FieryBalrog
Member
Saw this on MTGS, lol
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Magic: the GAFering |OT2|
- Thread starter The Technomancer
- Start date
I guess so. I may have worded my thoughts poorly, but I didn't mean exactly that I wanted cipher cards to be a bomb mechanic but moreso that I would have liked dimir as a guild to be a bit less bad? Maybe DGM will have some knockout cards (Notion Thief looks neat but it's at 4 at I think that's a tad bit too much-- like a lot of dimir cards).
FieryBalrog
Member
Notion Thief is an amazing card. It's also super good in EDH, and probably quite decent in Standard.
platypotamus
Member
Any strategies to watch out for?
Well, I've only drafted it the once, but since there was a pretty big prize on the line (plus work bragging rights), I did do a lot of homework before the draft (ok not really, but I did at least look through the card list as I had never played shadowmoor before). What I noticed in the draft may not be even remotely true but...
Aggro decks seemed much weaker than they seem to be in more contemporary formats.
Enchantments seemed to be a much bigger deal than they are currently. I ran into a few global enchantments that were pretty brutal, and some auras-to-play-on-opponents' creatures too. So I'd value enchantment hate a little higher than you might normally. Everlasting Torment in particular was painful for my deck to deal with, since I was a mainly white deck that did a lot of life gain/stalling while either whittling with my evasive creatures or waiting for my bombs.
I also think I had more success than some because I went 3 color and most tried really hard to stay 2 color. My first couple picks were G/W cards (Rhys the Redeemed being one of them, can't remember what else I snagged super early), but I saw a lot of really good U/W cards as well that I took. Since so many of the multicolors (all of them?) in Shadowmoor are slash cost rather than requiring both, you can get away with a lot more, but only if you're smart about it and focus on a wedge with your main color in the middle. I wish I hadn't broken my deck apart already, so I could conveniently double check this, but I THINK I only ended up with 2-3 cards that I needed non-white mana to cast, despite the fact that my deck was made up of tons of multicolor cards.
My exact thinking last time I was puzzling over which guild I'd pick.
Don't get me started... I absolutely love the Izzet guild's philosophy, but they ended up being one of the worst guilds ever in both limited and constructed (I'm talking about building a base-Izzet deck, not splashing for some Izzet Charms or Staticasters). They're even more spell-based than Dimir, so they were hurt the most by Wizards push for stronger creatures and weaker spells.
Overload is a lot less interesting than Cypher (even though the latter was sadly overcosted in all cards except for Whispering Madness and Hands of Binding, IMO), since it actually restricts cards in order to be playable (you can't bouce your own stuff with Cyclonic Vortex, for example). Couldn't they just have made overloaded spells actually target as many things as you wanted, rather than replacing "target" for "all"? That would've made them more versatile, and overload costs are already high enough as is so that it'd be fine to let you target anything selectively (except for Mizzium Skin, I guess).
As far as creatures go, the Izzet guild got (mostly) either overcosted or simply underwhelming cards. Nivmagus Elemental would've been a lot better with replicate rather than overload, and it remains unplayed even with flashback in the format, and Staticaster seems like a very metagame-specific card, and Mizzium Mortars is a playable spell alongside the guild's Charm. Even back in Guildpact they had mostly underwhelming cards except for very few exceptions, such as Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind and Electrolyze, and more casual-oriented stuff such as Wee Dragonauts and Gelectrode.
acheron_xl
Member
Cypher reminds me a lot of Splice. Both totally awesome, but busted as hell if development isn't careful. The cards they used both of those mechanics on really feels like they were absolutely frightened of the mechanics.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Flavor tyme.
Guild allies?
Orzhov - Dimir = Both like their secrets!
Izzet - Simic = Both like to experiment!
Azorious - Boros = Both like order!
Golgari - Rakdos = Both like death!
Gruul - Selesnya = Both like nature!
Guild allies?
Orzhov - Dimir = Both like their secrets!
Izzet - Simic = Both like to experiment!
Azorious - Boros = Both like order!
Golgari - Rakdos = Both like death!
Gruul - Selesnya = Both like nature!
divisionbyzorro
Member
Okay, SSE is a weird limited format.
All of the Shadowmoor boosters are allied colors. The Eventide booster is enemy colored. Each booster is filled with cards that care if you do things in two different colors at the same time.
Creatures untap themselves, and there are enchantments that give creatures tap abilities (I just won a match by putting Presence of Gond on a Pili-Pala).
Going first has been huge so far. I've won every game that I've gone first, and lost every game that I haven't. Every play you make seems to be a huge tempo swing.
Flying seems really important (more so than usual). And you randomly just won't be able to block a number of your opponent's creatures. Oh you have a R/G hybrid creature? Well, my U/B hybrid creature can't be blocked by green creatures, so suck it.
There's just waaaay too much going on here. How was this format viewed by veterans? Was it remembered as good/bad/indifferent?
All of the Shadowmoor boosters are allied colors. The Eventide booster is enemy colored. Each booster is filled with cards that care if you do things in two different colors at the same time.
Creatures untap themselves, and there are enchantments that give creatures tap abilities (I just won a match by putting Presence of Gond on a Pili-Pala).
Going first has been huge so far. I've won every game that I've gone first, and lost every game that I haven't. Every play you make seems to be a huge tempo swing.
Flying seems really important (more so than usual). And you randomly just won't be able to block a number of your opponent's creatures. Oh you have a R/G hybrid creature? Well, my U/B hybrid creature can't be blocked by green creatures, so suck it.
There's just waaaay too much going on here. How was this format viewed by veterans? Was it remembered as good/bad/indifferent?
This was the general consensus, this set is notorious for creating very complex board states. It was death amongst new players because of this (Lorwyn as well).
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Man I love Lorwyn and Shadowmoor for many reasons but yeah, the board complexity was insane. My Merfolk deck could pull some sick shit with Merrow Commerce in play
For however much I hated that block for spawning Faeries, I loved drafting it precisely because there was so much going on. Plus it was topped off by triple Eventide drafting, which consistently produced the most absurdly fast and strong boros decks I've ever seen in limited.
Shadowmoor Sealed Deck is one of my favorite formats ever, but I never got a chance to draft it.
divisionbyzorro
Member
Well, that's a Morphling variant... I hope it's playable. Morphling was so iconic, and its relegation to unplayable over the years makes me sad
Cool limited draw spell
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!
It's back!
...okay, they may have earned back some Selesnya goodwill
divisionbyzorro
Member
So I'm still playing that SSE draft. I just put a Presence of Gond on a Patrol Signaler, made three 1/1 tokens straight away, and my opponent lost connection to the game.
I'll assume it's a coincidence, but it's amusing nonetheless.
Ugh. I hope this doesn't mean I'm seeing more Slippery Bogles in Modern...
I'll assume it's a coincidence, but it's amusing nonetheless.
Ugh. I hope this doesn't mean I'm seeing more Slippery Bogles in Modern...
Era's almost over, they've admitted to Geist/Stalker being massive mistakes.
The fact that on the "evergreen" keyword list in YMTC, Hexproof was present while Shroud was absent still makes me worried.
Essentially, we won't be seeing 1/2 drops with Hexproof. Expect bad green creatures and expensive creatures.
Shadowmoor block was the only format ever where I enjoyed playing sealed more than draft. Draft felt pretty un-interactive, like Avacyn Restored, especially before Eventide came out. Lorwyn block limited was my favorite limited format until Rise of the Eldrazi came out. Merfolk was one of the most enjoyable limited archetypes ever!
Concerning the newest spoilers, I'm not sure how T2 playable Aetherling is but it looks AWESOME. I love how its first ability simulates both Morphlings shroud and untap abilities. I also appreciate that it looks like a Morphling variant as opposed to whatever the hell Thornling is supposed to be. Also cool to see a Modern Armadillo cloak too. My Ravnica Super Block Cube could use a few hexproof guys so its a shame that will likely not come to pass. I still really hope there are a few good one drops waiting to be spoiled too.
Good, shroud has no place in Modern magic. Just don't put it on unblockable dudes for two mana and we're fine.
Concerning the newest spoilers, I'm not sure how T2 playable Aetherling is but it looks AWESOME. I love how its first ability simulates both Morphlings shroud and untap abilities. I also appreciate that it looks like a Morphling variant as opposed to whatever the hell Thornling is supposed to be. Also cool to see a Modern Armadillo cloak too. My Ravnica Super Block Cube could use a few hexproof guys so its a shame that will likely not come to pass. I still really hope there are a few good one drops waiting to be spoiled too.
Good, shroud has no place in Modern magic. Just don't put it on unblockable dudes for two mana and we're fine.
divisionbyzorro
Member
Well, I lost in the second round of the second SSE draft to pretty shitty draws; mull to 6, keep 3 lands, 3 spells, and don't draw another spell until the turn I die. The spells were fantastic (Prison Term, Steel of the Godhead, and a white hill giant), but with nothing to back them up I just couldn't deal with my opponent's plays.
That's not counting game two where his T3 Noggle Ransacker binned my Presence of Gond with my T2 Pili-Pala on the table. Oh well
By the way - is mono-red the only deck that anybody drafts? Seriously? Or is just the most obvious linear deck and that's why it's popular?
I actually really enjoyed it, but I don't think I'll throw any more tickets at it - I don't see what good it does me to spend more time/money learning the format when it's just here for the weekend. I managed to pull a Regal Force as my Eventide rare in both drafts; with that and the packs I won it only cost me a few tickets to do a couple of drafts. And I picked up a couple of the filter lands too, which I might as well keep.
Also:
That's not counting game two where his T3 Noggle Ransacker binned my Presence of Gond with my T2 Pili-Pala on the table. Oh well
By the way - is mono-red the only deck that anybody drafts? Seriously? Or is just the most obvious linear deck and that's why it's popular?
I actually really enjoyed it, but I don't think I'll throw any more tickets at it - I don't see what good it does me to spend more time/money learning the format when it's just here for the weekend. I managed to pull a Regal Force as my Eventide rare in both drafts; with that and the packs I won it only cost me a few tickets to do a couple of drafts. And I picked up a couple of the filter lands too, which I might as well keep.
Also:
FieryBalrog
Member
The art style in this block is fantastic. I need a foil of this card.
The return of painterly art is a breath of fresh air.
Vangu Vegro
Member
From what I've heard, she decided she could earn more money focusing on illustrating things other than Magic cards. And I guess not having to deal with art directors who don't think her style's appropriate for whatever setting they're going for anymore is a bonus too.
...I miss her too.
New Morphling? Ghostways itself? Becomes unblockable? Is even larger than Thornling? Is a regular rare in a small set? I'm looking forward to getting a playset of this card, even if it turns out to be "bad" in constructed.
I'm torn between this new card drawer and Thoughtflare for the Izzet deck I'll eventually end up building. I just realized it hits players, but sorcery speed hurts it a lot (it would've been bonkers in limited otherwise, I guess).
The remade Armadillo Cloak sounds good, but it's going to be considerably weaker now due to backbreaking cards like Azorius Charm. It doesn't gain the enchantment controller life since it grants lifelink, so it no longer works as a sort of "enchanted creature can't attack" aura like Armadillo Cloak could.
The gorgon could work well in limited, providing a large body and a way to murder opposing guildmages and utility creatures using your scavenge counters, could set up a surprise block using an unleashed creature or could be used alongside evolve for some cute, sort-of repeatable removal.
It wasn't added late in development, it was just swapped with Emmara so that she wouldn't hog a mythic slot. I think it isn't even a decent hate bear (more like "bear that suggests you don't do something"), and it probably won't break standard right open. It's only good against control decks, and even then it merely hoses Azorius Charm (anything else could be played at sorcery speed). If anything, I think people are probably setting themselves up for a disappointment, as many of the chase cards before a set comes out often end up being not as good as people originally thought, since they were evaluating them on a vacuum.
By the way, here's a new card!
Translation:
RB
Goblin Warrior
Haste
3/1
The art's amazing. The flavor text looks like it was translated from an english pun, which has rearely gone well before (Werebear? Firebolt? *snarl*).
I wanna play this in a deck with Blasphemous Act haha
By the way, AEtherling being card number 11 probably means it's the first blue card, so there're 10 white cards. Therefore, there must be ten monocolored cards per color, for a total of 50 monocolored cards, alongside 11 lands and 10 cluestones, which means the set has lot and lots of multicolored cards! (<3) I love me some multicolored, but not all, since I I'm really wary of stuff such as Alara Reborn (and I opened a whole booster box of that thing... ugh..).
Keru_Shiri
Member
Dragon's Maze is looking to be very kind to Izzet players in Limited.
Why would it be called Dragon's Maze otherwise?
They were mostly bad in RTR, so it makes sense they want to make it up to them now.
acheron_xl
Member
Also:
Would've been awesome if it was free to activate and on a better (probably rare) body. Instead it's just limited chaff.
I agree that the card isn't likely to break standard open - never claimed such - but the bolded is all pretty blatantly untrue.
You're evaluating the card in a vacuum, and not considering how it's going to be played in standard (and modern) - as a hyper efficient attacker with an extremely powerful punisher effect, preventing the incremental advantage decks get from flash, think twice, counters, end of turn removal, etc. A lot happens during your opponent's turn in standard right now, and putting your opponent in a situation where this wouldn't benefit them is ludicrous.
obviously, I realize the instants = elementals ability is the punisher mechanic, and is worse than grand Abolisher's ability... The thing is, most of the time, in standard, it will still manage to be a good approximation of grand Abolisher -- except it's easier to cast, generates a token when it dies, and is in a format where instants are MUCH more important.
Abolisher was a 4-of archetype staple.
Restoration angel can't act as a removal spell without generating one or more blockers for you. Snappy is forced to hit the board at sorcery speed. Searing spear becomes volcanic hammer.
It hurts control most, but it's solid against nearly every other deck in the format just by being an efficient 4-of in a deck that lacks two drops. It also forces them to be careful about when to cast tricks and burn.
WHY DID NOBODY TELL ME SHADOWMOOR DRAFT WAS SO FUCKING FUN HOLY SHIT
I'm in mono white with two conversion sideboards (white or black) depending on who I'm up against. My deck is just a pile of goodstuff, filler, and plains... but I managed to pick up a scarecrone.
The deck now has a scarecrow suite in it. I won round 1 2-0 by sandbagging the scarecrone until the opponent dealt with my less threatening creatures, and now I'm just enjoying the ride.
Also got a finks and a spectral proc, which helps. I didn't know a draft format could be this in-depth.
black conversion: removal, the bad gravedigger that costs golgari mana, puppeteer clique
azorius conversion: misthollow witch, some tempo stuff
I'm in mono white with two conversion sideboards (white or black) depending on who I'm up against. My deck is just a pile of goodstuff, filler, and plains... but I managed to pick up a scarecrone.
The deck now has a scarecrow suite in it. I won round 1 2-0 by sandbagging the scarecrone until the opponent dealt with my less threatening creatures, and now I'm just enjoying the ride.
Also got a finks and a spectral proc, which helps. I didn't know a draft format could be this in-depth.
black conversion: removal, the bad gravedigger that costs golgari mana, puppeteer clique
azorius conversion: misthollow witch, some tempo stuff
Still, punisher cards are often weak since they simply let your opponents optimize their game plan, even if they have to play around the card. Gruul aggro decks, for example will often end up throwing a Flame Spear or Pillar of Flame at it with leftover Burning-Tree Shaman mana.
I was mostly speaking not about the standard metagame (which I don't pay attention to), but rather the card by iself. I might've missed some important trends this card could capitalize on, and it's true it will mostly force your opponents to play their spell-based removal on their own turns, and think twice before playing a Restoration Angel or Snapcaster Mage on your turn, but I still don't like it that much.
I question Voice's Modern viability when, as I said before, Thalia is almost guaranteed to be a more impactful 2-drop. It's not as good as Qasali or Gaddock either for hosing specific strategies.
It might get a slot or two in G/W hatebears but I think we'll see it most in Standard if we see it at all.
It might get a slot or two in G/W hatebears but I think we'll see it most in Standard if we see it at all.
do you have any idea how good it is for you to have a sorcery speed searing spear hit your two drop and give you a token after? You're using the 'dies to removal' argument on a creature that doesn't die to removal. It gives you something else and forces your opponent to throw off their game by denying them the ability to play that searing spear later.
I agree that pillar of flame is an answer, but it's a narrow one that doesn't see as much play as it did when zombies was a more impactful deck.
narcosis219
Member
Is Voice really a $20+ card? The closest thing to this is Abolisher, but that guy was only $8 at his peak iirc. Not to say that their effects are the same, but they way you're describing it is that no opponent would ever play a spell on your turn, which in effect is Abolisher. The extra body that appears after it dies is pretty relevant too, I guess, but how much more does that add?
It's overpriced now (as ALL chase rares are before release) but it'll drop down as time goes on assuming nobody breaks it in half.
Oh, so that's where the disconnect was coming from. My local playgroup has several creatures you don't want to hit the graveyard, so most people playing red tend to run Pillar of Flame. A guy who was playtesting for some qualifiers had some in his gruul deck, so it made me think they were still being played competitively as well.
Choosing guilds for the prerelease is such a pain... I will be going Golgari for the first one, but I'm not sure if I should play the same guild again or something else... Orzhov could be fun, but while I'd like to go Simic, it just has so little to offer in its guild booster that I might as well choose a different guild and see if I get enough U/G playables from DGM to play it.
I could also go Izzet for the second one, which have Niv, the Chemist, Mortars and Cyclonic rift as interesting rares, but I'd hate my guys if I ended up getting a Boros pack with it (Simic would rock, as would Dimir).
Many guilds look like they wouldn't play well with their possible allies (ie: Izzet + Boros? Rakdos + Dimir?), so it's hard to decide which one I'll be using...
I think Voice is very, very bad right now. It's not a Human.
This is... actually kind of a problem, yeah. "Very very bad" is an overstatement though. It's still playable, but I'm starting to see that it won't stay at the $20 mark unless it finds a home in standard, which I'm no longer certain it has.
The card is pushed, and while isn't anywhere near grand abolisher at what it did (azorius charm into verdict, sphinx's revelation, etc don't care) it's going to see some play, even without a home. Just not necessarily a 4-of top-8 make-this-card-$40 home.
Kind of hoping some of those are real
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