Support NeoGAF

[robox]

ok. so can the same thing be applied to royal assassin?

assassin blocks one.
taps to destroy the other.
assassin takes damage from attacker 1 and dies. does it still do damage attacker 1?

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

I'm dumb.

 

[Ravager61]

ok. so can the same thing be applied to royal assassin?

assassin blocks one.
taps to destroy the other.
assassin takes damage from attacker 1 and dies. does it still do damage attacker 1?

Assassin will still deal its combat damage.

That's correct. The attacker it blocks deals damage but royal assassin doesn't since it's tapped.

Not true. Even though the creature is tapped, it is not removed from combat and will still deal its damage.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

Assassin will still deal its combat damage.



Not true. Even though the creature is tapped, it is not removed from combat and will still deal its damage.

Ya, make sense. As long as the creatures are there for the damage step they should always deal damage. Not sure what I was thinking about.

 

[The Technomancer]

Ya, make sense. As long as the creatures are there for the damage step they should always deal damage. Not sure what I was thinking about.

I always forget the sub-steps of combat and when you have to tap down attackers or blockers for them not to attack or block and stuff.

 

[An-Det]

I always forget the sub-steps of combat and when you have to tap down attackers or blockers for them not to attack or block and stuff.

Same, I'm pretty bad at it. I can do decent after practicing with specific decks and formats and situations, but if I'm picking something up I generally fuck it up before I get the rhythm of it within the metagame (example: when to animate creatures vs Cryptic Command).

 

[Ravager61]

Just remember that the player who's turn it is, will always have first priority to respond to attackers and blockers.

So, after attackers are declared, the attacking player has first priority to respond to his own attackers. He then passes priority to the defending player who can play their own spells or abilities if they wish.

The same goes with blockers. The defending player declares blockers and the attacking player has the first opportunity to respond after blockers are declared.

 

[The Technomancer]

Yeah, its just that when I was younger I played it like you could respond to an attacker being declared by tapping it. Whereas if I understand the rules now I have to tap them down at the beginning of combat, before attackers are declared.

 

[Ravager61]

Yeah, thats a really common mistake. Once a creature is tapped an attacking, responding by tapping the creature will do nothing because it is already attacking. You also can't remove a creature from combat by untapping it.

Another common mistake I see a lot is people trying to prevent abilities that require tapping as a cost, by tapping them after the ability is already activated.

For example, if I were to activate Grim Lavamancer and my opponent responded by tapping it with Icy Manipulator, this would do nothing because Lavamancer is already tapped and its ability is on the stack.

 

[The Technomancer]

For example, if I were to activate Grim Lavamancer and my opponent responded by tapping it with Icy Manipulator, this would do nothing because Lavamancer is already tapped and its ability is on the stack.

Yeah, learning this makes a lot of tapdown cards seem slightly less ridiculous, as now the person using them has to be pre-emptive and not just reactive.

 

[George Claw M.D.]

Ya, make sense. As long as the creatures are there for the damage step they should always deal damage. Not sure what I was thinking about.

Once upon a time, you would have been correct. If you've been playing Magic for a while, you may be remembering an older rule. The rule, up until 6th Edition, was that tapped blocking creatures dealt no combat damage.

 

[rexor0717]

I was really surprised to see that Woodfall Primus is sold out everywhere except channel fireball. As soon as I realized how awesome it could be in Ghave, its all gone. >:[

 

[V_Arnold]

Hm, with Modern properly introduced to offline play, I am thinking of creating an artifact-based deck. Time to go card-hunting. I have 2 mox opals already, I really hope their price goes up, not down, once the sets rotate

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

Once upon a time, you would have been correct. If you've been playing Magic for a while, you may be remembering an older rule. The rule, up until 6th Edition, was that tapped blocking creatures dealt no combat damage.

Might be, I played up until 6th edition and got back in on release day of beseiged.

 

[OnPoint]

Brainteaser: My opponent has a creature. I play Mind Control on it and take control. Then, I equip Lightning Grieves on it.

My opponent believes that my Lightning Grieves would nullify my Mind Control because he owns the creature. He thinks the Hexproof ability is tied to ownership, not control.

I believe my Mind Controls is fine, because Hexproof is an ability the prevents the targeting of spells played by my opponent. Since I control the creature, it affects his spells, despite actual ownership.

Which is it?

Spoiler

He could equip Lightning Grieves on it to kill the enchantment, no? That's not what happened here, this is just a secondary question

Second brainteaser: If I use an Icy Manipulator to tap an opponent's creature, can he respond by tapping that creature to use its ability?

 

[Keru_Shiri]

Brainteaser: My opponent has a creature. I play Mind Control on it and take control. Then, I equip Lightning Grieves on it.

My opponent believes that my Lightning Grieves would nullify my Mind Control because he owns the creature. He thinks the Hexproof ability is tied to ownership, not control.

I believe my Mind Controls is fine, because Hexproof is an ability the prevents the targeting of spells played by my opponent. Since I control the creature, it affects his spells, despite actual ownership.

Which is it?

Spoiler

He could equip Lightning Grieves on it to kill the enchantment, no? That's not what happened here, this is just a secondary question

Shroud/Hexproof only prevents a creature from being targeted. Once the Mind Control is on the creature, it stops targeting and starts enchanting the creature so no, the Mind Control wouldn't go away. Note that if the creature were to somehow get Protection from Blue (difficult to do on a shrouded creature) then the Mind Control would fall off, since Protection stops both targeting and enchanting.

Second brainteaser: If I use an Icy Manipulator to tap an opponent's creature, can he respond by tapping that creature to use its ability?

Yes, since tapping the creature is considered a cost paid, and would occur on the stack before Icy resolves.

Hope this helps!

EDIT: Hexproof cares about control, not ownership. 2nd person adjectives typically refer to the controller, except in cases when it refers to outside-the-battlefield. For example, if you gained control of a card that read "During your upkeep, pay BBB or return [CARDNAME] to your hand" the controller would have to pay the cost, or return the card to it's owner's hand.

 

[OnPoint]

Shroud/Hexproof only prevents a creature from being targeted. Once the Mind Control is on the creature, it stops targeting and starts enchanting the creature so no, the Mind Control wouldn't go away. Note that if the creature were to somehow get Protection from Blue (difficult to do on a shrouded creature) then the Mind Control would fall off, since Protection stops both targeting and enchanting.



Yes, since tapping the creature is considered a cost paid, and would occur on the stack before Icy resolves.

Hope this helps!

It absolutely does. Thanks.

Anyone else draft M12? What scheme did you like the best, or have you seen be the most successful? A friend of mine drafted a black deck and stomped the hell out of us with Sorin's Thirst, Doom Blade and that unblockable 1/1 creature whose name I'm blanking on right now.

 

[y2dvd]

It absolutely does. Thanks.

Anyone else draft M12? What scheme did you like the best, or have you seen be the most successful? A friend of mine drafted a black deck and stomped the hell out of us with Sorin's Thirst, Doom Blade and that unblockable 1/1 creature whose name I'm blanking on right now.

I think it's Blinding Souleater. I posted it a few pages back. Whenever I was able to combo him with Dark Favor, I won my rounds.

2 weeks ago I won an M12 draft (granted) against my friends. I went tri color R/G/U. I had Mana Leak and Cancel for the high costing stuff. Phantasmal Bear for a cheap 2/2. Shock and Incenerate to deal with creatures. Had Globin Fireslinger to get bloodthrist started and if I was lucky, they played an island, allowing my 3/3 croc to go unblocked. Acidic Slime totally ruined my buddies, mana pool. Had that 7/7 green beast that let me reveal the top card and if it's a creature, I can play it onto the battlefield. I comboed that with Druidic Satchel which was constantly pumping out saprolings, gaining life, or putting more land into play.

That deck worked out suprisingly wonderful for me.

 

[OnPoint]

Sounds like a killer deck. We did two drafts yesterday, four people each. I ended up winning the first round with a green/white deck that used fast cost creatures... but the winners were really Garruk and Sun Titan. I'd probably have lost the final round without them. Twas a lucky draft to say the least.

The second round I put together a blue mill deck. I ended up with two Jace's Erasures in play at once and kept playing card draw. I also had that Sphinx that deals damage and discards. I won my first bout, but ended up losing the second to the aforementioned black deck. Still, I can't believe my deck functioned as well as it did.

 

[ultron87]

Another rules question:

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=226905

When does Lure "activate"?

If I declare a creature with Lure as an attacker, and then the enchantment gets destroyed by a Naturalize (or whatever) do all the creatures still have to block the creature or does it go back to normal rules?

I've been having fun with Lure + Onyx Mage. Now you have to attack my thing with death touch. Muahahahaha.

 

[An-Det]

Another rules question:

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=226905

When does Lure "activate"?

If I declare a creature with Lure as an attacker, and then the enchantment gets destroyed by a Naturalize (or whatever) do all the creatures still have to block the creature or does it go back to normal rules?

I've been having fun with Lure + Onyx Mage. Now you have to attack my thing with death touch. Muahahahaha.

Lure is only relevant during the Declare Blockers step. If it is destroyed beforehand, they may block however they want.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

I think it's Blinding Souleater. I posted it a few pages back. Whenever I was able to combo him with Dark Favor, I won my rounds.

2 weeks ago I won an M12 draft (granted) against my friends. I went tri color R/G/U. I had Mana Leak and Cancel for the high costing stuff. Phantasmal Bear for a cheap 2/2. Shock and Incenerate to deal with creatures. Had Globin Fireslinger to get bloodthrist started and if I was lucky, they played an island, allowing my 3/3 croc to go unblocked. Acidic Slime totally ruined my buddies, mana pool. Had that 7/7 green beast that let me reveal the top card and if it's a creature, I can play it onto the battlefield. I comboed that with Druidic Satchel which was constantly pumping out saprolings, gaining life, or putting more land into play.

That deck worked out suprisingly wonderful for me.

I'm pretty sure you're thinking of tormented soul. Tormented soul is the black unblockable 1/1 from M12, blinding souleater is from new phrexia that has the pay 1 white or 2 life to tap target creature.

 

[alternade]

How is everyones local Meta? Mine is w/u control heavy. We have the same people winning every week with the same deck.

 

[ultron87]

Winning a game with Soren's Vengeance by drawing the swamp you needed on the turn before you were definitely dead is way to enjoyable.

And (in my other deck) Precursor Golem is fascinating and terrifying. If you play a instant on that and kick it are all the copies kicked or would you have to spend the money for each copy of the spell?

 

[rexor0717]

Winning a game with Soren's Vengeance by drawing the swamp you needed on the turn before you were definitely dead is way to enjoyable.

And (in my other deck) Precursor Golem is fascinating and terrifying. If you play a instant on that and kick it are all the copies kicked or would you have to spend the money for each copy of the spell?

I lol'd. Sometimes I feel that mana is used like money for certain cards.

 

[ThLunarian]

Winning a game with Soren's Vengeance by drawing the swamp you needed on the turn before you were definitely dead is way to enjoyable.

And (in my other deck) Precursor Golem is fascinating and terrifying. If you play a instant on that and kick it are all the copies kicked or would you have to spend the money for each copy of the spell?

Yep. So, if you play a kicked Rite of Replication on a Precursor Golem, you end up with 28 3/3 Golems (I think... my math might be wrong there, but it's a shit ton)

 

[noquarter]

Why we are asking rules questions, how would Reins of Power work if played after declaring blockers? I played it after I was attacked and declared 0 blockers since I thought it would just have the attackers attack my opponent, but we couldn't find anything and just called the attack step over. Any ideas?

Kinda excited to take my almost T2 Knight deck and make it Vial Knights, lots of two and three drops, just need to come up with something for card advantage.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

Why we are asking rules questions, how would Reins of Power work if played after declaring blockers? I played it after I was attacked and declared 0 blockers since I thought it would just have the attackers attack my opponent, but we couldn't find anything and just called the attack step over. Any ideas?

Kinda excited to take my almost T2 Knight deck and make it Vial Knights, lots of two and three drops, just need to come up with something for card advantage.

I can be wrong but I'm assuming the attack would just end. It's already too late to declare new attackers so you switch, nothing was declared as attackers so then you enter main phase 2.

Winning a game with Soren's Vengeance by drawing the swamp you needed on the turn before you were definitely dead is way to enjoyable.

And (in my other deck) Precursor Golem is fascinating and terrifying. If you play a instant on that and kick it are all the copies kicked or would you have to spend the money for each copy of the spell?

No it isn't, I hate people like you. I've lost too many times last 3 weeks to someone top decking or getting the last swamp for that when I can kill them the next turn.

 

[ultron87]

No it isn't, I hate people like you. I've lost too many times last 3 weeks to someone top decking or getting the last swamp for that when I can kill them the next turn.

Well it obviously isn't the way I'd prefer to win. I'd prefer not to be on six land for the majority of a fairly long game. But finally getting that swamp when I needed it was nice.

Also, it was a 3 player game so it's not like hardcore competition was the biggest concern on our minds anyway. I was only able to win that way because the other player hit him with a Shock out of spite once it was clear she was going to lose.

 

[Ravager61]

I can be wrong but I'm assuming the attack would just end. It's already too late to declare new attackers so you switch, nothing was declared as attackers so then you enter main phase 2.

This is correct. The creatures are all removed from combat when they switch sides. They also have summoning sickness so they wouldn't be able to tap to use abilities for the rest of the turn either.

 

[y2dvd]

I'm pretty sure you're thinking of tormented soul. Tormented soul is the black unblockable 1/1 from M12, blinding souleater is from new phrexia that has the pay 1 white or 2 life to tap target creature.

Ah you are probably correct. Was going off the top of my head.

Why is 'U' used for blue? I mean, I understand we got 'B' for black but how did blue became notated as 'U'?

Did commander for the first time last Thursday and man was it chaotic fun. The politics that forms was quite entertaining. I gave my buddy Warstorm Surge before we played not knowing he was going to put it in his commander deck. Man, what a mistake. He played that card with another card that lets him put into play an angel, dragon, and demon I think every time he attacks. So he was bringing 6/6 creatures onto the battlefield all the time and then pinging us or our creatures. We had to team up on that fool lol.

 

[The Technomancer]

Ah you are probably correct. Was going off the top of my head.

Why is 'U' used for blue? I mean, I understand we got 'B' for black but how did blue became notated as 'U'?

IIRC B was for Black, and L was used for land by some people, so U was the next letter in the word Blue.

 

[noquarter]

This is correct. The creatures are all removed from combat when they switch sides. They also have summoning sickness so they wouldn't be able to tap to use abilities for the rest of the turn either.

Alright, thanks. But they can use abilities since Reins of Power gives all creatures haste.

 

[WanderingWind]

"U" is the dominant sound in "blue." Since black is a hard "b" it got that one.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

Alright, thanks. But they can use abilities since Reins of Power gives all creatures haste.

Yes, any tap abilities are able to be used due to haste.

 

[Leunam]

Daily Magic has announced the next duel decks.

I must have both.

 

[WanderingWind]

I'm seriously considering selling all my cards except for the duel decks and commander decks. Balanced play > anything else for me.

 

[ajf009]

I was wondering if i could use a card like snap on a creature in a graveyard?

 

[Hex]

I'm seriously considering selling all my cards except for the duel decks and commander decks. Balanced play > anything else for me.

$50

 

[WanderingWind]

$50

no u

 

[siddx]

I was wondering if i could use a card like snap on a creature in a graveyard?

nope, it would say "return target creature from your graveyard to your hand" if it could. Snap only works with creatures in play.


I decided to head down to the Boston 5K...my bank account is going to regret this.
I don't know why they call it boston 5k though, its nowhere near boston from what I can tell.

 

[Hex]

no u

I have sold out too many times now, I am in for the long haul lol

 

[siddx]

I was recently talking to someone I see at most of the tournaments around here, he's considered the best limited player in our state and is a pretty nice guy and full of good advice. He mentioned he used to have a collection worth 30K but he went to a big tournie years ago and someone stole his binders while he was in the bathroom. I cant even fucking imagine losing $30,000 worth of cards like that, I'd bar the fucking doors and set the place on fire I'd be so enraged.

 

[Ravager61]

I was recently talking to someone I see at most of the tournaments around here, he's considered the best limited player in our state and is a pretty nice guy and full of good advice. He mentioned he used to have a collection worth 30K but he went to a big tournie years ago and someone stole his binders while he was in the bathroom. I cant even fucking imagine losing $30,000 worth of cards like that, I'd bar the fucking doors and set the place on fire I'd be so enraged.

Crap like this is so common and Magic tournaments too. When I was going to tournaments still I used to hear stories like this all the time. There are a lot of assholes in the Magic community.

 

[Hex]

Crap like this is so common and Magic tournaments too. When I was going to tournaments still I used to hear stories like this all the time. There are a lot of assholes in the Magic community.

People get stupid in any public Magic situation.
I see people come to FNM all of the time and leave their stuff on a table and go outside to smoke or go gab with someone on the other side of the room.
Back in the day the pre-releases were not held at local shops, we had the pre-release in Orlando at Disney Wide World of Sports and it was a huge arena with artist signings and all kinds of side tournies and people would do the same thing way back then.

NEVER take more than you need to events, make one trade book and never leave it around.

 

[An-Det]

NEVER take more than you need to events, make one trade book and never leave it around.

Absolutely. I usually keep a few decks on me when I go to my LGS for random shit, but anymore higher (ptq's, gp's, etc) or at unfamiliar places and I only bring the essentials (especially since my decks are usually $1k+ since I mostly play legacy). I dont trade either, which helps keep my stuff small. Deck, pen and paper, small tupperware of dice, and a playmat are all I carry, plus some water bottles (sometimes snacks) in my backpack.

 

[Fragamemnon]

If you are at a large tourney I just bring a carefully sculpted trade binder-watched religiously-and my deck. My boxes of playable staples stay at home.

Anyone brewing Modern? I'm pretty sold on Bant (the only decent Cryptic Command deck because of the GSZ /Hierarchs/Dryad Arbor ramp package), Boom-Bust Bloodbraid Zoo, and a G/B Death Cloud build. I don't play combo, which is what seems best in the format but oh well.

 

[Ravager61]

If you are at a large tourney I just bring a carefully sculpted trade binder-watched religiously-and my deck. My boxes of playable staples stay at home.

Anyone brewing Modern? I'm pretty sold on Bant (the only decent Cryptic Command deck because of the GSZ /Hierarchs/Dryad Arbor ramp package), Boom-Bust Bloodbraid Zoo, and a G/B Death Cloud build. I don't play combo, which is what seems best in the format but oh well.

I don't play much at all anymore but to me, Zoo seems like its going to be super powerful in this format. Especially since they basically killed any combo/control deck with the banned list.

 

[Fragamemnon]

Zoo is pure raw power but most builds attacks from a very simple, singular, and narrow vector, which makes it easy to hate out. I'd rather start with something like Kibler's bant-y list from PT Austin or Boom/Bust cascade that diversity their angles rather than just slapping down Goblin Guides and Nactals and hoping for the best. The latter strategy just loses to the first prepared opponent.

I don't think control decks are neutered, they just need to stop trying to be so damn cute with slow crap like Gifts Ungiven, Mystical Teachings, and Cruel Ultimatum and instead focus on control deck fundamentals-a solid, reliable mana base, a good way to maintain board control, ways to win battles on the stack as a last resort or to fight combo (which is going to run very little protection in this format), and mana-efficient, fast win cons.

That's kind of why I think Caw-Blade won the first big Modern tournament at a side event last week. It does all of the above with no BS. There are other ways to do the above but require people to not insist on playing their pet contol deck cards.

 

[An-Det]

We were testing a few decks yesterday. One was a Steppe Lynx fast zoo, another was a Confidant build that was slightly slower (both domain right now), a bant list, a Dragonstorm one, and an artifact one that I didnt see much of. The format is fun so far, but we were looking to build some kind of EE-based control since Zoo is fucking fast and strong.