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Magic: the Gathering |OT11| Amonkhet - Have you ever had decks with a Pharaoh?
- Thread starter SigmasonicX
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Yeah, it's hard to justify Reflector being banned (even though it was annoying as hell) but not the turn 4 two card instant kill combo.
Policy Changes for Amonkhet
The mess that was "go to combat" has been solved! Now that means going to the beginning of combat step.
The mess that was "go to combat" has been solved! Now that means going to the beginning of combat step.
divisionbyzorro
Member
This was the most infuriating moment from last season. Glad to see that common sense prevails.
Simply Sarah
Member
So I'm looking at the Ban and Restricted announcement and, reading between the lines a bit, I feel like they're saying "We reallly really don't want to do more Standard bans right now even though we know we should do them. Expect a Cat ban and maybe Heart/Gideon ban after the PT unless a miracle happens, which it won't because we just banned Top".
Huh. So basically there's now a sort of weird pre-Beginning of Combat step where priority for the active player is skipped? Kind of a limbo between Main 1 and Beginning of Combat?
Huh. So basically there's now a sort of weird pre-Beginning of Combat step where priority for the active player is skipped? Kind of a limbo between Main 1 and Beginning of Combat?
I get the top ban. It is annoying to play against and it legitimately slows down games. It is also hard to heal with and essentially impossible to remove once it hits, you've either got to counter it or have a chalice on 1 to prevent it from hitting the field.
That said it really does just neuter the entire miracles deck, and I am unsure if the shell can survive. The deck light function with 4 ponder and using brainstorm more carefully to still be able to counterbalance. I probably would have preferred terminus overall, a 1 mana board wipe is pretty awful to get around and was probably more frustrating for me than top. Maybe this gives burn a bit of reach, though I do fear that storm and combo decks are going to be much better. Maybe eldrazi becomes the deck to beat. Chalice to prevent storm and some beaters and fast mana to go through delver.
That said it really does just neuter the entire miracles deck, and I am unsure if the shell can survive. The deck light function with 4 ponder and using brainstorm more carefully to still be able to counterbalance. I probably would have preferred terminus overall, a 1 mana board wipe is pretty awful to get around and was probably more frustrating for me than top. Maybe this gives burn a bit of reach, though I do fear that storm and combo decks are going to be much better. Maybe eldrazi becomes the deck to beat. Chalice to prevent storm and some beaters and fast mana to go through delver.
Ita like the autopass button. If you say it you cant back up to main phase even if they do anything.
Glad to see Top gone, holy shit theyre cowards w no standard bans.
divisionbyzorro
Member
The idea is that if I say "Go to combat?" and you respond, I can't claim you were responding in my main phase. And if I say "Go to combat?" and you don't respond, you can't say I missed the beginning of combat phase.
Really surprised by the Top ban, just because there has been a group if people advocating for the ban for a long time, given the reasons they stated minus Miracles being the best deck.
It has always been there, it is just the shortcuts skipped it since it very rarely saw use. Even though with the shortcuts you would possibly think you are going to that Beginning of Combat phase that exists before declare attackers.
I think the real issue was not banning cat and gideon earlier. Of all the times they've passed on banning the two, this- in a vacuum- is most forgiveable as its on the eve of the first major set release following the solidification of the cat/mardu meta. The problem is we're not in a vacuum and each time they pass on banning the two, the scrutiny is compounded by the fact that they've passed on banning it X times before.
I still think they should have banned it, but the principle of not banning right as a brand new set hits isn't a terrible one in isolation. It just has horrible optics at this particular moment. This PT could prove a huge failure for them too, if the day is dominated by those two decks.
...that they ban cards that should be banned? I'm not seeing the trend here other than sensible bannings....
I still think they should have banned it, but the principle of not banning right as a brand new set hits isn't a terrible one in isolation. It just has horrible optics at this particular moment. This PT could prove a huge failure for them too, if the day is dominated by those two decks.
...that they ban cards that should be banned? I'm not seeing the trend here other than sensible bannings....
divisionbyzorro
Member
They fucked up by not banning Guardian during the post-PT ban phase last cycle, and they're doubling down on their fuck-up by not banning it now.
Kirblar is right - they're scared as hell because they banned an unprecedented three cards not too long ago, and it's keeping them from doing the right thing.
Kirblar is right - they're scared as hell because they banned an unprecedented three cards not too long ago, and it's keeping them from doing the right thing.
Just came out of the theater after Fate of the Furious(it was alright: 5>7>3>6>8>1>4>2) and I don't wanna tell you that I called it, but I totally called it. I think it's a bad idea to wait, but absolutely expected them to not pull the trigger and gather more data first.
I for one am not buying any copies of Rhonas anytime soon. I did, however, order my playset of Glorybringers to smash face together with Saheeli and the Cat. The Cat interacts with Cast Out as well, oh boy.
I for one am not buying any copies of Rhonas anytime soon. I did, however, order my playset of Glorybringers to smash face together with Saheeli and the Cat. The Cat interacts with Cast Out as well, oh boy.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
That's what we said last time.
It's the equivalent of playing it out when you're at 2 life and your opponent has a huge board just because there's a possibility of some kind of out in your deck, even if you don't know what it is.
The "data" thing is absolute horseshit. That's just a buzzword that means "don't wanna ban more stuff in Standard." It's the same protocol that led them to ban Skullclamp and leave Ravager Affinity around way too goddamn long.
It's not unprecedented: they once banned eight cards in a single announcement in Standard. Granted, it was effectively three cards because six of them were artifact lands.
Right, I know that step exists, but now there's a little window that is after the main phase, but before things trigger at the beginning of combat that the non-active player has the chance to act in because of this part: "Beginning of combat triggered abilities (even ones that target) may be announced after any non-active player action has resolved."
So now if you actually want to act ideally as the non-active player with the most available information, you need to be extra precise. They say "combat", you say "okay", they do their stuff or decide to pass, then you decide if you want to act. If you act after the first time they say combat you give up information by letting them know what you're going to do before deciding targets or activating man lands or whatever.
divisionbyzorro
Member
I stand corrected. Mirrodin was a decade and a half ago though - while not unprecedented, it's been a very very long time since they've banned this many cards in Standard.
Infinite Stars
Member
This is so dumb.
I really, really want to know why Wizards thinks that the format will magically fix itself without any bans.
Nothing in Amonkhet can kill CopyCat/Gideon, and both promote nothing about Amonkhet.
It's a shame, because I was actually debating getting back into Standard.
Also, their comment on Modern sounds like they're trying to find a way to help Blue/White, which sounds good to me.
I really, really want to know why Wizards thinks that the format will magically fix itself without any bans.
Nothing in Amonkhet can kill CopyCat/Gideon, and both promote nothing about Amonkhet.
It's a shame, because I was actually debating getting back into Standard.
Also, their comment on Modern sounds like they're trying to find a way to help Blue/White, which sounds good to me.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Most Standard bans seem to involve multiple cards. Jace went with Stoneforge, Mirrodin had Clamp banned first, then practically every functional part of Affinity banned. Urza's block had eight separate cards banned in Standard.
The history of the Ravager bans sounds a little familiar (from MTGGoldfish):
"It took a while. Wizards was delusional. Before Mirrodin, there had been no bannings in Standard since the Urza fiasco and no bannings in Block since Lin Sivvi. Wizards had tightened up their development and invested in playtesting. A small mistake like Skullclamp here and there, sure, that was possible, but the whole Affinity deck? Surely it would self correct. Surely they could help it correct itself by printing a few solutions.
When Onslaught rotated out, a bad meta turned worse. Wizards figured that since Mirrodin was so powerful, they had to weaken Kamigawa to curb the power creep. This was a valid strategy in the long run, but the immediate impact was that nothing in Kamigawa could come close to compete with Affinity. With Slide, Goblins and other strong Onslaught decks rotating out, Affinity was left as the sole ruler and players were leaving Standard to a point where Wizards was having flashbacks from Urza's Saga. They simply couldn't wait for Kataki, War's Wage anymore. In March 2005, Wizards finally bit the bullet, admitted their mistake and banned Arcbound Ravager, Disciple of the Vault and the artifact lands in Standard."
divisionbyzorro
Member
It's the same philosophy that keeps them from repealing the Reserve List. They value the customer's perception of the value of their cards as assets above all else.
Not being personally invested in standard means that I lol'd reading this.
Not being personally invested in standard means that I lol'd reading this.
It wasn't even as if affinity was hard to figure out. It was a deck that built itself basically - people werenchucking it together almost as soon as Morton came out, and Arcbound Ravager was such an obvious fit into the deck you would have to be mad to miss it.
Artifact blocks always go wrong for Magic...
Artifact blocks always go wrong for Magic...
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
The various list of cards banned in Urza's block is obviously dumber, but I can understand why those cards exist as a person who played before that: I quit the game because of the perception the cards were getting weaker and weaker and weren't competing with the original sets.
Imperfected
Member
I wonder what glorious artifact cheese would have evolved out of the Kaladesh block's meta if it hadn't been completely unnecessary to dig any deeper than the most brain-dead basic over-pushed artifact creatures/vehicles in the set.
There was probably some fun/dumb tech that never had a reason to be sought.
There was probably some fun/dumb tech that never had a reason to be sought.
Ayyyyyyyyy
AYYYYYYYYY LMAO
seriously though folks are you surprised?
I had this at 70% - 30%. The 30% being WotC might ban because they dropped the bans before Kaladesh last time.
It's absurdly and absolutely clear Gideon is not leaving Standard until rotation.
Felidar Guardian won't eat a ban until after PT Amonkhet at the earliest, or become irrelevant by Ixalan.
I hate to see the Premier format like this look like absolute dogshit right before the 25th anniversary.
They have no fucking idea what they're doing. We need more bans, not less. Answers don't get printed fast enough. Fuck the pros who whine about it. This is about the common man.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I like the part where he says Muraganda and Dinos are on the short list, but there could be some elsewhere...Dominaria, for instance has dinosaurs. He might as well just literally say "next block after Ixitron (or whatever the hell its called that I can't remember) is Dominaria".
Yes, I'm surprised. I kind of assumed they weren't fuckin' idiots pandering to their imaginary construction of the dumbest Magic player in existence.
I'm surprised too. I thought they wouldn't be stupid to the point they're being stupid right now.
But I don't see how Copycat will become "irrelevant" by Ixalan outside of a ban, there's very little you can do to make the combo not completely warp a dumb format like Standard.
But I don't see how Copycat will become "irrelevant" by Ixalan outside of a ban, there's very little you can do to make the combo not completely warp a dumb format like Standard.
They explicitly stated with Emrakul they hated banning a face card of a set, so it's clear they have "bubububu muh card value" in mind
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I went 3-1-1 at the Prerelease.
The only games I lost were to a nine-year old girl that had to stand for all of the games because she wasn't tall enough to play at the tables.
She told me she wants to play in a PTQ. Really.
The only games I lost were to a nine-year old girl that had to stand for all of the games because she wasn't tall enough to play at the tables.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Huh. Damn shame, since Amonkhet seems pretty well balanced on its own.
Felidar Guardian should have been a 2/2.
Everything would have been fine.
Everything would have been fine.
Limited, as usual, is amazing. Which is the only thing they balance for ayyyyyyyyy
I generaly enjoy the opportunity to actually get to play my decks though, and I do sometimes get killed t3
Yea I hear that, but I feel like it's a better investment than standard. How many years of standard do you get for the price of a fun & competitive modern deck?
Hell yeah!
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
The thing is, I think the format has room to get worse. Part of the reason is that their explanation is partially correct: there actually is quite a bit of playable Artifact hate in Amonkhet. I wouldn't be surprised in the least to find that Vehicles is quite bit less good than it was in KLD-AER.
But there's basically nothing relevant against the Combo in Amonkhet. There's a decent possibility you're taking the format from Cat Combo vs. Mardu Vehicles to Cat Combo vs. Anti-Cat Combo. Which is a miserable place for a format to be in.
But there's basically nothing relevant against the Combo in Amonkhet. There's a decent possibility you're taking the format from Cat Combo vs. Mardu Vehicles to Cat Combo vs. Anti-Cat Combo. Which is a miserable place for a format to be in.
100% with you there, I should have used quotation marks for "gathering data". They're just scared and making it look they're embarrassed to admit that they fucked up, despite acknowledging that they missed the combo during development.
I guess we'll see what happens with the format, but that date in June is basically guaranteed to be the day the cat dies.
They did restrict Lodestone Golem a few months ago.
divisionbyzorro
Member
Potentially yes, although Gush is a really fucked up Magic card and probably shouldn't have been unrestricted in the first place. Poor Menendian.
Oh cool; I've still got a Saheeli that needs selling, and I thought I'd miss the boat.
That said, I've never actually sold cards; how should I go about doing that? Are there online stores that give reasonable deals? Should I try Ebay or something similar?
EDIT: Wait, she's only $8? Huh; I'd really expected her to be more than that...
That said, I've never actually sold cards; how should I go about doing that? Are there online stores that give reasonable deals? Should I try Ebay or something similar?
EDIT: Wait, she's only $8? Huh; I'd really expected her to be more than that...
If you are in the US I think you can sell stuff through TCGPlayer and from what I've heard channelfireball has a decent buylist.
But yeah, she's not very expensive.
Imperfected
Member
Dack Fayden stole my car!
I mean, yes they hate banning "face"/high-value cards currently in print, and that makes sense from a business and promotional standpoint, but the thing is Felidar Guardian isn't the face of anything other than cancer and is a freaking Uncommon.
Bin the thing already.
If you're in Europe you can get them super cheap in mkm. Like 2,5-3 cheap.
Joe Molotov
Member
I think everybody that plays EDH in my lgs already is that asshole. TFW 3+ tops are on the table.
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