.//Return target card from your graveyard to your hand.
Fuse
Ready//Willing 1GW//1BW
Instant//Instant
Creatures you control are indestructible this turn.//Creatures you control gain deathtouch and lifelink until end of turn.
Fuse
Protect//Serve 2W//2U
Instant//Instant
Target creature gets +2/+4 until end of turn.//Target creature gets -4/-0 until end of turn.
Fuse
Profit//Loss 2W//2B
Instant//Instant
Creatures you control get +1/+1 until end of turn.//Creatures your opponents control get -1/-1 until end of turn.
Fuse
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