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[Imperfected]

I wonder if they're going to have one of the Planeswalkers be big on Energy-related mechanics. I suppose not, due to generally wanting Planeswalkers to stay strong outside of their individual block, so probably just standard artifact interactions like the first one they revealed?

 

[SigmasonicX]

So, uh, maybe Tezzeret will be in this set after all

greenseeker4 asked: I'm a little bit confused, how many planeswalkers will be in kaladesh expansion?

Four.

Also, it's been pointed out that Lupine Prototype is an amazing driver.

 

[hermit7]

Despite the -3, Chandra does not defend herself well. I think the card's actually worse than it looks- a control deck wants no part of this.

Seems to be more aggro oriented I feel. If you have her be the curve topper you can plus her turn 4 and have a decent blocker to chump.

Then the following turns you can use her other +1 for card draw.

I kind of agree, but tons of people misjudged Lilianas power and she has shown herself to be quite good, so it will be interesting to see how she shakes out.

 

[Supast4r]

oh my god guyz it's cuz like, red's ally colors are black and green!

I will further blow your mind. Jace and Lili both really like each other but are at odds because both want to control the relationship. Similarly, blue and black have issues working together as colors because both want to control the opponent in different ways (black via discard/kill and blue via counter/bounce)

 

[Angry Grimace]

Despite the -3, Chandra does not defend herself well. I think the card's actually worse than it looks- a control deck wants no part of this.

She defends herself just fine unless you're trying to compare her to JTMS. There's just no card that will ever compare to JTMS because that card is busted in half.

 

[kirblar]

She defends herself just fine unless you're trying to compare her to JTMS.

There's just no card that will ever compare to JTMS because that card is busted in half.

If they have two critters and you don't have a removal spell you can + into, she's gonna die on the crackback.

That "Play Chandra, Lightning Strike" play is going to be super important.

 

[Supast4r]

She defends herself just fine unless you're trying to compare her to JTMS.

There's just no card that will ever compare to JTMS because that card is busted in half.

She isn't as versatile as people are making her out to be that's what he is getting at. She is very good and I'll be playing her in modern, but she isn't JTMS.

 

[Angry Grimace]

She isn't as versatile as people are making her out to be that's what he is getting at. She is very good and I'll be playing her in modern, but she isn't JTMS.

I don't think anyone is saying she's Jace, the Mind Sculptor, or even Liliana of the Veil or Elspeth, Knight-Errant.

But the power level is somewhere around Gideon, Ally of Zendikar, which would cost $30 if it weren't for Expeditions bloating the number of BFZ boxes that were opened. This is an extremely strong PW for Standard.

The weird thing is the "finally a good Chandra" thing despite Chandra, Flamecaller seeing lots of play and seeing lots of play right now.

 

[Supast4r]

If they have two critters and you don't have a removal spell you can + into, she's gonna die on the crackback.

That "Play Chandra, Lightning Strike" play is going to be super important.

This is literally every 3-4 drop planeswalker ever that doesn't poop out a token.

 

[Supast4r]

I don't think anyone is saying she's Jace, the Mind Sculptor, Liliana of the Veil or Elspeth, Knight-Errant.

But the power level is somewhere around Gideon, Ally of Zendikar, which would cost $30 if it weren't for Expeditions bloating the number of BFZ boxes that were opened. This is an extremely strong PW for Standard.

You clearly haven't read the internet today since people are making JTMS/LOTV proclamations. She is very good but she wants to be in a midrange deck with a decent amount of red spells.

 

[kirblar]

This is literally every 3-4 drop planeswalker ever that doesn't poop out a token.

No, it's not. She goes to 1 and dies to anything after minusing.

 

[Angry Grimace]

This is literally every 3-4 drop planeswalker ever that doesn't poop out a token.

It's a recurring (imo meaningless) argument people have made about literally every Planeswalker ever printed because its true about the Planeswalker card type in general because the rules let you attack into them.

If you do nothing on Turns 1-3 and then cast Elspeth, Knight-Errant, you probably will lose most of those games because you did nothing for 3 turns. The only PW where that statement isn't true is Jace, the Mind Sculptor, because Jace, the Mind Sculptor is busted beyond belief.

No, it's not. She goes to 1 and dies to anything after minusing.

Jace the Mind Sculptor goes to 2 in the same situation after using his minus 1 and they get also will get their guy back. And yes, I'm well aware that isn't a good argument against JTMS.

 

[Supast4r]

No, it's not. She goes to 1 and dies to anything after minusing.

Name a 3-4 drop planeswalker that ETB uses it's ability to protect itself and doesn't die on the crack back. None of them do what you want besides that ones that poop out tokens. LOTV goes to 1, Nahiri goes to 2, does that make them bad cards?

 

[Supast4r]

It's a recurring (imo meaningless) argument people have made about literally every Planeswalker ever printed because its true about the Planeswalker card type in general because the rules let you attack into them.

If you do nothing on Turns 1-3 and then cast Elspeth, Knight-Errant, you probably will lose most of those games because you did nothing for 3 turns. The only PW where that statement isn't true is Jace, the Mind Sculptor, because Jace, the Mind Sculptor is busted beyond belief.



Jace the Mind Sculptor goes to 2 in the same situation after using his minus 1 and they get also will get their guy back. And yes, I'm well aware that isn't a good argument against JTMS.

This isn't true either. Jace dies to a board of creatures if you don't cast spells.

 

["God's Beard!"]

I think Chandra is actually better than people are giving her credit for. Turn four worldbreakers is a possibility.

People are talking about lightning strike, but she also pairs extremely well with Fall of the Titans. Turn five drop chandra, fall of the titans to kill two creatures is the real deal.

 

[Ozigizo]

They had a contest for the big cards, and the green mythic went to a Card Kingdom guy.


Wizards really needs to stop colluding with them and give other LGS's a shot.

 

[kirblar]

Name a 3-4 drop planeswalker that ETB uses it's ability to protect itself and doesn't die on the crack back. None of them do what you want besides that ones that poop out tokens. LOTV goes to 1, Nahiri goes to 2, does that make them bad cards?

Liliana, The Last Hope.
Gideon, Ally of Zendikar

This isn't just about PWs in a vacuum, its about how critter heavy standard has gotten. Retaining a fat butt is important.

 

[Ashodin]

Wizards firmly believes attacking with creature > spells

So I can see red being re tooled as creature wipe and not face wipe.

It really sucks though

 

[SigmasonicX]

Why are people acting like red is only now getting spells that only hit creatures?

 

[Ozigizo]

Wizards firmly believes attacking with creature > spells

So I can see red being re tooled as creature wipe and not face wipe.

It really sucks though

Appears you now will have to span in to U/R or W/R to get face damage.


Does red even have a viable mono colored prowess? Once swiftspear rotated, mono burn died.

Why are people acting like red is only now getting spells that only hit creatures?

Because that only became true after Theros.

 

[SigmasonicX]

Because that only became true after Theros.

No, there were definitely red spells that hit only creatures before that. Some were notably reprinted in recent sets.

Here's one that I remember because it was in my starting collection (of cards a friend wasn't using):

 

[Imperfected]

This isn't just about PWs in a vacuum, its about how critter heavy standard has gotten. Retaining a fat butt is important.

This is the problem with all current Planeswalkers. Tiny, flat butts.

Bring back Karn.

 

[Ozigizo]

No, there were definitely red spells that hit only creatures before that. Some were notably reprinted in recent sets.

Here's one that I remember because it was in my starting collection (of cards a friend wasn't using):

Yes, but there were also alternatives that did hit face. Punishing Fire, for example, was in standard with Alara.

 

[Crocodile]

The vast majority of PWs don't handle themselves well in a vacuum if your opponent has more than one creature on the board. "Can this PW handle 2+ creatures by itself" has never been been the criteria we have used to judge if a PW passes the "can it defend itself?" test. I don't know why we are starting now. I don't think its unfair to say there are some/many situations where Gideon, Ally of Zendikar or Liliana, the Last Hope defend themselves better or match up better against specific creatures in Standard but I can pretty easily construct situations where new Chandra is advantaged as well. "Doesn't defend itself well" as a blanket statement seems objectionable. I'd rather discuss specific match-ups and creatures (though that's hard to do without the full Kaladesh spoiler out).

EDIT: Being able to defend yourself while gaining loyalty or staying neutral is a boon and important but that has never been a requirement for passing the "defends itself" test.

 

[charlequin]

The weird thing is the "finally a good Chandra" thing despite Chandra, Flamecaller seeing lots of play and seeing lots of play right now.

Everyone's forgotten red can be played in Standard after all this Bant Company.

So, uh, maybe Tezzeret will be in this set after all

Huh, that's weird. It can't be that this block is six total walkers again, but so in that case who's the one walker in AER? They're not gonna do just Nissa there.

Because that only became true after Theros.

um wut

 

[Ozigizo]

um wut

It's a 4 cost. I do not think we will see another shock or bolt. Right now, we have a 3 cmc bolt with a madness trigger, and that's as good as it gets.

Er, I think I was misunderstood. I'm talking about an effectively costed (1-2, probably 2) burn spell that hits face at instant speed. I never really saw shock as standard breaking.

 

[charlequin]

We had Lightning Strike in M15 and Wild Slash in FRF. I don't think this is quite as dire as people make it out to be. (It is certainly true that Sorcery-speed burn is more of a thing now, but this is hardly the first primarily-instant effect R&D has been trying to move into the main phase.)

 

[Angry Grimace]

um wut

I am baffled at how and why I am being quoted here.

 

[charlequin]

I am baffled at how and why I am being quoted here.

As am I!

 

[Ozigizo]

Don't worry guys, I figured it out!

We had Lightning Strike in M15 and Wild Slash in FRF. I don't think this is quite as dire as people make it out to be. (It is certainly true that Sorcery-speed burn is more of a thing now, but this is hardly the first primarily-instant effect R&D has been trying to move into the main phase.)

We did have Atarka's Command, but that was R/G. Part of me worries now that even a Helix effect might be considered too strong in the coming blocks.

 

[OnPoint]

Chandra is obviously strong. Yeah the last one was strong, too, but it was more of a standard card, I think. Will drop off hard at rotation. This will see some modern play.

That said, I'm surprised they didn't finally go the planeswalker team up on one card route here with Chandra and Liliana working so closely together in the story. It feels inevitable that they will at some point, and RB is pretty underrepresented in the planeswalker pool. I'm still curious on how they do it when/if they do.

 

[Firemind]

Despite the -3, Chandra does not defend herself well. I think the card's actually worse than it looks- a control deck wants no part of this.

Control decks want the other Chandra yah.

New Chandra has a place in Fevered Visions, one of the few decks that survives post rotation. All her abilities are relevant. Unlike Gideon though, she's pretty bad in multiples. If her minus was -2: bolt, she would have been spectacular. What even dies to 4 damage that a bolt couldn't kill?

 

[TheBlackMarvel]

Control decks want the other Chandra yah.

New Chandra has a place in Fevered Visions, one of the few decks that survives post rotation. All her abilities are relevant. Unlike Gideon though, she's pretty bad in multiples. If her minus was -2: bolt, she would have been spectacular. What even dies to 4 damage that a bolt couldn't kill?

Avacyn?

 

[Mega Spooky]

I run a FV deck, and I welcome the new Chandra

 

[HK-47]

Control decks want the other Chandra yah.

New Chandra has a place in Fevered Visions, one of the few decks that survives post rotation. All her abilities are relevant. Unlike Gideon though, she's pretty bad in multiples. If her minus was -2: bolt, she would have been spectacular. What even dies to 4 damage that a bolt couldn't kill?

Kalitas, Gryff, Avacyn, Thought Knot, Grim Flayer, Lambholt Butcher.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Chandra's minus isn't to protect herself that's just spot removal in a pinch, she protects herself by allowing you to 2 spell on turn 4.

We did have Atarka's Command, but that was R/G. Part of me worries now that even a Helix effect might be considered too strong in the coming blocks.

That already happened in RTR and we got this instead.

 

[G.ZZZ]

Card is pushed, but i'm not convinced it's even better than Koth. Yes Koth doesn't directly defend itself, but this chandra doesn't do that nicely either. Most played creature in non-standard have bigger than 4 butts, with delver exception, i guess. Koth gave you much more mana and a much faster clock if you needed them. This chandra seems more of a controllish card, but it doesn't do much on bad board states. Will surely see play in all non-eternal formats.

Also, "fast" red mana being essentially worse thran dynamos is so bad from a flavor standpoint. What about that is "fast" lol. Just give fast mana with restrictions if you're scared of combo accellerants.

EDIT: before people jump on me "it's playable in modern so better than koth" i'm talking about an eternal standpoint. Koth is arguably better in the only Legacy deck that would consider running this chandra, dragon stompy.

 

[Firemind]

Koth is also played in Modern Skred Red as a finisher.

Probably also better in cube.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

And we have our first public trying to kill a non-creature vehicle with sorcery-speed black removal.

Also,

EDIT: Jeez, he just wants to play normally, but they keep pushing to use a gimmick.

Late to the party, but holy fuck is this pushed for Limited. Ever since they started adding more uncommons to each set (thus reducing each individual uncommon's profile), they've really been pushing the boundaries.

 

[ironmang]

Man, WOTC really are some cheap fucks. Their budget is $800 for PT Kaladesh flights out of North America and I'd have to drive 4 hours just to find a flight that costs under that. Their travel agency couldn't book the $950 flight I asked for unless they hear back from WOTC who have been too busy with PAX to respond.

 

[MoxManiac]

Man. Was gonna build thermo-visions after rotation but new chandra is gonna be $$$$$$$$$$

 

[ElyrionX]

Man, WOTC really are some cheap fucks. Their budget is $800 for PT Kaladesh flights out of North America and I'd have to drive 4 hours just to find a flight that costs under that. Their travel agency couldn't book the $950 flight I asked for unless they hear back from WOTC who have been too busy with PAX to respond.

You qualified for PT? Congrats!

 

[Santiako]

ayyyy lmaooo

 

[Firemind]

Man. Was gonna build thermo-visions after rotation but new chandra is gonna be $$$$$$$$$$

You only need 2 maybe 3

 

[OnPoint]

ayyyy lmaooo

Good for him. No better way to show them up,

 

[ironmang]

You qualified for PT? Congrats!

Thanks . Ran really hot at a GP a few months ago.

I know I shouldn't complain but I found like the perfect flight with only 1 stop and short layovers only an hour drive away. Instead they're probably going to either make me pay the difference or drive to DC for the $797 flight with 2 stops and long layovers lol.

 

[phazedplasma]

Man. Was gonna build thermo-visions after rotation but new chandra is gonna be $$$$$$$$$$

I built it pre rotation :/

Was hoping for some good non 50$ cards for it this set.

 

[bigkrev]

I'm surprised that Chandra Pyrogenious has abilities directly comparable to the Mythic one, with the plus being strictly worse, and she costs 6.

 

[Santiako]

Oh look there's also Nissa.

(This is one of the precon cards, that's why it's so bad)

This one is the precon Chandra as well.

 

[Firemind]

rip nissa