• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Magic: the Gathering |OT9| Kaladesh - Cruisin' Down the Street in my 6/4

Status
Not open for further replies.
A

An-Det

Member
What a strange finals matchup, a control deck no one took seriously and a red snow land control deck. I'm really enjoying this, though.
 
A

An-Det

Member
Well shit, a local store (Ice Imports) just closed their main store. Their post says that they weren't doing enough non-mtg business stay keep it afloat. Now I'll have to find a new place to play Legacy, that was a good crew there.
 
B

bigkrev

Member
An-Det said:
Well shit, a local store (Ice Imports) just closed their main store. Their post says that they weren't doing enough non-mtg business stay keep it afloat. Now I'll have to find a new place to play Legacy, that was a good crew there.
Click to expand...

That sucks. I had an LGS close this year (we still have a big one though, its just less convenient for me, and I totally remember biting stuff from Ice Imports in Amazon
 
H

Hero

Member
Wait, what's up with the Eternal Scourge in the skred decklist?

Edit:

Is it just because it's super resilient and will come back after Anger of the Gods?

What a weird list. 1x Magma Jet, 1x Batterskull?
 
K

kirblar

Member
Hero said:
Wait, what's up with the Eternal Scourge in the skred decklist?

Edit:

Is it just because it's super resilient and will come back after Anger of the Gods?

What a weird list. 1x Magma Jet, 1x Batterskull?
Click to expand...
Can be exiled w/ Relic. Also really obnoxious for Infect to get around as a blocker.
 
C

charlequin

Banned
Santiako said:
Skred vs Grixis Control finals, literally no one would have predicted it.
Click to expand...

So I've been thinking about this control thing -- people talking about control being "a PT deck" in the Kaladesh Standard format, and Huey talking about how Control is "dead" in Modern at the start of this week's coverage, and then control decks making the finals of both that PT (in Standard) and this GP (in Modern)....

So the question here is: why do people keep saying control is bad in these formats, and then players go on to dominate events in those formats with these control decks? My offhand theory is that the level of skill necessary to play control decks these days is greater than other decks by a larger margin than it was in the past, and as such these decks are more likely to only succeed in the hands of good players playing well-metagamed decks.
 
K

kirblar

Member
charlequin said:
So I've been thinking about this control thing -- people talking about control being "a PT deck" in the Kaladesh Standard format, and Huey talking about how Control is "dead" in Modern at the start of this week's coverage, and then control decks making the finals of both that PT (in Standard) and this GP (in Modern)....

So the question here is: why do people keep saying control is bad in these formats, and then players go on to dominate events in those formats with these control decks? My offhand theory is that the level of skill necessary to play control decks these days is greater than other decks by a larger margin than it was in the past, and as such these decks are more likely to only succeed in the hands of good players playing well-metagamed decks.
Click to expand...
Correct. Control used to have such giant haymakers that you could just faceroll through matchups.
 
F

Firemind

Member
charlequin said:
So I've been thinking about this control thing -- people talking about control being "a PT deck" in the Kaladesh Standard format, and Huey talking about how Control is "dead" in Modern at the start of this week's coverage, and then control decks making the finals of both that PT (in Standard) and this GP (in Modern)....

So the question here is: why do people keep saying control is bad in these formats, and then players go on to dominate events in those formats with these control decks? My offhand theory is that the level of skill necessary to play control decks these days is greater than other decks by a larger margin than it was in the past, and as such these decks are more likely to only succeed in the hands of good players playing well-metagamed decks.
Click to expand...
Traditional draw go is dead, isn't it? Think of the times when Whispers of the Muse got played. Nowadays you need a deck that can shift gears when the momentum is on your side and the way to do it is to play efficient spells. It's not odd to see Lightning Bolt to the dome, Snapcaster, Lightning Bolt to the dome to close games in Modern, even against Affinity and Infect. In the past, Lightning Bolt was strictly used as efficient removal in control decks. It's only ever used as a finisher in a control mirror match when you have a bunch of them sitting in your hand.

Shota gonna Shota.
 
H

Hero

Member
charlequin said:
So I've been thinking about this control thing -- people talking about control being "a PT deck" in the Kaladesh Standard format, and Huey talking about how Control is "dead" in Modern at the start of this week's coverage, and then control decks making the finals of both that PT (in Standard) and this GP (in Modern)....

So the question here is: why do people keep saying control is bad in these formats, and then players go on to dominate events in those formats with these control decks? My offhand theory is that the level of skill necessary to play control decks these days is greater than other decks by a larger margin than it was in the past, and as such these decks are more likely to only succeed in the hands of good players playing well-metagamed decks.
Click to expand...

I pretty much agree with your assessment. As some people in here have talked about before, WotC's card design philosophy has changed. A control deck used to be able to jam 4x Counterspell or 4x Mana Leak and a couple cheap cantrips or draw spells and sit back on an efficient haymaker. Now with the way they do cheaper/efficient counterspells but specific to certain types of spells (i.e.Negate, Ceremonious Rejection) you have to be very selective of what you run in your 60/75. This also extends to discard spells and removal ever since they reprinted Thoughtseize and Hero's Downfall. You could jam both of those cards and be prepared for almost anything and it even hit planeswalkers! So card overall efficiency isn't what it used to be because it doesn't lead itself to interesting deckbuilding decisions and makes it harder to solve the meta. Before Kaladesh I was really bitching about how monored//burn spells in modern are sucking but realized they're doing to burn spells what they did to counterspells/discard/removal. Red decks have to build with specific types of burn spells to hit creatures or players and if it's both then it's not going to be as efficiently costed.
 
E

ElyrionX

Member
Hero said:
I pretty much agree with your assessment. As some people in here have talked about before, WotC's card design philosophy has changed. A control deck used to be able to jam 4x Counterspell or 4x Mana Leak and a couple cheap cantrips or draw spells and sit back on an efficient haymaker. Now with the way they do cheaper/efficient counterspells but specific to certain types of spells (i.e.Negate, Ceremonious Rejection) you have to be very selective of what you run in your 60/75. This also extends to discard spells and removal ever since they reprinted Thoughtseize and Hero's Downfall. You could jam both of those cards and be prepared for almost anything and it even hit planeswalkers! So card overall efficiency isn't what it used to be because it doesn't lead itself to interesting deckbuilding decisions and makes it harder to solve the meta. Before Kaladesh I was really bitching about how monored//burn spells in modern are sucking but realized they're doing to burn spells what they did to counterspells/discard/removal. Red decks have to build with specific types of burn spells to hit creatures or players and if it's both then it's not going to be as efficiently costed.
Click to expand...

This whole reading the metagame and building the control deck with the right answers thing is goddamn bullshit. Sure, maybe you can do it for FNM when you have a rough idea of who's going to show up and the decks they usually play. But a GP? Forget about it. You can't possibly predict what 500 - 1000 people are going to be playing, at least not with the data that we currently can get our hands on.

Narrow answers like Negate, Spell Pierce and Mana Leak are only going to be getting you so far and are dependent on your matchups. And that's just the first layer of variance. Playing narrow answers as 1-ofs is utterly ridiculous. Sure, that 1 Negate in your deck is going to work great against Burn but good luck to you actually drawing it when you need it.

Control needs broad answers to stay relevant. In the current Modern metagame, the control decks posting good results only made it there with a huge dose of luck.
 
G

GoutPatrol

Forgotten in his cell
charlequin said:
So I've been thinking about this control thing -- people talking about control being "a PT deck" in the Kaladesh Standard format, and Huey talking about how Control is "dead" in Modern at the start of this week's coverage, and then control decks making the finals of both that PT (in Standard) and this GP (in Modern)....

.
Click to expand...

Getting to the finals is one thing. When that Grixis Control deck was the only Grixis Control deck in the top 100 after day 1. Same thing with Jeskai, same thing with Skred. When the top 64 after day 2 is a whole lot of Infect, Jund, Zooicide/Temur Kiln Fiend and Burn. Getting reps with the deck matters. If you've been playing your Control deck forever it will give you a game or two.
 
G

"God's Beard!"

Member
I like the new Lantern Control tech of playing Crucible of Worlds now that they have Inventor's Fair.

Not a huge fan of Glint-Nest Crane and playing three Abrupt Decay main, though.
 
S

Santiako

Member
Titus Linter shared this piece of art, saying that it's not the full piece:

Amonkhet_BlogSplash_1200x630.jpg


That's a big ass crocodile man.
 
Wulfric

Wulfric

Member
Titus Lunter stays winning. Dude only has like 20 cards (5 expeditions!) to his name and he's already become quite popular. Is that a jackal/Anubis man in the bottom left?

I'd be cool with a Legendary Dog, honestly

ztzHQ5J.jpg
 
H

Hero

Member
ElyrionX said:
This whole reading the metagame and building the control deck with the right answers thing is goddamn bullshit. Sure, maybe you can do it for FNM when you have a rough idea of who's going to show up and the decks they usually play. But a GP? Forget about it. You can't possibly predict what 500 - 1000 people are going to be playing, at least not with the data that we currently can get our hands on.

Narrow answers like Negate, Spell Pierce and Mana Leak are only going to be getting you so far and are dependent on your matchups. And that's just the first layer of variance. Playing narrow answers as 1-ofs is utterly ridiculous. Sure, that 1 Negate in your deck is going to work great against Burn but good luck to you actually drawing it when you need it.

Control needs broad answers to stay relevant. In the current Modern metagame, the control decks posting good results only made it there with a huge dose of luck.
Click to expand...

There's always luck involved, so I'm not sure what you're alluding to? No deck can possibly be crafted to counter every other type of deck effectively, you just have to create your deck to combat what you think people are going to be playing and be lucky in dodging them during the tournament. How is that any different for non-control decks?
 
O

OnPoint

Member
Wulfric said:
Titus Lunter stays winning. Dude only has like 20 cards (5 expeditions!) to his name and he's already become quite popular. Is that a jackal/Anubis man in the bottom left?

I'd be cool with a Legendary Dog, honestly

[IMGhttp://i.imgur.com/ztzHQ5J.jpg?1[/IMG]
Click to expand...

Looks like. And to his right a bit seems like there's a bird person. Nifty stuff.
 
H

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Uldum, the not-egypt zone.

Lul bolas horns
 
F

Firemind

Member
OnPoint said:
Oh I meant in paper. I didn't even consider MODO haha
Click to expand...
I still have 4 Koth and 2 Sheets lying around but it's too much of a hassle to turn Magic cards into actual stone cold cash.

Edit: I also have Blood Moons and Stormbreaths actually. I could build Skred Red right now haha
 
C

Crocodile

Member
I feel like people's timelines in these conversations are a bit skewed? Counterspell hasn't been relevant (or available) outside of Legacy for like a decade and balanced, non-oppressive control decks existed during windows where powerful counterspells like Mana Leak were available. Like the time of Randy Blue was before most people in this thread even were playing Magic. This is not to say its not clear that the design philosophy regarding control cards has changed at WOTC. It's just that when people were saying "control seems hard/bad in this current Standard/Modern metagame" its not because they were pinning for the days of "20 counterspells + 2 wincon".deck days.
 
O

OnPoint

Member
Firemind said:
I still have 4 Koth and 2 Sheets lying around but it's too much of a hassle to turn Magic cards into actual stone cold cash.

Edit: I also have Blood Moons and Stormbreaths actually. I could build Skred Red right now haha
Click to expand...

Was it you who I traded with for the Blood Moons? Kinda regret getting rid of those haha I might have to buy back in at some point
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

  • x2
Call-Of-Duty-Black-Ops-6 |OT| Even the Truth Lies Apparently Phil.
28 29 30 31 32
2K
43K
Lagspike_exe replied
Magical Delicacy - Release Date Trailer | Launches July 16 on Xbox, PC, Switch and Game Pass
News Trailer
0
484
Thick Thighs Save Lives replied
Akatsuki Games and Aniplex reveal pixel art action RPG HYKE: Northern Light(s)
News Trailer
1
382
NeoIkaruGAF replied
Promise Mascot Agency - Announcement Trailer
Trailer
4
586
nikolino840 replied
Maid Cafe on Electric Street - Coming to Steam on November 18
News Trailer Indie
7
1K
Thick Thighs Save Lives replied
Top Bottom