No I don't think so. I have 3 from MM and 1 from the Dark. Not sure it I want to get rid of them. I assume they're only going to go up.
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Magic: the Gathering |OT9| Kaladesh - Cruisin' Down the Street in my 6/4
- Thread starter SigmasonicX
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Oh no, the ones I traded were from Chronicles. I have one left from MM myself. It seems to be holding fast at $30 right now, maybe I'll buy one every couple weeks.
Someone just won the tournament doing exactly this.
Yes, you have to get lucky and avoid bad variance. But it was clear that he wasn't getting lucky when we were seeing him play, his deck was actually overperforming and compensating for his play errors.
Mana Leak was incredibly oppressive. It did awful things to the format - it was just most oppressive in a Tempo shell.
charlequin
Banned
I didn't say they were oppressive during those previous eras, just that they were faceroll-y. The irony being targeted here is people who have spent years complaining how WotC doesn't do enough to respect "high-skill" control decks, but then aren't actually able to play them well once they actually become high-skill decks.
Infinite Stars
Member
Plus, for what it's worth, Wizards seems to fine having Conditional UU Counters be printed in Standard(We've had Stubborn Denial, Silumgar's Scorn and Surge-Counter since KTK), so it's not like they're against counters.
Still think that Horribly Awry would Have been better without the Creature clause though and might have stopped CoCo Geddon. I'd kill for a 1U Counter target spell <=3 CMC.
Still think that Horribly Awry would Have been better without the Creature clause though and might have stopped CoCo Geddon. I'd kill for a 1U Counter target spell <=3 CMC.
The difference is that a control deck is inherently reactive and hence, lives and dies by its answers whereas the decks in the format now are primarily proactive decks that can just race to the win.
Terese Nielsen will be selling Guru land playmats!
Oooh. Where?
SigmasonicX
Member
Analysis of what we know about Amonkhet. I didn't notice the two suns.
There's zero skill involved when an Infect player casts a Become Immense and you only have Spell Snare in hand while Negate is somewhere in your library; there's just no decision to make. The narrowness of these cards means that it never makes sense to run a full playset of them so it just comes down to how lucky you are to have the right answer in hand at the right time.
Just because Infect//Become Immense is stupidly overpowered doesn't mean situational/specific cards aren't better for design. Obviously with eternal formats they're kind of screwed but that's why we have the ban list and just like Treasure Cruise and Dig through Time got the axe, so will Become Immense. You're comparing a prime example of a card that was pretty much unplayed in standard to a balanced but situational counterspell.
You can replace Become Immense with any other key wincon of any proactive deck and my point will still remain the same.
Spell Snare is not balanced at all. It is a stupidly narrow counterspell that saw play only because of the peculiarities of the format and the fact that control decks do not have many broad answers at 2CMC and below.
Cryptic Command is an example of a balanced counterspell.
Spell Snare is a great card because it lets you counter their turn two card if you're not on the play. What you don't seem to realize is that the mere possibility of counterspells can alter how the game is played, even if a player doesn't have it. If you spell pierce or mana leak a spell in the first game and board them all out in the second game they will still play around those cards. That is powerful in itself.
The fact that you think Cryptic Command is a "balanced" counterspell card shows how out of touch you are. That card is the exact opposite of what kinds of cards should be printed since it is literally the fucking kitchen sink. Counter a spell and cantrip, sweet. Tap down your dudes and bounce that problematic permanent, awesome! Look at me! I'm such a good control player because this card lets me do anything!
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
and mystic confluence is still frickin good.
Cryptic Command is so good, that's why you see it in every blue deck, amirite?
You have to build a goddamn mana base around the card just to play it.
Edit: If you're playing three colors, Cryptic Commands forces you into making suboptimal decisions on fetching lands, especially in the face of a potential Blood Moon.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
First of all you're talking "control" decks and most control decks stretch their manabase thin to be able to play Cryptic Command. You usually see only a single sacred foundry / blood crypt to multiple Ux lands in Jeskai and Grixis
That's my point. When deckbuilding, you need to make very conscious decisions to squeeze Cryptic Command into your deck. And even with that, it is very rarely played as a 4-of, typically a 2-of, because it is too slow and too demanding on the manabase.
We just had an insano discussion a few days ago on a different card too lol
It's a worse Mana Drain.
Yeah, Mother of Runes. Being of an appropriate power level for standard. Which when you really think about it, it totally i--pffftttttt hahahaha OK. I can't even continue that statement.
Me and my bud were so giddy when Plasm Capture was revealed. Wrong set, wrong time.
Plasm Capture would be so good right now letting you cast Emrakuls like it's nothing.
divisionbyzorro
Member
Plasm Capture is so good in EDH.
Oh darn, how am I ever going to build this manabase with all these shock, fetch, check, and filter lands?
Guys, JTMS is rarely played as a 4 of in eternal formats, he's clearly not that busted.
charlequin
Banned
Yawgmoth's Will is totally a safe card for Standard.
Joe Molotov
Member
Strip Mine is a fair card since it costs you and your opponent both a land.
They made Past in Flames and it had no impact on Standard
Without Rituals and stuff that sacks for mama, Will is a strong card, but probably wouldn't see any play.
Joe Molotov
Member
Exile SSG and Fork your opponent's Ancestral Recall. Now we're playing Magic, boys!
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
you can't play lands of past in flames and it costs 1 more. Pulse of murasa saw constructed play so why wouldn't yawg's will.
I would agree that without rituals, Will is not quite as good, but:
Past In Flames =/= Yawgmoth's Will
Will allows you to play anything. PIF only instant and sorcery. Would be pretty great in Delirum-self-mill strategies.
Or in Modern. Imagine Will in something like Affinity. Or Dredge. Ugh.
Also the one mana difference in cost is actually pretty relevant.
No. The card's not safe.
Simply Sarah
Member
Yeah, Will being able to play lands, cast permanent cards, and use alternate costs makes it a good bit more flexible than Past In Flames.
I'm purely talking about Standard, where you don't get alternate cost, where getting to "play" a land means you get to put a mana-producing land onto the battlefield in a format without fetchlands, and you can cast any creatures or the like that you can afford after spending the 3 mana on the spell, which means you get back 2 2drops if you are casting this with 7 mana. I'd obviously ban the card in Modern, but as a pure thought exercise, the card doesn't do anything broken in Standard except in the late late game, where it's power level would be on par with other 8+ mana cards, like Emrakul and Ulamog.
Again, it's still probably too good in standard, and specifically current standard, a graveyard-filling standard with no real hate to combat shenanigans. Imagine Turn 10, you pay three mana to take your hand from 4 cards to 25? Imagine the options that player would have. I'm having fits just thinking about playing Torrential Gearhulk from the graveyard. Sorry chum. That's too good.
How on earth are you going from 4 cards in hand to 25 cards in hand for 10 mana?
... really?
You don't literally have 25 cards in your hand. But if you have 4 and your graveyard has 21, and you play Yawgmoth's Will, it's basically the same damn thing.
Yagmoth's Will lets you cast cards for a single turn. You still need to pay the mana costs on those cards. How are you going to cast all the cards in your graveyard? You don't have rituals in Standard. If you are casting it with 10 lands out, you can only cast spells that combine to cost 7 or less. That is going to average 2-4 spells.
I am Error
Member
So I called the only LGS in my area that was scheduling the Kaladesh Showdown event and they told me that it has been canceled.
There goes my motivation to buy a standard deck.
There goes my motivation to buy a standard deck.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
I'd play Will on 4 just to get a forest back and play Grim Flayer or somethin, heck I'd play it to grapple with the past from the graveyard.
I know how Will works. Why are you focusing on the combo aspect of it? I am well aware of the lack of rituals in Standard and am in no way saying you could cast your entire 21 card graveyard. Maybe read my posts? You're missing my point. If you're at turn 10 and you and your opponent have both stalled out, or you're in an attrition-based battle, or maybe you just need that one answer to push through, Will probably opens up your options to a crazy amount of stuff. Yes, even if you cast your average of 2-4 spells off Will, it's likely enough to drastically tilt the game in that player's favor, or maybe even outright win it. And then games just become who draws Will and who doesn't, which is not what a Standard without graveyard hate needs.
Not to mention in Standard you would get to run 4x Yawgmoth's Will. Ba-roken.
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