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Magic: the Gathering - Battle for Zendikar |OT| Lands matter (but nothing else does)

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A

acheron_xl

Member
In regards to that fish leviathan, it kinda makes Balance feel weird to me, to just have it on a creature with P=T. I still think a blue thing getting menace is fine. Has that been pitched to Maro yet? He'd know if it was in-pie. And as far as aesthetics, the mana cost is 9, it's a 9/9, why not have it tap 9 creatures?
 
O

OnPoint

Member
acheron_xl said:
Just hit a nerve, is all. Not that your post is particularly hostile, it just reinforces the attitude that often disincentivises me to post in this thread, the lone Magic thread on the one forum I actively post on. I hate feeling like I'm threadjacking whenever I want to contribute something just because custom cards, EDH and occasionally cube is the only way I interact with the game.
Click to expand...

It's an odd thread sometimes, you can never predict how people are going to react in here. Sometimes custom cards elicit lots of convo, other times they're ignored. For the most part, I like these folks, even if I couldn't care less about standard right now and have more fun dreaming up unprintable planeswalkers.
 
H

Hero

Member
acheron_xl said:
Just hit a nerve, is all. Not that your post is particularly hostile, it just reinforces the attitude that often disincentivises me to post in this thread, the lone Magic thread on the one forum I actively post on. I hate feeling like I'm threadjacking whenever I want to contribute something just because custom cards, EDH and occasionally cube is the only way I interact with the game.
Might be a decent fix. It'll be a tricky mechanic anyhow. That reminder text (which I think is pretty important to include) will really eat up the space on the card before any abilities are added.
Click to expand...

I prefaced the post by saying I may be in the minority. I'm not telling anyone to do anything, all I'm doing is voicing my own opinion. If this is the only forum you post on you may want to expand your horizons as there are Magic forums that have subforums dedicated to making cards, but that's just a personal suggestion.
 
Y

y2dvd

Member
This is an all around MtG discussion thread. We aren't big enough to have sub threads for lores, custom cards, formats, spoilers, etc. Anything MtG related is game and I'm fine with that. Now let's all settle this with a game of EDH. :D
 
A

acheron_xl

Member
Hero said:
I prefaced the post by saying I may be in the minority. I'm not telling anyone to do anything, all I'm doing is voicing my own opinion. If this is the only forum you post on you may want to expand your horizons as there are Magic forums that have subforums dedicated to making cards, but that's just a personal suggestion.
Click to expand...

Oh, I know. I've had an account on Salvation for 11 years, but I've only been posting in their custom card forums with any regularity for the last 6 months or so. I prefer to actually have chit-chat here though, because gaffers are, pound-for-pound, smarter and better at Magic. Same reason why I was a semi-regular at Misetings and avoided MTGNews way back in the day. I posted my set on MTGS, and it went relatively unremarked upon. I also put stuff here, and got one or two really good suggestions (I had some pretty rule-breaking stuff that someone said I shouldn't do, so I pulled it.)

And for shits and giggles, here's my current card of the day, from the set I'm working on. Never mind the placeholder art.

Vitalizing%20Shell_zpsy2jsdeyb.jpg
Click to expand...
 
S

SigmasonicX

Member
acheron_xl said:
In regards to that fish leviathan, it kinda makes Balance feel weird to me, to just have it on a creature with P=T. I still think a blue thing getting menace is fine. Has that been pitched to Maro yet? He'd know if it was in-pie. And as far as aesthetics, the mana cost is 9, it's a 9/9, why not have it tap 9 creatures?
Click to expand...

At this point, menace is still new as an evergreen ability, so I expect that MaRo would want to restrict it to red and black for now. He has said that he might consider it tertiary in green, but nothing about blue. Blue already has access to trample as the "thing that goes on big creatures sometimes", and I expect he'd say that there's no need for another ability for the same purpose.

And Wizards has given up and officially revealed all of the Expeditions.
 
G

"God's Beard!"

Member
I'm starting to like having a Dark Petition package in the sideboard of Jeskai Black. Very Gifts package-esque:


  • 1 Dark Petition
  • 1 Infinite Obliteration
  • 1 Virulent Plague
  • 1 Ruinous Path

You can bring in the Petition + Obliteration and Path vs Ramp, + Virulent Plague and Path vs Esper Tokens, just a cool package. Plus if you already have the card in hand you can just grab a Dragonmaster or whatever then use the mana to cast the card you already had.
 
A

acheron_xl

Member
Cubing now, and I'm playing four GW lands, a GW signet and a Mox Pearl just to splash a single Ravages of War in an otherwise mono-G deck, because I just can't help myself. I'll probably lose horribly.
 
G

"God's Beard!"

Member
acheron_xl said:
Cubing now, and I'm playing four GW lands, a GW signet and a Mox Pearl just to splash a single Ravages of War in an otherwise mono-G deck, because I just can't help myself. I'll probably lose horribly.
Click to expand...

acheron_xl said:
Mox Pearl just to splash a single Ravages of War in an otherwise mono-G deck
Click to expand...

acheron_xl said:
Mox Pearl just to splash a single Ravages of War
Click to expand...

acheron_xl said:
Mox Pearl just to splash
Click to expand...

Pretty sure you'd play that Mox Pearl with no white cards lol
 
A

acheron_xl

Member
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";190350128]Pretty sure you'd play that Mox Pearl with no white cards lol[/QUOTE]

Well, obviously. I got it 1.3.

acheronxl asked: Would Menace on a Giant Blue Monster™ be a thing that's acceptable in rare occurrences?

Possibly. We stretched Intimidate to Blue on rare occasion.
Click to expand...

Well, there's that.
 
G

"God's Beard!"

Member
Man, Vintage is silly.


  • Black Lotus
  • Dark Ritual
  • Dark Ritual
  • Dark Petition

This 4-card hand would be a turn 1 Storm kill with Tendrils and still have leftover mana lol


  1. Cast Lotus (BBB)
  2. Cast Dark Ritual (BBBBB)
  3. Cast Dark Ritual (BBBBBBB)
  4. Cast Dark Petition for yawg will (BBBBB)
  5. Cast Yawgmoth's Will (BB)
  6. Cast Lotus (BBBBB)
  7. Cast Dark Petition for Tendrils (BBB)
  8. Cast Dark Ritual (BBBBB)
  9. Cast Dark Ritual (BBBBBBB)
  10. Cast Tendrils of Agony (BBB)
 
C

charlequin

Banned
ThLunarian said:
I'm friends with a guy who used to work there in a fairly high position, and I can confirm that this is the case. No one really knows what they're doing, least of all the Magic Online team. I don't remember any specific stories, but his tone was always one of extreme frustration and bewilderment when talking about the company's ineptitude
Click to expand...

Almost all their problems come down to budget ultimately. Their digital teams consist of bad developers managed by incompetent managers because they think prestige is a good substitute for money -- so they pay 20% less than game industry standard (which is already 20% lower than real developers) and get only crummy people as a result. (The MODO team is also where they dump people for failure which doesn't help.)

The organized play team actually does a very good job overall, their biggest issues are low budget for running events and having to enforce random punishments passed down from elsewhere in the company.
 
E

Etrian Oddity

Member
So I'm trying to figure out the color pie in this.

Image.ashx


Why is this B/U and not mono Black? Too powerful for a single color casting cost? I would loved to have run this in a Golgari deck....
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";190355381]Man, Vintage is silly.


  • Black Lotus
  • Dark Ritual
  • Dark Ritual
  • Dark Petition

This 4-card hand would be a turn 1 Storm kill with Tendrils and still have leftover mana lol


  1. Cast Lotus (BBB)
  2. Cast Dark Ritual (BBBBB)
  3. Cast Dark Ritual (BBBBBBB)
  4. Cast Dark Petition for yawg will (BBBBB)
  5. Cast Yawgmoth's Will (BB)
  6. Cast Lotus (BBBBB)
  7. Cast Dark Petition for Tendrils (BBB)
  8. Cast Dark Ritual (BBBBB)
  9. Cast Dark Ritual (BBBBBBB)
  10. Cast Tendrils of Agony (BBB)
[/QUOTE]
They just Force it. It's Vintage, there's a ton of Turn 1 combos.

Or in the alternative, other bullshit that prevents that from happening like anything Shops does or Flusterstorm.
 
C

Crocodile

Member
@Ashodin:

  • Is this a set you're making to be drafted/play in limited? That will influence how you build the set
  • I'm not sure I like a mechanic that adds flash to a wide swath of cards. Is Mono-White viable in constructed/limited? Seems like it could lead to obnoxious combat if I have to worry EVERY dude you have has flash.
  • I don't think I like Balance being on creatures with innate equal power & toughness. It seems a major theme of your set is using equipment (with uneven power & toughness boosts) to make unbalanced creatures into balanced ones. If your dudes are already balanced, you become dis-incentivized from equipping them which feels bad.
  • Since you have a mechanic that keys off power & toughness, make sure you know your layer rules. Also be extra careful with spells that temporarily alter power & toughness. Make sure you well understand, as well as any players, how sudden P & T changes can influence combat.
  • Have you laid out how the ten color pairs will behave in your set? It can be argued that WOTC follows this principle a bit too closely but I do think its a good skeleton to bounce of. Make sure many different decks with different strategies can come out of your set for the sake of play variety.
  • I think Menace is justifiable on your Blue Mythic but I dunno why that second line is on there. What am I missing?
 
A

Ashodin

Member
Responses:

I'm actually thinking of cubing it after I make it so I can get some good draft/balance feedback.

Lightbringer? It's a planted preview of more powerful versions in the second set (codename Whiteout). It's not a full-fledged mechanic in this set.

Balance is inherently a "white" mechanic. You'll see it on more white creatures as I reveal them. It has "spread" to the other colors because white mana is the only color on Paladium that isn't diminishing (for some unknown reason). Oeander has it particularly because it can be used to give insane things to creatures and allow other players to remove the effects by applying -X/-0 or -0/-X to them. It works both ways in my opinion. Oeander is one of the rare times you will see it used in this way, however.

I'm precariously looking at P/T stuff to make sure I'm not getting into weird territory.

I've been involved in a set that looks at that stuff, and yes, I'm looking into it before I fully flesh out the set.

Second line is on Oeander in case he becomes a chump blocker after knocking him off balance. Remove pesky blockers for your other peeps to get through.

Two more cards:

gBa1SB1.png
BmQXVEg.png
 
F

Firemind

Member
It's less expensive than going to a store. Have to pay for parking everywhere here. :(

It's not like I open any money cards anyway. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
 
G

"God's Beard!"

Member
Firemind said:
It's less expensive than going to a store. Have to pay for parking everywhere here. :(

It's not like I open any money cards anyway.
Click to expand...

I'm not a fan of paying 14 bucks for what is ultimately phantom drafting since I have no plans on playing constructed on MODO. Especially since it costs me more to play with digital cards than the 11-12 bucks the local shops charge for paper.
 
F

Firemind

Member
Yeah but I also played a lot of paper drafts before (at least once a week) and the only thing I've ever gotten was salt. SALT. Like, there was a time when someone opened a Snapcaster Mage and a foil LotV in the same pack. Print sheets how do they work?
 
L

Lucario

Member
Anyone have insight on the 4 color rally vs Eldrazi Ramp matchup? I'm on the rally side, and it's been brutal.


So far, most of my matchup wins have been from bad opponents who don't realize Catacomb Sifter and morphed Grim Haruspex dodge Ugin's -X. I've been boarding in duress to take out early ramp, but it makes my CoCos worse, and my clock usually isn't fast enough for that to be good enough, especially when they're gaining life.

Taking their Ugin before they untap with 8 mana has been working better for me, but the fuckers always seem to topdeck another one.
 
S

SigmasonicX

Member
Ashodin, one thing I'm wondering is if you've been putting a lot of work into making the commons of your set. The three big pieces of advice that MaRo has for creating a set are to keep organized, iterate playtesting and design constantly, and start at common. The act of having to create common cards, and having to playtest with just common cards, will show you just how well mechanics work out and what aspects should be emphasized. To be honest, I'm still not convinced that lightbringer and balance are mechanics that play well, and the earlier version of battleworn had obvious flaws that demonstrated that you hadn't actually tested it that much. Here's a link to the Nuts & Bolts articles again. These articles don't outright say it, but it's mentioned in other articles that early playtesting is done using sealed instead of draft.
 
D

duxstar

Member
I only want to play draft, and care very little about the value of online cards, and hate the MTGO program. So I just draft on cockatrice, and have more fun without spending $15 for the privilege of owning cards i wont ever do anything with.

Also you know whats nice, that you never "mis click" or click through a play on cockatrice, since your dealing with a human they either "know" what you are doing, or can explain it to them. Plus If I get screwed due to a random number generator (that I personally don't trust) I'm not out 15 dollars.

For people like me there is no incentive to use Magic Online.
 
A

Ashodin

Member
SigmasonicX said:
Ashodin, one thing I'm wondering is if you've been putting a lot of work into making the commons of your set. The three big pieces of advice that MaRo has for creating a set are to keep organized, iterate playtesting and design constantly, and start at common. The act of having to create common cards, and having to playtest with just common cards, will show you just how well mechanics work out and what aspects should be emphasized. To be honest, I'm still not convinced that lightbringer and balance are mechanics that play well, and the earlier version of battleworn had obvious flaws that demonstrated that you hadn't actually tested it that much. Here's a link to the Nuts & Bolts articles again. These articles don't outright say it, but it's mentioned in other articles that early playtesting is done using sealed instead of draft.
Click to expand...

I haven't done much testing yet, but I'm working off theory and tweaking things as I go. And yes, I'm going to get around to making the commons.
 
S

SigmasonicX

Member
Ashodin said:
I haven't done much testing yet, but I'm working off theory and tweaking things as I go. And yes, I'm going to get around to making the commons.
Click to expand...

If your intention is to make a full blown set, with commons and uncommons, that can be drafted, and your goal isn't to just make fun one-off cards, then to be blunt, stop fiddling with your rares! Make a design skeleton, and then fill it with commons! Playtest your commons, and only after you are satisfied, start filling out the higher rarities, keeping in mind that uncommon is even more of a bottleneck than common. Then test with the whole set in mind. Using feedback from your testing with higher rarities, you'll then start modifying your commons as you feel best. And then keep testing and modifying.
 
Alcibiades

Alcibiades

Member
SigmasonicX said:
If your intention is to make a full blown set, with commons and uncommons, that can be drafted, and your goal isn't to just make fun one-off cards, then to be blunt, stop fiddling with your rares! Make a design skeleton, and then fill it with commons! Playtest your commons, and only after you are satisfied, start filling out the higher rarities, keeping in mind that uncommon is even more of a bottleneck than common.Then test with the whole set in mind. Using feedback from your testing with higher rarities, you'll then start modifying your commons as you feel best. And then keep testing and modifying.
Click to expand...

Gotta second this. Remember most people won't open particular mythics and will likely opens rares once or twice (at most) depending on how often they draft the set.
 
D

duxstar

Member
Firemind said:
If I wanted to draft with nothing on the line I'd just draft with friends instead of strangers.
Click to expand...

I dont even know if I have 7 friends .... let alone 7 that all play magic that all also want to stay up with me till 2 or 3 am playing drafts over and over again. I practice online so I do better when it matters in paper.
 
A

acheron_xl

Member
Alcibiades said:
Gotta second this. Remember most people won't open particular mythics and will likely opens rares once or twice (at most) depending on how often they draft the set.
Click to expand...

Plus rares are somewhat fungible in any given design. You can make any dumb old card with a bunch of text on it a rare. Commons have to be simple, with low word counts, while still communicating your themes. Building a skeleton and filling out the commons is a real nice way to learn the themes you're trying to push.
 
F

Firemind

Member
son of a bitch

i just got decked. again. by ashiok this time.

i had the karn in hand but he exiled all my lands before i could draw them lol
 
F

Firemind

Member
divisionbyzorro said:
Ashiok is damn good in Cube. You don't have to protect him for very long to run away with the game. I love that guy a lot.
Click to expand...
the funny thing was the second ability didn't matter once because somehow he missed all my creatures in like eight turns.

okay fuck it. i had sol ring, karn and ugin in the last draft and i still lost. time to go all in.

LKxSpPl.png
 
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