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[Wulfric]

How about some kind of Evolution / Chord deck?
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/466044#paper

The one that I linked uses one Kiki. And I really like Eldritch Evolution.

I would think the most direct overlap is either Abzan Company or Kiki-Chord. Kiki-Chord doesn't really run enemy fetches; at the least you can get away without playing Arid Mesa and it can chord for Reclamation Sage against Blood Moon.

Thanks for the suggestions; I have a few Expedition shocks I wanted to cash in and those decks Company/Chord have plenty of cards I already own. SCG Open Milwaukee is coming up next month so I'll have a some time to playtest.

 

[SigmasonicX]

Wait, I realised magiccards.info is up to date again with EDM and C2, since when did that happen? At least the best Magic site is alive again.

Only happened a few days ago, actually.

 

[Supast4r]

By the way MaRo indirectly talks about Tinsman re: RoE and AVR, they did not see eye to eye on design. Very specifically on NWO, which MaRo blames for the set not selling well.

It's part of the reason BFZ being done by MaRo was such a mistake because he's so incredibly negative on RoE that he never understood what people actually liked about it.

Did he do eldrich moon too? That was another ROE set disguised as a innistrad set.

 

[charlequin]

He also fears that anything they do in Commander sets "precident" to people who send him a dozen tumblr/twitter posts each day.

Maro's "the eternal color pie is the same as the standard color pie" thing is infuriating and wrong, but at least unlike the ROE/Commander stuff it's not really that he misunderstands something, just that he makes a (IMO quite bad) judgment on what factors are more important.

Really think it's odd they introduced it as a Kozilek mechanic but made it evergreen. I get the why but not the how and it was a complete waste using it for so few cards.

Rosewater mentioned (and I agree with him 100% on this one) that they should have introduced it in BFZ, or even earlier, as the new symbol, then let the use in costs appear later. As it is it was just confusing and aesthetically displeasing.

In terms of how many cards they used it on, honestly 33 split across true colorless and devoid cards is actually a pretty aggressive and thorough usage (and certainly no one can say they didn't push the mechanic into constructed playability.) They'll assuredly do another set with colorless costs someday, but it really does need a lot of support if you have more than one or two rares in a set using it.

Did he do eldrich moon too? That was another ROE set disguised as a innistrad set.

EMN mostly plays off the good parts of ROE though (and the actual set mechanical design doesn't have much to do with ROE at all, past the level of "there are some large colorless creatures.") And anyway the problem with BFZ is that it tried to be ROE while actively fighting against everything that actually worked in that set.

 

[siddx]

quick question, what kind of mana symbol is this (seen it on a number of cards and it confuses me)

Gatherer says it's one generic mana, but those used to have a 1 symbol, no?

What that is is a stupid fucking decision by wizards to make mana more complicated when it didn't have to be.

 

[A Serious Man]

What that is is a stupid fucking decision by wizards to make mana more complicated when it didn't have to be.

It was odd at the time but in hindsight it really feels like a mistake to add a permanent layer of complexity to the game just for one set mechanic in one small set. To make it even worse, they specifically tied it to Kozilek and then killed him, so they're going to have to jump through hoops if they ever want to bring it back.

 

[Vangu Vegro]

For more about the colorless mana symbol (and why it needed to happen even if Kozilek and its ilk were never to be a thing), check out this.

It's important to know when a change feels weird because it isn't right versus because of inertia. This one fell heavily into the second camp.

Anyone who knows me knows that there aren't many changes Wizards have made that I wholeheartedly support, but this is one that I do without a second thought.

 

[Neoweee]

What that is is a stupid fucking decision by wizards to make mana more complicated when it didn't have to be.

It's less complex than the previous confusion between colorless mana and generic mana costs using the same symbol due to poor planning. Distinct symbols for distinct concepts > reusing icons.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Maro's "the eternal color pie is the same as the standard color pie" thing is infuriating and wrong, but at least unlike the ROE/Commander stuff it's not really that he misunderstands something, just that he makes a (IMO quite bad) judgment on what factors are more important.

MaRo should just keep his hands off it and let his underlings that actually play it handle it.

In terms of how many cards they used it on, honestly 33 split across true colorless and devoid cards is actually a pretty aggressive and thorough usage (and certainly no one can say they didn't push the mechanic into constructed playability.) They'll assuredly do another set with colorless costs someday, but it really does need a lot of support if you have more than one or two rares in a set using it.

I absolutely adore some of the colourless cards from the set, it's not so much that they were too few in OGW but like you said it should have been a mechanic throughout the whole block.
Warping Wail in particular is my favourite card in ages from a design perspective and I feel drastically undervalued across all formats. No one took them in a limited format that had a wrath at rare, more than enough targets for all modes and could always use more mana. The absolute worst case for the card was to use it eot to accelerate you by 1 the next turn.
I just wish there were more of them, the creatures I don't really care about. I think it's weird for Eldrazi to have ETB effects which I assume had to do with templating mostly.

It was odd at the time but in hindsight it really feels like a mistake to add a permanent layer of complexity to the game just for one set mechanic in one small set. To make it even worse, they specifically tied it to Kozilek and then killed him, so they're going to have to jump through hoops if they ever want to bring it back.

I agree, their explanation was that colourless mana actually added a layer of complexity by having to explain new players the difference between generic and colourless which I can't really argue against because it's been too long to remember whether that was a thing.
With the mechanic tied to Kozilek it's just so odd seeing his symbol in sets completely unrelated to him though.

 

[Giant Panda]

The only thing that was tied to Kozilek was including colorless only costs. The new symbol was entirely separate from Kozilek. The new symbol was a good change and I think it makes things clearer, so I'm surprised that many players still seem to have a hard time understanding it.

 

[charlequin]

It was odd at the time but in hindsight it really feels like a mistake to add a permanent layer of complexity to the game just for one set mechanic in one small set.

It's really, truly, genuinely simpler and more logical this way. It feels complicated because it's a change to 20 years of intuition, but if it had started out this way no one would have ever questioned it.

MaRo should just keep his hands off it and let his underlings that actually play it handle it.

In fairness, he mostly does and that's why we keep getting Chaos Warps and Songs of the Dryads in supplemental sets. He has a color pie council now but they're a council and reasonable people are in charge of colors like red so I don't think they're gonna be as bad as he would personally.

 

[Crocodile]

Hey! DRAFT THIS CUBE multiple times and give me feedback plz <3

There are flaws I've already seen and avenues I have in mind for improvement but more feedback is appreciated

Quoting myself from before. Again any feedback would be great.

Wow. I did not expect that ending.

I mean, once I realized the opponent has R & W open, I kind of saw it coming

I think that is a common sideboard card just to deal with Emrakul in Modern. Or at least I've heard of the tech before.

 

[red13th]

I didn't know people opposed the colourless mana symbol, I thought it was one of the best changes they've made recently. And FWIW except for a few rare instances like LG Mana Drain, colourless mana wasn't even represented by the generic mana symbol until after I stopped playing in Masques, it used to be fully spelled out like this:

 

[siddx]

The issue for me was not being able to use colored mana to cast something with the colorless symbol. That is what seemed an unnecessarily complication and like throwing a bag of dicks into the clockwork. I mean obviously it's not hard to figure out, I'm not going to pretend like it was some absurdly complicated mechanic. But I have always been on edge when it comes to mana in mtg and changes to it. I remember years and years ago when someone in our group spread a rumor that they were going to introduce purple mana and for a brief couple of minutes when we believed him, I was ready to firebomb everything.

Also to be fair, after a disastrous pre release where I opened complete junk while the dude across from opened an expedition land, I have up entirely on bfz and oath and didn't buy boosters or play it again until well into the summer. So I had to learn to use the mechanic on duels and it was extra awkward on that.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

The only thing that was tied to Kozilek was including colorless only costs. The new symbol was entirely separate from Kozilek. The new symbol was a good change and I think it makes things clearer, so I'm surprised that many players still seem to have a hard time understanding it.

that's the very same for all intents and purposes. It was introduced by Kozilek and the symbol will be tied to Kozilek for the foreseeable future. If they just wanted it evergreen and generic then it should have been added w/o cards seeking it.

The issue for me was not being able to use colored mana to cast something with the colorless symbol. That is what seemed an unnecessarily complication and like throwing a bag of dicks into the clockwork. I mean obviously it's not hard to figure out, I'm not going to pretend like it was some absurdly complicated mechanic. But I have always been on edge when it comes to mana in mtg and changes to it. I remember years and years ago when someone in our group spread a rumor that they were going to introduce purple mana and for a brief couple of minutes when we believed him, I was ready to firebomb everything.

Also to be fair, after a disastrous pre release where I opened complete junk while the dude across from opened an expedition land, I have up entirely on bfz and oath and didn't buy boosters or play it again until well into the summer. So I had to learn to use the mechanic on duels and it was extra awkward on that.

they intended to add purple with planar chaos

 

[Little Old Man]

that's the very same for all intents and purposes. It was introduced by Kozilek and the symbol will be tied to Kozilek for the foreseeable future. If they just wanted it evergreen and generic then it should have been added w/o cards seeking it.



they intended to add purple with planar chaos

Really? What aspects would purple have had? Would it have taken aspects from the other existing elements of the colour pie?

 

[Xis]

Really? What aspects would purple have had? Would it have taken aspects from the other existing elements of the colour pie?

It would have been between black and blue (because for allied color, they don't actually have many mechanics in common), and had some very powerful mechanic that they've never named because they might use it elsewhere. I believe that the basic land would have been caves, but I don't remember if that was official, or a fan theory.

 

[SigmasonicX]

Here's a 2007 article about purple mana. For reference, the "new card type" they talk about testing is Planeswalker.

 

[charlequin]

that's the very same for all intents and purposes. It was introduced by Kozilek and the symbol will be tied to Kozilek for the foreseeable future.

In three years there'll be new people starting to play who only know the colorless symbol and have never heard of Kozilek.

 

[HK-47]

In three years there'll be new people starting to play who only know the colorless symbol and have never heard of Kozilek.

Yeah, I dont think colorless mana is as tied to Kozilek as people around here seem to believe.

 

[FreedomFrisbee]

Colorless mana costs are probably as tied to Kozilek as colored artifacts are tied to Esper. It'll happen again in the future under different flavor circumstances.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Maro's "the eternal color pie is the same as the standard color pie" thing is infuriating and wrong, but at least unlike the ROE/Commander stuff it's not really that he misunderstands something, just that he makes a (IMO quite bad) judgment on what factors are more important.



Rosewater mentioned (and I agree with him 100% on this one) that they should have introduced it in BFZ, or even earlier, as the new symbol, then let the use in costs appear later. As it is it was just confusing and aesthetically displeasing.

In terms of how many cards they used it on, honestly 33 split across true colorless and devoid cards is actually a pretty aggressive and thorough usage (and certainly no one can say they didn't push the mechanic into constructed playability.) They'll assuredly do another set with colorless costs someday, but it really does need a lot of support if you have more than one or two rares in a set using it.



EMN mostly plays off the good parts of ROE though (and the actual set mechanical design doesn't have much to do with ROE at all, past the level of "there are some large colorless creatures.") And anyway the problem with BFZ is that it tried to be ROE while actively fighting against everything that actually worked in that set.

The problem with introducing it in BFZ is that it would have spoiled it happening.

Like there's no way people wouldn't have guessed colorless required Eldrazi were coming.

 

[red13th]

The problem with introducing it in BFZ is that it would have spoiled it happening.

Like there's no way people wouldn't have guessed colorless required Eldrazi were coming.

Maybe they should have started with Kozi then? idk, the way they did was really bad. BFZ was a mess

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

In three years there'll be new people starting to play who only know the colorless symbol and have never heard of Kozilek.

Hence I said for the foreseeable future. There'll be people who started with OGW and will always tie the two together.

Heck if you'd tell me to describe Borborygmos I'd tell you the crappy Ravnica version a card people forgot existed in competitive REL

 

[SigmasonicX]

People have suggested introducing <> in Magic Origins, which would have been the best option.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I got the giggles

 

[A Serious Man]

Completely broken and yet has the worst -2 ever.

 

[Santiako]

2 mana 6/9 seems balanced.

 

[Hero]

Kill another plainswalker though.

 

[Joe Molotov]

MTGCardsmith da GOAT.

 

[Violet_0]

I randomly logged into MTGO and played a few Commander games, and the mana acceleration and tutoring infinite or one-hit combos bullshit is still not fun. I fail to see how anyone can enjoy that

not to mention that the client can't really handle that mode

 

[El Topo]

Whoever it was that had posted his cube, just based on a few attempts, tribal draft feels a bit weird. I think it would be much better to do some test drafts with actual humans and play a few rounds to get a feel, but my first impression (without looking at the list) is that I'm not sure if the tribes themselves are balanced. It's a lot of fun though.

That said, the Tribal theme might be too restrictive.

2 mana 6/9 seems balanced.

Well, at least it's legen....oh.

 

[Matriox]

I randomly logged into MTGO and played a few Commander games, and the mana acceleration and tutoring infinite or one-hit combos bullshit is still not fun. I fail to see how anyone can enjoy that

Its all about finding a playgroup with similar things they want out of edh. Some are super spikey but most are casual from my experience. Never really gave it a thought on mtgo though, the interface with any additional players would probably give me a headache.

 

[Violet_0]

Its all about finding a playgroup with similar things they want out of edh. Some are super spikey but most are casual from my experience. Never really gave it a thought on mtgo though, the interface with any additional players would probably give me a headache.

I guess so
it's just, like, everyone brings their 5 color netdeck, has 20 mana sources on turn 3, a billion tutors to get their combo pieces and it's gg by turn 5
and sorry, that's just fucking stupid

if there was a mode that banned a lot of the old lands, mana artifacts, and a rather large number of the broken cards, it could maybe be moderately enjoyable

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

I randomly logged into MTGO and played a few Commander games, and the mana acceleration and tutoring infinite or one-hit combos bullshit is still not fun. I fail to see how anyone can enjoy that

not to mention that the client can't really handle that mode

Gotta make their life a living hell, play Zur and play all the hate.

 

[Santiako]

I guess so
it's just, like, everyone brings their 5 color netdeck, has 20 mana sources on turn 3, a billion tutors to get their combo pieces and it's gg by turn 5
and sorry, that's just fucking stupid

if there was a mode that banned a lot of the old lands, mana artifacts, and a rather large number of the broken cards, it could maybe be moderately enjoyable

Yeah, netdecking commander is so dumb. But people like to win all the time, even when there's nothing on the line.

 

[SigmasonicX]

Random thought, would this instant mana spell be good enough for Constructed without helping storm decks?

Generator Surge - 3R
Instant
You get EEEEE, then you may pay any amount of E. Add that much R to your mana pool.

 

[OnPoint]

I got the giggles

plainswalker

 

[Simply Sarah]

I got the giggles

I lost it. I am completely done.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Completely broken and yet has the worst -2 ever.

lol

 

[Genryu]

I got the giggles

Okay silly card aside, where is that artwork from? Is that how Tezzeret looks nowadays?

 

[Angry Grimace]

The flavor text is the best

 

[SigmasonicX]

Okay silly card aside, where is that artwork from? Is that how Tezzeret looks nowadays?

Yeah, that's art Wizards put online.

 

[Supast4r]

Maro's "the eternal color pie is the same as the standard color pie" thing is infuriating and wrong, but at least unlike the ROE/Commander stuff it's not really that he misunderstands something, just that he makes a (IMO quite bad) judgment on what factors are more important.



Rosewater mentioned (and I agree with him 100% on this one) that they should have introduced it in BFZ, or even earlier, as the new symbol, then let the use in costs appear later. As it is it was just confusing and aesthetically displeasing.

In terms of how many cards they used it on, honestly 33 split across true colorless and devoid cards is actually a pretty aggressive and thorough usage (and certainly no one can say they didn't push the mechanic into constructed playability.) They'll assuredly do another set with colorless costs someday, but it really does need a lot of support if you have more than one or two rares in a set using it.



EMN mostly plays off the good parts of ROE though (and the actual set mechanical design doesn't have much to do with ROE at all, past the level of "there are some large colorless creatures.") And anyway the problem with BFZ is that it tried to be ROE while actively fighting against everything that actually worked in that set.

Eh I liked eldrich moon but I hated the dumb mechanic that they gave werewolves in it. Did we really need monstrous to return and have it disguised as the eldrazi transform thing? Werewolves should have gotten more help imho.

 

[Supast4r]

Random thought, would this instant mana spell be good enough for Constructed without helping storm decks?

Generator Surge - 3R
Instant
You get EEEEE, then you may pay any amount of E. Add that much R to your mana pool.

Put it this way, has fast mana really ever been around to do something fair in magic?

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Eh I liked eldrich moon but I hated the dumb mechanic that they gave werewolves in it. Did we really need monstrous to return and have it disguised as the eldrazi transform thing? Werewolves should have gotten more help imho.

While I dislike the flavour of it, monstrous was exactly what werewolves needed, in limited. The lack of any rares or mythic tribal cards for Werewolves in Eldritch Moon is disappointing to say the least but it'll take multiple revisits more to Innistrad for them to come even close to being competitive in constructed formats.
Heck there wasn't even an Immerwolf type card innit.

 

[OnPoint]

Thanks for the suggestions; I have a few Expedition shocks I wanted to cash in and those decks Company/Chord have plenty of cards I already own. SCG Open Milwaukee is coming up next month so I'll have a some time to playtest.

Which expeditions do you have and what are you looking for?

 

[Matriox]

(?) Tool Shaper - W

Creature - Dwarf artificer

1/1

At the beginning of combat on your turn, if you control an artifact, ~ gets +2/+1 until end of turn. If you control three or more artifacts, ~gains first strike until end of turn.

 

[Santiako]

That dwarf seems quite strong for 1 mana.

 

[GoutPatrol]

Dwarf is cool and fits into an RW equipment/racer deck.