Yeah, I was reading those changes and wondering what the fuck they were thinking. Having the test video involve him opening 2 bulk rares and calling them "curated" made me almost fall out of my chair.
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Magic: the Gathering |OT9| Kaladesh - Cruisin' Down the Street in my 6/4
- Thread starter SigmasonicX
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Yeah, I was reading those changes and wondering what the fuck they were thinking. Having the test video involve him opening 2 bulk rares and calling them "curated" made me almost fall out of my chair.
They will transfer existing collections to the new platform, won't they?
If it was just stuff from the Curated list it'd probably be fine. When it's that, OR any rare from a modern set it's like what the hell.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
There is a 0% chance they would wipe out collections to move to a new platform.
Companies make terrible decisions all the time. we have no idea what form their new digital product will take. Maybe it won't support cards from the dawn of Magic. Perhaps to make the interface clean and elegant, they will make some change that makes some older cards unusable.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Boosters aren't opened in any capacity other than draft on MTGO.
That is not happening.
They can't compete with Hearthstone when they are charging $14 to draft when Hearthstone charges $2 or 3 days worth of normal F2P daily quests. The next MTGO needs to not be called MTGO, needs to eliminate "value" to collections (ie, get rid of redemption and trading), and needs to be moved away from the idea that a pack is worth the same IRL as it is online.
Otherwise, I have no idea why they are taking all these half-steps towards Hearthstone when the buisness models are so different. This isn't McDonalds trying to compete with 5 Guys and selling a $6 burger, this is McDonalds trying to sell $40 burgers made entirely out of Kobe Beef.
phazedplasma
Member
I love this deck, also they have blood soaked champ in there.
GregLombardi
Member
What the F
Chests in MTGO, only in constructed.
Have they never played a game that drops chests? You should have a random chance of getting them no matter what you are playing.
Also, this seems like a bad idea to me. They are further complicating the secondary (digital) market without any management of said market.
Chests in MTGO, only in constructed.
Have they never played a game that drops chests? You should have a random chance of getting them no matter what you are playing.
Also, this seems like a bad idea to me. They are further complicating the secondary (digital) market without any management of said market.
charlequin
Banned
I mean he can say that, but they're taking packs (which cost $4 fresh from WotC and typically have $2-3 of value in them, and can be traded or used for event entry) one-for-one with treasure chests (which can't be traded, can't be used to enter events, and have an EV of around $0.75 apiece.)
Redemption is the single most out-of-date idea on MTGO and it's fundamentally responsible for almost all the biggest economic problems with Magic Online today. They 100% will kill it with MDN and I'm guessing they're trying to wean people off by making it progressively shittier while we're still all on MTGO.
I don't think there's any reason to believe MDN is a straight-up Magic Online replacement rather than an attempt to build a new platform for digital MTG based on how things work in 2016 (or, less generously, 2012.) I find it far more likely that it doesn't treat "collections" the same way and doesn't carry over.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Why does MTGO cost 2 tickets on top of having 3 packs to enter a draft anyway? If online packs are supposedly worth 4 tickets and regular entry is 12. Just to punish people for chaining drafts?
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I don't think there's any basis for that, whatsoever. I have no idea why you're (apparently) assuming WOTC has a fundamental misunderstanding of why and how people play Magic: the Gathering. WOTC has made bad decisions with MTGO in the past, but none of them even come close to invalidating everyone's entire collection.
Here's the problem: MTGO isn't Hearthstone, no matter how often people constantly try to draw parallels. It's not the same thing and is based on a real-life paper game and has to work similarly.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Wizards will want it to be Hearthstone the game has millions and more millions of players and absolutely dwarves Magic in viewership.
Only if there's no trading.
They could just wipe it out then give them credit equal to their estimated value but eh
"God's Beard!"
Member
I haven't been all that excited by KLD limited to be honest. Out of half a dozen drafts or so it just hasn't been that fun. Vehicles and Fabricate don't play out as dynamically as I was hoping. It's not bad, I'm just feel bored playing it. SOI block had some cool stuff going on with deck diversity even if a lot of those things were on rails. I'm not expecting KTK, but I was hoping for something a little more free form this time around.
edit: I was watching these dudes play on cockatrice as the game was ending. One player concedes and says, "I only drew lands". I looked over at his library and he only had 13 cards left.
...
edit: I was watching these dudes play on cockatrice as the game was ending. One player concedes and says, "I only drew lands". I looked over at his library and he only had 13 cards left.
...
SigmasonicX
Member
Article reviewing the flavor of Kaladesh. It follows up on earlier points by others about the world not really being that Indian, and also points out that the Gatewatch story format follows a "white savior" trope.
Article comparing reprint art from Kaladesh with past versions, notable in that this is another person that thinks the new Diabolic Tutor art is great (ranking it above the older art).
Article comparing reprint art from Kaladesh with past versions, notable in that this is another person that thinks the new Diabolic Tutor art is great (ranking it above the older art).
If they want digital revenue bad enough, Wizards will change the paper game to improve/simplify the digital version.
They're never going to get close to Hearthstone. All this talk reminds me of SFV fans telling themselves that the game is going to get enormous any minute now. Don't chase a market you will never reach.
MTGO is not Hearthstone and it never will be, even if they fixed the insurmountable amount of issues.
MTGO is not Hearthstone and it never will be, even if they fixed the insurmountable amount of issues.
I guess the only solace I can get from these redemption changes is that it will depress singles prices on MTGO enough to make testing for standard cheap.
RIP redemption. I loved that I could redeem 4 sets of khans for little more than the price of playsets of all the fetch lands.
RIP redemption. I loved that I could redeem 4 sets of khans for little more than the price of playsets of all the fetch lands.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
They won't but they'll want to.
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";218523395]Why does MTGO cost 2 tickets on top of having 3 packs to enter a draft anyway? If online packs are supposedly worth 4 tickets and regular entry is 12. Just to punish people for chaining drafts?[/QUOTE]
Regular entry is 14 (4x3 + 2).
The 2 tix from each player is essentially the "pool money" that "purchases" the boosters that are used as prizes, even though 8x2 doesn't actually equal the retail ticket value of the total boosters available (since it's what... 12 boosters total in prizes?)
And yeah it's likely to stop people from chaining drafts. It makes it so that unless you play 8-4, literally 1st place is the only position that can re-enter a draft solely from winnings, and only if you play 8-4 or 6-2-2-2. If it wasn't there, Pack Per Win would see a lot more play considering it lessens the risk of winning nothing, while providing an opportunity for the winner to just roll another draft.
Now, as a person who LOVES Pack Per Win, because I'm not particularly good (so getting my 1-2 pitty prize is great), I would love for that to change. But knowing MTGO I get why it never will.
Also I've been out of the magic loop for so long wtf is MDN.
Regular entry is 14 (4x3 + 2).
The 2 tix from each player is essentially the "pool money" that "purchases" the boosters that are used as prizes, even though 8x2 doesn't actually equal the retail ticket value of the total boosters available (since it's what... 12 boosters total in prizes?)
And yeah it's likely to stop people from chaining drafts. It makes it so that unless you play 8-4, literally 1st place is the only position that can re-enter a draft solely from winnings, and only if you play 8-4 or 6-2-2-2. If it wasn't there, Pack Per Win would see a lot more play considering it lessens the risk of winning nothing, while providing an opportunity for the winner to just roll another draft.
Now, as a person who LOVES Pack Per Win, because I'm not particularly good (so getting my 1-2 pitty prize is great), I would love for that to change. But knowing MTGO I get why it never will.
Also I've been out of the magic loop for so long wtf is MDN.
charlequin
Banned
I think the Hasbro puppetmasters driving MDN think that Magic's digital offering should be something for a broad range of players to participate in and streamers to showcase rather than something for addicts and grinders; I don't think they're entirely wrong, and if they were successful in building that their userbase would be a lot bigger than today's MODO anyway.
Well no, in the sense that they had a terrible digital offering when HS came out and therefore missed the extremely easy opportunity to be a first-mover in the market; but they could still be a business where the digital business is growing and heavily promoted, and is a much larger revenue driver than paper.
Magic Digital Next. WotC themselves are playing dumb about it, but Hasbro has explicitly told their shareholders that they have a completely separate team working on a brand-new version of online Magic that will replace both MTGO and Duels.
So what you're saying is, getting back into MTGO right now is probably not the smartest idea huh.
It could be years until it releases for all we know.
GregLombardi
Member
I knew this deck was good but DAMN. Wouldn't have thought it would go 9-0 in friendly sealed.
Woot!
Sure. They could do much, much better.
This is why Odyssey block stories and stuff were better when it was all about the planebound people instead of planeswalker this planeswalker that
Planeswalkers were always these aloof figures in the story that could be deus ex machinas or the instigator of a lot of really bad shit
When Mirrodin was all about Glissa and Slobad and Bosh trekking across the plane to figure out what was going on it was the best.
THE BEST
I think MDN will be the public digital face of the game once it launches. Expect a HUGE push from Hasbro/WOTC when it's ready (digital tie ins on cards inserted into packs ala Pokemon TCG, etc). A relaunch is exactly what they need to fix their flagging online presence.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I mean, its not even an announced product. There's even less evidence of what it is than Blizzard's famed "Project Titan" (which turned out to be vaporware). There's also the fact that owning cards and collections is a fundamental part of Magic the Gathering (and is, in fact, why MTG is still popular after 20+ years), and it makes no sense to try to make another product that doesn't mirror the paper game experience (since Duels already does that).
The project is either MTGO V.5 or its something that's more likely to replace Duels than MTGO. I simply don't see a basis for the claim they will cancel MTGO. It's akin to WOTC saying, "Okay, for Amonkhet, we decided to change the card backs."
There's no evidence to suggest either of those.
TheBlackMarvel
Member
I agree with this tbh.
It'd be really weird not to replace MTGO, imo. We already have a case where Duels is much slicker and user friendly compared to creaky old MTGO. Having MTGO be the "end goal" for players to migrate to after Duels and MDN seems silly to me.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
That doesn't make any sense. The project you guys are envisioning is just MTGO v.5 and/or MTGO-2. There's no *actual* reason being given why this alleged project involves deleting everyone's collections and it makes no sense from a practical or logical perspective.
It makes even less sense from the perspective of a company that maintains the Reserved List in spite of the vast majority of the paying players not liking it.
Well, I assume they'd do some type of collection migration to the new product if they did replace MTGO.
I re-read thing description by the new CEO and it does sort of sound like this is an all-encompassing replacement. Who knows, though.
For reference, here's the quote. It certainly implies that there would be one product that caters to everyone:
"Right now we have digital offerings at both ends of the knowledge and engagement spectrum. Magic Online is for the highest level players and we have Duels as an entry experience. The greatest opportunity for Magic is to create a new digital experience leveraging contemporary technology to create a seamless digital experience that meets all the players needs from new players to pro players. This is what we are investing in and we have a team in place to deliver the first new Magic Digital Next product in the next few years."
Integrating into one product implies something will get axed, whether is be Duels, or MTGO, or both.
Of course, vague future plans often go nowhwere.
SigmasonicX
Member
I imagine that Magic Digital Next will be the "Modern" to Magic Online's "Legacy". That is to say, Magic Digital Next will make a "fresh" start by excluding a lot of older cards (potentially just straight up using Modern), with older cards filtering in through special releases. They'll continue to support Magic Online, and it will be the best place to play Legacy and Pauper and the like, but new players will be directed to MDN.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
This...is entirely accurate
at least with regards to the Gatewatch's involvement. All of the interesting stuff in SOI was with Sorin and Nahiri. Chandra and Nissa (and to an extent Liliana) could carry the Kaladesh story by themselves without this needing to be a "clash of the Gatewatch against X"
at least with regards to the Gatewatch's involvement. All of the interesting stuff in SOI was with Sorin and Nahiri. Chandra and Nissa (and to an extent Liliana) could carry the Kaladesh story by themselves without this needing to be a "clash of the Gatewatch against X"
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
In that case its just MTGO version 5.
Nissa having no understanding of feelings is virtually nonsensical, even given her heavily retconned background.
The problem is that going from "we want to integrate Duels and MTGO into a single digital offering" to "new product that will delete your MTGO collection" is a HUGE leap of logic.
CommandThrower
Member
That giant Tezzeret statue makes me laugh. "I wonder who's behind the scenes here."
charlequin
Banned
The slide they used to illustrate this specifically showed how MTGO and Duels each target a different market, while MDN is supposed to encompass both:
No, it's just a major, expensive initiative that a publicly-traded company promised to their shareholders. Maybe it works out, maybe it doesn't, but it's a lot more real than something never formally announced that just leaked out in rumor. Their plan, 100%, is to kill MTGO and replace it.
The reason I'm saying collections probably won't carry over, BTW, is that MTGO's business model is really bad and Hasbro are almost certainly going to see a new product as an opportunity to fix that. Even if we include most of the core MTGO features (full card sets, draft formats, precise rules mirroring, etc.) having a product whose pricing is fundamentally based on the (almost never used) paper MSRP and which has a mechanism for passing value back and forth is an awful idea. If they launch this new thing with $2 packs and daily gold and more aggressive use of Phantom events and all the other stuff you can do to get a bigger audience when you're not anchored down by redemption, the value and purpose of collections aren't going to match up and they might not even cover every card to begin with.
That said, maybe they launch and they have some kind of partial or full conversion process to keep people happy, I dunno.
I've always been assuming that that whole initiative is based on "we want that Hearthstone money". They have to know that they aren't going to make that happen with packs and events that cost the same as the events in paper. They need free to play elements and cheaper events to bring less enfranchised players in. They'll have to really mess with the economy and remove redemption to make that happen. So if replacing current MTGO is part of this project's goal, it's going to either destroy the value of collections or reset entirely.
They will have to change a lot of things to make it work internationally anyway. As it is, MTGO is very US-centric.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
The slide they used to illustrate this specifically showed how MTGO and Duels each target a different market, while MDN is supposed to encompass both:
No, it's just a major, expensive initiative that a publicly-traded company promised to their shareholders. Maybe it works out, maybe it doesn't, but it's a lot more real than something never formally announced that just leaked out in rumor. Their plan, 100%, is to kill MTGO and replace it.
The reason I'm saying collections probably won't carry over, BTW, is that MTGO's business model is really bad and Hasbro are almost certainly going to see a new product as an opportunity to fix that. Even if we include most of the core MTGO features (full card sets, draft formats, precise rules mirroring, etc.) having a product whose pricing is fundamentally based on the (almost never used) paper MSRP and which has a mechanism for passing value back and forth is an awful idea. If they launch this new thing with $2 packs and daily gold and more aggressive use of Phantom events and all the other stuff you can do to get a bigger audience when you're not anchored down by redemption, the value and purpose of collections aren't going to match up and they might not even cover every card to begin with.
That said, maybe they launch and they have some kind of partial or full conversion process to keep people happy, I dunno.
So was Project Titan and Activision isn't any less publically traded.
I'm not trying to harp on you specifically, I just think your reasoning makes no logical or practical sense beyond "WOTC is bad at stuff." There's no reason for WOTC to do that anymore than there is a reason for Blizzard to cancel WoW and tell everyone to join WoW-2 in which nothing carries over. The idea you are talking about would represent a fundamental misunderstanding of how and why Magic is still popular 20 years after it was made. Whether the project is MTGO 2 (in which Duels is or isn't integrated) or simply a new client, there's simply no rhyme or reason why they would introduce a new top-line competitive product and then tell everyone to eat shit and like it. That isn't calculated to make anyone money.
I feel like every single argument from fans saying they know what's best for WOTC and Hasbro starts with "...but Hearthstone." Argumentum ad Hearthstone just doesn't work - MTG isn't Hearthstone. Trying to convert a version of MTG that is on parity with the paper game while utilizing a Hearthstone model doesn't make a lick of sense. It's like trying look left and right at the same time.
It's not just about Hearthstone Money, it's also about this:
You can't see it, but Hearthstone has 57k viewers whilst Magic has about 5k. And this is just me on a vertical monitor setup, you can't even see it on a regular monitor.
It infuriates the fuck out of Hasbro's digital and marketing groups because Blizzard games have such a personality and "fun" quotient that they can't seem to encompass.
The move to planeswalker focus is to allow a set group of people get known over the years and become favorites and people to ship them (as shipping indicates investiture into the product) and who knows what else.
This will tie into the Digital Product where they will launch Next with a huge focus on streaming and more wacky gameplay (think Momir Basic + other formats). They most likely will launch the client with Twitch streaming built in.
divisionbyzorro
Member
Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought that Overwatch was born from the leftovers of Project Titan?
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