SweetJohnnyCage
Member
That's what I had always done since I was a kid, but it takes a bunch of hits to kill, and you have Blue Bubbles all around you that by the time you kill 4, you'd still be shooting the damn bird.
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Majora's Mask 3D |OT| Remakes are a Nice Thing to Have Heh, heh
- Thread starter Kriken
- Start date
That's what I had always done since I was a kid, but it takes a bunch of hits to kill, and you have Blue Bubbles all around you that by the time you kill 4, you'd still be shooting the damn bird.
So basically ALBW is more of a remake of ALTTP then ;P. But you know what I meant lol
SirNinja
Member
Love fishing while the world is about to end. I think I was down to about 30 seconds that time fighting with the fish haha.
That shot reminds me...it's strange that MM3D's sky doesn't change any during the final two hours, like it does on the other two days (and in the last two hours of the original). At 6 AM when the moon crashes, it's still the same starry sky it was at midnight.
And it's not like they forgot about it, either. The announcement trailer showed the moon crash with a bright purple/pink sky with a fiery horizon:
What gives? Why'd they keep the sky the exact same from the beginning of the countdown to the end? I know the blood-red sky is cool and all (and admittedly, it makes
the scenes that open the final portion of the game
While I'm on the subject, the final day's sky is way too serene. In the original, we got an ominous green sky that perfectly complimented the feeling that something really bad was going to happen. In MM3D, the distance fog is still green, but the sky this time is mostly blue, with a green horizon and a little purple towards the top.
Call me crazy, but that scene at the right still looks like a pretty fun day at the beach, menacing moon and all. Even weirder, that sky gets reused for the scene where
the moon is destroyed after Majora's defeat
I know it sounds nitpicky, but these changes really affect the atmosphere of a game that's famous for having an incredibly memorable one.
heh yeah, it could be considered that...if not for the callbacks to LTTP in the story (ganon, imprisoning war) and this:
Triforce of the Gods 2 - literally A Link to the Past 2. I still think they should have gone with that title in the west.
JeTmAn81
Member
Yes, it's sad that almost all the good you do resets. It reminds me heavily of this excellent scifi-ish book I just read about a guy who lives through the same time period over and over:
AzureTranquility95
Banned
You bet your sweet ass they do.
It's actually surprising how many people you can take care of before the night of the final day. I think you really only lose out on the bomb lady. Since defeating each boss handles most of the problems pertaining to each compass direction (Other than I guess the frogs and Deku Princess... but like hell you're gonna do the don gero quest twice with nos econd reward).
Bah, changes like these make me sad.
SirNinja
Member
heh yeah, it could be considered that...if not for the callbacks to LTTP in the story (ganon, imprisoning war) and this:
Triforce of the Gods 2 - literally A Link to the Past 2. I still think they should have gone with that title in the west.
Eh, I like the "A Link _______" format more. It basically tells you it's ALLTP2 without overtly saying it.
Now, that non-gold cover on the other hand...I definitely wish we'd gotten that. Not that I'm bitter about it or anything. >_>
HitCtrlAltDel
Member
I think the same way...
I try to do as much as possible per cycle just to avoid making more Termina's.
Tathanen
Get Inside Her!
I'm shocked that we got a non-gold cover for MM3D after ALBW and OOT3D.
Yes, it's sad that almost all the good you do resets. It reminds me heavily of this excellent scifi-ish book I just read about a guy who lives through the same time period over and over:
That premise wow. I'll check it out thanks!
Yeah that's what I always assumed,
judging from the cutscenes involving Anju/Kafei getting married, the Indigo-Gos playing, the Deku Kingdom freeing the monkey, the bomb lady being "okay," and Romania's lively attitude.
dampflokfreund
Banned
That shot reminds me...it's strange that MM3D's sky doesn't change any during the final two hours, like it does on the other two days (and in the last two hours of the original). At 6 AM when the moon crashes, it's still the same starry sky it was at midnight.
And it's not like they forgot about it, either. The announcement trailer showed the moon crash with a bright purple/pink sky with a fiery horizon:
What gives? Why'd they keep the sky the exact same from the beginning of the countdown to the end? I know the blood-red sky is cool and all (and admittedly, it makesthat much more intense), but just because the moon's crashing down doesn't mean the sun can't still come up while it happens...the scenes that open the final portion of the game
While I'm on the subject, the final day's sky is way too serene. In the original, we got an ominous green sky that perfectly complimented the feeling that something really bad was going to happen. In MM3D, the distance fog is still green, but the sky this time is mostly blue, with a green horizon and a little purple towards the top.
Call me crazy, but that scene at the right still looks like a pretty fun day at the beach, menacing moon and all. Even weirder, that sky gets reused for the scene where, which makes no sense as the sky immediately goes back to a clear blue for the scenes afterward.the moon is destroyed after Majora's defeat
I know it sounds nitpicky, but these changes really affect the atmosphere of a game that's famous for having an incredibly memorable one.
I think the new sky and lighting fits the game and its atmosphere so much better than the old one. It's not comparable really. How anyone can nitpick on the sky is absolutely beyond me.
yep
I'm pretty much a die hard MM fan and have been ever since it was first announced as Zelda: Gaiden. And I was worried about all the changes. But hell, they all work. The game is better than it ever was before.
Anyhow..right....heh, lets give this a try. This is a competition I won back in 2001 in N64 Magazine. They had a feature each month where you had to create new challenges for games and the best one would win an Action Replay Pro. I fucking loved that thing when I got it - goldeneye was made even better than before! Multiplayer was great!
anyway, my entry was this:
anyone want to give it a try? (it probably fucking sucks, I haven't tried doing my challenge for 14 years)
SirNinja
Member
When it's changed as much as it has, it's an absolutely valid complaint. The differences are like night and day. And I mean that quite literally, in the case of the moon crash scene - it's still nighttime at 6 AM!
Professor Beef
Banned
Uuuuuuuuuuugh, so mad right now. I make it to Sakon's place as it hits night, and he's apparently already running to his rock just past the loading zone, so I run into his FOV and he retreats.
Now I get to do Great Bay again, because I didn't have time for the jump mini game after this cycle. Yaaaaay. =|
Now I get to do Great Bay again, because I didn't have time for the jump mini game after this cycle. Yaaaaay. =|
I'd also consider myself a pretty die hard MM fan and I've gotta disagree with you on the changes working in all cases. I think most were unnecessary, and in the worst cases they actually change or detract from the atmosphere I loved from the original.
It's disappointing to a lot of fans like myself. I liked how all the little details from the first game came together to create the world, and changes like this that seem tiny to you really screw with my overall experience with the game. Changes to color really bother me in general, and it seems like a lot of developers just don't understand that those kinds of things were really major in forming how some people felt about a game's world. I remember the palette changes in KH1.5 really bothering me as well.
YianGaruga
Banned
So far every boss was pretty easy and had an obvious and fast strategy but I had some trouble with
Twinmold
It probably took me 15 minutes to beat it. The blue one was easy, but the red one took ages and I'm still not sure what exactly I was supposed to do. There were two rocks and throwing one of them at him exposed his weak spot, but once those were gone I just startet hitting him, which.. didn't really seem to do anything? After some random amount of hits he exposed his weak spot again, but it felt like I was missing something. Like I was waiting for the rocks to respawn but they didn't. First time the game made me feel really stupid. What exactly is the strategy for the red one?
YianGaruga
Banned
But it takes so long and he doesn't really react to it at all.. If that's really it then it's a really shitty and disappointing boss.
well, yeah. but what you gonna do
never got to be hulk smash link in the original, so thats a plus
Well, I did what I said I was going to do and I finally started this game back up on my Majora's Mask XL and man it feels soooo much more comfortable than the OG. The screen size also doesn't really seem to stretch the game as much as I thought it might -- definitely no reason to go back to the OG.
Anyway so today I went ahead and tried to meet as many people as I could to have them logged into my Notebook (the ones you can get without beating Woodfall Temple or Snowhead). I did a lot more than I expected to, honestly, in the one cycle I played this afternoon. Not only did I manage to fit in getting the Big Bomb Bag but I also got some masks I wasn't planning on getting in this cycle lol.
I also got some Heart Pieces and to cap off everything I opened up Woodfall Temple before I reset the cycle. Saved and then stopped for now.
This game is sooo good, felt so amazing to manage all that time and do everything I wanted to do in a single cycle -- even if some of it was dilly dallying between talking to people in Clock Town.
Anyway so today I went ahead and tried to meet as many people as I could to have them logged into my Notebook (the ones you can get without beating Woodfall Temple or Snowhead). I did a lot more than I expected to, honestly, in the one cycle I played this afternoon. Not only did I manage to fit in getting the Big Bomb Bag but I also got some masks I wasn't planning on getting in this cycle lol.
I also got some Heart Pieces and to cap off everything I opened up Woodfall Temple before I reset the cycle. Saved and then stopped for now.
This game is sooo good, felt so amazing to manage all that time and do everything I wanted to do in a single cycle -- even if some of it was dilly dallying between talking to people in Clock Town.
Tathanen
Get Inside Her!
Well yeah, it's "different." But in this case, it feels kind of appropriate that in the last minutes of this highly paranormal phenomenon, the sky is suffused with magical evils, such that the light of the sun cannot penetrate it. Think of a volcanic eruption, no manner of sunlight will be penetrating that cloud of ash. Some sunlight peeking in at the last second before Termina is turned into ash honestly feels a bit weird to me.
Yep. Alternatively, the sky may be blood-run during the final hours now because the heat from the moon descending through the atmosphere is igniting the sky. I like that "suffused with evil magic" theory, though.
Either way, the new sky is much more dramatic now. This change is good.
Man, this game is even better now that I can understand the full extent of character dialogue and their emotions. I mean, I understood the general mood when I was younger and it engaged me, but there's intricacies that only now am I properly grasping.
And I rememeber far less than I thought I would.. In terms of getting masks and completing quests and such.
In regards to the colours, on the whole it looks better now. But there are definitely moments where the original was better. I guess you just have to take the good with the bad. Thankfully it's mostly good.
Also, does anybody else feel bad slowing the speed of time? Almost feels like cheating. I never used to have this feeling. Is there a general consensus of when and when not to adjust the flow of time?
And I rememeber far less than I thought I would.. In terms of getting masks and completing quests and such.
In regards to the colours, on the whole it looks better now. But there are definitely moments where the original was better. I guess you just have to take the good with the bad. Thankfully it's mostly good.
Also, does anybody else feel bad slowing the speed of time? Almost feels like cheating. I never used to have this feeling. Is there a general consensus of when and when not to adjust the flow of time?
Slow time whilst doing dungeons to give you sufficient time to finish it, get all the stray fairies and finish the extra sidequest after (deku butler, gilded sword, etc).
For other times, you will do fine without it slowed. I would recommend slowing time for everything leading up to great bay temple though (pirates fortress, pinnacle rock, zora egg hunt). That quest is brutal on the clock if you haven't slowed down time.
YianGaruga
Banned
I do it immediately after starting from the first day.. because why not? There doesn't seem to be a reason not to and I have no problem filling all the time with activities and quests.
I feel like that slow time should have been normal and the song should have sped up time instead.
Well no, because all the NPCs would walk at half their speed. Having the clock run at normal is preferable in all areas apart from the dungeons and zora egg quest - the reason being is that the character schedules and movement between areas is designed for it, not the slowed down speed.
That Anju quest would be agonizing entirely in slowed down time, even with the song of double time being utilized.
But of course, I guess your comment implies that the games development and design should have been based on the slower time...but then, that would change the entire basis of the three day cycle. And then the faster song would be rendered absolutely pointless because the song of double time exists.
YianGaruga
Banned
As I said, I haven't had a single problem with it so far and I'm playing it blind for the first time. I'm trying to do different quests in parallel and never felt that anything was too slow.
It may not be perfect for everyone but so far it fits perfectly with my playstyle. I only very rarely go back to normal time.
So I had my doubts before I played this on being the definitive version of MM3D, but after actually playing it, I think it definitely is.
Many of the changes are to make it more accessible, and I honestly feel like they don't ruin the tone of the game at all for me. If anything they make it less frustrating to new players, and they can still experience everything we did with the original back in the day. A few of the top things that were complained about and how I address them:
1. Zora Swimming - As weird as it is, this change is for the better. It was frustrating in small, or bad camera angel spaces to just go from 0 to 50 in no time flat and then crash into a wall. Having the slower swimming is much better as it allows more control. It also makes the beaver race less frustrating, as you can always slow down if you have to to precisely get in the rings. A thing people always neglect to mention though is that you can still do this little boost that is the same speed as the original when you are out of magic. This can be repeated, giving you still the fast speed if you were in some desperate situation where you are out of magic.
2. Song of Double Time: I don't think this one as a bad one, generally you are only skipping a few hours (real life minutes) at a time, because lets be honest, standing around hoping not to miss something sucks. It does, there's no two ways about it. People make the argument that you could just go do something else while you wait, but depending on what you are waiting for, you have to factor in getting to the other place, doing whatever thing it is, and getting back to where you need to be so you don't miss your event. However, this is offset a little bit by the Inverted Song of Time change not being as effective as it used to be in the original.
3. New Bombers notebook: Another fine addition. The notebook in the original wasn't too painfully useful, as MANY of the critical events went unmarked in the notebook. A lot of the smaller things are marked now, which isn't too big of a deal. If you really think you need the help, you can even talk to the Bombers for hints on stuff. All this really does is make the more obtuse objectives less obtuse, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. An example for instance, the lottery game. Obviously in the original, you could exploit this if you remembered the number for each day, and on subsequent cycles come back with the same number and win more prizes. Now in the original, you may have a notebook of these things somewhere, and if you were to put the game down for a while, you may lose track of these things. The new Bombers Notebook keeps track of this much better.
All in all I do think this is now the definitive version, especially with the updated visuals and most importantly the framerate. As with OoT3D, the framerate is easily the biggest improvement in the game. I can honestly never go back to the N64 20FPS and lower framerates after playing the 3DS games.
Many of the changes are to make it more accessible, and I honestly feel like they don't ruin the tone of the game at all for me. If anything they make it less frustrating to new players, and they can still experience everything we did with the original back in the day. A few of the top things that were complained about and how I address them:
1. Zora Swimming - As weird as it is, this change is for the better. It was frustrating in small, or bad camera angel spaces to just go from 0 to 50 in no time flat and then crash into a wall. Having the slower swimming is much better as it allows more control. It also makes the beaver race less frustrating, as you can always slow down if you have to to precisely get in the rings. A thing people always neglect to mention though is that you can still do this little boost that is the same speed as the original when you are out of magic. This can be repeated, giving you still the fast speed if you were in some desperate situation where you are out of magic.
2. Song of Double Time: I don't think this one as a bad one, generally you are only skipping a few hours (real life minutes) at a time, because lets be honest, standing around hoping not to miss something sucks. It does, there's no two ways about it. People make the argument that you could just go do something else while you wait, but depending on what you are waiting for, you have to factor in getting to the other place, doing whatever thing it is, and getting back to where you need to be so you don't miss your event. However, this is offset a little bit by the Inverted Song of Time change not being as effective as it used to be in the original.
3. New Bombers notebook: Another fine addition. The notebook in the original wasn't too painfully useful, as MANY of the critical events went unmarked in the notebook. A lot of the smaller things are marked now, which isn't too big of a deal. If you really think you need the help, you can even talk to the Bombers for hints on stuff. All this really does is make the more obtuse objectives less obtuse, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. An example for instance, the lottery game. Obviously in the original, you could exploit this if you remembered the number for each day, and on subsequent cycles come back with the same number and win more prizes. Now in the original, you may have a notebook of these things somewhere, and if you were to put the game down for a while, you may lose track of these things. The new Bombers Notebook keeps track of this much better.
All in all I do think this is now the definitive version, especially with the updated visuals and most importantly the framerate. As with OoT3D, the framerate is easily the biggest improvement in the game. I can honestly never go back to the N64 20FPS and lower framerates after playing the 3DS games.
Tathanen
Get Inside Her!
The Inverted Song of Time only slows time down about two times as much in MM3D, while the original slowed it down three times as much.
People are saying its now only giving you two hours per cycle.
I say bullshit. I played MM from the dawn of the first day til five minutes before apocalypse all in slowed time, and my 3DS play log gave me three hours for that session. Same as with the N64 version.
I will test it again if needed.
MAX PAYMENT
Member
Is it just me or is the snow dungeon a confusing mess on party with OoT water temple?
on how the games compare for me, I'm torn. I don't feel like either one is "definitive" so again it's left in a situation like Mario 64 or Persona 3 where to get the full experience you have to play 2 versions.
- The overall look is generally better. If i had to point out things that were worse, I actually preferred Link's old model and the Moon's old model. There is also the corridor right before entering clock town that looks worse IMO, but these are all generally minor points.
- The framerate. On the whole a lot better, but there are a surprising amount of drops which kind of irks me.
- Twinmold Boss battle. So much better, thankfully....But I know I'm pretty alone in saying that all 3 other battles are made worse. With Goht and Odolwa, it's not a huge difference, just that the eye breaks the flow of the battle for me, but George is just...he's so much worse in my eyes.
- The double song of time and bombers notebook, as well as the rumours you get make the game a smoother experience. In contrast, the new save system is still bad IMO. It's not as annoying as I thought it would be, but it's still a negative.
- The Goron, Zora and Deku masks all had negative changes, While relatively minor with the Goron and Deku, the Zora change is stupid. Speaking of Zora changes, the Ice arrow change is also dumb.
- The timings and such are nicer in this game. Which is a good thing. Like at one point you're told to meet a character at 11.30 and you meet them at 11.30! In the original they would show up at like 12.15.
There are a whole bunch of other minor points for and against like uh, the fairy mask particles being way too small in this game and the new location for Shiro being less ideal IMO. The fishing spots are...well they're pointless unless I'm misunderstanding them. Can you get anything from them? Nice that they're there but unless they give you shit I'm not really interested.
So yeah...overall I'm really torn, both have merits.
I timed it after I heard it was quicker yesterday. It is quicker.
- The overall look is generally better. If i had to point out things that were worse, I actually preferred Link's old model and the Moon's old model. There is also the corridor right before entering clock town that looks worse IMO, but these are all generally minor points.
- The framerate. On the whole a lot better, but there are a surprising amount of drops which kind of irks me.
- Twinmold Boss battle. So much better, thankfully....But I know I'm pretty alone in saying that all 3 other battles are made worse. With Goht and Odolwa, it's not a huge difference, just that the eye breaks the flow of the battle for me, but George is just...he's so much worse in my eyes.
- The double song of time and bombers notebook, as well as the rumours you get make the game a smoother experience. In contrast, the new save system is still bad IMO. It's not as annoying as I thought it would be, but it's still a negative.
- The Goron, Zora and Deku masks all had negative changes, While relatively minor with the Goron and Deku, the Zora change is stupid. Speaking of Zora changes, the Ice arrow change is also dumb.
- The timings and such are nicer in this game. Which is a good thing. Like at one point you're told to meet a character at 11.30 and you meet them at 11.30! In the original they would show up at like 12.15.
There are a whole bunch of other minor points for and against like uh, the fairy mask particles being way too small in this game and the new location for Shiro being less ideal IMO. The fishing spots are...well they're pointless unless I'm misunderstanding them. Can you get anything from them? Nice that they're there but unless they give you shit I'm not really interested.
So yeah...overall I'm really torn, both have merits.
I timed it after I heard it was quicker yesterday. It is quicker.
Nope. Its logical in design, funnels you right to where you need to be and as soon as you get the fire arrows you are given a new route that takes you right to the top.
Edit: fucking lol at the post above amongst others who fell victim to Gyrorg being auto corrected to "George"
Fucking George. The bastard.
Tathanen
Get Inside Her!
Hmmmmmm. Maybe there was an hour's worth of menu manipulation or dialog in there?
I expected to be confused, but with that one moving platform I was like "oh," and everything fell into place wonderfully.
MAX PAYMENT
Member
Fire arrows?
I got confused as soon with the layout as soon as I brought up the giant pillar.
Nocturnowl
Member
I know what you mean, I try to not slow down time because as someone who still remembers most of what this game entails I like challenging myself to fit plans neatly into a 3 day cycle, maybe I'll throw it up for a dungeon just in case.
Though my last cycle plan was looking to run awry when I took longer than expected to wipe out the boss of Snowhead in the morning so I could set in motion both the Gilded Sword and Romani Ranch sidequests, with the song in play I had more than enough extra time to nab the quiver upgrades which would come in handy a few hours later at the Ranch.
Where of course I reverted time to normal.
So basically for me it's the emergency time button or dungeon support. I don't think there's any consensus though, just play in the way that makes you feel most comfortable.
Oops yeah, fire arrows
TheMoon
Member
To all of those saying you're not told about the inverted song of time ...
That's the first Bomber kid I'm talking to after the introduction cycle. The HMS tells you they got the scoop on stuff so if you don't talk to them for hints it's your own fault if you never learn about the inverted song of time^^
And Scarecrow still mentions it, too the first time to talk to him in the shop.
That's the first Bomber kid I'm talking to after the introduction cycle. The HMS tells you they got the scoop on stuff so if you don't talk to them for hints it's your own fault if you never learn about the inverted song of time^^
And Scarecrow still mentions it, too the first time to talk to him in the shop.
MAX PAYMENT
Member
Then I'm retarded.
Love fishing while the world is about to end. I think I was down to about 30 seconds that time fighting with the fish haha.
Geez, that sky is red as hell.
I'm not actually autocorrecting, I just call him George these days, because I've heard too many different pronouciations of Gyorg.
Yeah, it's damn easy. Its basically a straight line, with a little detour halfway through. Hardly difficult to work out
Stone Tower on the other hand..oh boy, getting all the stray fairies was far more difficult than I remember. And I spent a fucking stupid long time trying to work out how to get to the boss arena before realising where to go.
AzureTranquility95
Banned
Which isn't always a bad thing. Super Mario 64 DS is the definitive version content-wise, meanwhile N64 is definitive control-wise(And probaly better to speedrun as well, given Siglemic's advances)
YianGaruga
Banned
I had less trouble with Stone Tower than with Snowhead. I got Lost in Snowhead for a while since I missed a door and the pillar confused me at first since it wasn't the height that I needed, while Stone Tower was pretty straightforward.
Burning Justice
the superior princess
Go for it. I have directly compared the 3DS version with the N64 version by leaving both games running at the same time with the Inverted Song of Time active. Time clearly passes faster on the 3DS version.